New solution to prison overcrowding

Prison overcrowding Alan Shatter

MINISTER FOR Justice Alan Shatter is considering releasing long-term prisoners early as a way of controlling worsening prison overcrowding.
The radical proposal is being reviewed at a time when almost 750, mostly short-sentence, inmates are already afforded early release because there is no room for them in overcrowded jails.
A Government-appointed expert group last month warned that 30 per cent of the 4,500 prison population will be on early release, also called temporary release, by 2016 if nothing is done to solve overcrowding.
Mr Shatter has asked senior officials to review a proposal that would mean inmates who are serving long sentences would be released early to free up space. “I have asked my officials to look at a scheme where suitable long-term prisoners might have the last period of their custodial sentence replaced by a form of community service,” he said.
It is unclear what the criteria for early release from long sentences may be. The risk posed by a criminal after release, their willingness to engage in rehabilitative programmes in jail and the nature of their crimes would likely be taken into account. The impact of their release on victims and victims’ families would also likely be considered.
The proposal to release long-sentence inmates early to free up space in jails comes at a time of worsening overcrowding.
Since 2005 the number of prisoners serving sentences from five years to life jumped by 51 per cent. This group, numbering 1,480, now accounts for just over one-third of the prison population.
These long-term prisoners have effectively become the prison system’s “bed blockers”, absorbing much of the accommodation.
The average number of inmates on temporary release in 2007 was 4.4 per cent of the prison population. But that has now reached 17 per cent, or between 720 and 750 inmates on any one day.
While the releases are referred to as “temporary”, they are in fact “early” releases. The inmates are not required to return to prison after a set period of freedom, as is the case with traditional temporary releases.
Already, temporary releases from Cork Prison have reached 35 per cent because of a lack of space and 21 per cent of the population of Mountjoy is on release because there is no space.

http://theirishobserver.blogspot.com/2011/08/prison-overcrowding-alan-shatter.html

Great idea :rolleyes:

Son Of A Vidic

Here's my solution, cheap also.

mikemac

Why did they close Spike Island so if there is overcrowding?

Emiko

Good. It'll help make legalising cannabis an economic necessity.

Guy:Incognito

Buy up a couple of old ocean liners that are bing decommissioned, pack them in and set it adrift in the Atlanic.

7sr2z3fely84g5

Life doesn't mean life in ireland,its random and you get out if the parole board/justice minister accept the findings.

Mr. Denton

Serious question here. I always wondered : how much of a costsaver would it be to build individual prison cells where you literally "lock em up and throw away the key" for the duration. Give them a bed, three meals and a bucket to **** in. No visitors, no rec time and no interaction with others prisoners. Basically solitary confinement for every prisoner.

amacca

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Here's my solution, cheap also.

that prisoner could do without the chair dontcha think?....looks way too comfortable imo!

El Weirdo

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Here's my solution, cheap also.

It costs more to execute someone than to keep them in prison for life.

7sr2z3fely84g5

Mr. Denton wrote: »

Serious question here. I always wondered : how much of a costsaver would it be to build individual prison cells where you literally "lock em up and throw away the key" for the duration. Give them a bed, three meals and a bucket to **** in. No visitors, no rec time and no interaction with others prisoners. Basically solitary confinement for every prisoner.

look at usa,the build more prisons to jail them all,and have more prisoners in the world of prison populations.

China approach to justice seems fair.

Fago!

Do as Metallica would do - kill 'em all.

amacca

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Buy up a couple of old ocean liners that are bing decommissioned, pack them in and set it adrift in the Atlanic.

+ film and broadcast the "shenanigans" that go on when they run out of what little food and water you left them as a ppv event to fund the whole thing...

it would definitely finance itself and probably even turn a tidy profit:pac:

irish_eyes

how about deport them all to the UK!

FortuneChip

Right, completely original idea. Put 100 of them all on a deserted island. Give them all a shovel and a pack of Haribo. Last 5 left alive are allowed back into Prison. Repeat as necessary.

Guy:Incognito

Mr. Denton wrote: »

Serious question here. I always wondered : how much of a costsaver would it be to build individual prison cells where you literally "lock em up and throw away the key" for the duration. Give them a bed, three meals and a bucket to **** in. No visitors, no rec time and no interaction with others prisoners. Basically solitary confinement for every prisoner.

The bleeding hearts wont let you do that is the probelm. Prisoners have rights dont'cha know.:rolleyes:

Magic Beans

El Weirdo wrote: »

It costs more to execute someone than to keep them in prison for life.

How do you work that out? :rolleyes:

Ruu_Old

mmm soylent green wafers!

Guy:Incognito

irish_eyes wrote: »

how about deport them all to the UK!

Better still, a massive island at the other end of the world. The more dogs head shaped the better

Jam

Mr. Denton wrote: »

Basically solitary confinement for every prisoner.

Then it becomes a human rights issue. Mental health. And what if the poor bloke is wrongly convicted? Justice is never 100%.

El Weirdo wrote:

It costs more to execute someone than to keep them in prison for life.

Three bullets? No. With lawyers and bureaucracy, yes. I know I'm drastically simplifying here too.

Fago!

Haha, that guy's name is Alan Shatter!

El Weirdo

Magic Beans wrote: »

How do you work that out? :rolleyes:

See here.

Oh, and...:rolleyes:

Just do away with prison altogether will be next, this country is a joke, especially the so called justice system :mad:

Life should mean life for a start!

Yakult

So they release these prisoner's to clear up space and then these released prisoner's recommit crimes, end up back their wasting more police time/court time and wasting tax payers money.

Great fùcking idea.

the bolt

Mr. Denton wrote: »

Serious question here. I always wondered : how much of a costsaver would it be to build individual prison cells where you literally "lock em up and throw away the key" for the duration. Give them a bed, three meals and a bucket to **** in. No visitors, no rec time and no interaction with others prisoners. Basically solitary confinement for every prisoner.

have you thought about this at all,can you imagine the person after he got out, even after a year or two.

Greentopia

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The bleeding hearts wont let you do that is the probelm. Prisoners have rights dont'cha know.:rolleyes:

Bleeding hearts...libs...HERP DERP...Socialists...lefties...blah blah blah...

El Weirdo

the bolt wrote: »

have you thought about this at all,can you imagine the person after he got out, even after a year or two.

No. No one that comes into these threads mouthing off about how "we should just-lock-people-up-and-throw-away-the-key-or-even-better-just-shoot-them-and-have-it-done-with" ever actually *thinks* about things.

Sticky_Fingers

Ruu wrote: »

mmm soylent green wafers!

I can just imagine the marketing campaign:

Mountjoy Soylent Green, tastes like a piebald sh!tting in your mouth

Mike 1972

Can anyone explain why it actually costs so much to keep a person in prison in Ireland and/or why is is necessary to have almost as many staff in prisons as actual prisoners without spouting shyte about plasma screens and Xboxes ?

Guy:Incognito

Greentopia wrote: »

Bleeding hearts...libs...HERP DERP...Socialists...lefties...blah blah blah...

Well its not me out there campaigning on behalf of the poor downtrodden prisoners. If people stop defending people that dont deserve defending and put their efforts in to causes that help the right thinking members of society, the world would be a better place and I'd speak about them in more flattering terms.

Guy:Incognito

El Weirdo wrote: »

No. No one that comes into these threads mouthing off about how "we should just-lock-people-up-and-throw-away-the-key-or-even-better-just-shoot-them-and-have-it-done-with" ever actually *thinks* about things.

They're not the only ones. The people giving them comfy cells with tvs and playstation access and making sure they can live their lives as they did before with the minor inconvenience of having to be in the same building everyday are not exactly curing crime are they.

At least if they came out and reoffended having suffered inside, it would be a small sense of justice. As it is, they have it easy, come out and reoffend anyway.

Run_to_da_hills

El Weirdo wrote: »

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Here's my solution, cheap also.

It costs more to execute someone than to keep them in prison for life.

Not in some countries, I.e China & Iran

El Weirdo

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Not in some countries, I.e China & Iran

Brilliant.

mcmoustache

El Weirdo wrote: »

See here.

Oh, and...:rolleyes:

That doesn't demonstrate that an execution is more expensive. It shows that the 20 year appeals process is more expensive. The killing part is pretty cheap.

RichieC

Mr. Denton wrote: »

Serious question here. I always wondered : how much of a costsaver would it be to build individual prison cells where you literally "lock em up and throw away the key" for the duration. Give them a bed, three meals and a bucket to **** in. No visitors, no rec time and no interaction with others prisoners. Basically solitary confinement for every prisoner.

Probably a bit cheaper, perhaps we should rent an Archipelago from Russia.

Mr. Denton

the bolt wrote: »

have you thought about this at all,can you imagine the person after he got out, even after a year or two.

Absolutely. I reckon most people wouldn't even last a couple of weeks. It'd certainly wipe the smile off the faces of career criminals who see a couple of years in jail as par for the course and a chance to catch up with mates inside.

Who knows maybe you could even couple up by introducing a shorter sentencing to level off the severity of the conditions. Might even solve the problem of prison overcrowding as a result.

El Weirdo

mcmoustache wrote: »

That doesn't demonstrate that an execution is more expensive. It shows that the 20 year appeals process is more expensive. The killing part is pretty cheap.

Well, would you not want to be damn sure that you're not killing an innocent person?

Richard Hillman

1. Deport all foreign criminals in prison apart from Murderers and rapists. There are not that many but it will reduce it slightly. My reasoning behind keeping murderers and rapists is because their victims deserve justice. The rest are mostly people caught trying to import drugs into Ireland. Everyone will be barred from Ireland for life

2. Introduce prison ships

3. Create outdoor tent prisons similar to the one in Arizona. Too cold? boo hoo!

FGR

The reason why the US has such a large prison population is due to the fact that their justice system passes much harsher penalties than their European counterparts.

The three strike system alone in some states indicates that you'll do a mandatory 10 years on a third offence whereas in Ireland it's usually the same people going in and out - the so called 'revolving door'.

I'm an avid believer in building prisons and ensuring that those convicted serve every single day of their sentence - the benefit of 'good behaviour' only being taken into account in the most exceptional of circumstances whereby those in custody aid in the basic running of the prison (cleaning/laundry and the like) and not once contribute to any breach of discipline.

I'd gladly see my tax money go back into opening Spike Island. I'd also like to see some sort of system ala 'chain gang' being brought in. Very hard to introduce in a country where a criminal's rights tend to exceed those of the victim of crime.

Shane L

As previous poster stated... "real" criminals who are a danger to society. So many doing time for drugs it should be legalised and taxed at least then we could pay for some decent rehabilitation centres! What if we made prisons into factories of sorts of cheap goods? Prisoners pay back what they owe society through labour

Stercus Accidit

Why not outsource the cost of housing prisoners?

Repeat offenders would not get the luxury of an Irish cell, they would be kept at a privately run prison in another country. We would pay to have them kept there, much cheaper than here as the cost of doing business in the chosen country would be much lower.

We are in a global economy and have a very expensive country to live in, why not save costs and space in our prisons by paying to have sentences for repeat offenders served abroad?

Greentopia

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Well its not me out there campaigning on behalf of the poor downtrodden prisoners. If people stop defending people that dont deserve defending and put their efforts in to causes that help the right thinking members of society, the world would be a better place and I'd speak about them in more flattering terms.

Campaigning on behalf of penal reform is not the same thing as condoning or defending the crimes prisoners commit.

Using words like libs, bleeding hearts etc as pejorative terms indicating laziness and someone without the capacity for independent thought and critical thinking.

FGR

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

Why not outsource the cost of housing prisoners?

This is where our good EU neighbours Poland/Latvia/Lithuania come into play.

Great value prison spaces with EU membership allowing for a human rights satisfaction guarantee*..!

*guarantee will not be honoured :pac:

borderlinemeath

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

Why not outsource the cost of housing prisoners?

Repeat offenders would not get the luxury of an Irish cell, they would be kept at a privately run prison in another country. We would pay to have them kept there, much cheaper than here as the cost of doing business in the chosen country would be much lower.

We are in a global economy and have a very expensive country to live in, why not save costs and space in our prisons by paying to have sentences for repeat offenders served abroad?

Were you reading my post from earlier today in the unpopular opinions thread?

borderlinemeath I don't understand how it cost's so fcuking much to look after prisoners. We should outsource prisons to China/India/Bangladesh where it's far cheaper to run a business. And all the prisoners can be flown over on cheap Ryanair flights.
If a criminal thought he would get shipped off to the far east for a stretch rather that serving about 10% of his actual sentence in the Joy cos of overcrowding - he might think twice about doing the crime.

Saila

pack them in likes sardines, its not a holiday camp ffs!

Daniel S

El Weirdo wrote: »

It costs more to execute someone than to keep them in prison for life.

Really? I'm surprised tbh. (Not being sarcastic or mean or anything )

Kidchameleon

El Weirdo wrote: »

Well, would you not want to be damn sure that you're not killing an innocent person?

So it would be OK to lock up an innocent person for 20 years? "Sorry lad we made a mistake, GTFO!" Id rather be dead to be honest...

El Weirdo

Kidchameleon wrote: »

So it would be OK to lock up an innocent person for 20 years? "Sorry lad we made a mistake, GTFO!" Id rather be dead to be honest...

I don't know. Why don't you ask the Guildford 4 or the Birmingham 6?

-Trek-

Ship them to Australia.

RichieC

mtb_kng wrote: »

Really? I'm surprised tbh. (Not being sarcastic or mean or anything )

up to 70% more expensive in some cases.

Dangerous Man

I read about this yesterday and felt like cracking my head off the wall. I'm actually surprised at Shatter - I thought he'd have a bit more intelligence than this. This is so stupid - so painfully idiotic that I really do despair.

I've been a heavy critic of the Gardai for years but I've always been aware of the fact that their job contains a large degree of redundancy given the nature of our legal system. Putting more criminals back on the streets where they WILL re-offend will only lead to more pressure on a force already suffering from cutbacks.

That will lead to an increase in crime which will lead to an increase in arrests. Which, in turn, will lead to an increase in people going before the courts. And that will lead to an increase in suspended sentences (because there still won't be room at the lock-inn.) And, this will lead to a decrease in the morale of AGS.

What's frustrating about all of this is that there was a fairly simple solution to this. I say was because we no longer have the money to implement a plan that would solve these issues.

Do bear in mind that these are just ideas - and are not fully fleshed out / costed. I think they'd serve well as launching boards to explore more specific ideas of crime and punishment in Ireland.

The first thing we needed to do was to seperate crime into distinct categories - custodial and non-custodial. One of the problems, as I see it, is that no such distinction exists in our system. Anybody can be sent to prison for more or less anything in Ireland. We've all heard of people being sent to prison for owing small amounts of money or not paying a TV licence; I remember a case from a few years ago where a man who refused to pay a fine for littering (he insisted on his innocence) was sent to prison. That should not happen. It should be carved into law that only serious crimes are deemed worthy of prison. (I would add that repeat offenders can be considered as applicable to this distinction under certain circumstances.)

Those that are found guilty of committing of what would be considered petty or not-custodial crime could be issued a fine, community service or in some cases tagged to prevent their free movement - depending on the crime and the person's previous convictions (if any.)

In terms of serious crime - serious time. Those who are convicted of crimes such as armed robbery, certain types of assault, rape, kidnapping or murder etc should be in prison for a long time indeed. It's a cliche but life should mean life.

I believe we could free up quite an amount of space in our prisons if we place reasonable restrictions upon the powers of our judges.

Cianos

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

Why not outsource the cost of housing prisoners?

Repeat offenders would not get the luxury of an Irish cell, they would be kept at a privately run prison in another country. We would pay to have them kept there, much cheaper than here as the cost of doing business in the chosen country would be much lower.

We are in a global economy and have a very expensive country to live in, why not save costs and space in our prisons by paying to have sentences for repeat offenders served abroad?

This is actually a really good idea. And this is coming from a bleeding hearts liberal do gooder.