What's the most important part of wrestling promos?

jaykhunter

There are several aspects to promos; but which do you think is most important :
Delivery?
Catchphrases?
Content?
Crowd working?
Charisma?
Believability/being natural?

Have I missed out on anything? Which one makes for the most effective promo (i.e. which entertains the crowd the best)?

DM_7

How natural it comes across. It doesn't matter what is in a promo if it doesn't sound like the words of the person giving the promo.

I think all the things you mentioned already add the balance.

Cathphrases can be dodgy. The Miz delivering I'm awesome at the end of every Promo annoys me. But if its Stone Cold (Said so) or the Rock (Rock is cooking) delivering them I enjoy the nostalgia.

On the other hand when Miz says really, really its a cathprase but used properly it gives me a giggle. Its a bit like when the rock sucks smeone in and replies with It Doesn't matter.....

Justin Ternet

A tremendous topic. How did you think of it?

Machismo Fan

Believability. No matter how good the delivery is, if it's not believable people simply won't buy it (which is somebody like Miz's biggest problem). The likes of Foley and Piper completely nailed it in that regard.

waltersobchak

For me personally, this is the perfect promo..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRa-Yh6HAUM

rovert

jaykhunter wrote: »

There are several aspects to promos; but which do you think is most important :
Delivery?
Catchphrases?
Content?
Crowd working?


Have I missed out on anything?

WRONG
WRONG
WRONG
WRONG
WRONG :pac:

Promo is sort for promotional interview. It should be an effective tool to get people to "buy a ticket." Things like catchphrases or be entertaining re:funny are auxiliary elements.

jaykhunter wrote: »

Which one makes for the most effective promo (i.e. which entertains the crowd the best)?

Bruce Mitchell on PWTorch would literally go through you if you sad that him and Cornette would hit you with his tennis racket. :P

TherapyBoy

"On balance off balance, doesn't matter. I'm better than you"

jaykhunter

eh... ok I'm not a huge fan of the goofy "car salesman" promos of Cornette :pac:

Personally I think catchphrases are amazing for getting the crowd excited and involved; but will only get you so far (Del Rio being a prime example of catchphrases and no substance - intially a big bang, but will get boring) but yes, sounding natural/believability is a probably the most important aspect. If it looks like you don't believe what you're saying, nobody else will and it'll be hard to get over. That said, John Cena does it every week...

From seeing WWE and ROH, i generally don't see a problem with delivery, but more content and catchphrases being the very weak areas. A lot of people in TNA have good content and delivery in their promos; it's not really a problem in their company (the booking and explaining end is).

What do you think they teach at promo class in WWE?

rovert

waltersobchak wrote: »

For me personally, this is the perfect promo..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRa-Yh6HAUM

Dear god a) it didnt draw any money (external circumstances I know) b) that horrible Shane Douglas he is "shooting" stuff c) did it really build up a match or feud?

Terry Funk, Foley, Raven and even New Jack cut better promos.

jaykhunter

rovert bro can u not quote videos or long reams of text? It makes the page harder to read and less nice. Cheers!

Shoots are something that should only be done on a very rare basis; otherwise it just looks like your company is run by cowboys and you can't believe in storylines. Like CM Punk cut amazing promos over the last 2 months but a shoot promo each week would become tiresome pretty quickly.

DM_7

jaykhunter wrote: »

Like CM Punk cut amazing promos over the last 2 months but a shoot promo each week would become tiresome pretty quickly.

I don't think they were shoots though.

jaykhunter

Nah course Punk knew where to go/where not to go/always sell the PPV etc but I meant shoot-topics; complaining about the company, mentioning backstage politics, etc etc. That crap gets annoying and ineffective very fast. Anderson goes there every week and it's really lost all sting.

DM_7

Oh right, I don't watch TNA so I wouldn't be aware of that.

jaykhunter

<SNIP> Merged some needless posts

jaykhunter

As a self-promotional interview it might just be the greatest of all time - it got him in the middle of a bidding war between WCW & WWF.

remember to keep it respectful guys.

rovert

jaykhunter wrote: »

Rovert, care to give us your thoughts on what makes a great promo?

"buy a ticket" is a very vague answer. It's like a coach telling a football team to "just win the match"

I was intentionally vague as Wrestler's aren't just selling a ticket to the Colosseum on Monday Night anymore there's PPV and other considerations.

At the end of the day a great promo is something that compels someone to invest their money or time into what is being promoted. So of course delivery is important. Content is too you need to communicate the who, what, when, where and why in a logical and clear manner?

Vince135792003

A great promo should build anticipation for a match and make you want to see the 2 people fight.

A great promo helps you to believe in an angle and as a result you buy into an angle figuratively and I guess monetarily too.

I really liked the Mick Foley/Orton angle. Foleys return promo after being spat on is one of my favourites and really made me want to see the 2 fight.

Another Foley promo was in his feud with Triple H. When he transformed from Mankind to Cactus Jack, I literally couldn't wait to see them fight at the Royal Rumble.

Another example of a promo that built anticipation for me as a kid was Jake Roberts promo at Wrestlemania 6 against Ted Di Biase. I hated the Million Dollar Man and that promo had me totally revved up.

jaykhunter

I know you're a smart lad so I was hoping you'd chime in on the different aspects of promos (as listed in the OP) there's so much more to promos than the basic laundry list of information you need to get across.

I don't know what other reaction you were expecting to shítting on Walter's favourite promo. You've both made your feelings clear so hopefully that's the end of it?

TBH WWE do a lot of word-association/repetition (episodic, longest-running; ADR = Destiny, DB = Nerd etc) and it seems to work really well. So initially i'd call for everyone to get a catchphrase together. Look at Zack Ryder, he's a catchphrase machine! I reckon it's the quickest way to get over on the mic.

parker kent

This thread is a wonderful example on how to build tension and anticipation of an impending rumble :pac:

Anyhoo...believability and delivery are the two most important things for me. The best promos have some combination of those elements. Austin, Paul Heyman, Vince McMahon and Punk have both aspects. Macho Man, Hogan and The Rock have delivery. I love promos that have passion and you really believe that what they are saying matters. That's why Punk's 2 famous promos worked so well. It was so authentic and so well delivered. RVD had a similar promo at One Night Stand. Whilst the content had insider stuff, that is not that made them brilliant. The passion of their delivery made them brilliant.

Whereas the promos I don't like tend to feel forced. They feel like they are not natural, that they are rehearsed and spitting out lines written by a failed TV writer. Whereas the best feel like the pure expression of exactly what that character feels.

parker kent

Plus it goes without saying that a promo should either build anticipation and make you want to see the eventual match down the line or else help get somebody over. So since it goes without saying, I won't say any more :pac:

jaykhunter

parker kent wrote: »

Plus it goes without saying that a promo should either build anticipation and make you want to see the eventual match down the line or else help get somebody over. So since it goes without saying, I won't say any more :pac:

LOL!

Do you think psychology of promos can be taught? Like the 'why' of a promo? Like would getting in Foley etc to help out the younglings with promos be a big help?

Are the Rock's promo skills transferrable to young talent?

waltersobchak

jaykhunter wrote: »

LOL!

Do you think psychology of promos can be taught? Like the 'why' of a promo? Like would getting in Foley etc to help out the younglings with promos be a big help?

Are the Rock's promo skills transferrable to young talent?

Stuff like that DEFINITELY can't be taught, some people are just natural storytellers whether it's in the ring like Benoit or HBK etc etc or on the mic like Rock, Foley etc etc.. Some people just have natural flair and charisma

parker kent

jaykhunter wrote: »

Do you think psychology of promos can be taught? Like the 'why' of a promo? Like would getting in Foley etc to help out the younglings with promos be a big help?

Definitely. The likes of Foley, Macho Man, Mr Perfect, Austin and Punk show the benefits of learning in the indies/territories. They honed their acts over years and they received help from all sorts of guys who could cut killer promos. A combination of help and time really improves promos.

A lot of the WWE guys now are thrown out there without finding their voice. Steve Austin was a naturally brilliant promo guy, but little things like his short stay in ECW really helped him along. Ditto Mick Foley as Cactus Jack in ECW.

Now not everybody will reach the top level, but I think the Young Padawans could do with learning from the masters :P

parker kent

Nice use of definitely in the last 2 posts :pac:

I think natural flair and charisma exist, but look at The Rock for example. He had a few years with top promo guys around him and that had to help him out. His early stuff was crap. A few years of being around Austin, Foley etc cannot have harmed his promos. Then add in that Vince and other stooges backstage would have helped him too.

rovert

parker kent wrote: »

Nice use of definitely in the last 2 posts :pac:

I think natural flair and charisma exist, but look at The Rock for example. He had a few years with top promo guys around him and that had to help him out. His early stuff was crap. A few years of being around Austin, Foley etc cannot have harmed his promos. Then add in that Vince and other stooges backstage would have helped him too.

Without hurting your feelings Rock was always solid to very good on the mic in my opinion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sux6JxKhGg8

flahavaj

Some of the greatest promos of all time are one sthat haev an element of truth to them, even if they're being cut by a heel. If you believe what you're saying the audience will believe you too.

jaykhunter

Definitely

I forgot to mention the absolute easiest way to get a cheap pop (no, not that one); slagging off your opponent without rebuttal. HHH was a demon for getting his digs in and never getting it back.

A lot of JoMo/Miz's work in their tag run was largely just slagging off their opponents; (although there was clearly some talent and charisma there too!)

Call Orton out on his "effeminate child-bearing hips" and the crowd will eat it up! I don't like this at all but i have to admit somewhere it is a guilty pleasure sometimes.

parker kent

rovert wrote: »

Without hurting your feelings Rock was always solid to very good on the mic in my opinion:

I should say that by his early stuff, I mean in the WWF. It took him a while to learn how to play large crowds. As I said, natural flair and charisma exist. But that has to be honed.

waltersobchak

parker kent wrote: »

Definitely. The likes of Foley, Macho Man, Mr Perfect, Austin and Punk show the benefits of learning in the indies/territories. They honed their acts over years and they received help from all sorts of guys who could cut killer promos. A combination of help and time really improves promos.

A lot of the WWE guys now are thrown out there without finding their voice. Steve Austin was a naturally brilliant promo guy, but little things like his short stay in ECW really helped him along. Ditto Mick Foley as Cactus Jack in ECW.

Now not everybody will reach the top level, but I think the Young Padawans could do with learning from the masters :P

There's no 2 ways about it.. Wrestlers of the past having time to develop and perfect their persona's and promo's in the territories and at live events rather than on a weekly TV show, created far greater characters, something the clones in FCW will never be able to do, no matter how much help they get from the old timers..

jaykhunter

flahavaj wrote: »

Some of the greatest promos of all time are one sthat haev an element of truth to them, even if they're being cut by a heel. If you believe what you're saying the audience will believe you too.

I'd definitely agree this resonates with the audience when there's an element of truth; I'm trying to think of why Foley's are so good. Talking about the real elements of a (fake) character is also 'reality' if done right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iw0lVzeF_g

Holy God, we were very lucky in the Attitude Era. I don't think you can really teach that

rovert

parker kent wrote: »

I should say that by his early stuff, I mean in the WWF. It took him a while to learn how to play large crowds. As I said, natural flair and charisma exist. But that has to be honed.

It was more his passe smiley smiley character IMO.

You are right about honed part Rock very genuinely spent hours and hours practicing in the mirror as a teenager.

parker kent

rovert wrote: »

It was more his passe smiley smiley character IMO.

You are right about honed part Rock very genuinely spent hours and hours practicing in the mirror as a teenager.

I include his early Nation of Domination heel turn promos as well.

My favourite promos are varied:

I loved the early Mankind promos. This post under the You Tube video says it perfectly! "This was epic. Mankind was always just Cactus Jack in a mask. That pain and poetry and sick sympathy that you can't help but feel for this crazy ass individual; that is what Foley did best. He made you understand a psychopath and love someone so ugly as Mankind. I think that was what he was going for, to take the ugliness of life and pain and suffering and insanity and mixed it all into this one individual."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYrdpZjIQUQ

Then moving into something different, here is RVD burning up the mic at ONS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DV8s4Rj-CKU

jmolloy

this is one of those how long is a piece of thread style arguments. very few promo's have all the qualities listed in the initial post. i always think believeability is a big thing and that's why i liked punk's but i like the jokey promo's too. big fan of all the rock's promo. it really does just come down to whoever's doing it, i really despise some of cena's jokey promo's for example but other's i think are good

MitchKoobski

CHARISMA

You can't teach it. You can teach delivery, write a catchphrase, fill content, get cheap pops from a crowd, and do enough promos and you'll be able to deliver them well enough to make them believable but without the charisma to back it up its nothing but a script in your hands to feed to the crowd.

Charisma gives you off the cuff remarks, lets you feed off the crowds responses, lets you deliver a promo without having a script in front of you.

Miz was given a catchphrase or came up with it himself, but without his charisma and how he chose to deliver it and pronounce it, it'd be nothing but the words "I'm awesome" at the end of a sentence. His charisma within his promos led him to shout it out as "and I'M.....*pause for crowd awesome* AAAAAWWWWWWEEESOOOOOOOOOOOMMMEE".

You can teach someone for years to deliver a promo until they are nearly as good as early Nation of Domination Rock, but they still need their own charisma and attitude, that they themselves bring to the table, to be able to get up to that final step.

jaykhunter

Justin Ternet wrote: »

A tremendous topic. How did you think of it?

Ha, this stems from tweets we had from a promo class Justin held @ FFPW on the weekend.

Thinking about MitchKoobski's post; if you have charisma, do you need anything else? Like Batista was a horrible promo but his charisma carried the day; a lot of our favourite promos from the 80s made no sense and didn't follow any kind of formula (Macho, Warrior, Dusty etc)....you can ride on charisma alone, which likely wouldn't be the case with the other aspects of promo that's been mentioned.

I know i'm a big Rock fan, but his Nation of Domination promos in late 97 were awesome IMO. I loved that he said 'thank you very much' at the end of his promos despite being very conceited and boo'ed by the fans. Always a massive fan of his stuff (heel turn in 97 onwards)

MitchKoobski

jaykhunter wrote: »

Thinking about MitchKoobski's post; if you have charisma, do you need anything else? Like Batista was a horrible promo but his charisma carried the day; a lot of our favourite promos from the 80s made no sense and didn't follow any kind of formula (Macho, Warrior, Dusty etc)....you can ride on charisma alone, which likely wouldn't be the case with the other aspects of promo that's been mentioned.

Charisma can win over anything. Batista was alright at promo imo, but had some awful ones which tarnished his promo reputation.

Personal fav:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoWX4Patfng

jaykhunter

Ah now c'mon, his last few months as a heel in WWE were brilliant; but preceeding that was about ~7 years of god-awful deadpan "I.....am gonna kick.......your ass" mediocrity.

briany

I read that wrestlers used to learn how to do interviews by conversing with the veterans of the time during long car journeys to and from shows. For various reasons, this practice is not really as widespread as it once was and that is a pity.

Here's a video that encapsulates the difference in quality between the old school and the latest crop in the new school. It goes from a decidedly wooden exchange (see the mansion foyer cutscene from Res Evil 1 for comparison) from the youngsters to a great stream of consciousness seeming rambling monologue from the veteran.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS7QM9Pp8Wg

Check out the youngsters smiling as they know they are getting pretty well schooled here.

Fromthetrees

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBByxIOxEm8

Justin Ternet

This is all you need to know about wrestling Promos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MISUHTo2NDs

jaykhunter

I LOVE JUMPIN' JEFF!









YUPP! :pac:

the groutch

this is one of my favorites because you had two faces, equally good at cutting promos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rd2zhPN5-Es

D2D

Fromthetrees wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBByxIOxEm8

Why is this here?

jaykhunter

No ideas, i immediately turn off anything mma unless i see Lesnar!

Is it just me or has the acting in wrestling got worse recently? Maybe it's the writing or that situations feel more contrived (Lynn/RVD; velvet/mj/karen, Nash/HHH etc) but my God, the fake-ness is slapping me in the face like a halibut to the jaw.