Promotion of wild game as food

lofty95

Something i have been thinking for a while now but is there enough or is there anything being done to promote wild game as an alternative to mainstream meats, or do people think this would be a waste of time in the current economic climate.

r3nu4l

lofty95 wrote: »

Something i have been thinking for a while now but is there enough or is there anything being done to promote wild game as an alternative to mainstream meats, or do people think this would be a waste of time in the current economic climate.

Hugh-Fearnly Whittingstall has been banging this drum for years. Not sure if there's any specific programmes (television or otherwise) in Ireland but he has shot deer on his show and then butchered and cooked them.

cavan shooter

If you look at the CAI and BASC websites, Game to eat etc, this is a movement that is catching on in the UK. I suppose we are in a way stuck in the era of handiness and blandness and game is seen as too much hassel and you hear people often say I wouldnt eat a rabbit or a pheasant too strong a taste.

Compare that to the 1950's and the 60's when everything my Father shot was for the table and in fact going for a shot was like going to the Supermarket to get tomorrows dinner.

We ran a very successful Game to eat night this year and around 80 people turned up, we had venison, rabbit curry and game casserole and chinese duck. there was very little left and people were amazed at how "normal" it tasted.

One thing I dont believe in as a shooting man is the selling of game to dealers or others and I think this eventually will be the ruin of the deer stalking, pigeon shooting etc so while I would welcome the encouragement of "Taste of Game" etc if there is a massive up take watch everything going pear shaped, more poaching etc. Its like bounty on foxes and vermin, every gob shiet with a gun would be out.

INEEDANID

It should be promoted.

I think someone should set up a website on where it can be purchased in Ireland too. It can be hard to find it a lot of the time.

cavan shooter

INEEDANID wrote: »

It should be promoted.

I think someone should set up a website on where it can be purchased in Ireland too. It can be hard to find it a lot of the time.

Get to know a couple of shooters, I give it away to friends when I have too much. But you dress it.:) in fact a Lad I work with is always getting rabbit and pigeon from me

lofty95

cavan shooter wrote:

One thing I dont believe in as a shooting man is the selling of game to dealers or others and I think this eventually will be the ruin of the deer stalking, pigeon shooting etc so while I would welcome the encouragement of "Taste of Game" etc if there is a massive up take watch everything going pear shaped, more poaching etc. Its like bounty on foxes and vermin, every gob shiet with a gun would be out.

How can it be addressed that whatever is being shot is taken from a sustainable source and not taken merely for financial gain but as part of some management program

cavan shooter

lofty95 wrote: »

How can it be addressed that whatever is being shot is taken from a sustainable source and not taken merely for financial gain but as part of some management program

Its a difficult one, The only proof on that count is the likes of the driven shoots. They put out x amount of birds etc and can be inspected.

The walk in off the street game dealers with no questions asked is the problem with deer poaching. When I hunt a pheasant I hunt it with dog and shotgun and if I get one I get one, if I miss so be it I got a good walk and hunt.

Shooting to sell side of thing if i want to "kill pheasants" why walk, use a 22lr shoot 10 sell 10. Easy cash, total illegal but.....then youll hear of more pens getting robbed, ducks getting trapped on rivers. I'll get shot down for this but I believe the selling of game if not regulated properly will be the demise of hunting for sport.

pheasntstalker

i d have to agree with cavanshooter ,as regards regulating the sale of game, personly i enjoy the hunt be it pheasant/duck or rabbit etc ,for the pot ,and i would sell the excess game to a geniune gamedealer above board may i add! to offset the cost of cartridges/fuel, it wouldnt mean id hunt for financial gain,just as i stated to cover a few cartridges etc, i happly give any excess game i have to friends an family that want it anyway as it is as long as its not wasted

cavan shooter

Apparently they use a tag system in the states, where you buy a number of tags for the number of deer (I no nothing about it) but at least I assume you cant sell the deer on without the tag.

Grizzly 45

The tag in the US is just to prove legally taken game and is more for policing by F&G depts than anything else.

moby30

Hugh fearnley sells his game at a farmers Market. Would it not be an idea for gun clubs to promote it at farmers markets in there area as they are becoming more popular and it's an oppertunity to teach people not only about eating game but the efforts that the clubs go to make it a sustainable source of food and in turn get the support of the local community. Its also a great oppertunity for the club to make a few bob.

cavan shooter

moby30 wrote: »

Hugh fearnley sells his game at a farmers Market. Would it not be an idea for gun clubs to promote it at farmers markets in there area as they are becoming more popular and it's an oppertunity to teach people not only about eating game but the efforts that the clubs go to make it a sustainable source of food and in turn get the support of the local community. Its also a great oppertunity for the club to make a few bob.

Thats a great idea, and the bould Hugh is a master at it, however we live in ireland and to be able to sell then you need to be signed of by the department of health, a girl I know who was doing a dinger of a trade selling buns, biscuits and bread at a country market was stopped because your domestic kitchen didnt meet "department" standards for a commercial buisness.

You see in England your exempt from complying with all the "Elf and Safey" stuff once you apply common sense and have a hygenic kitchen. So basically Cottage industry is out...She was stopped because she was making bread in her domestic kitchen and not seperate :(??????

Me thinks its time for a bit of sense

lofty95

Education has a huge part to play in relation to game. The general poplation all they see is the bird or animal being shot they fail to see the welfare or conditions that it has lived up to that point has been to a far higher standard than that of any farm animal because it has been natural and free. Not only that im sure if you were to look at the nutritional values in comparison to main stream meats it would certainly throw up some interesting results. Hugh fearnley whittingstall knows this but is a shrewd operator and has made a fortune in the process.

moby30 wrote: »

Hugh fearnley sells his game at a farmers Market. Would it not be an idea for gun clubs to promote it at farmers markets in there area as they are becoming more popular and it's an oppertunity to teach people not only about eating game but the efforts that the clubs go to make it a sustainable source of food and in turn get the support of the local community. Its also a great oppertunity for the club to make a few bob.

moby30

Food hygiene although over the top in some instances is something that we should be embracing aswell- I know how difficult and frustrating it can be but it's still not such a massive hurdle to stop it happening. And in terms of education now is the time it should be done as people like hugh fernley got the ball rolling in terms of showing animal welfare Through mass production etc, but I think the main reason people aren't buying into game especially is the price you pay in a supermarket. I saw a pair of rabbits selling for 11.99 recently? If just one club or group set up something as a trial I'd imagine it would be a huge success.

terminator2

was that in a pet store Moby

lofty95

Wonder where those rabbits originated from to

cavan shooter

lofty95 wrote: »

Wonder where those rabbits originated from to

Farmed and maybe imported, I remember Moore Street 25 years ago used to have pheasant, and rabbits hanging from butchers shops. I remember the meet market in Leeds the same.

HarryGorman

We looked into this ourselves. We thought it would be a great thing to do, but in the end its just not worth it.

1) Laws and red tape
2) Cost of getting yourself set-up to pass the laws and redtape
3) As somebody else mentioned, people start getting greedy once they know there is money involved.

I cant remember all the ins-and-outs so bare with me.

The biggest hurdle was we had to set up a kitchen. A proper industrial kitchen. You cant just do this stuff from your shed. THe cost alone on just the kitchen was staggering and the procedures was mind boggling. IRC it had to be all tiled for easy wipe down, soap dispensers plastered everywhere, hair nets, aprons, disposbale gloves, a wash down since rabbits carry fleas and ticks.

Next everybody whos going to be involved (in any way) needs to be trained in food safety and health. Not much of an issue on its own, but it was something nobody wanted to pay for out of their own pocket. So another club expense.

The next big thing was we would need to send someone on a proper full time course (not a 1 day job with your dinner included and a badge at the end) which would teach them how to butcher animals and how to recognise good meat and recognise bad meat. If a rabbit has tulermia (spelling??) and somebody eats it and is landed in hospital then your up the swanny. So that guy has to be present EVERY time someones doing something and then sign off all the meat as having being inspected.

Insurance = money pit.... need I say anymore?

In the end it was decided that you cant just have a little stall on saturday morning and sell a few rabbits.... well not legally and above board you cant. If you want to do it, its either a full blown game dealer business or forget it. The kitchen alone is going to set you back a few thousand. How many rabbits over how many years is it going take to get even say your first 5 grand?

Next problem. It may not have happened when push comes to shove (but personally I believe it would have).

There was talk with some of the lads in the club when they heard we were going to sell game. Their eyes lit up green. And lads talking "oh Im going to go out on that big hill with the 308 and shoot rabbits all around me" and then someone else butts in, "well I'll be on the opposite hill with my 300win mag monday to sunday".

And then a few of the genuine lads were very upset that the rabbits and pheasants would be wiped out because 1 or 2 lads are greedy.

Even if you say "we wont take rabbits that were hit with a big caliber" your still going to have a couple of unemployed lads with nothing better to do then go round with subsonics and a 22lr all day for the extra few pound at the end of the week.

And lets face it, your after sinking thousands into this project, last thing your going to do is start refusing rabbits on ethical issues.... same as game dealers taking poached deer under the counter. Business is business... ethics and morals can come later.

moby30

well they had a name on it that im sure everybody would have heard of. i used to sell rabbits and deer to them when i had too much but it ended up to much hassle. maybe thats the price people want to pay i just find it hard to figure out such a mark up when it costs me a couple of cents and a few hours out walking.

moby30

well what about getting involved with a local butchers instead of farmers market- that would possibly work out better-it would eliminate costs but no doubt there would be some red tape showing up along the line though

HarryGorman

moby30 wrote: »

well what about getting involved with a local butchers instead of farmers market- that would possibly work out better-it would eliminate costs but no doubt there would be some red tape showing up along the line though

Thats what we did for a short time when we realised that we couldnt do it ourselves. (notice the emphasis on "a short time")

Believe it or not, finding a butcher to take game meat is a feat all in itself.

However, you will find someone if you look hard enough. THe problem is when hes offering you maybe 50 cent a rabbit and then he sells it at 15 and 16 euro... after awhile it gets a bit rich. And its hardly worth the effort. (Especially when he says he'll only take 5 rabbits at the most because they arent a great seller)

ALthough from his point of view, hes got the kitchen to pay, hes got wages to hand out, courses to put employees through, insurance to pay, and if someone gets sick from a rabbit that you gave him.... its not your name all over the papers- its his. And that could ruin a business... especially these days... butchers are losing customers to supermarkets all the time.

Buying meat from an established farmer (whos scuritinised by the health and safety) is a safe bet, buying a rabbit from some lad who just walked in the door..???

HarryGorman

Moby, heres a book you might like. I plan on getting it myself as soon funds allow.

http://www.amazon.com/Basket-Case-Whats-Happening-Irelands/dp/0717145794/ref=sr_1_10?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1313662598&sr=1-10

cavan shooter

When we were thinking about running a game night we first considered having a barby every pub that we mentioned it to wasn't overly happy:(, then we suggested everyone cook something and bring it in, now that's grand if only members attend but if its to be consumed by the general populace then we had to be careful:(, in the end and successful it was too we supplied all the game to a local bistro chef to prepare and serve up, so other than shooting it we didnt touch it. By the way we made sure to announce that the game was shot and that pellets would be found and we even had a bottle of wine for the person who presented a pellet to the organisers.:D

Deerspotter

If you want to promote wild game as food, then each person needs to be a diplomat for it and for hunting.

If you have excess meat, you could package it nicely and pass it on to someone that will appreciate it.
If you are passing on venison to a person that has not had it before, maybe don't give them a smelly old stag! Give them a nice bit, so they might want to try it again...

As said in another thread, there is an “alive and well country barter system” in place for this kind of thing. Swap a pheasant for something they have to offer – a nice homemade apple pie etc…

Money and Sport should not be mixed. Especially when it is about the life, death, suffering, pain and / or extinction of an animal / population. The primary concern should always be the welfare of the animal you have in your sights and the longevity of the herd! Not the cash you might get if you take the risky shot…
By the way, I am an advocate of hunting and country sports.

clivej

Well I've still got a small roast of venison in the frezzer here.

Free to a good home if collected. ASAP.

Grizzly 45

moby30 wrote: »

well what about getting involved with a local butchers instead of farmers market- that would possibly work out better-it would eliminate costs but no doubt there would be some red tape showing up along the line though

Had a chat with my local lad about that...
NO WAY will he or any other butcher worth the name touch game in anyway. EU Health&Safty again..
If he is found with a deer carcass in with pork and beef carcasses in the cool room,thats an immediate close down by dept of health inspectors.
Technically,they have to use different impliments on the carcasses as well.IE a set of knives for beef and one for pork.So again they would need a set of cutlery for game.
It looks like a game dealer or nothing.Or spend a fortune and become a game dealer to pay for the set up,and your shooting becomes a back seat pastime.
However ,as this depression goes deeper,I can see a grey/black market developing for game as a cheaper alternative to beef.In which even the game dealer ligit or not gets cut out of the circle by lads shooting "to order" whatever for somones freezer,and where carcass handling or gutting is going to be of secondary importance to the money involved.:(

moby30

its crazy to think how the country has gone with all these obstacles in the way and then people give out about the cost of things-but i think the main point is still about educating people and the benefits of eating game. even if we cooked and prepared it ourselves in our own homes and gave it out for free. let them spend all that money in a supermarket if they want-at the end of the day gun clubs could use it as an oppertunity to earn money by selling direct to the dealer which although im not the biggest supporter of any more probably makes more sense. at the end of the day its not the money that our sport needs it the support of your local community and some good press.

Arthur.

Deerspotter wrote: »

Money and Sport should not be mixed. Especially when it is about the life, death, suffering, pain and / or extinction of an animal / population. The primary concern should always be the welfare of the animal you have in your sights and the longevity of the herd! Not the cash you might get if you take the risky shot…

+1
Thats a huge fear of mine, that one day, people are going to be out shooting anything that moves for the sake of a few euros. Its bad enough already going out to a field that was alive and well yesterday, and then today you go out and find 10-15 dead rabbits lying there... shot maybe an hour ago. It will only get worse if people start making money on it. I wouldnt be suprised if we saw certain animals being completely wiped out in different areas.

moby30

just out of curiosity any time i left game into a game dealers i was never asked about which club i was a member of or gun licences. its a few years since i left anything in so it has possibly changed by now. can anyone answer that?

lofty95

How is it if we are all part of the eu that in england they have different legislation in relation to selling meat at a farmers market. Surely it should be all the one

Deerspotter

Irelands literal translation of the rules is laughed at in France, Germany & the UK, but our complete lack of enforcement of other rules (dumping slurry near rivers etc) is serioulsy frowned on.
It would seem, they have picked the easy rules to enforce and not bothered their arse with others.
Bloody Irish :rolleyes:

LostCovey

cavan shooter wrote: »

Thats a great idea, and the bould Hugh is a master at it, however we live in ireland and to be able to sell then you need to be signed of by the department of health, a girl I know who was doing a dinger of a trade selling buns, biscuits and bread at a country market was stopped because your domestic kitchen didnt meet "department" standards for a commercial buisness.

You see in England your exempt from complying with all the "Elf and Safey" stuff once you apply common sense and have a hygenic kitchen. So basically Cottage industry is out...She was stopped because she was making bread in her domestic kitchen and not seperate :(??????

Me thinks its time for a bit of sense

Apart from all that (which I am not arguing with) :

I don't think its very realistic in Ireland. In England sporting estates are like game farms, most of ours comes from rough shooting. Beyond a very limited niche, I don't believe commercialisation of game as food would be sustainable.