Report to be publish-Hundreds of children abused by 20 priests

7sr2z3fely84g5

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/hundreds-of-children-abused-by-20-priests-2845362.html

A shocking new report will reveal how up to 20 paedophile priests abused hundreds of children in one diocese over a 40-year period -- sparking a new cover-up scandal for the Catholic Church.
Clergy are severely criticised for the way victims and their families were treated in the diocese of Raphoe, Co Donegal.
The report is due out later this month.
It will come in the wake of a series of damning reports which have rocked the church with revelations about the scale of sex abuse in the diocese of Cloyne, in the archdiocese of Dublin and by religious orders.
The report, for the National Board for Safeguarding Children in the Catholic Church, is expected to be published by the Bishop of Raphoe, Dr Philip Boyce, in the next two weeks.
It is understood the board received "total cooperation" from Dr Boyce.
The contents of the report are said to be "horrific" and outline a catalogue of allegations against priests who abused young children and senior colleagues who failed their victims.
"There were hundreds and hundreds of victims," one source told the Irish Independent, "and they were abused again and again while the church actively prevented investigations by the civil authorities.
"The Raphoe diocese, like others, was only interested in protecting the church and not the victims"
In one case the Irish Independent has learned about a priest who raped young boys in one of Raphoe's 33 parishes and was "sent away" for less than a month after the parents of a young boy made a complaint to the church.
The incident, in 1977, left the family devastated when they realised the priest was returning to the parish. The family were assured that the church had "dealt with" the matter and that no more incidents would take place.
The priest in question was moved through several other parishes over a 30-year period as the diocese failed again and again to deal with him. He continued to target young boys and abuse them. Gardai were never informed of the allegations.
When gardai did become involved in a number of investigations, the church was uncooperative, obstructive and misled detectives.
Even though the diocese had investigated allegations against some priests, no files were ever handed over to gardai and no records were ever found.
In another incident, the parents of one victim claim they were asked by a senior cleric if they were "all right" financially.
One victim, raped by a Catholic priest in the diocese, told the Irish Independent: "I cannot begin to tell you how much I am looking forward to seeing this audit being published. It will be like a dark cloud lifting off me.
Truth
"The cover-up by the church in Rome and here in Ireland is finally being exposed. I have no doubt Dr Boyce will apologise to people like me, but what we want is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth."
Another victim insisted the authorities had to go much further than publishing the audit. "In every walk of life, someone who covers up a crime or who prevents a criminal from being brought to justice is arrested and charged with helping an offender or perverting the course of justice."
The audit of the diocese was led by Ian Elliott chief executive of the National Board for Safeguarding Children in the Catholic Church. The board was founded in 2006 and has compiled audits on six of Ireland's 26 dioceses.
A spokesman for Mr Elliott said his board 's report examined "the full extent of all complaints or allegations, knowledge, suspicions or concerns of child sexual abuse, made to the Raphoe diocese by individuals or by the civil authorities in the period 1 January 1975 to the present day, against Catholic clergy."
The clergy included all members of religious congregations affiliated with Raphoe.
Raphoe diocese press officer, Fr Paddy Dunne, told the Irish Independent he believed the audit would be published within weeks. "No exact date has been set for its publication but I believe it will be before the end of August," he said.
"It is very important that we are open and honest about what is in it and that we deal with all the issues which are raised."
The Raphoe diocese set up a child protection committee in June 2006. Bishop Boyce said last month that all abuse allegations are now reported to gardai.
Each parish now has two or more child protection representatives who train all church personnel who have contact with children.

im sure they hope the dail wont be back for this report to avoid scathing attack from the taoiseach,shocking stuff :mad:

Rabidlamb

20 priests at it in one Diocese in Donegal.
Truly brutal.

prinz

Perhaps it would be better for the actual report to be published.

As for the highlighted part above. Yes it's pretty obvious a lot of people deeply at fault, including the victim's family.

optogirl

prinz wrote: »

Perhaps it would be better for the actual report to be published.

As for the highlighted part above. Yes it's pretty obvious a lot of people deeply at fault, including the victim's family.

in what way are the family deeply at fault?

FetchTheGin

prinz wrote: »

Perhaps it would be better for the actual report to be published.

As for the highlighted part above. Yes it's pretty obvious a lot of people deeply at fault, including the victim's family.

How the **** are the victims family at fault? They made a complaint and they were assured that the matter was dealt with only for the sick bastard to return.

prinz

optogirl wrote: »

in what way are the family deeply at fault?

FetchTheGin wrote: »

How the **** are the victims family at fault? They made a complaint and they were assured that the matter was dealt with only for the sick bastard to return.

The family chose not to approach the gardaí. Isn't that usually the complaint levelled at people involved in covering up the abuse? But of course there's no room for even considering that is there.

FetchTheGin

prinz wrote: »

The family chose not to approach the gardaí. Isn't that usually the complaint levelled at people involved in covering up the abuse?

This...

When gardai did become involved in a number of investigations, the church was uncooperative, obstructive and misled detectives.

optogirl

prinz wrote: »

The family chose not to approach the gardaí. Isn't that usually the complaint levelled at people involved in covering up the abuse? But of course there's no room for even considering that is there.

anything to distract us from the real problem here - that yet again, the RCC have protected rapists and allowed them to continue and yet again they have had to have it dragged out of them rather than volunteering it.

prinz

FetchTheGin wrote: »

This...

And this..

Gardai were never informed of the allegations.

Ghost Buster

prinz wrote: »

The family chose not to approach the gardaí. Isn't that usually the complaint levelled at people involved in covering up the abuse? But of course there's no room for even considering that is there.

On one hand you are right. However this only goes to show the influence that the church had over all aspects of irish society. An influence they were only too happy to hold on to. If families pursued the church they were in danger of becoming social pariahs.

prinz

optogirl wrote: »

anything to distract us from the real problem here - that yet again, the RCC have protected rapists and allowed them to continue and yet again they have had to have it dragged out of them rather than volunteering it.

That is a real problem. The fact that thousands of people, not clerics, all over the country seem to have known about what was going on and did/said nothing is also a real problem, but one which doesn't make for such great tabloid reading.

Ghost Buster

I first heard about this on the radio news today. The Bishop has 'dismissed' the report as 'inaccurate' and 'not in the public interest'...:rolleyes:

optogirl

prinz wrote: »

That is a real problem. The fact that thousands of people, not clerics, all over the country seem to have known about what was going on and did/said nothing is also a real problem, but one which doesn't make for such great tabloid reading.

I don't read the tabloids but no doubt you would prefer if it was all made up by them. Sadly it isn't.

prinz

Ghost Buster wrote: »

On one hand you are right. However this only goes to show the influence that the church had over all aspects of irish society. An influence they were only too happy to hold on to. If families pursued the church they were in danger of becoming social pariahs.

Indeed. It's a massive failing that more people didn't stand up to the animals, in time. There's an interesting story in the biography of John Charles McQuaid by John Cooney (IIRC) about two gardaí who became aware of allegations and started their own digging and investigating. When McQuaid was made aware of what they were doing the two men were transferred to separate sides of the country on his orders.

mackg

prinz wrote: »

The family chose not to approach the gardaí. Isn't that usually the complaint levelled at people involved in covering up the abuse? But of course there's no room for even considering that is there.

What are you getting at? Do you mean the family should be subject to prosecution if members of the church are, or are you saying that the clergy involved in the cover up should escape prosecution because the family knew about it too? Or did you just come into the thread to have a go at the victims families?

Edit: no need to answer due to subsequent posts

7sr2z3fely84g5

in the states,an bible leader abused girls and was given LIFE,i cant imagine what short sentence would the same scenario would get here-
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/polygamist-child-abuser-gets-life/story-e6frg6so-1226112287934

He was sentenced to life in prison today for sexually assaulting one of his child brides - among 24 underage wives prosecutors said Jeffs collected - and received the maximum 20-year punishment on a separate child sex conviction. Jeffs, 55, will not be eligible for parole until he is at least 100 years old.

Ostrom

prinz wrote: »

That is a real problem. The fact that thousands of people, not clerics, all over the country seem to have known about what was going on and did/said nothing is also a real problem, but one which doesn't make for such great tabloid reading.

One which is entirely understandable in the context of church authority at this time

joseph brand

The board was founded in 2006 and has compiled audits on six of Ireland's 26 dioceses.

Does this mean there's even MORE to come??

It pi$$es me off how these priests get 'caught' when they are in their 80's and almost dead. Pity they weren't caught younger.

It just gets worse!

Typical old lady parishioner: "Ahh leave the poor priests alone".
Listen ye oul b*tch, they're not poor in any sense of the word. :mad:

prinz

mackg wrote: »

What are you getting at? Do you mean the family should be subject to prosecution if members of the church are, or are you saying that the clergy involved in the cover up should escape prosecution because the family knew about it too? Or did you just come into the thread to have a go at the victims families?

Merely saying that the knowledge of the abuse, and the people who allowed it to continue wasn't restricted to the clergy. It's not a popular issue to bring up apparently.

7sr2z3fely84g5

joseph brand wrote: »

Does this mean there's even MORE to come??

It pi$$es me off how these priests get 'caught' when they are in their 80's and almost dead. Pity they weren't caught younger.

It just gets worse!

i think theres still allicane with the gov and church,usually if corporate with the authority's there still seems to be a lax approach,a judge can hand down life for rape but our prisons would be full of elderly men now.

prinz

It's horrific. Another exposure of how screwed up many people in the RCC were and how Irish society in general allowed it to happen. In a similar vein people often tend to forget that most women committed to Magdelene Laundries were sent there by their families.

Ghost Buster

Crosby Miniature Widower wrote: »

i think theres still allicane with the gov and church,usually if corporate with the authority's there still seems to be a lax approach,a judge can hand down life for rape but our prisons would be full of elderly men now.

Indeed

Ghost Buster

prinz wrote: »

It's horrific. Another exposure of how screwed up many people in the RCC were and how Irish society in general allowed it to happen. In a similar vein people often tend to forget that most women committed to Magdelene Laundries were sent there by their families.

In a state and society controlled by the catholic church populated by catholics raised by catholics under catholic guidance.

optogirl

prinz wrote: »

It's horrific. Another exposure of how screwed up many people in the RCC were and how Irish society in general allowed it to happen. In a similar vein people often tend to forget that most women committed to Magdelene Laundries were sent there by their families.

And do you think there might have been an element of persuasion on behalf of the church here?
I agree that the families of those girls need to seriously think about their actions however they were led to believe that they were being good catholics by doing what was expected of them by the church.
Time and again with the abuse cases we hear of people being told that to accuse a priest of something sinister was a sin in itself. People were living in a culture where the RCC had unimaginable power over the citizens.

prinz

optogirl wrote: »

And do you think there might have been an element of persuasion on behalf of the church here?
I agree that the families of those girls need to seriously think about their actions however they were led to believe that they were being good catholics by doing what was expected of them by the church.
Time and again with the abuse cases we hear of people being told that to accuse a priest of something sinister was a sin in itself. People were living in a culture where the RCC had unimaginable power over the citizens.

Yes they were, which is precisely my point. IMO it's not really getting to the heart of the whole sick, sorry cancer by focusing on what x priest and how x bishop dealt with it. The problem, in general terms, is a much wider one than that. "Just following orders" as they say, is not a great defence. It's mind boggling how people could know their own children were being abused and do little to nothing about it. How does an entire population fall so far under the spell of a relatively small bunch of scumbags. It's always fascinated me when it comes to Germany under the Nazis, and something I told myself was that I could never see the same thing happen here. Apparently it did.

7sr2z3fely84g5

optogirl wrote: »

And do you think there might have been an element of persuasion on behalf of the church here?
I agree that the families of those girls need to seriously think about their actions however they were led to believe that they were being good catholics by doing what was expected of them by the church.
Time and again with the abuse cases we hear of people being told that to accuse a priest of something sinister was a sin in itself. People were living in a culture where the RCC had unimaginable power over the citizens.

Sad but true,highlighted in a recent case-
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/1207/1224284926544.html

The abuse happened regularly over the course of several months. When he told his parents – both devoutly religious – they refused to believe him.
“My parents didn’t believe me . . . my mother said: ‘How could you say that about a man of the cloth, a man of God?’ . . . my father gave me a hiding which started in the kitchen and finished in the bedroom.”

optogirl

prinz wrote: »

Yes they were, which is precisely my point. IMO it's not really getting to the heart of the whole sick, sorry cancer by focusing on what x priest and how x bishop dealt with it. The problem, in general terms, is a much wider one than that. "Just following orders" as they say, is not a great defence. It's mind boggling how people could know their own children were being abused and do little to nothing about it. How does an entire population fall so far under the spell of a relatively small bunch of scumbags. It's always fascinated me when it comes to Germany under the Nazis, and something I told myself was that I could never see the same thing happen here. Apparently it did.

It is incredible. I am so glad I live to see them slowly rot.

7sr2z3fely84g5

prinz wrote: »

How does an entire population fall so far under the spell of a relatively small bunch of scumbags. It's always fascinated me when it comes to Germany under the Nazis, and something I told myself was that I could never see the same thing happen here. Apparently it did.

i think the same way,but i like to add the 1997-2008 gov to that mix,they all started to leave at the last moment when the IMF started to invade!.

MetalDog

Crosby Miniature Widower wrote: »

in the states,an bible leader abused girls and was given LIFE,i cant imagine what short sentence would the same scenario would get here

if it happened here, he'd be tranferred to another parish. .

Ghost Buster

prinz wrote: »

Yes they were, which is precisely my point. IMO it's not really getting to the heart of the whole sick, sorry cancer by focusing on what x priest and how x bishop dealt with it. The problem, in general terms, is a much wider one than that. "Just following orders" as they say, is not a great defence. It's mind boggling how people could know their own children were being abused and do little to nothing about it. How does an entire population fall so far under the spell of a relatively small bunch of scumbags. It's always fascinated me when it comes to Germany under the Nazis, and something I told myself was that I could never see the same thing happen here. Apparently it did.

How is (was) the RCC a small number of scum bags? Perhaps relative to the population there was a small quantity of Nuns, priests and Bishops but having them as the leader of every parish, controllers of every schools, mentioned in the constitution and having sway over politics and the law I think more than made up for the ratio!

prinz

optogirl wrote: »

It is incredible. I am so glad I live to see them slowly rot.

That's where we begin to differ. I take no pleasure in seeing innocent priests suffer because of what their predecessors did.

Lollipops23

prinz wrote: »

Yes it's pretty obvious a lot of people deeply at fault, including the victim's family.

Umm, how?!

optogirl

prinz wrote: »

That's where we begin to differ. I take no pleasure in seeing innocent priests suffer because of what their predecessors did.

Well I have no time for the organisation. I think people who have a belief in god should look elsewhere to facilitate that relationship

joseph brand

MetalDog wrote: »

if it happened here, he'd be tranferred to another parish. .

Try not to think what is going on in Africa with the priests over there. Or anywhere else in the world, for that matter. Probably hear about those 'Holy Catholic Paedophile Child Raping Monsters' in 20 years.

DrumSteve

I think now is the time to seriously consider making this organisation illegal in this country.

mikemac

I'm waiting for the report and not what the Irish Independant want to leak in advance

There isn't one direct quote in that article, just an anonymous spokesman

Edit, to be clear I'm not asking for names of victims, nobody would ask that.

Just the indo have a "source" on what's in the report and that couldn't get a direct quote from the investigators, just a "spokesman"
A national paper and not one named quote? Sure they could put anything they wanted in that article

prinz

mikemac wrote: »

I'm waiting for the report and not what the Irish Independant want to leak in advance. There isn't one direct quote in that article, just an anonymous spokesman

Which is exactly what the bishop of raphoe said was not in the public's best interests. He expressly said that people should wait until the full report is published before jumping all over alleged leaks and snippets.

The Bishop of Raphoe has dismissed a newspaper article about the contents of a report into allegations of clerical child sex abuse in a Co Donegal diocese.

The article, in the Irish Independent, claims that hundreds of children were abused in Raphoe by around 20 priests over a 40-year period.

Bishop Philip Boyce said the report was "inaccurate and misleading and not in the public interest".

Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/bishop-of-raphoe-newspaper-story-on-abuse-report-not-in-public-interest-516125.html#ixzz1UjcII4kU

Of course on this thread it's twisted to make it look like Boyce was describing the report into abuse in Raphoe itself as not in the public interest. He wasn't, he was referring to the article in the Independent.

Knight who says Meh

prinz wrote: »

Which is exactly what the bishop of raphoe said was not in the public's best interests. He expressly said that people should wait until the full report is published before jumping all over alleged leaks and snippets.

Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/bishop-of-raphoe-newspaper-story-on-abuse-report-not-in-public-interest-516125.html#ixzz1UjcII4kU

[COLOR=#000000]Of course on this thread it's twisted to make it look like Boyce was describing the report into abuse in Raphoe itself as not in the public interest. He wasn't, he was referring to the article in the Independent.[/COLOR]

Meh. What ever. So long as its doing damage to the church thats fine by me.....

steddyeddy

prinz wrote: »

The family chose not to approach the gardaí. Isn't that usually the complaint levelled at people involved in covering up the abuse? But of course there's no room for even considering that is there.

A family of one of brandan smyths vicitms reported it to the local gaurda. After a while of waiting for results the victims mother aproached the station again demanding to know what was happening with the case. These men in the station told the woman "they had lost the file" in a statement which shows they held the report in the same regard as a shopping list. The victim later commit suicide after being told this by his mother. The men in the station who lost the file also facilitated the rape and abuse of the rest of brendan smyths victims.

The cloyne report mentions massive gaurd failure which details complaints by familes and kids basically sitting in a drawer. Arthane industrial school is the centre of more than 500 reports all of which were aprantly investigated by gaurds, look up how many files were sent to the dpp as a result.

So really its impossible to know who reported what to the gaurdi seeing the amount of incompetence employed in dealing with these complaints Im not going to judge the family in case they didnt report just yet.