embryo transfer/insemination

49801

Anyone do/done embryo transfer/insemination.

was thinking it might be a good way of growing a pedigree animal... hopefully a very good stock bull in the future at a fraction of the live cost.

What companies do it.
see no mention of it on munsterai, eurogene, dovea
i see mention of harvesting on cow365.ie but little about implantation
www.genexcel.ie seem to do it...

good/bad idea?

experiences?

vanderbadger

49801 wrote: »

Anyone do/done embryo transfer/insemination.

was thinking it might be a good way of growing a pedigree animal... hopefully a very good stock bull in the future at a fraction of the live cost.

What companies do it.
see no mention of it on munsterai, eurogene, dovea
i see mention of harvesting on cow365.ie but little about implantation
www.genexcel.ie seem to do it...

good/bad idea?

experiences?

I think juniorhurler was on about it before..expensive business I think he said, do a search on belgian blues there and you will probably find what he said on it

reilig

An expensive business. The embryos are costly - you wouldn't put a cheap one in if you were doing it. The success rate can be low enough too. You're not guaranteed a bull!! The idea of getting a pedigree animal at a fraction of the cost is myth. You still have to feed the calf and raise it into a grown animal which costs money!!

flatout11

there is a few at it

eddie lynch/hugh mc govern - bovi genetics cavan
myles mc dermot - carlow
richard duff - i think he is still at it
genexcel
premier embryos cork
i am probably missing a few companys havent looked in a while

its expensive if you dont get what you are after (they dont all turn out good ones!!!! ) you would need to see the dam and know a bit about the bull, ideally if you seen some siblings of the same cross
expect conception rates of 50 to 60 %
add in the cost of the purchasing at least 2 embryos
cost of transfer
cost of doing a section at calving
cost of replacements (although you will still have these afterwards)
also unless the embryo is sexed (i think only premier offer this service) its a 50: 50 chance of getting a bull (obviously)
out of interest i would always reckon it took €3000 of a sale price to cover the cost- in reality if there was a fortune to be made everyone would be putting embryos in, im not knocking it but you need to have your eyes wide open cos you wouldnt find a few thousand going

49801

this one pure bred belgian blue

I was thinking more about implanting a commercial cow already on farm than buying a recipient.

300-400 embyro
70 preparing recipiant
80 implantation
50 registering calf

I could probably justify it if the costs can be kept under 5-600
but of course one implant may not take etc.

49801

I am struggling as to why you are including a cost for a C-section.
I have a couple of big commercial cows that should be able to calf unassisted. Not like I am talking BB more like SI not that they can be without trouble.
My goal would be to grow a SI with maternal traits.

I might be better off getting a purebred SI heifer and AI'ing her instead.

49801

ok,
i see premier embyro's recommend only using young animals for recipients.
why are older cows not suitable?

flatout11

49801 wrote: »

I am struggling as to why you are including a cost for a C-section.
I have a couple of big commercial cows that should be able to calf unassisted. QUOTE]

they may calve unassisated - some pure bb are quite handy when born
however if it appears to be difficult i would opt for the c-section rather than taking the rish of a difficult jack - time and effort wasted
just worth adding into the budget
and i would do two with the hope of getting 1 on the ground anything else is a bonus
re the younger female...
there is 2 lines of thought
typically Cr is 10 % higher in heifers they are not suckling and the process is simpler
however if you have fertile cows the may prove a better option as a porportion of heifers though reproductively normal will be sub/infertile - small porportion - additionally the cow would be a better mother (more milk) and have a greater chance of calving.

some of the operators will also supply the replacements (extra cost involved) to avoid the hassle involved for some clients in sourcing these.
personally if you have the cows i would go this route
i presume its kildare your looking at the embryos.. would you not buy one scanned incalf?

49801

flatout11 wrote: »

49801 wrote: »

I am struggling as to why you are including a cost for a C-section.
I have a couple of big commercial cows that should be able to calf unassisted. QUOTE]

they may calve unassisated - some pure bb are quite handy when born
however if it appears to be difficult i would opt for the c-section rather than taking the rish of a difficult jack - time and effort wasted
just worth adding into the budget
and i would do two with the hope of getting 1 on the ground anything else is a bonus
re the younger female...
there is 2 lines of thought
typically Cr is 10 % higher in heifers they are not suckling and the process is simpler
however if you have fertile cows the may prove a better option as a porportion of heifers though reproductively normal will be sub/infertile - small porportion - additionally the cow would be a better mother (more milk) and have a greater chance of calving.

some of the operators will also supply the replacements (extra cost involved) to avoid the hassle involved for some clients in sourcing these.
personally if you have the cows i would go this route
i presume its kildare your looking at the embryos.. would you not buy one scanned incalf?

Thanks.
I knew nothing about ET until this morning. What I like about ET is that you could get a super duper animal out with the absolute best genetics.

Replacements are a problem for me here and i'am just exploring the options like ET. I'am trying to grow a herd with predominately SI Dams. With the cattle market the way it is i cant afford to be buying the type of animal i want. And finding a good maternal bull that will calf easy will be difficult.

I think if i'd a pedigree animal that we practiced AI on would be a reliable way of producing replacement stock bulls (assume 50/50 M/F). the females would be useful too!

king_m

Hey 49801,
I have transfered bb 3 embyros into 3 reciepents I had on the farm last January and they all took ( lucky me), plan to section next October, like a few have said above it is a bit costly for the gamble. The three reciepts were given fresh eggs which are supposed to have a higher conception rate. I went to a supplier in the midlands cost 450 euro per egg, straw and insemination.

whelan1

49801 wrote: »

ok,
i see premier embyro's recommend only using young animals for recipients.
why are older cows not suitable?

heifers are seen as "clean" iykwim, we only used heifers as recipients when we where doing embryo transfers... its hit and miss one time we got 8 eggs , 8 pregnancies and 8 live bull calves ... next time was a disaster:cool:

49801

whelan1 wrote: »

heifers are seen as "clean" iykwim, we only used heifers as recipients when we where doing embryo transfers... its hit and miss one time we got 8 eggs , 8 pregnancies and 8 live bull calves ... next time was a disaster:cool:

i see.... doesn't seem right using an unproven Dam with ET with the potential for c-section also greatly increased.

I've SAx hiefers that i've AI'ed to SEV. will see results this Nov/Dec.
(preemptive comment:I know its a risky move so no need for any1 to dress me down). I know i've said it already but am hoping the calves could be replacements. I found i could observe heifers bulling on slats and felt it would be worth trying.

450 does not seem bad but still does not include prepping the recipient and overseeing vet costs.

I'd be interested to know what genetic traits are you chasing that you felt the need to go ET?

Charlie Charolais

king_m wrote: »

Hey 49801,
I have transfered bb 3 embyros into 3 reciepents I had on the farm last January and they all took ( lucky me), plan to section next October, like a few have said above it is a bit costly for the gamble. The three reciepts were given fresh eggs which are supposed to have a higher conception rate. I went to a supplier in the midlands cost 450 euro per egg, straw and insemination.

did u calf?

king_m

Calved down the 3 cows two weeks ago, operation on all three, did not even contemplate jacking. Came out with two heifers and a bull, they needed alot of attention and the bull had bad pneunomia, but all over now and they are all sucking and self sufficiant, with the cows taking to them. So if they keep thriving i will be happy fingers crossed.