Who believes in dyslexia?

howdyya

Do you believe in dyslexia?

How are you diagnosed with dyslexia and not poor literacy?

Personally I believe there is a form of dyslexia but far too many people are claiming that they have it or their children have it just to excuse their poor literacy.

byhookorbycrook

Ok, I'll bite.

Dyslexia can only be diagnosed by an educational psychologist.There must be a discrepancy between verbal and performance IQ, so a child with a low overall IQ cannot be said to have dyslexia. By the way, I am a learning support teacher,so I do know what I am talking about.

howdyya

Yes but you're not answering the question, what is the difference in poor literacy and dyslexia?
Lets try a hypothetical situation.
Someone has an above average IQ but was never taught how to read or write, they will obviously have a terrible verbal IQ as a result of their lack of literacy skills.

So just because there is a discrepancy between the two you start to think its dyslexia instead of bad literacy?

Morag

A child with poor literacy can be taught to read and spell words properly, child with dyslexia can not be taught that in the same way and in some cases they will always read or write/spell words 'wrongly' due to the condition.

You need to learn more about what dyslexia is and how it effects people.

Magic Beans

Believe in dyslexia? I don't even believe in dog.

howdyya

I know a lot about dyslexia. Maybe more than you, who knows?

Your "in some cases" are rare. Once diagnosed with dyslexia they often stop trying to learn. Unless you are one of the rare cases its laziness that stops you from learning to read or write.

If you "can not be taught that same way" surely you use the other ways to teach them how to read and write and if not it's their own fault or their parents.

So they claim to be dyslexic for the remainder of their lives

Morag

I hear a lot about lazy dyslexics, but I have never meet one.
All the people I know who have dyslexia and/or dyscalculia and/or dysgraphia are smart people who have become pretty motivated to try and not let themselves be limited by it.

boomkatalog

I thought with dyslexia it was about the letters being jumbled up or jumping off the page?

It might be that it's more common in people with lower IQs but I know someone who always did well in school, but could never spell words properly (ok, he did well with the exception of spellings tests!) and never read for pleasure as it was too difficult.

If you might doubt the credibility of a person claiming to have dyslexia, would you doubt someone with oromotor dyspraxia or dyscalculia?

looksee

Dyslexia can affect people with all IQs, there are people with degrees who have dyslexia.

mattjack

Sharrow wrote: »

I hear a lot about lazy dyslexics, but I have never meet one.
All the people I know who have dyslexia and/or dyscalculia and/or dysgraphia are smart people who have become pretty motivated to try and not let themselves be limited by it.

Same here...In my own family there,s been four males diagnosed with dyslexia,but each have been very successful in their own careers.
Remembering their parents fears and upset when they were diagnosed ,I,d find it hard to believe anyone would use dyslexia as an excuse for poor literacy skills.

howdyya

No I wouldn't doubt someone with dyscalculia, how often do you hear someone say "I have dyscalculia"?

Its not over used and over diagnosed like dyslexia.

byhookorbycrook

define over diagnosed and by who?

Neyite

howdyya wrote: »

No I wouldn't doubt someone with dyscalculia, how often do you hear someone say "I have dyscalculia"?

Its not over used and over diagnosed like dyslexia.

Thats because most children who may have had it were just written off by a teacher as being crap at maths.

I always read and wrote to a pretty high standard, and the rest of my subjects came easily enough to me, however nobody ever suggested that my issues with maths was anything more than me just being a lazy kid. To this day, there are times tables I could learn off verbatim today, and ask me in a week I would be stumped.

Ironically, I'm studying accountancy, so I know that I will have to just cram it for the exams, and you could give me the same paper a month later and I would not know where to start.

I have never been diagnosed, and would not even know where to start as diagnosis is geared towards children. In a way, I see your point that if I had gotten a diagnosis, I would not have gone for accountancy, probably writing myself off in it. But it does not mean that I cant try.

Liberal Irishman

howdyya wrote: »

Do you believe in dyslexia?

I beleive!

Zombrex

I have been diagnosed with dyslexia.

I'm not entirely sure what the OP means by poor literacy, but I can testify to it not being simply a case of not learning something properly.

The best way to describe it, at least how it effects me, is trying to remember something you have never learnt.

Pick something you don't know, now try and recall the answer. Naturally you won't be able to, you don't know the answer. Now imagine that you know you should know the answer. That is one manifestation of dyslexia, again at last for me.

The most jarring example is when I couldn't recall how to spell apple. It was in secondary school writing an essay. It was very embarrassing. I of course knew how to spell apple, but I just couldn't figure it out at that moment. There was no recall. It was like I had never learnt the word, nor the system to construct the word.

This is an extreme example, but it happens in minor ways all the time. You learn to develop other skills to help aid recall.

One of the worst aspects of dyslexia is that I am absolutely hopeless at learning languages, and the whole Throw him in he'll pick it up thing doesn't work. I could spend years in France or Spain and I would probably only grasp the most basic of the language structure.

I really feel I've missed out with this, going to a foreign country is a stressful experience and I find myself relying on friends to help out and getting very nervous in situations where I have to converse in a foreign language.

Could be one reason why I gravitated towards computers and computer languages, "languages" that follow simple predefined rules and structure, unlike human languages.

CDfm

Wicknight -have you been reading my diary :mad:

Exactly the same with me and it was picked up on by a french lecturer in college.

Though when you learn something you really know it.

mikemac

Joe Duffy show covered this before

Children get diagnosed at primary school and so got exempted from Irish as it was felt learning two languages was too much for a child

But then in secondary school many of the children took up French, German, Spanish or some other common language.

And stayed out of Irish as they felt they were too far behind.
One parent had their child try Irish but had the exemption "in the back pocket" if they needed it come exam time.

For sure some children have difficulty in school.
But then the debate was if you feel you can't do Irish why are students sitting exams in other languages.

Was an interesting debate anyway, never did find a solution

ScouseMouse

I believe it, boy do I !

My Mrs has it. Letters moving and falling off the page, the fear of escalators, asking me to explain big words, etc, etc. Sitting up at midnight editing a verbal presentation she had to record to cd for a course, trying to take out the gaps and the coaching, trying to make it sound fluid and continuous.

My Mrs was selected to stand up in front of a conference of trainee teachers in Blackrock to explain how it manifests itself and her experiences.

Maybe there are people who are wrongly classed as dyslexic, but it is a very real condition.

I have the fear of escalators I never knew it was related to my dyslexia, everyone finds my fear of escalators funny, when my oldest daughter was little and we were getting on an escalator she use to say its okay mum I will mind you!!

My ( dyslexia ) is mild enough but it can be annoying especially when using boards:D

CDfm

mikemac wrote: »

Joe Duffy show covered this before

That is comforting.:rolleyes:

Children get diagnosed at primary school and so got exempted from Irish as it was felt learning two languages was too much for a child

I wasn't but was at university

But then in secondary school many of the children took up French, German, Spanish or some other common language.


And stayed out of Irish as they felt they were too far behind.
One parent had their child try Irish but had the exemption "in the back pocket" if they needed it come exam time.

I was able to rattle off Irish and would memorise the Irish reader from the other kids and could not read it.

For sure some children have difficulty in school.
But then the debate was if you feel you can't do Irish why are students sitting exams in other languages.

You pick up skills when you get older including cramming etc

Dyslexic does not mean lazy.

I have a post-grad.

At maths I could do equations and mental arithmathic coild compute for ireland.

I have never been able to do a theorem.
Edication should mean development and it makes sense.

Earthhorse

I believe in Dyslexia the same way I believe in conditions such as depression and anxiety etc. That is, I believe they are useful terms to describe certain phenomena. I don't think we know very much about the human mind and how it works so I honestly don't know how useful a description dyslexia really is. Channel 4 did a really interesting documentary on this a few years back. I think it was called The Myth of Dyslexia.

Edit: actually it's called The Dyslexia Myth. Whole thing is up on Google Video here: http://www.google.ie/url?url=http://video.google.com/videoplay%3Fdocid%3D6031033294208468907&rct=j

I don't know what to think after watching that I could read very early on, but my spelling was always poor strangely enough I did okay in school, its very hard to describe but I have a problem with thing like left and right and with words that sound very similar but have different meanings, I find reversing around a bend difficult because I can't make a connection between how to turn the wheel and what direction the car will turn.

Funny enough I find my use of English has improved somewhat since I started using boards.

CDfm

A phenomana is a great way to describe it.

I got helped with mine by a french professor at UL who taught me french using German frenchwork books to get thru the lazy tricks and shortcuts.

After a month or so after we started I thanked him he "lectured me" that it was my entitlement.

Blisterman

I'm a little wary of labelling something like this as a condition, as opposed to just considering it being bad with words or bad at maths.

People will always have strengths and weaknesses. I've a brain like a sieve, which certainly affected my school perfomance, as I couldn't retain information well after studying but since it's not a recognised condition, I don't get any special treatment and neither would people with poor imagination, bad spatial awareness, poor social skills etc.

DM addict

I believe in dyslexia, but in the same way I believe in heart disease.

I have a few good friends with dsylexia - one has a PhD, another is a writer. They are both highly intelligent, but words/letters sometimes move around on the page for them. Doesn't stop them being "good with words", just slows them up a little.

Thank the gods for spell-check.

alex73

howdyya wrote: »

Do you believe in dyslexia?

How are you diagnosed with dyslexia and not poor literacy?

Personally I believe there is a form of dyslexia but far too many people are claiming that they have it or their children have it just to excuse their poor literacy.

Ignorant post. My brother and I both have it. I have kept it hidden for years but my brothers is worse. I remember my mother trying to teach him how to spell Elephant for a whole evening when he was 8. Its not laziness, it really exists, but with training you can overcome it.

But kids need ot have a trained professional to help.

Dudess

howdyya wrote: »

Personally I believe there is a form of dyslexia but far too many people are claiming that they have it or their children have it just to excuse their poor literacy.

Believe it all you like. Personally I have NEVER encountered someone who claims to be dyslexic when they're not. I have encountered a few mean-spirited people on Boards.ie though just throwing it out there that many people who are dyslexic really aren't (apropos nothing), they're just lazy... which is ironically one of the laziest ****ing things that gets said - along with "ADHD/Aspergers don't exist - they're just bratty kids".

howdyya wrote: »

Its not over used and over diagnosed like dyslexia.

Examples?

Obelisk

Personally I think dyslexia is fakery. Just an opinion.

Dudess

But... it either is fakery or it isn't? What people think/believe is irrelevant when it comes to something that's either a fact or isn't - and surely you'd at least try to back it up?

The girl I know who couldn't get a job because of it - jeez, interesting that she'd risk unemployment for the sake of indulging in a bit of fakery...

Obelisk

Ok then, its fakery. Most 'dyslexics' i know are in it for a grant/ free laptop.

These are the lads who were formerly known as 'kids who cant read good' in my time. I'm unsure of what was wrong with that term. (Oh yeah, no free laptop!)

Dudess

Obelisk wrote: »

Ok then, its fakery.

Nope. Dyslexia is real.

Most 'dyslexics' i know are in it for a grant/ free laptop. These are the lads who were formerly known as 'kids who cant read good' in my time. I'm unsure of what was wrong with that term. (Oh yeah, no free laptop!)

Ah... so your reasoning behind the statement that dyslexia is fakery is: you know people (how many?) who are considered dyslexic and you assume they're not.

Obelisk

Yeah, pretty much.

Dudess wrote: »

(how many?)

Loads!

Dudess

So dyslexia isn't actually fakery after all - you just think it might be in the case of some people.

Eroticplants

I don't but I fully believe in stupidity and laziness.
Meh.

Dudess

Eroticplants wrote: »

I don't but I fully believe in stupidity and laziness.

Oh yeah absolutely - I mean there are people who actually believe dyslexia doesn't exist!

byhookorbycrook

Obelisk wrote: »

Ok then, its fakery. Most 'dyslexics' i know are in it for a grant/ free laptop.

These are the lads who were formerly known as 'kids who cant read good' in my time. I'm unsure of what was wrong with that term. (Oh yeah, no free laptop!)

What grants and what laptops??

CDfm

Obelisk wrote: »

Ok then, its fakery. Most 'dyslexics' i know are in it for a grant/ free laptop.

These are the lads who were formerly known as 'kids who cant read good' in my time. I'm unsure of what was wrong with that term. (Oh yeah, no free laptop!)

Maybe what is wrong with that term is that 25% of the Irish population across all demographics are funtionally illiterate.

So it means that our teachers are not skilled in the diagnostics or the teaching skills.

A fairly damning statistic, does it prompt you to ask how the teachers measure themselves

Ten years ago, nearly a quarter of the adult population in this country were functionally illiterate. That didn't mean that they were unable, or had no desire, to read Sartre, Dante, Shakespeare, Joyce, or even Roddy Doyle or Cecelia Ahern.
It meant they stood helplessly in the streets of our towns and cities, unable to read the destination signs on the buses.
It meant that as parents they peered doubtfully at packets of medication, unable to read the directions which told them the correct dosage to give to their children, or more seriously, what would amount to a dangerous overdose.
More than half-a-million Irish people between the ages of 16 and 64 suffered under this huge disadvantage. It is a disadvantage which psychologists acknowledge can induce states of helpless rage leading to uncontrollable fits of violence. (Indeed, the percentage of inmates in all of our prisons who are unable to read and write is way above the national average.)
The horrifying figure of 24 per cent adult illiteracy was first published in an OECD survey in 1996, and put us close to the bottom of the international league. (In Europe, only Poland scored worse than we did.)



http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/illiteracy-shames-us-in-whatever-language-1092418.html

The figure is currently 23%

Child literacy rates have not improved for the past 30 years, despite greater investment in education and smaller class sizes. The extent of the problem was formally identified in 1997 when the United Nations reported that nearly one-quarter of the population had serious literacy difficulties. Then, two years ago, the OECD found that one in six 15-year-olds did not have the literacy skills to cope with further education or the demands of the modern workplace

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/0414/1224294669072.html

Ahem.

Teachers pay is not the problem :pac:

maryshan

Probably the most accepted definition of Dyslexia is:

The International Dyslexia Association defines dyslexia as a specific learning disability characterised by unexpected difficulty in accuracy and rate of decoding, word reading, and text reading and spelling (Lyon, Shaywitz, & Shaywitz, 2003). Dyslexia, which is conceptualised as only one of the many kinds of learning disabilities that may exist, is neurobiological in origin and is unexpected on the basis of other cognitive skills and instructional history. These unexpected difficulties are attributed to a phonological core deficit.

It is genetically inherited. Characterised by difficulties in single-word decoding, usually reflecting insufficient phonological processing abilities.

With regard to needing a discrepancy between measured intelligence and reading ability, there is debate among the experts in this area that a discrepancy isn't required, more important that the phonological deficit be identified, so it is possible to have low cognitive ability and dyslexia.

With regard to it being seen as words and letters 'jumping around', this is a factor in only about 14% of cases where the dyslexia is more visual in nature than phonological.
There are a lot of popular myths and misunderstandings out there about dyslexia which really contaminate the debate. Clear differences have been shown in fMRI studies of the normal vs dyslexic brain, mostly affecting the speech and language areas of the brain, where parts used by normal readers are under-active in dyslexic readers.

Boards has helped me in an unexpected way with my dyslexia, heres how when you edit your post it comes up with a blue background which for me makes it easier to see my mistakes, I think it must be something to do with the contrast between the white and blue that helps me.

I have been to college and have a very good job despite my dyslexia.

I have ambivalent feeling about children getting too much help in school ( I got none ) I am not against children getting some help so long as its doesn't stigmatise the child and its made clear to the child and to the childs parent that its not a sub for hard work.

sipstrassi

My son is severely dyslexic.

He is now in his twenties, but his school years were traumatic for the whole family. Homework that should take 20 minutes was taking 3 to 4 hours. This went on until he moved to a school with an excellent resource teacher.
For years he thought he was stupid, despite being able to complete a Mensa test quicker than most adults (read aloud to him).

He still struggles but has become an avid reader because we found a system that works for him. He's not afraid to ask for help despite the existence of ignorant people who would label him a faker, lazy or stupid.

Dudess

I'm sure he takes comfort in the fact that they're the lazy, stupid ones anyway.

Jelly2

Dudess wrote: »

Believe it all you like. Personally I have NEVER encountered someone who claims to be dyslexic when they're not. I have encountered a few mean-spirited people on Boards.ie though just throwing it out there that many people who are dyslexic really aren't (apropos nothing), they're just lazy... which is ironically one of the laziest ****ing things that gets said - along with "ADHD/Aspergers don't exist - they're just bratty kids".

I believe dyslexia exists - I've witnessed its effects personally and professionally. But I have also met someone who says that they are dyslexic, based purely on the fact that she didn't like reading aloud in school, and got nervous doing it (join the club!), and took a long time to learn things. Hardly a professional diagnosis.

Dudess

Well I'm not saying it's impossible for someone to lie about being dyslexic, but I don't get why some people just decide on that basis that "dyslexia is fakery". Some people just don't like the idea that there are folks who need a bit of help with stuff - almost as if they resent it and see it as "special treatment".

Honey-ec

I can see the point the OP is trying to make, even if s/he did word it somewhat unfortunately.

Is dyslexia real? Absolutely.

Is dyslexia also used as a catch-all excuse by *some* people to excuse poor spelling & grammar? Absolutely.

I don't think the OP was inferring that genuine dyslexics are lazy but, again, that *some* people claim to be dyslexic when they are, in fact, just lazy. I have one friend who does it all the time.

I also think the number of people online who claim to be dyslexic is completely disproportionate to the incidence of dyslexia in real life. So either one of two things is happening:

A) Dyslexic people are more likely to engage in online activity

or

A certain percentage of keyboard warriors claim to be dyslexic when they're not.

I know which one I think it is.

Jelly2

Honey-ec wrote: »

I can see the point the OP is trying to make, even if s/he did word it somewhat unfortunately.

Is dyslexia real? Absolutely.

Is dyslexia also used as a catch-all excuse by *some* people to excuse poor spelling & grammer? Absolutely.

I don't think the OP was inferring that all dyslexics are lazy but, again, that *some* people claim to be dyslexic when they are, in fact, just lazy. I have one friend who does it all the time.]

Exactly, perhaps an excuse for laziness or an excuse for their not being that clever. It must be annoying for real dyslexics to have people degrade their disorder in this way.

I just have to answer the above, while I have never been accused of being lazy about my English, I was told about a million time if only you would slow down and take a bit more care your work would be better :mad:...If I was to spent all day composing a 6 word sentence I would still write things like two as tow ( and not see that I had made a mistake ) even though I am well aware of the correct use of 'their' and 'there' how to use them often switches in my head as I am writing, it is noting to do with laziness all ( although I can see why people might think that )....its the same reason why I have problem with left and right.

Having said that we had a student on placement that had very severe dyslexia and I could see the difference between my mild difficulties and the students severe difficulties, now she was a mature student and what I couldn't understand was why someone with severe dyslexia would study a largely humanities type course that involved a huge amount of written work, the student has a lot of help from the college and was still struggling to cope, in fact she was making herself ill with stress over it.

Jelly2

Thanks for your comments Mariaalice - it's really interesting to read your explanations of what it's like to have dyslexia. Just to reiterate though - I firmly believe that dyslexia exists, and have no reason not to believe you when you say you have it. I was only talking about people who claim to have dyslexia but have never been professionally diagnosed.:)

A2LUE42

I was diagnosed with Dyslexia at the age of 30. I was very happy that it hadn't been diagnosed in primary school, as I would have been put in the 'slow learner class' and would have missed the opportunity to learn the things I did in the main class while the 'slow learner class' was going on. I love reading books, maths and computers. As a child I found it strange to be able to pass Mensa tests with ease, but struggle with written English, even though I loved books.

Today is the first time that I had heard of a fear of escalators being connected to dyslexia, I was terrified of them as a child. I was also terrified of heights. I have managed to pretty much overcome both.

Paulor94

I remember my primary school thinking i had dyslexia even though i have no problem with reading, writing or anything like that.

cat_rant

I went to college with a girl who told us she had numerical dyslexia. I remember her talking about it and how some times it was worse than others. She said that maths is school was awful for her as her numbers would turn out backwards and her calculation's were mostly wrong even with simple addition and subtraction.

She said that she hated trying to make change in the shop when standing at the till and tended to buy the same things so she new how much she needed to have to hand.

I often think it's tough having to adjust to compensate for your lack of ability when dealing with a condition like this and it's so inconsiderate of others to judge.

CDfm

Same here. Theorems were the most fun. :rolleyes: