It's PanDENmonium! [Off Topic Chat]

wnolan1992

_meehan_ wrote: »

My brother's autistic:pac:

Kinda wish I hadn't made a joke about it now.... :P

JamJamJamJam wrote: »

This is turning into Name the Famous Person's Problem :P

Hitler is suspected to have Parkinson's disease.


And an absolute crap-tonne of famous people have ADHD and/or dyslexia. I'm almost certain Jimmy Carr has something, but can't think of what is is...

SarahBeep!

Eathrin wrote: »

I really don't know much about autism.
Something to do with lack of interest in social situations and fixations on specific items?

Kind of, the way it was explained to me when I was young is its like someone is locked into their own little world.
Meehan can probably explain it better than I can.

Jhcx

Sitting in the mid western regional and I can't help smile. Not smiling cause I'm here but cause its limerick. Doradoyle is a nice area....

Lawliet

JamJamJamJam wrote: »

I know that a lot of people with particular disorders or learning difficulties turn out to be super gifted at certain things, like maths or whatever.

I think it's the other way round; a lot of people who are very gifted happen to have disorders. A lot of people talk like the disorder, LD or whatever, is what causes these people to be brilliant, like if you're really bad in one area it's going to balance out so you're really good in another. But really these people are exceptional because they're brilliant despite their disorder. For every one maths genius dyslexic there's probably a thousand others like me who need a calculator for every bit of addition!

Davidius

I think this 'Dev was autistic' stuff is going to become popular history soon. Based on what I know of the man I remain sceptical of such a thing.

Salty

Eathrin wrote: »

I really don't know much about autism.
Something to do with lack of interest in social situations and fixations on specific items?

It's very broad with a huge variety of symptoms. I wouldn't say they have a lack of interest in social situations, more like they haven't the ability to cope in social situations. Problems with language, interpreting people's emotions, lack of co-ordination, lack of complex thinking (links into the language thing, they take things literally and find it hard to understand idioms etc).

They will often act irrationally, like blowing air through their lips, hitting things etc. This is because they are very tactile sensitive. My own brother refuses to wear anything but tracksuits and jerseys because he finds everything else uncomfortable.

I think part of the reason for a particular gift some of them show in maths/physics is because they lack so much in other critical areas, like language and basic socialising.

They all require speech & language therapy, and occupational therapy too.

I could go on and on, it varies so much!

@wnolan, I couldn't resist seeing as you had put your foot in it!:p

JamJamJamJam

Lawliet wrote: »

JamJamJamJam wrote: »

I know that a lot of people with particular disorders or learning difficulties turn out to be super gifted at certain things, like maths or whatever.

I think it's the other way round; a lot of people who are very gifted happen to have disorders. A lot of people talk like the disorder, LD or whatever, is what causes these people to be brilliant, like if you're really bad in one area it's going to balance out so you're really good in another. But really these people are exceptional because they're brilliant despite their disorder. For every one maths genius dyslexic there's probably a thousand others like me who need a calculator for every bit of addition!

.. Good point. Maybe that makes more sense actually. I always thought it was something to do with the person thinking differently and seeing problems differently, but thinking about it again, maybe not. Not in the vast majority of the cases anyway. It is sort of a nice idea, as though it's a consolation for people with certain difficulties, and it does seem like there's some link when we can list so many brilliant people with disorders. But even between all the different disorders, we could probably list 100 times that in people with no signs of anything. And I also think I may have been mislead by The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Nighttime...!

Davidius

There's so many socially awkward folk kicking around on the internet who self-diagnose themselves with Asperger's syndrome just because they think it gives them ultra-intelligence powers. It's also a pretty handy way for them to dismiss the idea that they're to blame for their social inadequacies. Actually a lot of people seem to want to have a disorder which is mind boggling.

Eathrin

Davidius wrote: »

There's so many socially awkward folk kicking around on the internet who self-diagnose themselves with Asperger's syndrome just because they think it gives them ultra-intelligence powers. It's also a pretty handy way for them to dismiss the idea that they're to blame for their social inadequacies. Actually a lot of people seem to want to have a disorder which is mind boggling.

After Meehan and Lawliet's explanations I think it's akin to folk wanting to dive in toxic waste in the hope of superpowers. :pac:

My initial thoughts were that an autistic person could be successful as they are not distracted by other things and work hard in their area of superior intelligence. That was probably wrong of me to assume every autistic person is genius in something.

@Meehan: Does your brother show particular aptitude for anything?

KamiKazeKitten

Eathrin wrote: »

After Meehan and Lawliet's explanations I think it's akin to folk wanting to dive in toxic waste in the hope of superpowers. :pac:

My initial thoughts were that an autistic person could be successful as they are not distracted by other things and work hard in their area of superior intelligence. That was probably wrong of me to assume every autistic person is genius in something.

@Meehan: Does your brother show particular aptitude for anything?

I'm not meehan, but my brother has Aspergers, so Ima dive in and answer too :P

My own brother doesn't have any particular aptitude for any school subjects, but if you want to know anything at all about planes or WW2, he's the man to ask! I know other kids who know everything there is to know about dogs, Thomas the Tank, ships...the list goes on.

I think that ability to focus in on something so much (some people call it an obsession) is what makes some people with autism so successful in certain fields. But it's not really a one size fits all disorder, kids behave in all sorts of different ways and can be anywhere on the spectrum.

There are also a lot more people being diagnosed as on the autism spectrum, but I'd put that down to autism being more recognised these days, it's still very 'new' and a lot of research is being done now. Although I do think many people are self diagnosing too, can't understand why.

Lawliet

KamiKazeKitten wrote: »

Although I do think many people are self diagnosing too, can't understand why.

Self diagnosing can be useful sometimes, it can be frustrating waiting for parents, teachers, or doctors to take notice of symptoms that you know you display, especially when it's a disorder that isn't taken seriously by older generations. The problems start when the person isn't being honest or objective with themselves, or when they know there's nothing wrong with them and they just want to be a special snowflake.

KamiKazeKitten

Lawliet wrote: »

Self diagnosing can be useful sometimes, it can be frustrating waiting for parents, teachers, or doctors to take notice of symptoms that you know you display, especially when it's a disorder that isn't taken seriously by older generations. The problems start when the person isn't being honest or objective with themselves, or when they know there's nothing wrong with them and they just want to be a special snowflake.

Oh I know there are cases of that but I think there are some people out there who almost want it to feel individual - but I agree getting officially diagnosed can be very frustrating and take years! My worry would be that those who do have Aspergers/autism then don't get the supports (which are hard to get anyway), that they would be entitled to with an official diagnosis.

I think Aspergers especially can be quite hard to diagnose as it's not as visible (if that's the right word) as some other disorders - with my own brother I know many people wouldn't realise he has Aspergers as he's very high functioning and in public especially can seem very normal (I hate using that phrase but you know what I mean!). But that's after years of speech therapy, occupational therapy, SNAs, one to one teaching - you name it. And they were all very hard to get for him, probably almost impossible without a diagnosis. (I'd be very happy to be wrong about that )

wnolan1992

I think some self-diagnosis is rooted in wanting to feel special.

I know people who've self-diagnosed all sorts of crap just because they thought it was niche. Kinda like hipsters who are hipsters for the sake of being hipsters.

Asperger's seems to be the new "in" condition among this group, and I'd wager most of them have no idea what the condition actually entails.

Also, it's an easy way to explain away any odd habit you may have to just say "Oh, I'm a tad-X.", which just shuts down the conversation as opposed to further questioning as to why you do what you do.

I know I've used the phrase "I'm a tad-OCD about having things clean." rather than confront people for being slovenly pigs who like to leave stuff lying on the counter for weeks instead of washing the damn things. :mad:

I know that I am nowhere near OCD level, but it just seems like an easier way to explain it.

flyswatter

And of course the overdiagnosed condition of all overdiagnosed conditions, ADHD. Referring to kids mainly.

Hairycopper

I'm going into 6th year tomorrow. I done NOTHING in 5th year, this year is going to be hell and only person to blame is myself. Can't wait for routine again though!

KamiKazeKitten

Hairycopper wrote: »

I'm going into 6th year tomorrow. I done NOTHING in 5th year, this year is going to be hell and only person to blame is myself. Can't wait for routine again though!

This might make me sound like Dr Phil, but what the hell - don't blame yourself for what you or didn't do last year, get studying hard this year and believe me it'll pay off!

6th year wasn't so bad really - yeah, there is that tiny little thing called the Leaving Cert to do but at the same time I had great fun with my mates. Glad I'm in college now but it wasn't all bad!

Hairycopper

KamiKazeKitten wrote: »

This might make me sound like Dr Phil, but what the hell - don't blame yourself for what you or didn't do last year, get studying hard this year and believe me it'll pay off!

6th year wasn't so bad really - yeah, there is that tiny little thing called the Leaving Cert to do but at the same time I had great fun with my mates. Glad I'm in college now but it wasn't all bad!

I did shockingly bad in my summer exams( my nan had passed away before so i was in no mind set to do them, shouldn't use excuses but y'know) and really dreading getting them back from the teachers.

I am determined to do as well as i can this year and to just get on with study and school work, hopefully it will pay off in August.

Namlub

Yeah my social life was probably better during sixth year than it was this summer...bit backward.


In other news, I got into Trinity Hall and am now convinced that something terrible must happen to balance out all the awesome things that have happened to me in the past few weeks...

Lawliet

Hairycopper wrote: »

I'm going into 6th year tomorrow. I done NOTHING in 5th year, this year is going to be hell and only person to blame is myself. Can't wait for routine again though!

Don't worry about it, a lot of people do nothing in fifth year. It's the ones who continue to do nothing in sixth year that do badly. Just work hard from here on out and you'll be fine

Salty

Eathrin wrote: »

@Meehan: Does your brother show particular aptitude for anything?

Like KamiKazeKitten's brother, if you ask him anything to do with the subjects he's interested in (trains, WW2, Star Wars in his case!:p) he could answer it no problem. Due to extensive speech & language therapy, and hours upon hours of one-to-one teaching/learning both in school and at home, his language skills have improved hugely, so you could have a near-normal conversation with him and not realise. Although it doesn't take long for him to just start rambling about the above subjects as they are what he is most interested in. He's mild, so we're very lucky.

KamiKazeKitten wrote: »

Oh I know there are cases of that but I think there are some people out there who almost want it to feel individual - but I agree getting officially diagnosed can be very frustrating and take years! My worry would be that those who do have Aspergers/autism then don't get the supports (which are hard to get anyway), that they would be entitled to with an official diagnosis.

I think Aspergers especially can be quite hard to diagnose as it's not as visible (if that's the right word) as some other disorders - with my own brother I know many people wouldn't realise he has Aspergers as he's very high functioning and in public especially can seem very normal (I hate using that phrase but you know what I mean!). But that's after years of speech therapy, occupational therapy, SNAs, one to one teaching - you name it. And they were all very hard to get for him, probably almost impossible without a diagnosis. (I'd be very happy to be wrong about that )

My mum is an SNA in a specialised autism unit, and she was telling me that the term "aspergers" is being phased out and replaced with "high-functioning autism" as (weirdly enough) people including parents of children with the disorder see it as being "above" autism and means their child is more gifed/intelligent than other kids, even though the vast majority of them are of average IQ like the rest of them. Ultimately, they're all just placed on different points of the spectrum, and such "elitism" shouldn't creep into it. Can you imagine it?:rolleyes: As if things aren't difficult enough as it is! Your brother sounds very like mine actually!:P

KamiKazeKitten

_meehan_ wrote: »

My mum is an SNA in a specialised autism unit, and she was telling me that the term "aspergers" is being phased out and replaced with "high-functioning autism" as (weirdly enough) people including parents of children with the disorder see it as being "above" autism and means their child is more gifed/intelligent than other kids, even though the vast majority of them are of average IQ like the rest of them. Ultimately, they're all just placed on different points of the spectrum, and such "elitism" shouldn't creep into it. Can you imagine it?:rolleyes: As if things aren't difficult enough as it is! Your brother sounds very like mine actually!:P

Oh I've heard that phrase used a few times actually! Don't think my brother really cares either way, he tells it like it is (and gets into great rows in Starbucks insisting 'I just want a coffee, not a venti caramel mochachino thing, I want a coffee!' Poor staff get very flustered. )
But like your brother it's taken a lot to get him to this point, poor kid has dyspraxia so his balance is all off, along with everything else. I don't think people would realise either.

Elitism though? In special needs? Christ, some people will do anything to feel superior.

They do sound very alike actually, don't they? Just think of the chats they could have about WW2. :P

wnolan1992

KamiKazeKitten wrote: »

Elitism though? In special needs? Christ, some people will do anything to feel superior.

Just in my opinion, I don't think it has as much to do with "feeling superior" as it does with just trying to come to terms with the condition your kid has, so as not be overwhelmed by it.
Parents may feel more capable to cope with Aspergers than autism for example.

Or maybe I'm just trying to see the good in people... :P

KamiKazeKitten

wnolan1992 wrote: »

Just in my opinion, I don't think it has as much to do with "feeling superior" as it does with just trying to come to terms with the condition your kid has, so as not be overwhelmed by it.
Parents may feel more capable to cope with Aspergers than autism for example.

Or maybe I'm just trying to see the good in people... :P

I think maybe I'm just a cynic, I dunno. :P

On my last teaching practice there was a little girl who I think had some sort of special need in the class (couldn't focus or sit still at all, very hard to keep her working but very sweet), but apparently the teacher had talked to the parents about getting her assessed, but they wouldn't hear of it. Didn't want to think about it apparently.
I understand it's scary for them, but that poor kid needed some supports.

Togepi

@KamilKazeKitten and _meehan_

Was it difficult to get speech therapy for your brothers or was it just there if you wanted it? My brother is a good bit older than me, and has special needs, but I don't think there was too much speech therapy when he was younger. His speech is improving lately though. Just curious to see what support is like now, it probably varies.

wnolan1992

KamiKazeKitten wrote: »

I think maybe I'm just a cynic, I dunno. :P

On my last teaching practice there was a little girl who I think had some sort of special need in the class (couldn't focus or sit still at all, very hard to keep her working but very sweet), but apparently the teacher had talked to the parents about getting her assessed, but they wouldn't hear of it. Didn't want to think about it apparently.
I understand it's scary for them, but that poor kid needed some supports.

I think the ultimate fear on the part of the parents is that if they send the child for assessment, they will find out that something is wrong. Then there's the fear that once the diagnosis is made, the school the child is currently in might try and coerce the parents into sending the child off to specialised schools, regardless of whether that's what's best for the child.

From what I can gather from my parents, when I was about to start NS, the principal of the school was trying to convince them that I would never cope in mainstream schooling, and that it would have been better for me if I was sent to St. Joseph's from day one. And if my Dad hadn't been so stubborn I probably would have.

Now, I'm not knocking these schools, I know people who've gone to them and have got on great there, but they're not for everyone.
And I'm also not defending the parents for not getting the assessment, it's just I can kinda see why they want to prolong it as long as possible.

Salty

KamiKazeKitten wrote: »

Oh I've heard that phrase used a few times actually! Don't think my brother really cares either way, he tells it like it is (and gets into great rows in Starbucks insisting 'I just want a coffee, not a venti caramel mochachino thing, I want a coffee!' Poor staff get very flustered. )
But like your brother it's taken a lot to get him to this point, poor kid has dyspraxia so his balance is all off, along with everything else. I don't think people would realise either.

Elitism though? In special needs? Christ, some people will do anything to feel superior.

They do sound very alike actually, don't they? Just think of the chats they could have about WW2. :P

Hahaha I love that thing with the Starbucks! He very literally just wants coffee, staff wouldn't get it at all! I'm sure they'd be great buddies, common interests!:P

KamiKazeKitten wrote: »

I understand it's scary for them, but that poor kid needed some supports.

I get how it's a huge thing, and that people have to grieve to an extent, but the earlier the child gets intervention, the more normal (hate using that word) a life they can all lead! Delaying it allows everything to spin out of control. Sad really.:(

KamiKazeKitten

Togepi wrote: »

@KamilKazeKitten and _meehan_

Was it difficult to get speech therapy for your brothers or was it just there if you wanted it? My brother is a good bit older than me, and has special needs, but I don't think there was too much speech therapy when he was younger. His speech is improving lately though. Just curious to see what support is like now, it probably varies.

My brother was diagnosed when he was about 3 I think (I was about 7, so a lot of this went right over my head!)

It was difficult to get a lot of supports for him - he was actually meant to start Junior Infants in a mainstream school but the government were only offering about 2/3 of the pay the other SNAs in the school were getting,so they couldn't get anyone. He went into a special needs class with one teacher for 8 children, who was run off her feet trying to keep control, and regressed a bit until he was taken somewhere else.

I think speech therapy was one of the easier things to get, there was a good clinic near us, but I'm in Dublin, maybe it's different around the country?

wnolan1992 wrote: »

I think the ultimate fear on the part of the parents is that if they send the child for assessment, they will find out that something is wrong. Then there's the fear that once the diagnosis is made, the school the child is currently in might try and coerce the parents into sending the child off to specialised schools, regardless of whether that's what's best for the child.
.

Oh I know and I understand that, it's a tough decision to make. Your dad sounds like my mam actually, doesn't take **** :P
This was a little bit different...very unfocused but if you had someone beside her to keep her working she was able to do the work. Problem is, a teacher can't spend all her time with one child in a whole class, and if they leave it she'll fall further behind.

_meehan_ wrote: »

Hahaha I love that thing with the Starbucks! He very literally just wants coffee, staff wouldn't get it at all! I'm sure they'd be great buddies, common interests!:P

They get so confused, the poor things!

And don't get me started on ordering food....
Him: "Oh, a cheeseburger"
me: "With all the extra stuff" (cos he's picky!)
"yeah, sure"
Burger comes to the table "Oh I don't want onions". So very nice waitress goes and takes the onions off.
"Oh no tomatoes thanks!" She takes the tomatoes off and comes back.
"I don't want pickle..."
me: *lists all the stuff on the burger* "Do you want any of it?"
Him: "No."

:pac:


He also refused to eat sour cream because of the name for years...until I snuck it into a pasta thing and told him after he'd eaten it.
He likes sour cream now. :P

Canard

Namlub wrote: »

Yeah my social life was probably better during sixth year than it was this summer...bit backward.


In other news, I got into Trinity Hall and am now convinced that something terrible must happen to balance out all the awesome things that have happened to me in the past few weeks...

Did Benji linking the video of results day not count as something terrible happening to you? :P Kidding, kidding. :P

Namlub

Patchy~ wrote: »

Did Benji linking the video of results day not count as something terrible happening to you? :P Kidding, kidding. :P

There is no video :mad::mad:

Salty

Togepi wrote: »

@KamilKazeKitten and _meehan_

Was it difficult to get speech therapy for your brothers or was it just there if you wanted it? My brother is a good bit older than me, and has special needs, but I don't think there was too much speech therapy when he was younger. His speech is improving lately though. Just curious to see what support is like now, it probably varies.

My brother got it through the COPE Foundation here in Cork. Same for the occupational therapy. I'm not sure how my parents went about organising it though, tbh. You can also go private, but it's very costly!