Ammendment to Private Security Act 2004

Jnealon

Haven't had a chance to read it in full but it looks like they've closed some of the loop holes.
One being that you need a license to repair an alarm system
Link

fred funk }{

I think this ammendment covers the loop hole.

6.—Section 2(1) of the Act of 2004 is amended—
(a) by the substitution of the following for the definition of
“installer of security equipment”:
“ ‘installer of security equipment’ means a person who—
(a) in the course of a business, trade or profession,
installs, maintains, repairs or services electronic or other devices designed, constructed
or adapted to give warning of, or monitor or
record unauthorised entry or misconduct on or
in the vicinity of premises,
(b) in the course of a business, trade or profession,
installs, maintains, repairs or services electronic or other devices designed, constructed
or adapted to control or record access by persons or vehicles to or within premises by
means of—
(i) personal identity verification, including by
means of biometrics,
(ii) vehicle identification,

KoolKid

Yup!
Here comes Access Control.
And we havn't got CCTV sorted yet.

Jnealon

I've been told that the cctv will be in by year end but I was also told that last year.
Anyway I have lined up my EN50132 for October/November

KoolKid

I'm waiting to see who I get for inspections. Georgie has retired.
Must have been all the hassles with the hot press...;)
Actually , thinking of changing certification bodies anyway.

fred funk }{

Does anyone know what the cost of the CCTV licence is going to be? I can't see them not charging for it and I wonder what the certification bodies will charge as well, as it will be another day of inspections.

On a side note, it will be extremely difficult to police it, they can't even police the intruder side if things never mind CCTV.

altor

fred funk }{ wrote: »

On a side note, it will be extremely difficult to police it, they can't even police the intruder side if things never mind CCTV.

I agree, even if you hand it on a plate to them they say we investigated that and everything checked out. It is easy to see with all the blank bell boxes how many systems have being upgraded and new installs around the country but with other forms of security I think they have there hands full. I also notice from reading the amendment that they can now employ people outside of the PSA to investigated, might be a good line of business to get into

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

I'm waiting to see who I get for inspections. Georgie has retired.
Must have been all the hassles with the hot press...;)
Actually , thinking of changing certification bodies anyway.

And the powermax issue. He might have had it handier if he knew the rules

KoolKid

altor wrote: »

I also notice from reading the amendment that they can now employ people outside of the PSA to investigated, might be a good line of business to get into

There was something about their limitations. I don't think for example they can call up mr nixer & ask for an alarm to be installed. Thats entrapment.
Perhaps using 3rd parties , like PIs etc may be a line they are going to take if needed.

altor

I was thinking more along the lines of them employing some people to investigate reports of alarms being installed by non registered installers. They might do a better job if there is a brown envelope involved

fred funk }{

The CCTV DIY market is huge as well so there will be loads of self installs out there, more than intruder I'd guess so detection will be extremely difficult.

Another thing, how will someone tell by looking at a CCTV system if it was installed by a licensed company?

KoolKid

I enquired about a report I sent a while back, I basically got the reply we're looking into it, if theres anything further we'll let you know.

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

I enquired about a report I sent a while back, I basically got the reply we're looking into it, if theres anything further we'll let you know.

I suppose its like the installer who installed an alarm in his sisters and gave them her number and all the details. They never contacted her and he was told that the alarm checked out :eek:

The same is going to happen with all security systems they bring the license in for.

KoolKid

altor wrote: »

I suppose its like the installer who installed an alarm in his sisters and gave them her number and all the details. They never contacted her and he was told that the alarm checked out :eek:

Did that happen?

altor

Yes, and he went on the good old Joe Duffy to tell the nation

fred funk }{

KoolKid wrote: »

Did that happen?

Yes. I remember being told about that. Shocking carry on.

kub

Lads in fairness does it really matter what the PSA propose. Bottom line is they have done absolutely nothing for our industry.

No I am incorrect, they have imposed on us extra costs so we can stay in business. I have lost all confidence in them after my intial confidence that they would stop the nixer brigade. In fairness I never thought it fully through.

What are they civil servants, what powers have they, really though?

I think now its high time that the manfucture and distribution of blank bell box covers be stopped. Also I think its about time that they actually knocked on the doors of premises with these boxes and just pop the question to the occupier ' Just who was it that installed your alarm' or check the panel for a sticker or the manual for an installers name and phone number.
Not only would they be doing the rest of us a favour, but i think that they might recoup a few bob for revenue and do the social welfare lads a favour.

altor

That is what they should be doing. They have had long enough to get themselves up to the job at hand. If you or I was to hand in our license they would not be long investigating us.

RYBO

altor wrote: »

KoolKid wrote: »

I enquired about a report I sent a while back, I basically got the reply we're looking into it, if theres anything further we'll let you know.

I suppose its like the installer who installed an alarm in his sisters and gave them her number and all the details. They never contacted her and he was told that the alarm checked out :eek:

The same is going to happen with all security systems they bring the license in for.

Where did you get this info altor????

altor

Common knowledge in the security industry.

Jnealon

There is no way they will be able to enforce the cctv market. It will only work with the monitored sites where a urn is needed.
Also manufacturers and distributors need to be held accountable

ehealo

RYBO wrote: »

Where did you get this info altor????

Yeah, I remember that guy on the Joe Duffy Show. It's hard to have any faith in the PSA. Rogue installers rampent around Sligo, Leitrim and Cavan. You go to the trouble of visiting a site, preparing and posting a quote and then to discover a week later there's a blank white HKC box flashing on the property. Would put you in bad form. PSA not too active around already mentioned Counties!:mad:

altor

I think all installers are fighting a loosing battle with the PSA, they should be doing more to protect the industry as that is what they where set up to do. There seems to be more complaints about no enforcement so what are they actually doing ? (except for thinking up more ways to get money out of us as installers)

kub

ehealo wrote: »

Yeah, I remember that guy on the Joe Duffy Show. It's hard to have any faith in the PSA. Rogue installers rampent around Sligo, Leitrim and Cavan. You go to the trouble of visiting a site, preparing and posting a quote and then to discover a week later there's a blank white HKC box flashing on the property. Would put you in bad form. PSA not too active around already mentioned Counties!:mad:

ehealo you are not alone, the PSA are not active in any county.

Mind you I recall a while back, a few installers in Wexford got together and did not renew their licences. Apparantly the PSA became very active all of a sudden in that neck of the woods. Busy shooting fish in a barrell.

Jnealon

altor wrote: »

I think all installers are fighting a loosing battle with the PSA,

From what I gather installers are doing nothing about it, there is no body representing installers, maybe one or two small groups in wexford but thats it.
The distributors have IDAS which looks after their needs. It must work because they continue to sell to anybody and everybody.
I welcome regulation and licensing and don't mind paying for it but only if it works

Don't quote me on this but I heard that they were on a 3 day week in Tipp.
Cant regulate an industry of this scale on a 3 day week

altor

If that is true it is a disgrace.

I have heard quite a few stories about the PSA in the last week which makes me sick. When I think of the money that all installers have to pay them and they do nothing for us in return. So much for them sorting out the security industry, they cant even investigate a case when its handed to them on a plate.

kub

Why should they do anything? Its all the same to them, they are at the end of the day civil servants.
Now in fairness, I have spoken with a few of them on various occasions, they could not have been more helpful.
On one of these occasions, the staff member informed me that there are guys on the board of this organisation who are repersentatives of the installers section.
I was also informed that off the record, these reps are from the larger companies in this country. And that as far as these guys are concerned, it would suit them just fine if smaller installers would just pack up their little vans and get out of the industry as on a day to day basis they just cannot compete with us.
I recall a few years ago there was an installer up around Athlone somewhere trying to set up a body from the small installers section to take on The PSA and bring our concerns to them.
He had a very valid point, we the small guys pay in a hell of a lot more than these big companies.
Does anyone know what became of it? I never heard anymore about it.