Young lad needing advice

dean27

First, let me tell you a little bit about myself. I have not long ago finished the leaving cert and im 18 years old. I was planning on going to third level Education, however I believe my results will not be good enough for the course I want. Instead of repeating I plan on going to Australia in the coming months (on a WHV) in search of a job. I plan on staying there as long as possible (hopefully even get sponsored). Im killing time till I can go to uni as a mature student, although if I get a good job (in time) I may even stay on in Oz.

Basically I have no experience of working, I have no qualifications. I plan on having my full drivers license before going down under, thats it. I would love to get a job in the mines at entry level or whatever, was even considering going over to Perth and spending a few grand on courses to make my skills look better. Although after researching I have discovered even that would not be enough probably. I am pretty much willing to do anything over there be it fruit picking or working as a farm hand. Im not bothered if im in an outback or Bondi beach.

What I was wondering is, what type of jobs should I be looking at? Also , mainly what I wanted to know is, in the next say, 4-5 months max, is there any courses/training I can do here to increase my chances of landing a semi-decent job over there. Any info at all would be appreciated.

Please excuse the long post, its just that I want to research and know as much about it as I possibly can.
Thanking you in advance,
Dean.

CatFromHue

Hi Dean,

I'd wait until the results are out before you make any big decisions. You may get offered your course on the CAO system. For what it's worth I didn't get offered the course I wanted in college, Aero Eng in UL, and I was distraught, I didn't get any second round offers either. I did get in touch with a careers guidance councillor and I was informed that there were places on two Eng courses in Athlone I.T. and one in Carlow I.T. that if I did two years of it would enable me to join the Aero Eng course in second year. I did this and in hindsight it was a great move. I can actually track my career directly back to this.
The reason I'm saying this to you is that I don't know what course you're looking to do but there are other options that may enable you to get to it. Either in a different college or by doing what I did.

Without any skills or education as such I think you'd struggle to get sponsorship as the jobs you would be applying for many Australians would be able to do too. I'm not 100% on the sponsorship scheme but I think is how it works. Without sponsorship the max you could stay in OZ would be two years providing you did a 3 month stint in fruit picking or work in a rural area that enables you to go for a second WHV. If you've never worked before you may find it difficult to get work over there and may only be able to get work in fruit picking or farm work. This has a reputation of being hard work with low pay. I could see it getting very tiresome after a month or two let alone 3 or more months.

My advice would be wait until you get your results/CAO offers and then arrange a meeting with a careers guidance councillor. Australia will still be there in 4 years time!

dean27

Firstly, Thank you for your detailed response. I have made a promise to myself to not jump head first into such a life defining decision without carrying out sufficient research. In just over a weeks time, I hope to know where my temporary future will lie , be it in a third level institute or seeking employment for a few years. I understand that it would be an incredibly tiresome and physically challenging job (working on farm/fruit picking). Especially since i have never held a proper job in my life (lazy, I know). If I don't get a course however, I will seriously need to consider migrating as I live in rural Donegal. Jobs are few and far between outside of the summer season. I dont think I could sit around here on the dole for any real length of time. I need to go and start my life, be it in employment or further education. P.s any suggestions on where would be the best place to settle in for jobs that have been mentioned, I was thinking WA, where hopefully I could keep in the hunt for the ever illusive job in the mines at entry level.

Zambia

This thread is really a week early dont you think?

D

From what I've heard, its easy to get a job in Oz/NZ if you have a third level qualification. If you don't it can be tough, you would probably need to head to western Australia near perth and hope to get a mining job.

That said there was an announcement that NZ are looking for construction workers to help rebuild.

dean27

Perhaps a little pessimistic of myself yes, however I enjoy research and want to be prepared.

well that's no different from anywhere else really, dont expect to get a management position or anything. WA is where I plan on going, particularly to the mining region , although the research I have carried out would suggest that it's near next to impossible to get a job in the mines being an unskilled migrant.
Thanks for all responses.

Ozeire

dean27 wrote: »

First, let me tell you a little bit about myself. I have not long ago finished the leaving cert and im 18 years old. I was planning on going to third level Education, however I believe my results will not be good enough for the course I want. Instead of repeating I plan on going to Australia in the coming months (on a WHV) in search of a job. I plan on staying there as long as possible (hopefully even get sponsored). Im killing time till I can go to uni as a mature student, although if I get a good job (in time) I may even stay on in Oz.

Basically I have no experience of working, I have no qualifications. I plan on having my full drivers license before going down under, thats it. I would love to get a job in the mines at entry level or whatever, was even considering going over to Perth and spending a few grand on courses to make my skills look better. Although after researching I have discovered even that would not be enough probably. I am pretty much willing to do anything over there be it fruit picking or working as a farm hand. Im not bothered if im in an outback or Bondi beach.

What I was wondering is, what type of jobs should I be looking at? Also , mainly what I wanted to know is, in the next say, 4-5 months max, is there any courses/training I can do here to increase my chances of landing a semi-decent job over there. Any info at all would be appreciated.

Please excuse the long post, its just that I want to research and know as much about it as I possibly can.
Thanking you in advance,
Dean.

At your age , education level n lack of work experince you'll find it hard to get a jon here.

People with college n years of experince take a good while to find a job here. Best thing to do if don't have points for college is repeat leaving n get the points you need. Then you can travel n have college to come back to. Taking a year out now will leave you behind everyone.

Your young n plenty time to travel get the education outta the way n then enjoy.

pclancy

If you've got money give it a shot but bring enough cash with you to last as long as possible. Have a return ticket and be prepared to have to come home after a long job search if nothing comes up but fingers crossed you'd get something, especially in a boom area like Perth. Just remember there are LOTS of people emigrating to Aus/NZ right now so any way you can make yourself more employable would be a bonus such as courses or experience somehow. There is a lot of work in Christchurch if you'd give NZ a shot instead of Oz.

dean27

@ozeire , I understand this, however I already repeated a year a few years back, so repeating again is really out of the question. I hope to pass the leaving at least (maths being the only real obstacle).I refuse to do something at college I don't want to do. I look at it as I could be doing that or doing something I dont want to do while making money in a better environment for a few years before going on to third level education as a mature student, which would enable me to do the course I want for a lot cheaper, all be it 5 years Down the line.

@Pclancy, I hope to have around 4000 euro in the bank going over there, only problem is that it is not my own money so I really would be looking to get employed in anything sharpish. I heard fruit picking is always a good fallback, at least to keep me even until I get another job. I'm considering looking into NZ, as well as canada although obviously there is the greatest appeal with Oz, naturally enough. What sort of work is there going around in NZ for unskilled workers ?Farm work, laboring in construction etc ?
Also in regards to courses/training , I was considering doing a forklift course which doesn't take long to do as I heard there is many jobs going in Oz for this, although they probably Want experienced drivers.

mandrake04

Just remember there's always a big difference between what you hear and whats the truth.

pclancy

e4000 would last a while i guess. There's probably just the same type of unskilled work available here as in Oz except on a much smaller scale but hopefully also with less immigrants trying to get the same jobs. In winter theres a bit of ski and tourism work down south, summer theres more farm, fruit picking, tourism sports work further north.

dean27

Mandrake, I suppose it's just a gamble I'll have to take if I wish to go.

@Pclancy, thanks for the info , i will definitely look into NZ. Although unless there is a lot more jobs and better pay available than areas of rural Australia I doubt I'd go. I heard that there is plenty of work available in these areas as many don't want to sacrifice their social life for work.I'm going primarily to work not travel so this would not bother me.

scotty_irish

you say yourself you're going to work not travel, why go all the way to Oz?there's places much closer to home where you could find work and get some very valuable and much needed experience, UK for example, lots of work here or if you're feeling adventurous and like learning a language, mainland Europe could be an option. €4000 will take a long time to pay back working a sh!tty job. You've never had a job and are talking about going down the mines - as with all high paid jobs, especially physical ones, there's a reason why the pay is high. It's dangerous, horrible working conditions and long hours. Australia sounds glamorous and all, but the glamour will be quickly forgotten once reality hits. Also you're probably 18/19, never lived away from home before, never done flat hunting/job hunting etc and you're talking about moving to the other side of the world with possibly no support network?

Sorry to put a big downer on it, but that's the way I see it.

dean27

I completely agree with you, it does seem a very big challenge, however I know many lads my age from here that have went over and never looked back. Well I'm working out now to try get in great physical shape for a job in Oz as I understand many of the jobs I would be looking at getting are physically challenging. It would take to long to learn a language well enough to work competently. Maybe a year and a half minimum. Also I know a few boys who have went over to London for work, although I just can't imagine there being that much work in the UK either unless you have family or contacts. Thanks for your response.

DeVore

You would be a fool if you gave up the chance to go to Uni.

If you want to flip burgers or work a building site for the rest of your life, fine, but dont fool yourself thinking you will go to uni as a mature student, lots of people make that plan but life gets into a rut and they dont want to give up going to the boozer with their mates and suddenly the thought of hitting books and studying for exams seems much less attractive.

Take a year out if you like, I wish I had in fact, but commit to going to college if you can.

Don't feel like 3rd level is goin straight back into "school". Its far far from it. I hated the leaving cert (showing my age now). I never wanted to go back into something like that and it made me think of training to be an actuary but I relented thankfully.

Have fun by all means but you will have a LOT more fun for 50 more years if you spend 3-4 of them in college now.

DeV.

dean27

Don't get me wrong, college/uni is still first choice provided I get the courses I want. This is highly unlikely, so I'm not going to college to do an average course that I have no interest in whatsoever, leaving me stuck doing something I don't want to do for the rest of my life. I think I'd rather take my chances going back as a mature student than doing some average course in an IT. Although who's to say I wont get a course I want, I guess I won't have an idea until tomorrow, although more than likely next week. Thanks for your response.

jank

dean27 wrote: »

@ozeire , I understand this, however I already repeated a year a few years back, so repeating again is really out of the question. I hope to pass the leaving at least (maths being the only real obstacle).I refuse to do something at college I don't want to do. I look at it as I could be doing that or doing something I dont want to do while making money in a better environment for a few years before going on to third level education as a mature student, which would enable me to do the course I want for a lot cheaper, all be it 5 years Down the line.

@Pclancy, I hope to have around 4000 euro in the bank going over there, only problem is that it is not my own money so I really would be looking to get employed in anything sharpish. I heard fruit picking is always a good fallback, at least to keep me even until I get another job. I'm considering looking into NZ, as well as canada although obviously there is the greatest appeal with Oz, naturally enough. What sort of work is there going around in NZ for unskilled workers ?Farm work, laboring in construction etc ?
Also in regards to courses/training , I was considering doing a forklift course which doesn't take long to do as I heard there is many jobs going in Oz for this, although they probably Want experienced drivers.

So you are going to waste 5 years of your life instead of just biting the bullet and repeat the leaving cert? My advise to you is to buck up, repeat the leaving and go to college. Fees are coming back in a few years so you may be able to a few years of it for free. Education is THE best investment you can do for yourself PERIOD! Going back as a mature student is no easy task, my brother did it although he has brains to burn he found it tough.

About going to OZ, well you might get lucky but tbh I would not waste my WHV at such a young age. The grass is not greener over here.

mandrake04

dean27 wrote: »

I completely agree with you, it does seem a very big challenge, however I know many lads my age from here that have went over and never looked back. Well I'm working out now to try get in great physical shape for a job in Oz as I understand many of the jobs I would be looking at getting are physically challenging. It would take to long to learn a language well enough to work competently. Maybe a year and a half minimum. Also I know a few boys who have went over to London for work, although I just can't imagine there being that much work in the UK either unless you have family or contacts. Thanks for your response.

Hi Dean I admire your enthusiasm but reading over this thread there is plenty of good advice on here, a few years ago my young cousin who was then 20 and was already a qualified carpenter wanted to come to Oz with the idea of making the best of it and maybe staying a few years. My advice to him and his mother was that to get the best out of it he should wait for a few years and get more life experience under his belt and keep his WHV for time where maturity would compensate for being more than 10,000 miles away from home.

Sure there are plenty of young lads that went and never looked back but you only hear of the success stories* and you never hear much about those who had to do the walk of shame.

My best advice to anyone considering coming to Australia for anything more serious than a year of casual work assisted holiday or p!ssup. (ie looking to stay)

1. Have some sort of qualification or trade to offset the disadvantage of only having limited work rights.
2. Bring plenty ($5000+) of your own money and not a loan from a mate to make your bank statement look good for immigration. Lack of funds is a main factor in what drives most people to failure.
3. Have at least 4-5 Years experience in your field as along with your qualification or trade ....this is gold.
4. Dont over speculate that Australia is a land of milk & honey and that employers are lining up at the airport just waiting for some Paddy or Biddy to land so they can offer them unbeliveable paying jobs and sponsorship. Nothing could be futher from the truth, you will be competing with young Bruce & Shelia who have more work rights than you and probably have a good dose of Local Experience** as well.
5. Plan to fail, dont get your hopes up that you are going to get sponsored because if it doesnt happen its going ruin the end of your holiday.

* Often a bit over exaggerated I would imagine.
** Local Experience is a term that Australian companies use to describe experience in Australia as they often do not rate overseas experience as being bona fide.

dean27

Thanks for taking the time to type such a detailed response mandrake. All advice/experience/info is more than welcome. I understand that it could be hard to get a job in Oz unskilled, unless you have contacts. Hopefully I will be going over with a mate or 2 that already has family or friends over there. I would try get an apprenticeship here or something although I'm just
scared the work would dry up over there by time I had completed it.

Zambia

dean27 wrote: »

Thanks for taking the time to type such a detailed response mandrake. All advice/experience/info is more than welcome. I understand that it could be hard to get a job in Oz unskilled, unless you have contacts. Hopefully I will be going over with a mate or 2 that already has family or friends over there. I would try get an apprenticeship here or something although I'm just
scared the work would dry up over there by time I had completed it.

Like I said before Dean you are being a bit eager in looking down this route I can not fault any of the advice given so far.

You cant get an apprenticeship because you cant get sponsored to do one.

Its not hard to get an unskilled job, but in your case its going be a terrible one like flipping burgers. I do recall a poster here 2 years ago that was your age and spent his working time here in Maccas.

Do yourself a favour go to college at the age you are now. I was a mature student its sh1t you spend all day working then all your nights & weekends studying. To add insult to injury you see the guys your age(as in you) having the time of their life.

What you should be researching is how to get the course you want if you do not get the pionts. Not how to spend your days lugging site rubbish and end up spending your evenings sitting in a 6X6 room in Port Hedland with a six pack and internet porn. While your classmates are enjoying the time of their life. Basically learning the life skills of drinking properly and learning how to get themselves a root on the weekend.

Believe me in a few years time you will gladly give back every mining cent you earned for those years back.

dean27

Superb post Zambia, had a good little chuckle to myself while reading it. Whilst what you say is absolutely correct, I am only going to college to learn (if and when I do). I have had like 3 years of partying and have experienced everything that everyone will experience in college, I am sick of partying. At the end of the day I may be flipping burgers in Australia, but it can only be better than sitting on the dole in this barren wasteland. As ignorant as I may seem to everyones opinions at times, it's not that I'm determined to go to Oz , it's just that I'm determined not to go to college wasting money and time doing something I don't want to do. I also accept the common view that going to uni as a mature student is not easy as you are out of the swing of things, although I know many people who have furthered their education at a more mature age.the way I see it, if you're not going to college for the partying and experience it doesn't matter if you get your degree when your 22 or 29.

Zambia

What do you want to do?

jackbhoy

I think if you don't want to go to college or don't really know what you want to do then taking a couple of years out to work can be a good option. Everyone seems obsessed with getting a degree asap but how many people do we all know who picked a course and went to college at 17/18 without really knowing what they wanted to do? They end up doing a course they have little interest in and then falling into a career that they don't really like as it's what they are qualified in. Of course some people are lucky and love their course/career but i know many who just get through without taking any real enjoyment from their work. Its amazing how much you mature between 18 and early twenties and you may be able to make a much better informed decision then, not only that but a couple of years in boring job will really motivate you to pick the right course and work hard on it.

If you finish college at say 25, you still have 40+ years (probably a lot more as retirement age will prob be 80 by time you get there ) to build a good career and life for yourself.

Personally I went to college straight out of school, hated the course, drank myself silly for 6 months, went to feck all lectures and then dropped out. I probably wouldve stayed on except for financial problems but I wouldve ended up in a profession I had zero interest in. I worked in a semi skilled job for few years and saved enough to put myself through 4 year degree. This time around I was doing something I really enjoyed and I had worked hard for every cent I saved so I took it seriously, barely missed a lecture and graduated top of my class. I still had great time socially during this period and don't feel I missed out on anything at all.

By the tone of your post I'd say you are unusually mature for your age and have your head well screwed on, if you really want to go back to college in 3 or 4 years then you will, turning it down or not getting in now does not consign you to a career in burger flipping if you want better. Either way, I hope it all works out for you.

dean27

Got my results and they were as bad as expected. I definitely won't get any courses I want now. Migrating is becoming more and more likely.

Oh and Zambia, I would like to do something related to English, specifically journalism.

Zambia

dean27 wrote: »

Got my results and they were as bad as expected. I definitely won't get any courses I want now. Migrating is becoming more and more likely.

Oh and Zambia, I would like to do something related to English, specifically journalism.

Dean mate migrating is really not becoming more of an option. Migrating is a minefield of skills and requirement none of which you have at present. Going to WA for a year or two is not migrating its still just a working holiday.

Now if you want to do this till you 20-21 fair enough but dont kid yourself. You will be doing nothing but spinning your wheels and any money you save will be spent on repaying this loan and flights home.

Knowing what you want to do is a gift several of us never do we just bounce along from job to job. If you really want to go in to journalism them research ways to do that. Either get more pionts or try and get something for a few years in the industry. See a good Career advisor if you can. Use the forums here to research ways to break into journalism or writing. A good place to start is the work and jobs forum.

The whole come to WA as a unskilled 18 year old on a temporary visa and end up earning big bucks is really a flawed plan in my opinion. However if you just want to come to Australia for a few years well as long as you know you are cashing in a big opportunity very early.

Oh and if you sick of partying now ....your doing it wrong.

corkgirl88

dean27,

I am almost sure griffith college in cork and dublin run journalism courses and you do not need points for them.
You should check them out.

Education is so important. IMO, you may regret not going on to further education when you are older and working in a low paying job.

If you don't do it now, the opportunity may not present itself in the future. You have so many years ahead of you to go to Australia.
I would recommend getting some sort of qualification first.

The Sweeper

Ah, a journalism degree...

dean27, if you had applied for degrees in journalism and didn't get a place on them, I'll give you a different perspective - I recommend you do an arts degree in any or all of history, economics, or english literature. Go to all your lectures, and do all your assignments on time. When you finish your three years in arts, do a one-year masters in journalism.

At the end of four years you'll then be both qualified to write, and educated to write about something.

If you like journalism, steer as clear of Australia as it's physically possible to steer. Look to the UK for your work experience. The media here is sensationalist Murdoch-driven rubbish. Accuracy is optional; the big headline is king. It makes me want to weep to see some of the stories the ABC has butchered.

Doc

Why not try applying for a course in England, Scotland or Wales.
They have a lot more options so its not as hard to get in.

I wanted to do Architecture and at the time there were only 2 options for it in Ireland and I didnt get in so I went to England. It was one of the best things I ever could have done. You should really think about doing it.

It is not easy for an unqualified person to stay here for more then the 2 years given under the WHV's. In fact its really difficult. Even qualified people find it difficult to get residency here. If you want 2 years holiday working low paying jobs then come now. If not go to uni.

gabberific

Dean27, The Sweeper is right. The best way to get into Journalism is through a primary degree such as English plus History, Economics or subjects like that. While doing this primary degree, you can work up a portfolio with your college newspaper and then do a Masters or postgrad in Journalism or communications.

Though you say you just want to work your ass off in Oz as a labourer or some such and then return to Uni and become a Journo, do you not think, even though it's apparrent you seem set on your 'migration' no matter what those over here say about it not being the fruitcake it's made out to be, you might be as well, if not better, off even working in some sort of unskilled job at home and helping out, as in volunteering, with your local paper and radio station when you've time off. Experience and cop on in the journalism field are gold. If you have experience on a local level you're far more likely to be considered for jobs as it will seem like you are interested in writing and news-bringing rather than just in having a column in the Times on a Saturday about how amazing you are (an ultimate goal of my own, though it's clearly a million miles away ).

I am not trying to be harsh, just realistic. You're better off spending your years before you go to Uni as a mature student doing something related to your chosen career, if for no other reason than you may realise you don't want to do it at all!

If you do go to Oz, and get a job on the mines, you could write a savage blog from your 6x6 about the trials and tribulations of it all. Just a thought! Never a bad idea to have a blog or two and keep yourself writing if you want to be a journo

Completely agree with you re: the state of journalism here in Oz, The Sweeper, I can't take a third of it seriously.

dean27

Thank you all for your suggestions of alternate routes in to journalism. Unfortunately I don't have arts down on my list of courses. I have law down in my choice of courses, which my guidance teacher is sure would enable me to go on and do a masters in journalism after. From what I heard, law courses consists of a lot of writing, so this would keep me in the swing of things. Also a law degree certainly isn't a bad degree to have. I will just need to wait and see what I get offered tomorrow. If I get offered a half decent course all of you on this forum may have just swayed my impulsive decision to go to Oz

IPushButtons

Zambia wrote: »

This thread is really a week early dont you think?

Agreed no point planning for Aussie when you don't know if you got the offer you wanted

gabberific

dean27 wrote: »

Unfortunately I don't have arts down on my list of courses. I have law down in my choice of courses, which my guidance teacher is sure would enable me to go on and do a masters in journalism after. From what I heard, law courses consists of a lot of writing, so this would keep me in the swing of things. Also a law degree certainly isn't a bad degree to have.

Too true that a Law degree isn't a bad one to have, and for journalism it's a good basis. That said, there's more writing in an English one. Maybe if you don't get Law, and you decide to reapply with the same points next year, you could consider an Arts course knowing that you can get into an MA in Journalism with it too. In some Unis in Ireland you can do Legal Science (Galway anyway) as part of Arts which you could combine with English if you're hard set on the whole Law/ Journalism route.

Good luck with the offers, and remember there are many more ways into your chosen career than you may have initially realised

dean27

Thanks all for your advice and support. So it looks like I will be doing law for the next few years. Who knows, maybe the land down under will still be a possibility in a few years time. Saying that, not too sure If the demand for law degrees is any greater in Oz than anywhere else.

corkgirl88

Congrats Dean27, I did law in college and it is a great course. Should be helpful if you decide to pursue journalism.

Zambia

Good man Dean.

No real demand here for any Degree here. Australia imports skills which is more a mix of Degree/Qualifications and experience.

So they look for Barristers as opposed to people with Law degrees.
Skills list for Migration , note there are state sponsored lists as well.
http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/_pdf/sol-schedule1.pdf