Cavity foam insulation v bead insulation

Anthonyk2010

Who would be best qualifiied to tell me which is better, foam or beads

What type of engineer would know or has anyone here an opinion on them

Could anyone recommend a company that does cavity foam insulation.

BryanF

an engineer deals with structure, an architectural technician deals with the technical aspects of construction and materials, from what you have said you need the latter.

there are threads here on boards that will outline the optimum specification for wall cavity's. I have yet to see a 'foam' product that has the correct certs or performance criteria for a cavity. imho look a the major bead suppliers, particularly ones that you recognise as having been in Ireland the longest.

then choose an installer that offers you the satisfactory guarantees, has the correct insurances and imho is willing to back up there installation by providing thermal imaging of there product installed.

if you give your general location I'm sure some here can PM their preferred installers details

Anthonyk2010

BryanF wrote: »

an engineer deals with structure, an architectural technician deals with the technical aspects of construction and materials, from what you have said you need the latter.

there are threads here on boards that will outline the optimum specification for wall cavity's. I have yet to see a 'foam' product that has the correct certs or performance criteria for a cavity. imho look a the major bead suppliers, particularly ones that you recognise as having been in Ireland the longest.

then choose an installer that offers you the satisfactory guarantees, has the correct insurances and imho is willing to back up there installation by providing thermal imaging of there product installed.

if you give your general location I'm sure some here can PM their preferred installers details

Thanks for you help Bryan.

You mention Certs what should I be looking for?

BryanF

Anthonyk2010 wrote: »

Thanks for you help Bryan.

You mention Certs what should I be looking for?

http://www.nsai.ie/Our-Services/Certification/Agrement-Certification/Search-Agrements-Certificates.aspx or BBA (the equivalent British cert)

BUT don't just accept them as they are on paper (as everyone will/should have this)... what i mean here is, Unlessyour willing to hire an Arch Tech you need to read the cert, understand it and ensure that the installation is followed completely as outlined in the cert.

beyondpassive

What's Cavity Foam?

Anthonyk2010

beyondpassive wrote: »

What's Cavity Foam?

Type of expanding foam pumped into the cavity instead of the beads most people pump in.

Anthonyk2010

BryanF wrote: »

Anthonyk2010 wrote: »

Thanks for you help Bryan.

You mention Certs what should I be looking for?

http://www.nsai.ie/Our-Services/Certification/Agrement-Certification/Search-Agrements-Certificates.aspx or BBA (the equivalent British cert)

BUT don't just accept them as they are on paper (as everyone will/should have this)... what i mean here is, Unlessyour willing to hire an Arch Tech you need to read the cert, understand it and ensure that the installation is followed completely as outlined in the cert.

What the company's who sell foam( one company uses both bead and foam) are telling me is that because I already have 65 mm of insulation in my cavity I have only 35mm to fill and unless the block layer put the insulation in perfectly all over around the Walls there are going to be places where the beads won't flow.

There selling point is that the foam pressure will be forced past any blockages in the cavity caused by incorrectly installed insulation giving 100% cavity fill.

Having worked with a few blocklayers I understand there point but not sure if the bead will give 100% cavity fill.

It hard for any system to prove they give 100% cavity fill.

The Certs is something I did not think of and will educate myself on.

sydthebeat

firstly, the NSAI certificate for the beads recommends / requires that you have aminimum of 50mm cavity left to fill. They will not stan over teh performance of a 35mm cavity pumped.

secondly, as far as i understand (unless a certificate has been obtained very recently) , there is NO certificate for pumping expanded foam into a block cavity wall... so dont even entertain that idea....

beyondpassive

Anthonyk2010 wrote: »

It hard for any system to prove they give 100% cavity fill.

Thermal imagine and checking the counter on the flow gauge of the bead supply pump can help.

fclauson

Mods : hope its ok posting a link

http://www.****************.php

this seems to be the spray foam products which are being spoken about.

also
http://www.****************.php

edit:

no need to post links, theres more than one company out there flogging this product
just refer to its as 'spray foam' insulation

sydthebeat

Anthonyk2010

fclauson wrote: »

Mods : hope its ok posting a link



this seems to be the spray foam products which are being spoken about.

also

Thanks fc, have u used these guys ? What the differance between a R-value and a U- value ?

sydthebeat

Anthonyk2010 wrote: »

Thanks fc, have u used these guys ? What the differance between a R-value and a U- value ?

ok, heres some housekeeping

1. the use of any material which does not have a recognised certificate of performance must be ignored when it comes to building regulations.

2. any product that does not have IAB, BBA or similar european quality certificate must be ignored from a BER point of view.

3. its up to the BER assessor / building reg certifier to accept cert of performance, and more often than not, they will be extremely conservative.


so, why would you fork out your hard-earned on a product that may add no resale value to a dwelling or worse, cause you to spend more to 'double up' on the material????

Anthonyk2010

sydthebeat wrote: »

ok, heres some housekeeping

1. the use of any material which does not have a recognised certificate of performance must be ignored when it comes to building regulations.

2. any product that does not have IAB, BBA or similar european quality certificate must be ignored from a BER point of view.

3. its up to the BER assessor / building reg certifier to accept cert of performance, and more often than not, they will be extremely conservative.


so, why would you fork out your hard-earned on a product that may add no resale value to a dwelling or worse, cause you to spend more to 'double up' on the material????

Ok i understand what your saying.

Beads are out because cert does not cover anything less then a 50 mm cavity.

Foam out because no cert at all.

What are my options?

Family house on family site resale would not be an option under normal circumstances.

sydthebeat

well firstly identify what the problem is?

do you feel your house is colder than others of the same age? is it costing you a fortune to heat? if so, they try to figure out why.

have you looked at air leakage?
how good are your windows?
have you looked at putting in a more efficient boiler?
have you upgraded your attic insulation?

you say you already have 65mm in your cavity... assuming thats the yellow foam type, then thats standard insulation up to about this year.

if theres no cert to cover a 35mm cavity then theres a reason for this.

Anthonyk2010

sydthebeat wrote: »

well firstly identify what the problem is?

do you feel your house is colder than others of the same age? is it costing you a fortune to heat? if so, they try to figure out why.

have you looked at air leakage?
how good are your windows?
have you looked at putting in a more efficient boiler?
have you upgraded your attic insulation?

you say you already have 65mm in your cavity... assuming thats the yellow foam type, then thats standard insulation up to about this year.

if theres no cert to cover a 35mm cavity then theres a reason for this.

Thanks i'll have a look at those.

Anthonyk2010

What about a british standard cert. rep rang me a today and i asked him about there certs , he said they had B.S. certs.

sydthebeat

Anthonyk2010 wrote: »

What about a british standard cert. rep rang me a today and i asked him about there certs , he said they had B.S. certs.

No.

The British standards are the standards that products are tested to. However, there may be many BS's to be tested... ie windows have about 20 BS's to be tested to. He may have BS's to show testing to determine hygroscopicity, thermal properties, fire resistance etc..... but he needs a certificate showing that the product is fit for purpose AS A WHOLE.

If he has a BBA cert, then thats a different thing. Thats an agrement certificate, much the same as our IAB certificate.

This shouldnt be the first time hes been asked for this.

Simply tell him that if theres no BBA or IAB cert, then your BER assessor has to ignore it and it will fail building regulations!!

Anthonyk2010

sydthebeat wrote: »

No.

The British standards are the standards that products are tested to. However, there may be many BS's to be tested... ie windows have about 20 BS's to be tested to. He may have BS's to show testing to determine hygroscopicity, thermal properties, fire resistance etc..... but he needs a certificate showing that the product is fit for purpose AS A WHOLE.

If he has a BBA cert, then thats a different thing. Thats an agrement certificate, much the same as our IAB certificate.

This shouldnt be the first time hes been asked for this.

Simply tell him that if theres no BBA or IAB cert, then your BER assessor has to ignore it and it will fail building regulations!!

Ok thanks, his bead has IAB cert but foam only B.S.