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Alternatives to VAG DSG

  • 10-08-2011 3:11pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,977
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    I'm contemplating getting a GTI/VRS/FR with a DSG box and I'm wondering if there are alternatives to VAG cars?

    Needs to be:
    - DSG or equivalent
    - 4/5 doors
    - petrol
    - at least 150 BHP, wouldn't go over 200 by much for insurance reasons.

    I'm only doing 6k km a year for the past 2 years, so cannot justify a larger engine (would like a 4l V8, but tax kills it - this would have to be pre-08 I'd imagine).

    How is a turbo petrol going to fare on my low mileage? I'm doing mostly short trips, 3-10km, am I better off going for displacement for better reliability and higher tax?

    budget around 13k including an 08 Swift.

    in b4 E46 M3 :) (3 doors, no good)


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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,688 mickdw
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    You could get a selespeed alfa but there is a 50/50 chance of the gearbox going wrong weekly.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,822 galwaytt
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    mickdw wrote: »
    You could get a selespeed alfa but there is a 50/50 chance of the gearbox going wrong weekly.

    ...which is no more often than the engine light coming on in a VAG, then.........

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,822 EPM
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    Of those I'd look closely at a Leon FR. They have the highest spec and are quite cheap compared to the others. Also a fair few are DSG. Downside is the interiors a bit murky and the ride quality is rubbish.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,977 rocky
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    mickdw wrote: »
    You could get a selespeed alfa but there is a 50/50 chance of the gearbox going wrong weekly.

    Even with my low mileage? :) j/k, I'm looking for some resemblance of reliability, which is why...
    galwaytt wrote: »
    ...which is no more often than the engine light coming on in a VAG, then.........

    ...I'm concerned with VAG cars and their poxy 2yr warranty and am asking for alternatives.
    EPM wrote: »
    Of those I'd look closely at a Leon FR. They have the highest spec and are quite cheap compared to the others. Also a fair few are DSG. Downside is the interiors a bit murky and the ride quality is rubbish.

    It is the cheapest of the 3 for sure, and I'm looking for a bit more refinement than sportiness. Also don't care much how a car's exterior looks, if the interior is all hard plastics.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 181 blue5
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    I had a 2005 GTI, although it was manual it was an epic car, I wished I'd gotten the DSG on it ...and so the Sirocco I have now has it.

    I wouldn't do very high mileage either, more than yourself but every now and then it would get a long spin on the motorway and not a bother. Servicing at main VW dealer was great and good value if you look after the car.

    I'd also recommend looking at the Seats for sheer value! Never driven one but coming from the same manufacturer, the parts & servicing will be good quality.

    If you want to enjoy your drives, you don't have to go far, I'd recommend going for it.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,520 colm_mcm
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    DSG in my opinion is unique in my opinion in that it enhances the drive, systems like selespeed aren't better than a manual and can be jerky.
    If I had a company vw I'd jump at a DSG but would never actually buy one.

    I don't think any other manufacturer in that bracket offers anything similar

    I quite like the combination of the Audi multitronic box and diesel engine. But they're supposed to be scrap.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37 Ashevlin


    The selspeed system is poor. Much as its a nice drive, would anyone buy one used?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,520 colm_mcm
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    Any of those self shifting manual box systems like selespeed, toyota multimode, Citroën sensodrive, ford durashift est are all shoite for the same reasons. I wouldn't buy one in a fit.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 565 Squall19
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    I remember reading about the DSG technology and the thing that stood out was the fact that it must engage every gear, read this a long time ago.

    Is this still the case, that it must cycle through each gear?

    How do the DSG boxes take to mapping/tuning nowadays?

    Wasn't there problems with torque before.

    I wouldn't be spending much money either if I was you OP, those petrol's cars listed lose an absolute fortune from new.

    They are all what 30k new?

    In 3 years you'd be lucky to get 10k for them.

    Sell your 08 Swift privately and get a good 08 Leon FR like below.

    http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2384047

    Or dont spend anything and get the Polo GTI, map it, put bigger brakes, put on a downpipe and smile at the much heavier Golf's, Leon's in your back mirror :D

    http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2191546

    Seriously I wouldn't spend much, you will lose a fortune on a turbo petrol, a 2 or 3 year old one will be perfect and alot cheaper.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,801 Gary ITR
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    They can be mapped now, as far as I know the box has to be mapped too. I don't really know about it, just Joe Power was mumbling and muttering about it for a few weeks there while he was playing with his own box. Seems to have it down now though as it no longer feels like you're being punched in the face while accelerating in his van


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,822 EPM
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    rocky wrote: »
    It is the cheapest of the 3 for sure, and I'm looking for a bit more refinement than sportiness. Also don't care much how a car's exterior looks, if the interior is all hard plastics.

    Well the Leon is not as well polished as the others. The handling isn't as good and the hard ride really is back breaking. There are hard plastics on parts of the interior, but the bits you touch are quite good. I preferred the steering wheel on my old Leon to the vrs I have now. It is well screwed together too.

    As for DSG on an Irish vrs, I haven't seen one on all bar the facelift diesels.

    I nearly bought a DSG GTi and it was a cracking drive. They need the gearbox oil changed (every 40k from memory) and if that hasn't been done a lot of the VAG forums consensus is to avoid.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,977 rocky
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    Squall19 wrote: »
    I remember reading about the DSG technology and the thing that stood out was the fact that it must engage every gear, read this a long time ago.

    Is this still the case, that it must cycle through each gear?

    How do the DSG boxes take to mapping/tuning nowadays?

    Wasn't there problems with torque before.

    I wouldn't be spending much money either if I was you OP, those petrol's cars listed lose an absolute fortune from new.

    They are all what 30k new?

    In 3 years you'd be lucky to get 10k for them.

    Sell your 08 Swift privately and get a good 08 Leon FR like below.

    http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2384047

    Or dont spend anything and get the Polo GTI, map it, put bigger brakes, put on a downpipe and smile at the much heavier Golf's, Leon's in your back mirror :D

    http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2191546

    Seriously I wouldn't spend much, you will lose a fortune on a turbo petrol, a 2 or 3 year old one will be perfect and alot cheaper.

    I wouldn't get a new one, was thinking 08+, but would go for an 05 GTI if I found the right one...

    While the Polo GTI would be a good car, it's just too small for my needs. Refinement over sportiness ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,977 rocky
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    EPM wrote: »
    Well the Leon is not as well polished as the others. The handling isn't as good and the hard ride really is back breaking. There are hard plastics on parts of the interior, but the bits you touch are quite good. I preferred the steering wheel on my old Leon to the vrs I have now. It is well screwed together too.

    As for DSG on an Irish vrs, I haven't seen one on all bar the facelift diesels.

    I nearly bought a DSG GTi and it was a cracking drive. They need the gearbox oil changed (every 40k from memory) and if that hasn't been done a lot of the VAG forums consensus is to avoid.

    Handling worse on the FR than the VRS? Haven't driven either yet, just wondering about the octavia's image of a .. .boat in my mind. Not the VRS of course :). And the GTI will handle best of these?

    Too bad the Focus ST does not come with a Powershift gearbox...

    Edit: what about short journeys effect on the turbo, if it's properly maintained it shouldn't be an issue?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,822 EPM
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    rocky wrote: »
    Handling worse on the FR than the VRS? Haven't driven either yet, just wondering about the octavia's image of a .. .boat in my mind. Not the VRS of course :). And the GTI will handle best of these?

    Too bad the Focus ST does not come with a Powershift gearbox...

    Edit: what about short journeys effect on the turbo, if it's properly maintained it shouldn't be an issue?

    Well it's just my opinion but I find the octavia handles better than the FR. The FR is so stiff that the smallest of bumps can upset it a bit too much for my liking. It doesn't get it's power down as easily either. I get comments about the vrs image all the time. Had to get a diesel though in the end and it was the best bang for buck for the age/tax/spec.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,401 Nonoperational
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    I was going to buy an FR but the interior really put me off.

    On the DSG, it's a really great bit of stuff. The dual clutch makes it stand out and I'm not aware of a genuine alternative in the price range. It's pretty reliable too.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 Zubeneschamali
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    Ford's Powershift system is also a twin-clutch box, but you can only get it in a diesel at the moment.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,977 rocky
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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,401 Nonoperational
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    It's enough money but looks like it was well maintained.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,977 rocky
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    I can get insured on the GTI for 15 euro cheaper than my current Swift?? What's the catch?? :confused: (both with 123.ie)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,718 whippet
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    if that car does what it says on the tin .. as in stacks up it looks like a contender alright.

    It looks and sounds like it was treated well and the gearbox was serviced on time etc ...

    I really miss my one !!! :(


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,401 Nonoperational
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    You sure it's all in properly? Did you click female instead of male or something... Couldn't imagine that'd be right!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,977 rocky
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    TPFT Swift 397 GTI 383
    Comp Swift 610 GTI 672

    So TPFT is cheaper on the GTI


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,456 Mr Benevolent
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    rocky wrote: »
    TPFT Swift 397 GTI 383
    Comp Swift 610 GTI 672

    So TPFT is cheaper on the GTI

    Going TPFT on a newish car is a bit nuts tbh. Far better with fully comp for the extra couple of hundred.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,977 rocky
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    I'm only doing 6k km a year, comp seems wasted. I had comp for the 1st year, TPFT for the second...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,822 EPM
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    rocky wrote: »
    I'm only doing 6k km a year, comp seems wasted. I had comp for the 1st year, TPFT for the second...

    Hats insane reasoning. You stand to loose a wad IF you made a mistake. Fully comp is the only way to go on a car like that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,401 Nonoperational
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    I agree. Less than €300 a year extra is well worth it on a €10k car.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,977 rocky
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    Alright, fully comp it is, jeez :)


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