Speeding on a horse - what is the offence

Victor

If Mick rides his horse at 60km/h (its a good horse) down the busy main street, he'll get done for what I believe is "furious riding".

If Mick rides his horse at 60km/h (its a good horse) down an urban road (speed limit 50km/h) at midnight, what can he be charged with?

coylemj

I didn't check the subsequent acts for amendments but in the RTA 1961, S.47 (Exceeding speed limits) mentions a 'mechanically propelled vehicle' so you can't be done for that. S.53 (Dangerous Driving) talks about driving 'a vehicle' which presumably could include a horse-drawn cart but not a horse by itself.

Looks like if the rider is sober and the horse isn't pulling a cart you're free to ride at any speed you like!

MagicSean

Endangering traffic?

coylemj

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

Endangering traffic?

Contrary to Section what of which Act?

johnnyskeleton

Victor wrote: »

he'll get done for what I believe is "furious riding".

Tee hee.

Victor wrote: »

If Mick rides his horse at 60km/h (its a good horse) down an urban road (speed limit 50km/h) at midnight, what can he be charged with?

Oncoming traffic or the Burgermaster's Dragoons, depending on the century of course.

dermot_sheehan

I think theres a section of the police town clauses act thats still in force that covers furious riding

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Victor wrote: »

he'll get done for what I believe is "furious riding".

Tee hee.

Victor wrote: »

If Mick rides his horse at 60km/h (its a good horse) down an urban road (speed limit 50km/h) at midnight, what can he be charged with?

Oncoming traffic or the Burgermaster's Dragoons, depending on the century of course.

dermot_sheehan

Yep, s. 28 police town clauses act 1847 furiously riding a horse or horse and carriage, Class E fine and or 14 days custody

dermot_sheehan wrote: »

I think theres a section of the police town clauses act thats still in force that covers furious riding

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Victor wrote: »

he'll get done for what I believe is "furious riding".

Tee hee.

Victor wrote: »

If Mick rides his horse at 60km/h (its a good horse) down an urban road (speed limit 50km/h) at midnight, what can he be charged with?

Oncoming traffic or the Burgermaster's Dragoons, depending on the century of course.

MagicSean

coylemj wrote: »

Contrary to Section what of which Act?

I was thinking of Section 98 of the RTA

98.—(1) A person shall not do any act (whether of commission or omission) which causes or is likely to cause traffic through any public place to be obstructed.


(2) A person who contravenes subsection (1) of this section shall be guilty of an offence.


(3) Where a person is charged with an offence under this section, it shall be a good defence to the charge for him to show that there was lawful authority for the act complained of or that it was due to unavoidable accident.

coylemj

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

I was thinking of Section 98 of the RTA

98.—(1) A person shall not do any act (whether of commission or omission) which causes or is likely to cause traffic through any public place to be obstructed.


(2) A person who contravenes subsection (1) of this section shall be guilty of an offence.


(3) Where a person is charged with an offence under this section, it shall be a good defence to the charge for him to show that there was lawful authority for the act complained of or that it was due to unavoidable accident.

You said 'endangering' traffic, obstruction is a completely different issue. How could a horse travelling at 60 kph obstruct traffic?

Reloc8

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Oncoming traffic or the Burgermaster's Dragoons, depending on the century of course.

That really was very good.

MagicSean

coylemj wrote: »

You said 'endangering' traffic, obstruction is a completely different issue. How could a horse travelling at 60 kph obstruct traffic?

If he is on the wrong side of the road. I'm thinking along the lines of the pikey races on the national roads.

I originally said endangering traffic but when I looked up the offence it didn't really fit so I went with the more appropriate obstruction offence. Is that ok with you?

dewdrop

whether a horse endangers or obstructs traffic i know it might cause me a heart attack if i saw such an animal coming towards me at speed. Many people have died in such incidents.

coylemj

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

I originally said endangering traffic but when I looked up the offence it didn't really fit so I went with the more appropriate obstruction offence. Is that ok with you?

No, you said 'endangering traffic', then when you 'looked it up' you discovered that there is no such offence.

aacs

dermot_sheehan wrote: »

Yep, s. 28 police town clauses act 1847 furiously riding a horse or horse and carriage, Class E fine and or 14 days custody

You are right. It most probably put the riding person behind the bars considering the horse riding speed 60km/h will not leave anyone without horse crushing anyone to almost death in the situation of accident.

MagicSean

coylemj wrote: »

No, you said 'endangering traffic', then when you 'looked it up' you discovered that there is no such offence.

Section 14 of the Non-fatal Offences Against the Person Act - Endangering Traffic

14.—(1) A person shall be guilty of an offence who—


(a) intentionally places or throws any dangerous obstruction upon a railway, road, street, waterway or public place or interferes with any machinery, signal, equipment or other device for the direction, control or regulation of traffic thereon, or interferes with or throws anything at or on any conveyance used or to be used thereon, and


(b) is aware that injury to the person or damage to property may be caused thereby, or is reckless in that regard.


(2) In this section—


“conveyance” means any conveyance constructed or adapted for the carriage of a person or persons or of goods by land or water;


“railway” means a railway, a tramway, or a light railway or any part of a railway, tramway or light railway;


“waterway” means any route upon water used by any conveyance.


(3) A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable—


(a) on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £1,500 or to S.14 imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or to both, or


(b) on conviction on indictment to a fine or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 7 years or to both.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0026/sec0014.html#sec14

Like I said, it didn't fit the ops scenario.

coylemj

Apologies, I wasn't aware of that offence, I knew it didn't exist under the RTA. My mistake.

MagicSean

coylemj wrote: »

Apologies, I wasn't aware of that offence, I knew it didn't exist under the RTA. My mistake.

Apology accepted.

It is an odd Act for it to be under. You would think RTA or even Public Order. But it follows on from the more general offence of Endangerment so that's why it's included in Non-fatal Offences.

Carawaystick

What about running at more than 30 in a 30 zone?