going rate for graduate

Tar.Aldarion

Hello, am wondering what the going rates for entry level graduates are these days in software development or testing. Say a junior role in java etc with an honours degree in elec/comp engineering?

How about if you have a masters also in computer science? Would this matter much to a starting salary?

RedXIV

I started as a tester last April on 25K. A masters might be worth bumping up a bit more and USUALLY dev jobs are worth more than testers so I'd be leaning towards 27-30K

Lollipops23

A graduate in sw dev (with a good standard of degree) can expect anywhere from €22k-€28k, depending on the company and role itself etc.

Webmonkey

Also interested in this...

A quick question, does it really make a difference on the salary if you located in Dublin vs the rest of the country. Always assumed it was a few k more in general in Dublin but it doesn't seem to be that way from what I see!

Sleepy

Honestly, as a recent grad, the experience you'll be gaining is the thing to focus on rather than salary. Obviously don't get taken advantage of but it's the experience you get in your first few years that will determine your salary for the next 10 years or so.

I'd say look at anything offering over €25k where you'll be learning. If you're strong on JAVA take a look at Fidelity Investments in Galway. Have a few mates who work for them and they've been treated very well (entire first year spent training which the company got certified as an MSC Software Development) and had some nice opportunities for secondment to the States etc.

Tar.Aldarion

Hello thanks guys, I don't really mind the money and want experience and an interesting job more, but at the same time wouldn't like being taken advantage of :-p

I have a 1st class honours in Electronic + Computer Engineering and a Masters in Networks and Distributed Systems. Just looking for my first job, have done testing and a small amount of dev in work placement and that's it. My masters was quite good for projects and agile processes and all that malarky so I'm glad I did that. Was wondering if that mattered at all.

An entry level job I am looking at is 20-25k, which was lower than what I expected, just going on my friends wages.

Within this role you will be required to:

• Analysis, design and development of iPhone / Android client applications and Mobile Web applications, taking projects through the entire software development cycle from requirements gathering to product release.
• Design and implement new functionality for the iPhone and Android platform within the operating system, client applications and web client applications run on modern Touch Oriented Browser.
• Apply the best combination of theory and practice to create a team culture that generates world-class architecture, designs and code.
• Drive development practices such as version control, bug tracking, reviews, design patterns, refactoring, UML, risk analysis and model-driven design.
• Maintain your technical competence. You will be required to maintain and demonstrate technical competence with new releases of Mobile technologies/tools/frameworks
• Evaluate new technologies for the suitability of use within Storm and our customer’s environments.
• Maintaining and tuning existing applications to meet changing requirements and performance challenges as business expands.
• Bringing innovation and maintaining best practice through our environment.
• Strong engineering input in the interaction and design of co-operating systems.
• Develop architecture and low-end designs based on external customer requirements and industry quality guidelines.
• Communication of designs and other development issues to developers and managers
• Design, develop and manage automated unit and acceptance tests
• Peer review of design code and tests.
• Participate in Agile development program
• Bug Fixing/Profiling/Tuning/Troubleshooting

And also what kind of salary would a test position receive?

Webmonkey

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Hello thanks guys, I don't really mind the money and want experience and an interesting job more, but at the same time wouldn't like being taken advantage of :-p

I have a 1st class honours in Electronic + Computer Engineering and a Masters in Networks and Distributed Systems. Just looking for my first job, have done testing and a small amount of dev in work placement and that's it. My masters was quite good for projects and agile processes and all that malarky so I'm glad I did that. Was wondering if that mattered at all.

An entry level job I am looking at is 20-25k, which was lower than what I expected, just going on my friends wages.




And also what kind of salary would a test position receive?

20-25k sounds a bit low to me.

Is this what recruiters are telling you? - I'm never going through them again.

Tar.Aldarion

Yes they told me. Not a recruiter but a hr outsourcing company, so they are acting as the hr of the company I suppose. They screen and put forward applicants. I said a lot of my friends started on 32-33k, they said they were just very lucky and that what they were offering is the going rate at the moment.

Bluetonic

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

I said a lot of my friends started on 32-33k

Do you believe your friends?

People have been known to exaggerate.

Tar.Aldarion

A few in particular yes, some I would not. You know the type that will exaggerate

Manach

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

They screen and put forward applicants. I said a lot of my friends started on 32-33k, .

Offhand, that seems only slightly on the high side. Also, as per Sleepy's post I've also heard that Fidelity Galway is a decent place to work from ex-coworkers.

homerjk

We hired three Java grads last week. Development jobs so not solely concentrating on testing or anything. One of them has a Masters, one of them has a BSc in Computing and the third has an Arts degree in Computing and something else. They all started on 26k. And we had tons of applicants.

chicken fingers

It also depends on how talented a programmer you are.
I know guys who never went to university doing 50 & 60k as Java and c#/.net developers.
One in particular is extraordinarily talented and I'm told he does more by himself with less resources than entire teams do together.

dazzday

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

I said a lot of my friends started on 32-33k, they said they were just very lucky and that what they were offering is the going rate at the moment.

Depends really on the company.Just from my personal experience:

Get into a grad scheme at the big boys: IBM, Intel, Cisco, SAP, HP etc and you should be looking at starting circa 30-33k. But remember competition is fierce for these (possibly an opportunity for your masters to stand out)

The financial it services (ersnt + young etc) seem to a little lower (~25K-29k) but will certainly love the extra letters after your name and can offer some substantial rises after the extensive in-house training etc.

SMEs will tend to offer lower again (~25k), but prehaps offer the best opportunity to get your foot in the door.

Remember for the IT industry it really is about getting those first few years experience, particularly in a chosen field (V-mare, Java development etc).

c_man

Discussed a few months back on Development - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056271098

Probably worth a look.

pakb1ue

I graduated in 2010 in CS. I am working up in Belfast so my wage is lower as the living cost is too. But the same job in Dublin for the same company is €30k. 4 of my class mates are on €30-32 wage bracket. The rest are all on €25.

Again wage does not matter at this stage, experience does.

experiMental

It's all good that some companies are offering graduates a decent living wage, but where is a better job security, in Belfast area or in the Republic? I don't want to work for a year and then lose a job, and start looking for it all over again.

pakb1ue

experiMental wrote: »

It's all good that some companies are offering graduates a decent living wage, but where is a better job security, in Belfast area or in the Republic? I don't want to work for a year and then lose a job, and start looking for it all over again.

Myself and all my friends are all on permanent contracts bar one. Invest NI protect my job.

Even if the company goes bust after 2 months of you starting its still better having them two months experience. But TBH if a company are hiring they are hardly going to go bust a few months later.

Tar.Aldarion

so after all this, when they ask you what wage you expect, what do you say?!
a range? 23-33? 22-32?

Webmonkey

I wouldn't give a range as they'll prob just select the bottom anyways. 30k+ maybe considering you have a masters and considering you are good enough and since it's in Dublin.

That's what I'd be going for.

Tar.Aldarion

Would just be concerned that as some companies would be offering less than that and it would excluding me.

When I said 30k at an interview last week they thought that was crazy high, the job offering a max of way less than that. They even rang up to say that is an unrealistic expectation for graduates these days afterwards.

Webmonkey

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Would just be concerned that as some companies would be offering less than that and it would excluding me.

When I said 30k at an interview last week they thought that was crazy high, the job offering a max of way less than that. They even rang up to say that is an unrealistic expectation for graduates these days afterwards.

That's fair enough. Maybe I'm wrong. But 30k was the higher one for a graduate when I was applying last year. There were jobs and I was offered (turned down one) for 30k. Though these were C++ roles so maybe wages are slightly higher for that.

I think you should be able to get 30k if you can prove yourself in an interview, but that's just me.

Tar.Aldarion

Indeed, 6 months ago most my friends got wages for 30k+.

Was just shocked by their reaction, almost didn't want me to got for the technical interview because of it!

Tar.Aldarion

Also just got asked would I consider contract work instead of a permanent job, having no experience in this, would that be wise for a graduate? higher day pay but no job security, would they even train you or just expect you to know?

briano

30K is high, but not crazy, and not if there are other factors, specifically a masters and some relevant experience. Plus, if you don't ask for the money, you're not going to get it.

If asked for a range stick to the traditional line of some amount followed by "...but it is not all about the money, I also like to consider the working enviroment and the technologies I'll be working on; If it is something that interests me of course I am more than ready to be flexible..." and so on.

If they are interested they'll make you an offer of some amount that they think is fair. Of course, if you have provided a lower figure then that's what they'll offer.

Sleepy

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Was just shocked by their reaction, almost didn't want me to got for the technical interview because of it!

Could well just be the case the individual in question is playing hardball. The fact they still want you to do the technical interview would suggest the employer is just tight and hoping to squeeze you on the salary tbh. (it's not my boss (a chap called Barry) is it?! )

Some companies/bosses pay better than others just as some people are slower than others to put their hand in their pocket for their round.

Make it clear that you're open to a lower offer but would expect the "overall package" to be worth your while e.g. certificatied training, holiday packages, bonus etc.

Tar.Aldarion

thanks for the advice, i can see salaries ranging wildly so far. 12k diff for two similar jobs took the biscuit...and you want me to pick you why?