Why are we subsidising Losers?

FlutterinBantam

FFS.

We all have free education up to 16, yet some take the easy road and jack out early.

When the fcuking bell hits them, and they discover that maybe they should have stayed on, that they are qualified for nothing, no skills, no savvy, what do they do?

Whinge to the taxpayer to pay them,fcuking pay them :eek:to take 'courses' to upskill themselves.

Total load of bulldust in my opinion, just another leeching on John Q Taxpayer.

Why didn't they take the opportunity when they had it?

RedXIV

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

FFS.

We all have free education up to 16, yet some take the easy road and jack out early.

When the fcuking bell hits them, and they discover that maybe they should have stayed on, that they are qualified for nothing, no skills, no savvy, what do they do?

Whinge to the taxpayer to pay them,fcuking pay them :eek:to take 'courses' to upskill themselves.

Total load of bulldust in my opinion, just another leeching on John Q Taxpayer.

Why didn't they take the opportunity when they had it?

Doesn't feel like free education, you got any idea how much it costs to send a child to school in september? uniforms alone are 200 quid where I am

Crucifix

Because teenagers are stupid?

hooradiation

i don't see the problem.

7sr2z3fely84g5

Different circumstances,some people don't like school because their teacher can be a right prick or they have family problems at home.

Cill Dara Abu

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

FFS.

We all have free education up to 16, yet some take the easy road and jack out early.

When the fcuking bell hits them, and they discover that maybe they should have stayed on, that they are qualified for nothing, no skills, no savvy, what do they do?

Whinge to the taxpayer to pay them,fcuking pay them :eek:to take 'courses' to upskill themselves.

Total load of bulldust in my opinion, just another leeching on John Q Taxpayer.

Why didn't they take the opportunity when they had it?

Fcuk off

FlutterinBantam

Cill Dara Abu wrote: »

Fcuk off

nice quote pal.

Maybe you might address the problem and listen to reality.

Why should the taxpayer pay double for someone who didn't bother with the opportunity in the first place.

People are working the system pal, I'm pissed off paying for them.

Offy

Unemployed people didnt get us into this mess. Another stupid dole thread.

Tayla

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

FFS.

We all have free education up to 16, yet some take the easy road and jack out early.

When the fcuking bell hits them, and they discover that maybe they should have stayed on, that they are qualified for nothing, no skills, no savvy, what do they do?

Whinge to the taxpayer to pay them,fcuking pay them :eek:to take 'courses' to upskill themselves.

Total load of bulldust in my opinion, just another leeching on John Q Taxpayer.


Why didn't they take the opportunity when they had it?

Op there are all sorts of reasons why people can leave school early.

Why you'd pick on the people who do courses I do not know? If someone will do a course then they'd work if they got the opportunity.

Aoifey!

Generally the reasons people drop out of school as teenagers are a lot more complex than just to "take the easy road and jack out early". Most people who think that is all there is to it have lived a very sheltered life.

FlutterinBantam

Offy wrote: »

Unemployed people didnt get us into this mess. Another stupid dole thread.

Never said it did, but the punters who decided back in the Tiger days that the quick buck was King did.

The office was a Hiace covered with carry-out wrappers and invoices:D

Everyone was a 'developer' but couldn't spell for shit:D

Go figure that one out man.

My name is URL

In b4 the head of a pin

westendgirlie

Free Education in this country? Have you any idea how much books cost? You even have to rent the locker to store them in!!!

Eric Cartman

the dole is now a lifestyle choice for school leavers , I dont care what your background is or how your parents made their money , a desire to work should be part of any human being , its just pure laziness thats enabled by our lax investigation into fraud and making signing on such an easy process

El Weirdo

westendgirlie wrote: »

Free Education in this country? Have you any idea how much books cost? You even have to rent the locker to store them in!!!

Don't forget the "voluntary" contributions.

amacca

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

FFS.

We all have free education up to 16, yet some take the easy road and jack out early.

When the fcuking bell hits them, and they discover that maybe they should have stayed on, that they are qualified for nothing, no skills, no savvy, what do they do?

Whinge to the taxpayer to pay them,fcuking pay them :eek:to take 'courses' to upskill themselves.



Why didn't they take the opportunity when they had it?

you don't seem to be getting much in the way of a friendly reception for this sentiment but I'm with you..... to a degree at least

while some are victims of circumstance and deserve second and maybe third chances a lot have totally unrealistic expectations...there should be consequences for not availing of the opportunity when it was available and taking the thing seriously for those that are simply lazy or childish and likewise there should be benefits for those that get their nose to the grindstone early and try to make something of themselves

the taxpayer should not have to foot the bill for wasters (in the true sense of the word) - trouble is, how do you weed them out from those that are victims of unfortunate circumstances

either way...I feel a lot of fcukwits barely able to tie their shoelaces will be or have been paid for in these courses

tallaghtmick

A lot of them drop out at 16 to be apprentices who in the boom years where needed and got payed well and payed taxes aswell,go easy on them now OP,I work with a few ex tradesmen in a call centre,is it what we wanna do? no but we have no choice with the lack of jobs.

Aoifey!

El Weirdo wrote: »

Don't forget the "voluntary" contributions.

I was looking at my sister's school letters the other day. It actually said "Mandatory voluntary contribution". Apparently the school doesn't understand the english language very well.

looky loo

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

nice quote pal.

Maybe you might address the problem and listen to reality.

Why should the taxpayer pay double for someone who didn't bother with the opportunity in the first place.

People are working the system pal, I'm pissed off paying for them.

Wonder what you would do If you lost your job in the morning, easy to be a smug satisfied poster when you have a job. People opt out of school for varying reasons, sometimes its family life, sometimes its not having a teacher who will help a child along, and yes sometimes it is someone who has no interest in learning. With maturity comes growth and a realisation that you need a qualification to get a job, and in the end it would stop you paying for them as you said.

westendgirlie

El Weirdo wrote: »

Don't forget the "voluntary" contributions.

Oh yeah....for the liquid items to be filed in a filing cabinet

What bugs me is the rental charge changes every year in Junior Cert even though they use the same books for 3 years! How do they justify that ??

Seachmall

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Whinge to the taxpayer to pay them,fcuking pay them :eek:to take 'courses' to upskill themselves.

Because they decided to leave school for whatever reason and realized they've left themselves unemployable in the current climate. As a result they want to qualify to get jobs so as not to become a dole-leecher.

The people who want to take courses to improve their chances of employment are worth investing the money, money they will payback in the form of tax once they get a job.

It's the people who don't want to take the courses or upskill themselves that we should be complaining about.

7sr2z3fely84g5

Why are they considered losers?,op an person can fck up in school and leave,come back then years later as mature student in college and maybe do well for themselves,i think that says alot from the rubbish that teachers would tell students if you fail your leaving you fail your life.

FlutterinBantam

amacca wrote: »

you don't seem to be getting much in the way of a friendly reception for this sentiment but I'm with you..... to a degree at least

while some are victims of circumstance and deserve second and maybe third chances a lot have totally unrealistic expectations...there should be consequences for not availing of the opportunity when it was available and taking the thing seriously for those that are simply lazy or childish and likewise there should be benefits for those that get their nose to the grindstone early and try to make something of themselves

the taxpayer should not have to foot the bill for wasters (in the true sense of the word) - trouble is, how do you weed them out from those that are victims of unfortunate circumstances

either way...I feel a lot of fcukwits barely able to tie their shoelaces will be paid for in these courses

Exactly , nobody objects to a course for people who have a genuine will to improve their skills and better themselves.

But, as usual, a certain coterie of drones will latch on to these 'schemes' and use them as a vehicle, not to gain employment, but to **** out a year or two at John Q Taxpayer's expense.

Time to blow the whistle people, don't be fooled.

phasers

oh go and shyte, you're just being controvercial for the sake of it now.

k4kate

Drop out early. Before 16. You would penalise a person for a mistake made as a child?

Nice one!!!

Also, would you prefer that uneducated, unskilled person remain that way and possibly remain on jobseekers at the taxpayers expense or get a chance to upskill and get out of the poverty trap and pay back in tax over a lifetime's work what it cost to train/educate them?

FlutterinBantam

phasers wrote: »

oh go and shyte, you're just being controvercial for the sake of it now.

No, I'm asking a valid question, given the stringent fiscal and pecuniary dilemma which this country now finds itself in.

Haven't you heard?

BBDBB

thats the trouble with opportunity to improve your skills and knowledge


its often disguised as a bit of hard work and effort

staker

What about the educated professionals who haven't dropped out at all?,yet at the risk of future paycuts embark on "upskill" courses provided and paid for by the taxpayer in order to offset the impending loss of earnings!!

At least with the school drop-out I know it was more of a genuine fcuk-up!

Seachmall

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

No, I'm asking a valid question, given the stringent fiscal and pecuniary dilemma which this country now finds itself in.

Given the stringent fiscal and pecuniary dilemma which this country now finds itself in we need people working or getting qualified, paying taxes and having money to spend. We don't need people sitting at home complaining they can't get jobs because they've little or no skills while pulling money out of the tax-payers pocket.

Aoifey!

I don't think you can judge someone on a decision they made before the age of 16 (assumung it was their decision and not their parents/other factors). People make stupid decisions at the age because they are still children. Those stupid decisions shouldn't hold them back for the rest of their lives.

FlutterinBantam

Seachmall wrote: »

Given the stringent fiscal and pecuniary dilemma which this country now finds itself in we need people working or getting qualified, paying taxes and having money to spend. We don't need people sitting at home complaining they can't get jobs because they've little or no skills while pulling money out of the tax-payers pocket.

Indeed you are right, not doing 'courses' for the fun of it, and sucking tabs outside the local centre, while looking for info on the next course to go on.

Get a bleedin' job man, thousands of immigrants were able to do that?

Seachmall

Just to make the point that not everybody who drops out of school before the Leaving has made a mistake, I know a few people who dropped out of school early and are doing fairly well for themselves. Likewise I know a few who did their leaving and are happily standing in Dole lines.

7sr2z3fely84g5

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Indeed you are right, not doing 'courses' for the fun of it, and sucking tabs outside the local centre, while looking for info on the next course to go on.

Get a bleedin' job man, thousands of immigrants were able to do that?

The system has left some people with kids if they take a min wage job they will lose the med card etc.

prinz

staker wrote: »

What about the educated professionals who haven't dropped out at all?,yet at the risk of future paycuts embark on "upskill" courses provided and paid for by the taxpayer in order to offset the impending loss of earnings!!!

Professionals 'up skilling' rarely get to do so on taxpayer funding. How many FÁS (or the equivalent) courses are there for qualified accountants specialising into tax, or doctors specialising in a certain area.... fook alll I'd imagine.

stovelid

If the opening post were a person, it would be an aul fella poking an errant teenager in the chest and telling them to "pull your socks up".

This would be followed up with an interminable lecture about "getting on in life" that would no doubt drive you straight up to the attic with a noose or straight down to the nearest shopping precinct to drink and shoplift with your delinquent mates.

And the aul fella would be a fat grandiloquent sort welded into an armchair that farted all the time and winked at you and made a theatrical nose-waving motion when he cut a particularly toxic one.

And he wouldn't have bothered you much after the age of 15 as your ma would have fucked off with you and the other kids by then.

deathrider

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Why didn't they take the opportunity when they had it?

Because they were 16, and when you're 16, you've got the IQ of a glass of water. You think you know everything at that age, but really you know somewhere between **** and all. Everyone makes mistakes, especially when they are younger.

starviewadams

Left school in 5th year to go work on the sites,all my friends had quit the year before me and were pulling in close to a grand a week while I was stuck in a classroom getting shouted at for not knowing some poxy Irish poetry off by heart or for not wearing the right color socks,was delighted getting out on the sites and working and being treated like a person instead of a child.

In hindsight I wish I'd stayed on and went to college,might have a better job now,but I don't think it's fair to penalise a child for making a mistake,at least if someone is on a state sponsored course they're actually trying to better themselves in the hope of getting a better job and not just sitting at home all day watching daytime tv or whatever.

prinz

RedXIV wrote: »

Doesn't feel like free education, you got any idea how much it costs to send a child to school in september? uniforms alone are 200 quid where I am

What about the..

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/social_welfare_payments_to_families_and_children/back_to_school_clothing_and_footwear_allowance.html

(Which btw you can start claiming when your child is 2 for some reason only the DSP knows best).

Not to mention the years collecting the...

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/social_welfare_payments_to_families_and_children/child_benefit.html

FlutterinBantam

stovelid wrote: »

If the opening post were a person, it would be an aul fella poking an errant teenager in the chest and telling them to "pull your socks up".

This would be followed up with an interminable lecture about "getting on in life" that would no doubt drive you straight up to the attic with a noose or straight down to the nearest shopping precinct to drink and shoplift with your delinquent mates.

And the aul fella would be a fat grandiloquent sort welded into an armchair that farted all the time and winked at you and made a theatrical nose-waving motion when he cut a particularly toxic one.

And he wouldn't have bothered you much after the age of 15 as your ma would have fucked off with you and the other kids by then.

Aaah good man yourself.

Instead of addressing to situation, you decide to take a cut at the poster.

You use theatrical language to engrandise yourself with readers, and, in fairness, it may sway a few gimps who see you as some kind of obtuse dude who actually knows something.

Me ,I see you as what you are, afraid to confront the problem and let a light shine on it .

Fine by me, if that's your game, but it ain't reality pal, it really ain't;)

staker

prinz wrote: »

Professionals 'up skilling' rarely get to do so on taxpayer funding. How many FÁS (or the equivalent) courses are there for qualified accountants specialising into tax, or doctors specialising in a certain area.... fook alll I'd imagine.

I was alluding to a different kind of professional,but that's a horse that has been beaten to death these parts already.
In response to your question,none if any!

cruiser178

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

nice quote pal.

Maybe you might address the problem and listen to reality.

Why should the taxpayer pay double for someone who didn't bother with the opportunity in the first place.

People are working the system pal, I'm pissed off paying for them.

You obviously have no idea of reality, What an absolute brain dead op.Just have another quick read again.

stovelid

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Fine by me, if that's your game, but it ain't reality pal, it really ain't;)

I'm not your pal.

And my pocket money is late.

opinion guy

RedXIV wrote: »

Doesn't feel like free education, you got any idea how much it costs to send a child to school in september? uniforms alone are 200 quid where I am

Uniforms have nothing to do with education and should be banned.

RedXIV

prinz wrote: »

What about the..

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/social_welfare_payments_to_families_and_children/back_to_school_clothing_and_footwear_allowance.html

(Which btw you can start claiming when your child is 2 for some reason only the DSP knows best).

Not to mention the years collecting the...

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/social_welfare_payments_to_families_and_children/child_benefit.html

Don't qualify for the first one (I think, I shall look into it later, in which case that could be useful in future)

But the child benefit is the one that reguarly saves us Saved us this month too for school books + uniform.

mickydoomsux

prinz wrote: »

What about the..

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/social_welfare_payments_to_families_and_children/back_to_school_clothing_and_footwear_allowance.html

(Which btw you can start claiming when your child is 2 for some reason only the DSP knows best).

Not to mention the years collecting the...

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/social_welfare_payments_to_families_and_children/child_benefit.html

Indeed, it sickens my ****e to hear people complaining about the expenses of having a kid. You get free money for having the thing for a start. Use that to pay for school stuff.

Also, it was your choice to incur the expense. If i buy a gas guzzling car with solid gold spare parts i have no right to complain when i'm filling it up every day or paying for a new set of sparkplugs.

staker

opinion guy wrote: »

Uniforms have nothing to do with education and should be banned.

You're right,they've nothing at all to do with education!! Great,innit?:pac:

hooradiation

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Aaah good man yourself.

Instead of addressing to situation, you decide to take a cut at the poster.

You use theatrical language to engrandise yourself with readers, and, in fairness, it may sway a few gimps who see you as some kind of obtuse dude who actually knows something.

Me ,I see you as what you are, afraid to confront the problem and let a light shine on it .

Fine by me, if that's your game, but it ain't reality pal, it really ain't;)

Stop whining.

RustyNut

As someone who left school at 15 and have never been out of work I am happy that the state spent our tax on educating our population to help them become happier productive people.
There are a lot of things our government waist money on which are a lot less productive than education. It wasn't unemployed brickies plumbers or labourers that broke the country, they were the ones earning good money paying big tax and are entitled to services from the state.
It's the amount of my money that is given to foreign gamblers that boils my blood.
My €0.02

gcgirl

opinion guy wrote: »

RedXIV wrote: »

Doesn't feel like free education, you got any idea how much it costs to send a child to school in september? uniforms alone are 200 quid where I am

Uniforms have nothing to do with education and should be banned.

Pity the schools dont have that attitude, some schools wont let you in if you dont wear the proper uniform.
Alas 2 of mine dont have that problem Educate Together have no uniforms

Fremen

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Total load of bulldust in my opinion, just another leeching on John Q Taxpayer.

Just about everything is a leech on John Q Public if he doesn't make use of it. For example, I've never been in an ambulance, and on balance of probability, I never will be. Taxes that I pay support ambulance drivers. I could claim that people who have used ambulances are leeching my money.

The point is that this is a form of collective insurance. If I do find myself in a situation where I need an ambulance, there's one there for me. Same goes for many other government services.

The builders' industry went tits up. There but for the grace of god go i. If my industry collapses, I want the chance to get myself out of the hole I'm in. Fas courses provide a means of doing that.

The question you should be asking is: is this safety net worth the money society is paying for it?

I think there's a decent argument in favour of it: it provides a more flexible workforce that can adapt to changing economic conditions. Eventually, the bust will end, and we'll have educated workers waiting for the boom. Better than having no-good dole monkeys that are unprepared for a new job, imho.

Seachmall

starviewadams wrote: »

Left school in 5th year to go work on the sites,all my friends had quit the year before me and were pulling in close to a grand a week while I was stuck in a classroom getting shouted at for not knowing some poxy Irish poetry off by heart or for not wearing the right color socks,was delighted getting out on the sites and working and being treated like a person instead of a child.

Interestingly enough if I had dropped out of school at 17 I'd probably be more qualified and earning more money than I am now. If I had stayed on in college (I dropped out) I would earn less as a graduate in my first year than I'm earning now. In saying that I was fortunate enough to have family in the industry I work in (I'm a programmer) and the job guarantee there so it obviously is a different situation from most. But the point is dropping out of school at an early age is not always a mistake, for some it's a very solid option (although the sudden shift in the economic climate has changed the situation for a lot of people).