Jealous Single Virgin

Shill

Hi there.

I am hoping someone could perhaps offer me any advice on this. I am a man, 25, and I have never been in a relationship, or shared any sort of intimacy with a woman.

Perhaps I wouldn't be as bothered about this if I had friends of the opposite sex. It seems crazy to be here for 25 years, and barely have any sort of interaction with women of a similar age to me. Older women in their 40's, 50's and 60's often aknowledge me. But I feel completely shut off from women my own age.

Older women tend to make eye contact as I walk by, prompting a simple "Hello", or "How are you?". Women my age, however, never make eye contact. There never seems to be an opportunity for the simple interactions that seem so easy with older women.

I can be stood with a friend at work, and women in their 20's and 30's often come over and start chat to whoever I am with, and I am ignored. It's as if I am not even there. It happens so much now that I often feel very jealous, and have to walk away and leave them chatting.

I just want a bit of female attention, and it hurts to constantly get none. Why is it that some men are magnets to women, yet there are the few, like me, that seem to be invisible to them?

I feel the guy I was at 20 deserved a girlfriend, but now I am not so sure. I hate the fact I feel bitter and jealous, especially of my 2 male colleagues (who I consider to be good friends). I honestly feel I am going mad, and I worry I am going to grow resentful towards women. Oftentimes I think about suicide.

Anytime I see a couple, or every time a girl looks straight through me, I feel a knot in my throat. What's going on here?

coolcat63

What can you offer women (of any age)? Conversation, shared interests, hobbies, work, fun? Stop seeing women as the enemy but as people, just like you. If you're shy about chatting in person you could try dating or social sites but be warned that the former is very much a numbers game and if you are sensitive about (perceived) rejection it may not be for you.

karaokeman

OP have you tried any of the usual suggestions for meeting and getting to talk to women?

Common suggestions are join a sporting club, walking club, singing choir or anything where you can socialise with other people.

Have you noticed the way other men interact with women? It might be an idea to copy the way they talk to and make conversations with women. Don't worry about them thinking your plagiarizing them because everyone acts the way they do anyway.

Certainly don't consider suicide but if its getting to you that much would you consider seeing a psychologist. There's really no point feeling bad for yourself and trying to punish yourself for it. Be open and talk about your worries with others. Thats what they are paid to do and they may just help.

IrishEyes19

Hiya, OP,

First of all the good news is your very young. 25 is not old, so its not game over by any means. Second, have you considered maybe that your fear and feelings of being looked over are coming across.

Im only saying this because I in the past had a painful breakup that left me reeling, so much that I was terrified and slightly serious going back into the dating world, and that came across in my face ect when I went out. I was constantly being told to ease up, or relax by guys when we got talking, or lighten up, and it hurt as I was always naturally a happy, easy going person.

Once I got control of that, and enjoyed nights out and chatting to people for the sake of chatting and not worriyng if he only wanted one thing, or whether he thought I was talking too much, ect, once I rid myself of those worries, not only did I find I enjoyed the company more, but I also enjoyed the night more and liked myself more.

Also, out of interest have you ever approached women, you talk about women looking through you or chatting your friend up, but even though we live in a liberated society where both sexes can freely chat ask each other out, it is still a given that women are asked out by men and a lot of women follow that; NOT ALL i will add. But some do.

So why not attempt to ask someone out, you have to lose some to win some and its all experience.
So put aside the jealously and the inexperience, everyone has to start somewhere, thats a fact. Just get out there and give it a shot. Peoples worst enemies are often themselves. Best of luck now

Alopex

read 'the game'

Shill

OP have you tried any of the usual suggestions for meeting and getting to talk to women?
Common suggestions are join a sporting club, walking club, singing choir or anything where you can socialise with other people.

I have not, no. These are great ideas. I've thought about joining a walking club, as I really do enjoy being outdoors.

It is very hard for me to chat to people; women and men. I always end up going blank and not really knowing what to say, or slipping and saying something that doesn't make sense. I think I feel intimidated. I find I am a little mistrustful of people because I've been picked on in the past. Why? Because I am quiet and don't mingle, I suppose. I don't think I am the typical 'lad', ie. football-loving, going out drinking on a friday, etc.

At the moment, I feel like I am in a rut. I've lived a life where I've not really tried to mix with people, and I guess that's lead me to here. Unfortunately, I've no real friends who I can go out with - obviously that would help a great deal in meeting new people.

Also, out of interest have you ever approached women, you talk about women looking through you or chatting your friend up, but even though we live in a liberated society where both sexes can freely chat ask each other out, it is still a given that women are asked out by men and a lot of women follow that; NOT ALL i will add. But some do.

I haven't. I feel that if I was going to do that, I'd have to get to know them first. I do not work with women directly in the workplace, however, despite there being many working on other departments. After work I go home, and that's where I stay 'till work the next day! And the process repeats.

If I was working with women, I guess I'd get to know a them, and they'd get to know me, and it'd go from there.

And yes, perhaps my lack of confidence does come through on my face. If it does, I do not know it, though. I try to look confident, and to smile.

Sorry to hear about your breakup, by the way.

What can you offer women (of any age)? Conversation, shared interests, hobbies, work, fun?

I have a couple of hobbies - drawing, walking, and recently I've took up the keyboard. But I truly don't know what I can offer exactly, as I have never really had many chances to have a good chat with a woman. I don't know whether they would find me fun to be around or not. But again, I find it very hard to keep conversation going. Won't that put off most people?

read 'the game

Perhaps for a laugh. I don't like the idea of reeling off lines from a book, though. That wouldn't really be me - the guy who wrote the book may as well be talking for me!;)

Thanks for your help everyone.

Maple

Alopex wrote: »

read 'the game'

As per the charter discussion of PUA methods and techniques are not allowed.

Maple

Distorted

From your postings, it sounds like you are expecting women to come up and talk to you and ask you out, without you doing much on your part. I don't think this happens very often. Personally speaking, I'd feel very intimidated as a woman, to go and start chatting up a guy I'd never spoken to before.

You also sound a bit obsessed about women's ages! Can you not just get practised in chatting to women, as you would men, as equal members of the human race and take it from there? ie get to know some women, rather than standing back passively and expecting them to ask you out?

Even though its still generally assumed that men do most of the asking out, you are generally "advised" as a woman that in order to be approached, you have to be chatty and friendly.

You need to work on your socialisation skills, rather than resenting people.

Shill

I don't resent people at all. I am scared to death of ending up that way. What could be more awful than ending up a sad, lonely, resentful hermit?

I mention ages because I feel like a total alien in my age group. A friend at work calls me 'unique'. What is that supposed to mean?

I know what I've got to do. I've got to get out there and put myself in social situations. But I feel like I've backed myself into a corner. I really do dislike the person I am. Even if I do become truly happy, I will always remember this - it will be like a huge scar. A smear on my personality. Jealousy and feelings of inferiority are very uncomfortable - they chip away at your sense of self worth.

I will have to try. However, it's obvious I am going to have to make these efforts completely outside of work, and on my own.

Shill

Thankyou. I will give it a try!

Scrappychimow

[HTML]What can you offer women (of any age)[/HTML]

Shill wrote: »

I have a couple of hobbies - drawing,

Women don't like men who draw the Dole, do you draw the Dole?

Scrappychimow

sunflower27 wrote: »

A useful tip if you feel your mind going blank when talking to someone is ask them something about themselves. Most people will happily waffle on about themselves or their theories on things given half the chance.

Try it and see...

This is the best advice, in particular mention Einsteins theory of relativity, girls love that!

LegacyUser

Who is this Scrappychimow guy?
Weird responses there dude whoever you are...

To the OP, this is my advice:
Do things for yourself to heighten your own self esteem first before you try certain tactics like copying how other guys behave.
I know from experience that you will only feel worse and worse if you keep trying to get attention or trying to interact in certain ways with other people before you are more comfortable in your own skin.
Any small thing that you perceive to be a slip up or a rejection will send you spiralling again.
Look after YOURSELF first. This is the best advice anyone can give, trust me!!
Join some clubs, or classes, and do things you can feel proud of and eventually talk to other people about.
Think about the people you respect, imagine someone you would respect a lot in life (minus anything to do with women) and take a look at that person in your minds eye...
What do they do with their time, what have they achieved?
And then try and work towards some of that stuff so that you start liking YOURSELF more, other people come second OP.
Like yourself, and then everything else will run more smoothly for you
You will have more confidence, more things to talk about, you'll be less self-conscious, and you will care less who talks to you and who doesnt, and that will help!!

lace

Hi OP!

First off - you seem to view women as some kind of stuck-up exotic creatures who only pick and choose charismatic and charming men. Sure some women like jack-the-lad type guys but a lot of women find chat-up lines and "charm" a bit of a turn off. There are plenty of women who are more into quiet, intelligent, interesting guys!

You say you sometimes feel invisible to them but you may be making yourself seem surly or stand-offish. You mention that you find talking to women a little intimidating but you may be closing off a lot of possibilities for conversation to yourself by seeming as though you're not up for a chat. Being open and friendly is important as lots of women (not all) will often wait for the man to initiate conversation.

Next time you're in a situation where a woman comes over to chat in a group try to breathe deeply and relax, keeping your body language open and looking interested and friendly. If you've not met the woman before try introducing yourself. Something like "Hi, I'm _____, I work in _____ (department) with _____ (guy she knows and has come over to talk to). You work in _____ (department she's in), don't you?" will do. Accompanied by a nice smile, of course

As other posters have said - getting out and socializing is definitely the way to go. A local walking club or art class would give you a chance to mix with lots of people and hone your interpersonal skills. Go out there with the goal of making friends and getting to know people rather than finding a girlfriend. If you meet a girl you like it will be an added bonus. Something like walking in particular would be great as exercise will get you fit, release feel-good chemicals and make you feel healthy and better about yourself.

Improving your outlook and your self image is the most important thing here. Once you feel more confident and in touch with others you'll be able to progress to a relationship. Perhaps talking to a professional would help you to work past your previous experiences and negative feelings?

Maple

Scrappychimow wrote: »

[HTML]What can you offer women (of any age)[/HTML]


Women don't like men who draw the Dole, do you draw the Dole?

Scrappychimow wrote: »

This is the best advice, in particular mention Einsteins theory of relativity, girls love that!

Banned for muppetry.

Maple

LegacyUser

Hey OP, sorry to hear you feel like this. I have to say though that it sounds like you think everyone else is very confident, chats easily and has no worries...not true!!! All of us are putting on an act in one way or another. That's lesson number 1!

I really believe people treat you the way you treat yourself if you get me. If you believe that you're shy/awkward/boring/whatever then other people will presume you are. If you stand there resentfully seething while someone talks to your friend then they'll get the vibes off you and start avoiding you. WHo wants to talk to someone with an angry look on their face? There is a guy I see around my estate and he puts his head down everytime and sort of angrily stalks past me when I just want to say hello so guess what..I don't bother now..which may reinforce his belief that no one wants to say hello to him! (not that I'm saying he fancies me, other people say the same thing about him). However if you ease up on yourself, start liking yourself and smiling a bit more while not expecting instant results then you may just see a big change in your life.

Believe it and it will be so!! Good luck!

Shill

Thankyou again for the friendly advice everyone. I'll definately try and take it onboard. I have very limited experience of chatting to people I don't know - as a result I tense up and feel like I am going to say something stupid.

Having more experience may put me at ease, and allow me to feel relaxed and confident in those situations. I mean, if you know people generally warm to you, then you'll feel that way about every new person you meet.

Joining an art class or a walking group sounds appealing - it's just whether I can give myself the kick up the arse to do it!

And I might bring up Einstein's Theory of Relativity in conversation, too.:P But I may have to brush up on my science before I try to make myself look clever!

Baked.noodle

All this resentment and fear is getting in the way. I imagine you come across as very uncomfortable. You should speak with a councillor about your feelings. In your 25 years you have meet interested women and I would guess you have pushed them away. I can understand that you are interested in meeting women your own age but there’s no harm in talking with a women who is older. It would be a great way to start getting used to women’s company. Develop new interests as it will keep your mind off this stuff and give you an opportunity to meet and learn with other women. Speak to a professional about your suicidal thoughts. If you make an effort to change you will.

LegacyUser

I know it's frustrating OP but try not to lose hope. You sound quite down about things. I don't know if you should speak to a professional, but if you are having thoughts of suicide, it definitely might be a good idea to talk to your GP. They would be able to refer you to someone appropriate I imagine. I know myself a while back I felt like I suffered from depression and things seemed to be bleak. I too was having issues with women, my main issue being that nothing was happening. Although there were other things in my life at the time that were really getting to me too.

I think you said you are 25. That is still fairly young.

I didn't kiss a girl for the first time until I was either 20 or 21. Honest truth. I was going out before then but nothing ever happened. I never approached girls, they never approached me. I felt invisible.

I was 25 and still a virgin and drunkenly had sex with a hooker when I was abroad on holiday. I regretted doing it and regretted losing my virginity that way and I beat myself up over it for years, however I'm finally past it now.

Even after that, nothing happened with girls. About once every 6 months I might get some glimmer of interest from a girl but it usually got snuffed out pretty quickly as I never knew what to do and would be completely frozen. Not so much with fear, just a case of "erm, what do I do now?" I hadn't a clue.

Cut to me being 32 and I still hadn't kissed a girl since that first time when I was 20/21. It was depressing.

I had been on internet dating sites and had no real luck then I met this girl on one at the start of 2010. We met up, had a good night and ended up seeing each other for a little while.

As good as it was to meet her, it was such a relief to get the pressure off my back to finally hook up with someone. I always felt this huge weight of pressure as my family never heard me talk about girls and I never brought one home. The same with my mates.

But meeting that girl definitely helped me move along and I've met a few girls since then, mostly through internet dating. I haven't quite worked out how to chat someone up and move things along if I just meet them in public. I guess the thing with internet dating is that you know they're single and that's why everyone is there. But in public you're not sure so you don't want to make a fool of yourself or end up wasting time chasing someone who's not interested/not available.

Next time you are in a group and some girls are there, pick one off and just say something to her to strike up a conversation. I've kind of come to realise that girls are just like guys to a certain extent, so treat them the same. Don't put them on a pedestal, just talk to them about whatever. Although I often try to have something smart or witty to say to start the conversation off. It doesn't have to be something side side-splittingly funny, but it can just be some amusing comment about something. Like if everyone is the group is talking about the bad weather and complaining about it, you could say "I don't know what everyone is complaining about, there's nothing I love more than getting drenched and needing to change clothes 4 times a day".

Ok, that might not be very funny, but it's just an example and hopefully you see what I mean. Just treat them like normal people as that's what they are. There are some nutters out there others who aren't worth your time, but most of them are grand.

It's not that hard really. I'm not the most social guy myself I have to admit but I often do force myself to say hello to people. Like if I meeting someone in the lift in my building, nine times out of ten I will usually say hello and quite often I will just say something, perhaps about the weather or whatever. It doesn't have to be anything earth shattering, just any oul comment. I have to admit I often don't bother making this effort if it's just a guy, but if it's a girl, I'll usually just say something. Nothing ever happens but I feel it's a good habit for me to get into and if nothing else, it allows you to have something to talk about the next time you see them.

Hope things pick-up OP.

Neyite

OP there is an old book called "how to win friends and influence people" by Dale Carnagie first published in 1936, which was a bestseller and continues to be reprinted due to its popularity. Its worth picking up a copy.

It focuses (from what I can remember reading some years ago) on meeting people, and coming across in a positive light to them. It has a lot of information about making a good impression with people you have just met.

Shill

Thankyou again for your replies. They are all very helpful, and I am reassured slightly that others have been in a situation like me.

I probably do come across as awkward and uncomfortable. All I really want is to be comfortable in my own skin, and happy being single. Then I could devote my energy into something worthwhile and positive. Unfortunately I am neither of those things.

I don't know about speaking to a professional about my feelings. They're incredibly private, and I don't like the thought of revealing all my weaknesses to somebody face to face. The anonymity of the internet is an entirely different matter.

As good as it was to meet her, it was such a relief to get the pressure off my back to finally hook up with someone. I always felt this huge weight of pressure as my family never heard me talk about girls and I never brought one home. The same with my mates.

Yes, this is also what I want. I want that weight on my shoulders gone too. I also do not speak to my parents or friends about women. My brother has a girlfriend, but never brings up the fact that I am still single. I wonder if he thinks I'd be embarassed to talk about it? My friends thought I was gay for a couple of years, but only mentioned it when I showed a clear interest in women. I have no idea what my Mum and Dad think. Do I really care? All I wish for is to be happy. That happyness for me, I feel, would come from finally making a meaningful connection with a woman. Even as just a good friend.

Perhaps it won't make me happy. I can't know without experiencing that 'connection', though. It feels like I am stuck in a limbo - like I can't move forwards with my life. I am, essentially, at the same stage in my life that I was in 10 years ago. I should be wise, confident, and assertive at my age, but instead I feel like the essential life experience and social skills I should've picked up - especially over the last 8 years or so - have passed me by.

I honestly feel like I've failed. At least going by the standards society likes to place on us all.

OP there is an old book called "how to win friends and influence people" by Dale Carnagie first published in 1936, which was a bestseller and continues to be reprinted due to its popularity. Its worth picking up a copy.

Thanks, I will look into it. Seems there are a lot of books dealing with this problem!