Should i have to pay for repair to netbook display (still under warranty)

take everything

Hi.
Part of my netbook's display is distorted- all the pixels in a small area of the screen are blurred/scrambled.
It's still under warranty but i was still told that there is a possibility that i might have to pay for the repair (as it might be deemed accidental damage).
Now i can't see how it could be anything except a manufacturer problem since I've never dropped it or banged it. Also the screen itself is fine; It's just the display that's distorted.

Is anything to do with the screen/display automatically deemed accidental. Can anyone tell me if it's normal to have to pay for stuff like this (even when under warranty).
Thanks.

smk89

I had a similar problem with my dell screen (a large line down the screen) and they said the same thing.
Its only if they find suspect damage on the screen e.g. dropping the laptop and leaving a mark that the warranty doesn't cover it as this isn't a manufacturing problem but user caused. Something like this would indicate a blunt impact or twisting force
After all if you crashed a car you couldn't claim it was a manufacturers fault.

foggy_lad

They will examine the whole laptop and if they see any evidence of physical damage to the screen such as gouges out of the cover or scratches etc they will most likely look further and find some quality issue or other defect caused during manufacture, warning you about potential costs is usually only to cover themselves.

Some dubious repair companies use things like a standard €80 charge if your recovery partition is not intact or if you have added ram or basically changed the computer from when you purchased it regardless of the problem you report. obviously they get paid €xx for a warrenty repair by acer apple etc which should cover cost of courier to collect and return the item and if they can claw back the cost of the courier with a charge like this it is all profit to them!

smk89

I'd take photos of the computer before and after too. I've heard of companies claiming damage is present at x location by phone several days after and with no way to prove against it you either have to pay the cost or your remaining warranty is cancelled.

slimjimmc

Afaik they can't legally cancel a warranty unless it's already in the T&Cs, a warranty is also part of the sales contract. They can refuse to repair that specific fault if it's outside the terms but that doesn't mean they can refuse to repair other or later faults that are within the terms.

smk89

slimjimmc wrote: »

Afaik they can't legally cancel a warranty unless it's already in the T&Cs, a warranty is also part of the sales contract. They can refuse to repair that specific fault if it's outside the terms but that doesn't mean they can refuse to repair other or later faults that are within the terms.

Its not that hard to imagine that in the t&c's there would be clause that if you don't pay for user damage. And they certainly would have a case against repairing any damage in the future

slimjimmc

smk89 wrote: »

Its not that hard to imagine that in the t&c's there would be clause that if you don't pay for user damage. And they certainly would have a case against repairing any damage in the future

Of course user damage is exempt (it's usually stated clearly in the T&Cs) but that doesn't mean that an unrelated fault is also exempt. Say you paid for impact damage to the screen today and 3mths later the mobo fries within warranty, are you saying the warranty is null and void? It don't think that would wash in any court unless it is explicitly stated in the T&Cs that any user damage cancels the entire warranty.

beerbuddy

Many moons ago i used to work for a major Pc manafacturer. If you rang us we would state that a broken pixel is not damage as the picture is still visable. I think it was 13 pixels in a square inch and it would have been replaced.

However we used to say to the customer to take it to the place where you bought it from and they will probably accept it as a good will jesture. Nobody ever rang back ...Try this option the manafacturer of the notebook have it all covered in the warranty believe me.

subway

Laptop screens are susceptible to external pressure.
The laptop could have had something placed on top of it or received pressure while inside a bag etc.

The issue you are describing doesn't sound like a faulty screen. It sounds like a damaged screen but the company will have to prove that.
If you don't accept their opinion you will have to go the scc.

I had an issue with a tv before, the remote sensor stopped working one day. Company told me it was user damage. I didn't accept it and went to court (after a lot of back and forth and 3 months without tv) and won

take everything

subway wrote: »

If you don't accept their opinion you will have to go the scc.

I had an issue with a tv before, the remote sensor stopped working one day. Company told me it was user damage. I didn't accept it and went to court (after a lot of back and forth and 3 months without tv) and won

I will probably end up doing this because i've a strong feeling they'll come back and tell me it's user damage.

Can you briefly outline the steps involved.
Is it something like this:
1. Get the name of the owner/manager and address of the company.
I'm not sure if this will be Argos the reseller (who insist they are outside all this) or say the CEO of Acer the manufacturer. :P I'd imagine it'd be pretty tricky going after Acer whose nearest base is in England IIRC.
2. Print off the SCC form from the website and put in these details.
3. Post a cheque with the form to the district court.
Something like that?

ShooterSF

Just on the point I know for certain; it will be Argos (who you have the contract with) that you will have to bring to court.

take everything

ShooterSF wrote: »

Just on the point I know for certain; it will be Argos (who you have the contract with) that you will have to bring to court.

Thanks.
Argos were fairly firm with their "nothin' to do wiv' us, guv" routine all the same.
I guess there's no harm in action against them initially and they can pass the buck/sort it out between themselves when the time comes.

Antigone05

Would love to see the screen though.Chance of a pic?

Usually, if there is any inclination of physical damage to a laptop/netbook screen, its 99.9% correct.

take everything

Just an update on this.
I'm dealing with Argos.

They sent it off for repair and are claiming it's user damage.
I was expecting them to come back with a rigorous engineer report as evidence for their claim.
Nothing of the sort it seems- it came back with a 2 line letter "this is accidental damage". Is this acceptable?

Also, they damaged it further. The distorted area used to be the size of a golfball; now it takes up half the screen (so now it's unusable).
They just stood around like monkeys saying they couldn't help me.

Not exactly sure where to turn now.
I tried to get information from them about the manager of the store, Irish Head Office etc.
-They wouldn't give me the surname of the store manager (WTF was that about?).
-They wouldn't/couldn't give me an email for either their store manager or head office.
-They seemed either clueless or unwilling to divulge information about an Irish Head Office (they gave me information on a Dublin distribution centre instead).
-They gave me info on UK head office and CS (Not ideal and I'm not sure how a UK presence affects a small claims procedure. Can anyone shed light on this?)

subway wrote: »

It sounds like a damaged screen but the company will have to prove that.
If you don't accept their opinion you will have to go the scc.

All they supplied was a two line letter "this is accidental damage". No evidence to support it.

I'd appreciate anyone's help on this (even if it's just more info on an Irish Argos head office/email etc).
Thanks.

Edit:
BTW there are many threads online about faulty Acer Aspire One netbooks (my netbook is an aspire one d260a).
http://www.netbookchoice.com/2009/05/06/acer-aspire-one-751-reviewed-%E2%80%93-beauty-only-skin-deep/
http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/forums/1/helproom/351316/acer-aspire-faulty-screen/

jor el

Do you have photos of the on screen distortion from before you sent it away? If yes, then you can prove that their inspection process has made it worse, and I would proceed with a Small Claims Court case for the value of the laptop.

take everything

jor el wrote: »

Do you have photos of the on screen distortion from before you sent it away? If yes, then you can prove that their inspection process has made it worse, and I would proceed with a Small Claims Court case for the value of the laptop.

Unfortunately i never took a photo of it (i'm an idiot).
I did show the original golfball-sized defect to the sales assistant and she acknowledged this at the time before they sent it off.
She wasn't around the last day when it came back- she's back next week.
Hopefully she's someway trustworthy.

take everything

jor el wrote: »

Do you have photos of the on screen distortion from before you sent it away? If yes, then you can prove that their inspection process has made it worse, and I would proceed with a Small Claims Court case for the value of the laptop.

Hi Jor El.
Any idea if an SCC procedure can be taken against the store or does it have to be head office.
It's just Argos Head office may indeed be in the UK. How does a UK presence affect the SCC procedure do you know?
Thanks.

Boggles

take everything wrote: »

Hi Jor El.
Any idea if an SCC procedure can be taken against the store or does it have to be head office.
It's just Argos Head office may indeed be in the UK. How does a UK presence affect the SCC procedure do you know?
Thanks.

That would be a european scc procedure, your better off staying within the state.

The procedure is, carefully make notes of your grievances and jot down details of what happened. Form them into a letter, clear and politely but be firm in you would like redress on this matter immediately. Qoute the merchantable quality line from the goods and services act, mention you want a reply within 10 working days or you will be forced to take the matter to the SCC.

Register the letter and keep a copy, also make copies of all correspondence you have had over the issue, keep copies of everything for yourself. Include all correspondence you have had and importantly a copy of the receipt.

No reason you should have to go sending letters to some office in the UK, the store operates in this state so has to abide by consumer law. Address the letter to The Manager of the Store, he may not respond, but he will certainly respond to the Smalls Claims Clerk, or they will be rule against and forced to give redress.

Good Luck.

Edit: Your 100% sure no one else had access to it or it didn't get a drunken bump or anything like that you can't remember?

subway

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/courts_system/small_claims_court.html

Respondent
This section is for the details of the person or company you are making the claim against. You must make the claim against a person or a company. Often you may not know who owns the shop you bought the faulty goods from. It is not enough to just put the name of the shop on the application form. You must investigate who owns the shop.

You can do this by making a Companies Search in the Companies Registration Office. Here you will find a register of all the companies in the country. If the shop is not registered as a company, try a Business Name Search, also in the Companies Registration Office. If the respondent resides outside of Ireland, you should ask them to nominate, in writing, someone in this country (usually their agent or solicitor) to accept proceedings on their behalf.

http://www.cro.ie/search/CompanyDetails.aspx?id=43174&type=C

Name ARGOS DISTRIBUTORS (IRELAND) LIMITED
Address Unit C1
Gulliver's Retail Park
Ballymun Road, Santry
Dublin 9
Registered 08/08/1973
Status Normal

Antigone05

although Argos don't seem to be handling this very well, i still think its user damage.

a screen cannot break by itself.

subway

It does sound strange but it's not impossible
http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100825013542AARa7cX

A poorly designed chassis could easily cause flex in the lid for example

take everything

Antigone05 wrote: »

although Argos don't seem to be handling this very well, i still think its user damage.

a screen cannot break by itself.

Hi.
These people with Acer Aspire One series netbooks have had similar experiences to me (ie treated their netbooks perfectly, opened it up one day and find a screen defect out of the blue).
http://www.netbookchoice.com/2009/05/06/acer-aspire-one-751-reviewed-%E2%80%93-beauty-only-skin-deep/
http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/forums/1/helproom/351316/acer-aspire-faulty-screen/
Plenty of other examples as well.
I was shocked by it because i treated mine perfectly and nothing like this ever happened with 3 previous laptops i've had.

BTW, anyone know what an engineer's report should say. I got back a piece of paper with 2 lines on it saying "not covered due to accidental damage". Does that constitute an engineer's report. I thought it would be a rigorous report not some bare statement seemingly plucked from nowhere.

Antigone05

I would be weary of using Internet forums to show a issue with a product. There is no proof attached to say that the netbooks were treated with care, just people's word.

If I were you I would get a independent report that can show it's defect and go from there.

Id still put it down to damage though, from the lid being opened in a constant, incorrect way,or something inside it when being closed.

take everything

I would be weary of using Internet forums to show a issue with a product. There is no proof attached to say that the netbooks were treated with care, just people's word.

There is a hell of a lot of stuff out there on Acer Aspire Ones all the same.
Exact same complaint every time.

If I were you I would get a independent report that can show it's defect and go from there.

I was thinking of this.
Couple of things with that though:
I couldn't even get confirmation from Argos that they would reimburse me for same in the case of such a report saying it's a manufacturer fault. Dunno if a SCC would mandate such reimbursement either tbh.
I was informed by an independent repairer that even though it can be difficult to actually show user-damage, they can still say it's user damage if it's an inconclusive report.

I'm actually more interested now in the extra damage they did. They're responsible for this anyway. Just unfortunate i may have to rely on their trustworthiness to have this acknowledged (because stupidly i never took a photo of the original damage).

Id still put it down to damage though, from the lid being opened in a constant, incorrect way,or something inside it when being closed.

Definitely never something inside it while being closed.
Open it from the centre typically. Can't imagine too many ways of opening it incorrectly tbh. IIRC, they don't tell you how to open the netbook in the manual. I'd imagine this is because it'd be largely trivial.

At this stage, i'm half-thinking of avoiding further hassle with them and buy a screen off ebay and fit it myself. It's about 60% cheaper than what Argos are asking.

subway

An engineers report will tell you the current situation, it will probably never tell you what caused it.
A very experienced engineer will give you a hypothetical. That hypothetical will be user damage.

You are better off just building your case and sending a formal complaint to Argos hed office with a time limit. If they don't get back go to scc and sign the affidavit saying you know it wasnt caused by user damage and presenting your case

ejmaztec

I see that back in 2009, some contributors on this page were pushing for a class-action suit in the US as a result cracked screen problems on the same Acer model. I haven't a clue whether any lawyers took it on, but it's a good bit of ammunition nonetheless.

http://netbookmag.com/2008/07/05/acer-aspire-one-hands-on/

take everything

ejmaztec wrote: »

I see that back in 2009, some contributors on this page were pushing for a class-action suit in the US as a result cracked screen problems on the same Acer model. I haven't a clue whether any lawyers took it on, but it's a good bit of ammunition nonetheless.

http://netbookmag.com/2008/07/05/acer-aspire-one-hands-on/

Yeah i saw that as well.
Thanks.
That's what makes it so infuriating that screen damage is, invariably, obtusely and reflexively deemed user damage.

ejmaztec

take everything wrote: »

Yeah i saw that as well.
Thanks.
That's what makes it so infuriating that screen damage is, invariably, obtusely and reflexively deemed user damage.

The problem with class action suits, apart from the fact they don't exist in Ireland, is that it takes a long time for the manufacturer to own up, and an even longer time for people outside the US to get the same deal as the US customers.

Acer must surely be waiting for some action to kick off, and I'm surprised that the lawyers haven't gotten involved already.

I'd probably explain these universal problems to Argos, and if they didnt co-operate, I'd threaten them with a small-claims court-case.

take everything

ejmaztec wrote: »

I'd probably explain these universal problems to Argos, and if they didnt co-operate, I'd threaten them with a small-claims court-case.

Have done, and will do formally to management.
They don't seem too moved so far.

I can get these screens on ebay for 55 quid (all in), and fit them myself so i'm tempted to write it off to experience if i keep on getting resistance from them.

Other options are (as you say):
-Paying 18 euro and having the hassle of the SCC and another (unreimbursed even if proven fault?) 75 euro for an independent engineer's report which as i say if inconclusive, apparently, defaults to "user damage".
-Paying 18 euro, doing the SCC but not getting an independent engineer's report, instead concentrating on the extra damage Argos did to make it unusable (that depends on 2 sales assistants not lying (perjuring themselves? :pac:) by denying any difference in damage).

Ideally, unless Argos charge me less than 55 euro, and admit it's not user damage (the pragmatic solution), for the sake off 55 euro i may just write the thing off (ensuring i take photos of stuff before submitting it in future).

take everything

Just an update on this:
Argos are trying to minimise the further damage caused by them now.
They're also saying that any further damage while in their care isn't "user damage" by them (yet the original defect is still "user damage").
As long as the narrative suits them i suppose. :rolleyes:

take everything

Just to update:
Argos actually offered a replacement or refund after talking to the manager.
So fair enough.

ShooterSF

Congrats! Thanks for the update.