Two jailed for four years over Facebook posts

MagicMarker

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0816/ukriots.html

In England, two men have been jailed for four years for inciting disorder via social networking site Facebook.

The pair, who appeared at Chester Crown Court today, were arrested last week following incidents of violent disorder in London and other English cities.

Neither of their Facebook posts resulted in a riot-related event.

Jordan Blackshaw, 20, of Vale Road, Marston, Northwich, Cheshire and Perry Sutcliffe-Keenan, 22, of Richmond Avenue, Warrington, were both sentenced to four years behind bars.

The court heard that Cheshire Police discovered a Facebook event, entitled 'Smash Down Northwich Town', created by Blackshaw.

Sutcliffe-Keenan also set up a Facebook page, encouraging disorder in his suburb of Warrington called 'Let's Have a Riot in Latchford'.

Assistant Chief Constable of Cheshire Police, Phil Thompson, said: 'If we cast
our minds back just a few days to last week and recall the way in which technology was used to spread incitement and bring people together to commit acts of criminality it is easy to understand the four year sentences that were handed down in court today.

'In Cheshire, we quickly recognised the impact of the situation on our communities and the way in which social media was being used to promote and incite behaviour that would strike fear in to the hearts of our communities.

'From the outset Cheshire Constabulary adopted a robust policing approach using the information coming into the organisation to move quickly and effectively against any person whose behaviour was likely to encourage criminality. Officers took swift action against those people who have been using Facebook and other social media sites to incite disorder.

'The sentences passed down today recognise how technology can be abused to incite criminal activity and sends a strong message to potential troublemakers about the extent to which ordinary people value safety and order in their lives and their communities.

'Anyone who seeks to undermine that will face the full force of the law.'

Does this strike anyone else as being slightly fúcking retarded? Yes, they deserved to be punished, but 4 years for setting up a facebook page that at the end of the day didn't result in any rioting at all? Whatever happened to the punishment being proportionate to the crime?

double GG

People who have committed manslaughter have gotten less.

Royale with Cheese

MagicMarker wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0816/ukriots.html



Does this strike anyone else as being slightly fúcking retarded?

Yes. Organising criminal activity on Facebook is extremely retarded.

Saila

"I was only messing officer, there isnt really a bomb in the violin case"

Corsendonk

Not really

darklighter

Saila has it spot on.

These two knew exactly what they were doing.

And in reality, they wont serve anything close to 4 years

Chuck Stone

Message being sent out to the wider public.

I can see people returning to pigeons to ensure privacy.

drunkmonkey

What part of "I was having a Laugh" do law men not understand.

flutterflye

Thousands who actually caused havoc and civil unrest will go scot free because they will never be caught, and these two get 4 years for an unsuccessful possible incitement?
Ridiculous.

kirving

It even rhymes!

daveyboy_1ie

I think everything will be done to punish those caught up in last weeks madness to try and discourage it from happening again. I fully believe people will lose benefits (before people get their knickers in a twist I am not suggesting all those in the riots were on benefits), go to jail and generally be treated far worse than they normally would for such crimes. And I for one totally agree with it, its about time criminals were treated as if they actually commited a crime. Good enough for them.

Corsendonk

double GG wrote: »

People who have committed manslaughter have gotten less.

Well yes but thats been due to the time most of them spent in prison before the trial.

The UK government has to make an example to get the voters confidence back so you will find they will throw the max sentence at anyone convicted in relation to the rioting. 12 months later they will release some of them because their prisons are already overcrowded.

emeraldstar

MagicMarker wrote: »

Does this strike anyone else as being slightly fúcking retarded? Yes, they deserved to be punished, but 4 years for setting up a facebook page that at the end of the day didn't result in any rioting at all? Whatever happened to the punishment being proportionate to the crime?

Mneh. I think any of the utter f*cking scum who had anything (even attempted) to do with last week's riots deserve everything they get.

bucketybuck

I am trying work out what level of sympathy I have for these men, does anybody know what you call numbers that are less than zero?

Killer Pigeon

I'd love to see the actual facebook pages they set up. The news article doesn't really give much information about them.

Maybe these lads were just taking the piss and they didn't actual indeed for there to be rioting. The pages would've been retarded and all but I doubt they actually meant it and I really doubt anyone reading the pages would really give a shite anyway. I bet they were only looking for "likes" on facebook.

Gordon

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What part of "I was having a Laugh" do law men not understand.

Nothing, they understand it completely, and they understand that you were probably just having a laugh, but nobody else was laughing.

Sorry, just accidentally chopped yer leg off there, but sure I was just havin a laff, no bother!

mackg

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

I'd love to see the actual facebook pages they set up.

Maybe these lads were just taking the piss and they didn't actual indeed for there to be rioting. They would've been retarded pages and all but I doubt they actually meant it and I really doubt that any of the people who read the page would really give a shite anyway. I bet they were only looking for "likes" on facebook.

I could definitely see someone setting one of these up for a laugh after cans

Killer Pigeon

mackg wrote: »

I could definitely see someone setting one of these up for a laugh after cans

Totally. Drunken dribble hardly merits 4 years in prison. The people who should get those sentences are the people who actually went out and did the looting.

Ficheall

Who's brave enough to post a "Let's start a riot" thread in AH, eh? EH?
I dare ya!

Logical Fallacy

To be honest the UK are just making a mockery of themselves at this point. Some young lad got arrested for organising a water fight on Blackberry Messenger. It's jokes.

El Weirdo

Corsendonk wrote: »

The UK government has to make an example to get the voters confidence back so you will find they will throw the max sentence at anyone convicted in relation to the rioting. 12 months later they will release some of them because their prisons are already overcrowded.

The government have absolutely no say in the sentencing of individual crimes. It's up to the courts to decide.

My name is URL

And the people actually out doing the robbing and rioting are getting sentences of a month or so.. seems a bit mental imho. I'm not saying that the guys who posted on Facebook don't deserve a jail sentence but 4 years?

FetchTheGin

I am all for harsh punishment on the rioters but this is ridiculous.

They are young lads and will end up on a life of crime after that length of time in jail.

JONJO THE MISER

They will get plenty of people to poke them in prison.

Sunnyisland

The way the police/courts maybe looking at it is the rioters are just foot soldiers who will do what there told, these men were organising and giving directions so were far more instrumental in organising the destruction,The higher up the ladder the harder the fall. IMO.

El Weirdo

realies wrote: »

The way the police/courts maybe looking at it is the rioters are just foot soldiers who will do what there told, these men were organising and giving directions so were far more instrumental in organising the destruction,The higher up the ladder the harder the fall. IMO.

It's just a pity for them that no one was actually taking the orders they were giving.

theneed2rock

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

I'd love to see the actual facebook pages they set up. The news article doesn't really give much information about them.

Maybe these lads were just taking the piss and they didn't actual indeed for there to be rioting. The pages would've been retarded and all but I doubt they actually meant it and I really doubt anyone reading the pages would really give a shite anyway. I bet they were only looking for "likes" on facebook.

a joke that went badly wrong

Sunnyisland

The word that is important here is incitement and whether people took notice of them or not is immaterial,
Inciting a riot applies to a person who organizes, encourages, or participates in a riot. It can apply to one who urges or instigates others to riot. It does not apply to someone who merely advocates ideas or expresses beliefs, if those ideas and beliefs do not involve advocating violence.

deepertheroots

I'm deleting my facebook, just incase I say anything out of line when I'm a little tipsy or something!

Sunnyisland

deepertheroots wrote: »

I'm deleting my facebook, just incase I say anything out of line when I'm a little tipsy or something!

Big brother is forever watching now

deepertheroots

realies wrote: »

Big brother is forever watching now

Big brother can suck it, he won't get me on boards!

Bosco boy

Hard men of the Internet get to do a bit of hard time, good riddance, might make a few think twice in the future. The consequences of their actions could have resulted in Serious injury or even fatalities, no sympathy for idiots here!

Sunnyisland

deepertheroots wrote: »

Big brother can suck it, he won't get me on boards!

Why cant they They have gotten people here before,sure there reading this right now so be nice.;)

deepertheroots

Bosco boy wrote: »

Hard men of the Internet get to do a bit of hard time, good riddance, might make a few think twice in the future. The consequences of their actions could have resulted in Serious injury or even fatalities, no sympathy for idiots here!

I don't know, it's scary to think that I could say something as silly as let's go down at wreck the dail tomorrow, and I get four years in jail!

krudler

So people who were actually IN the riots are getting slaps on the wrist and asbos, and someone who started a facebook page is getting 4 years in jail? the law system can be completely fcuked up at times. not condoning what they did, its stupidity at its finest and deserves some kind of punishment, but 4 YEARS? come on, theres people who have commited rape and serious assault for less.

Bosco boy

krudler wrote: »

So people who were actually IN the riots are getting slaps on the wrist and asbos, and someone who started a facebook page is getting 4 years in jail? the law system can be completely fcuked up at times. not condoning what they did, its stupidity at its finest and deserves some kind of punishment, but 4 YEARS? come on, theres people who have commited rape and serious assault for less.

I can get over the speed of the case, how it was heard so quick, surely they got some poor advice, at the very least their solicitors should have been looking for an adjournment until things cooled down. I expect an appeal and probally a 6 month sentence with the rest suspended when it comes up at a less tense time.

Pacing Mule

Look at it this way ...

If you succeed in organising a riot then you are responsible for the collective actions of all who took part in that riot. It wouldn't have happened without you. All the damage done, robberies committed, assaults and murders that took place in your organised riot are your responsibillity. You deserve to do the life sentence with the murderers who ran over those trying to protect their property.

So why should attempting to do this not carry a severe penalty ?

If you attempt to murder someone and are arrested on the way to the scene should you get off free because you didn't get there ? Does a gang planning to commit a robbery deserve to go free ?

The answer of course is no so therefore anyone trying to incite a riot should be punished harshly. A person who steals a tv has done far less damage to society than what an overall riot started by someone like this would. To compare sentences for the two is not comparing like with like.

123balltv

facebook is nothing but trouble :mad: cant wait for it to be terminated

deepertheroots

I think the UK really needs a 'supercop' from the US to regain control and arm all the police on the streets!

Crazy Horse 6

This has to be a joke. 4 fecking years :eek: although they sound like two idiots the sentence is completely over the top.

Actually this is very scary when you think about it. What now talking about something is now worse than commiting the crime itself? Incredible scary stuff the thought police are'nt far off.

My name is URL

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

So why should attempting to do this not carry a severe penalty ?

If it was the case that their actions actually led to violence or damage then a severe sentence would be understandable. In this case it didn't. How many people made jokes around the time of the riot which could be mistaken for incitement.. should all of those people be held to account also?

It was a Facebook group.. not the fcuking Gunpowder Plot!

locked_out

Reminds me of this case: http://www.metro.co.uk/news/814015-man-may-face-jail-after-twitter-bomb-threat-hoax

Pacing Mule

My name is URL wrote: »

If it was the case that their actions actually led to violence or damage then a severe sentence would be understandable. In this case it didn't. How many people made jokes around the time of the riot which could be mistaken for incitement.. should all of those people be held to account also?

It was a Facebook group.. not the fcuking Gunpowder Plot!

I suppose it's up to a judge to decide if it was a throw away joke or a deliberate and genuine attempt to incite a riot.

Anyone who deliberately attempts to incite a riot deserves a lenghty custodial sentence IMO. I would not say the same for those who made jokes at the time though.

mike65

Faecesbook home of knackers, pimps and toe-rags

The sentence is all about sending a message and having plenty of others now crapping themselves as they wonder if that page/message was spotted before it was taken down (I take it one can delete a message, don't use it myself).

Richard Hillman

The message is being sent out to make sure it never happens again. With these sentences, it will be a couple of generations until people will even think about doing something similar.

280special

Were their postings intended as a joke? Could it be taken as not being a joke by someone else ? Would the originators of the FB tread see it as funny if their front door or window was smashed in, their car set on fire, their job gone because some scumbag had torched their place of work?

These muppets deserve to pay a price, If it was a serious attempt to organise attacks then they should have the book thrown at them, as should those who burned, stole, assaulted and destroyed.

MagicMarker

Richard Hillman wrote: »

The message is being sent out to make sure it never happens again. With these sentences, it will be a couple of generations until people will even think about doing something similar.

A couple of generations? Are you really that naive?

syklops

deepertheroots wrote: »

I don't know, it's scary to think that I could say something as silly as let's go down at wreck the dail tomorrow, and I get four years in jail!

Its all about context. It is a tad silly to say "Lets go wreck the Dail" right now, because it would probably just be you and the ex-priest who dresses like a leprechaun. But during the worst civil unrest in 30 years, it is hard for those prosecuting to tell the difference between "I was just having a laugh" and "I was inciting hatred and violence".

Setting up an "Osama bin Laden is a legend" page on Facebook today, would get numerous 'likes'. Setting the same page up on September 12th 2001, and you would have had a number of agencies listening to your calls and reading your email. Context.

Sunnyisland

FYP

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-14557772