ICBF herd plus beef

bob charles

I have been asked to take part, is there much involved, mostly a finishing enterprise. im busy enough without any extra work:( Maybe the info is of much benefit to the the suckler producer

bob charles

For any of the users on herd plus, may I ask a question -
If I buy animals of a farmer registered for Herd plus, when I slaughter the animals what particulars is the farmer privy to, ie slaughter date, weight, grade, price?

blue5000

Hi Bob I think all the breeder of the cattle might see is an average cw and grade, open to correction though, pm sent

Min

If you sell an animal you will not get any further information on the animal, the only information you will have is the information you already had from ICBF.
The only information the buyer will have on ICBF is the star rating and the breeding information of the animal, there are no privacy issues for either buyer or seller.

massey 133

the breeder will get slaughter weigh,grade,fat score and slaughter ages. they give the breeder a yearly report on how the animal performs after the breeder sells it.

LivInt20

bob charles wrote: »

I have been asked to take part, is there much involved, mostly a finishing enterprise. im busy enough without any extra work:( Maybe the info is of much benefit to the the suckler producer

There would be very little extra work involved.

Most of the info would be supplied by the factories to ICBF and you would receive the reports.

Well worth it in my opinion.

LivInt20

bob charles wrote: »

For any of the users on herd plus, may I ask a question -
If I buy animals of a farmer registered for Herd plus, when I slaughter the animals what particulars is the farmer privy to, ie slaughter date, weight, grade, price?

The breeder will get details of how an animal performed.

Age at slaughter, carcass weight and grade. Price is not supplied.

bob charles

LivInt20 wrote: »

The breeder will get details of how an animal performed.

Age at slaughter, carcass weight and grade. Price is not supplied.

Even after the animal has being sold? If this is the case is there not privacy infringement on the person that buys the animal and subsequently slaughters it. In my eyes if the system is, as has being outlined above there are data protection issues.

LivInt20

bob charles wrote: »

Even after the animal has being sold? If this is the case is there not privacy infringement on the person that buys the animal and subsequently slaughters it. In my eyes if the system is, as has being outlined above there are data protection issues.

No data protection issues. Details of the buyer or subsequent person who slaughters the animal not known. Data protection only applies to personal details not the fat score of an animal.

bob charles

LivInt20 wrote: »

No data protection issues. Details of the buyer or subsequent person who slaughters the animal not known. Data protection only applies to personal details not the fat score of an animal.

But sure most of the time the seller knows who the buyer of the animals is anyway (either bought privately, or through the local marts) and they would know when I buy there animals I will be taking them all the way for slaughter. If I decide to slaughter the animal after only one day or decide to keep for one year and what the final weight of the animal is my own business.

LivInt20

bob charles wrote: »

But sure most of the time the seller knows who the buyer of the animals is anyway (either bought privately, or through the local marts) and they would know when I buy there animals I will be taking them all the way for slaughter. If I decide to slaughter the animal after only one day or decide to keep for one year and what the final weight of the animal is my own business.

I would disagree that most of the time the seller knows the buyer.

If you want suckler farmers to improve the quality of livestock being produced, then the ICBF info and reports is vital.

What difference does it make to you if the breeder knows what the carcass weight of an animal is.

blue5000

LivInt20 wrote: »

The breeder will get details of how an animal performed.

Age at slaughter, carcass weight and grade. Price is not supplied.

Are you 100% sure about this?

LivInt20

blue5000 wrote: »

Are you 100% sure about this?

Will only get the info on progeny of cows still in the herd, and only if the factory sent the info to ICBF. It's a report on the performance of cow, not the individual progeny.

bob charles

LivInt20 wrote: »

What difference does it make to you if the breeder knows what the carcass weight of an animal is.

so you think its right that the breeder know the finishers margin for the amount of days that animal is in the herd. IMO how much the breeder makes on raising animals is none of my business. I can see such information leading to allot of problems especially where allot of animals are bought on the land privately and in small marts where most buyers and sellers know each other. The reason I have asked this question as I know of major dispute relating to such info being available.

If someone could post a example sheet of what info is available to the breeder that sold the animals which is available post slaughter it would clear up allot of my confusion.

Min

massey 133 wrote: »

the breeder will get slaughter weigh,grade,fat score and slaughter ages. they give the breeder a yearly report on how the animal performs after the breeder sells it.

I will have to look again.

LivInt20

bob charles wrote: »

so you think its right that the breeder know the finishers margin for the amount of days that animal is in the herd. I can see such information leading to allot of problems especially where allot of animals are bought on the land privately and in small marts where most buyers and sellers know each other. The reason I have asked this question as I know of major dispute relating to such info being available.

The breeder will not know the finishers margin, too many variables to take into account. No financial data is provided. Only the financial data can give a finishers margin.

The variables
1. Killout %
2. Feed levels
3. Food conversion efficiency
4. Days on finishers farm
5. Variable costs, eg Vet, transport, vaccines, feed, fert, etc. etc.

I will stress that no financial data is available.

bob charles

LivInt20 wrote: »

The breeder will not know the finishers margin, too many variables to take into account. No financial data is provided. Only the financial data can give a finishers margin.

The variables
1. Killout %
2. Feed levels
3. Food conversion efficiency
4. Days on finishers farm
5. Variable costs, eg Vet, transport, vaccines, feed, fert, etc. etc.

I will stress that no financial data is available.

on the sheet I have being given by a colleague it shows -

-age of animal at slaughter (easy work out how long the finisher keep the animal with this)
-carcass grade and fat score
-carcass weight-
-factory price (which says calculated on the average factory price received for these slaughtered animal in the period)

The sheet is for a single animal.

Say if the animal was sold at a fat stock show and sale it would be very easy for the breeder to calculate the kill out% if the animal was slaughter pretty quickly. the danger in my eyes is that people will take a simplistic view on what the finishers cost may be and there is a good chance they are way out

blue5000

Imagine what would happen if all us breeders realize that there is a fortune to be made out of finishing cattle?

bob charles

blue5000 wrote: »

Imagine what would happen if all us breeders realize that there is a fortune to be made out of finishing cattle?

scary to think, weather is lovely here in the Villa located in the Spanish hills

blue5000

bob charles wrote: »

scary to think, weather is lovely here in the Villa located in the Spanish hills

Ah bob, don't tell me you spent easter in eggxile with poor pee flynn?

tomieen jones

bob charles wrote: »

so you think its right that the breeder know the finishers margin for the amount of days that animal is in the herd. IMO how much the breeder makes on raising animals is none of my business. I can see such information leading to allot of problems especially where allot of animals are bought on the land privately and in small marts where most buyers and sellers know each other. The reason I have asked this question as I know of major dispute relating to such info being available.

If someone could post a example sheet of what info is available to the breeder that sold the animals which is available post slaughter it would clear up allot of my confusion.

But sure your buying the animal you know the price the breeder gets !!!! The finisher knows the breeders margin if this is your view ! Bet you would like to know the factories margin on your finished cattle tho? Am I right?

huey1975

Don't worry about it TJ!!
Bob is long gone and I for one don't miss him!! I always found him to be very condescending in his posts, and on the beef price tracker thread I don't think he ever told us what he was getting.

patsy_mccabe

huey1975 wrote: »

Don't worry about it TJ!!
Bob is long gone and I for one don't miss him!! I always found him to be very condescending in his posts, and on the beef price tracker thread I don't think he ever told us what he was getting.

BOB is that you?

huey1975

No. But if anyone comes close, it has to be Willfarman