City centre discussed on Newstalk this morning

boomerang

Anyone else catch the discussion this morning on Newstalk about the "donut effect" and slow death of the city centre in Limerick? Made for very sad listening. Listen back on the Newstalk website, Part II, 14 minutes in.

http://www.newstalk.ie/programmes/all/breakfast/listen-back/

QueensGael

I thought it gave a very good overview of how the city has gone to ruin because of poor, disjointed planning. I've been explaining the situation over the past few years to friends who don't know Limerick, and this had the facts and figures to back up my observations. (I lived there for 20 years, but I'm now in exile

In addition to the suburban big box stores, there were problems with Limerick city centre before this. A few off the top of my head:

• The retail units on Cruises Street were too small to retain large, multiple retail outlet. As soon as bigger units became available in the Crescent SC and near Claughaun, they hightailed out to the larger, more scalable units (Next, for instance)
• Arthurs Quay SC doesn't have any attractive stores in it; the upstairs retail units never attracted footfall, even from Sails Restaurant
• The loss of the cinema in the city centre was a big blow. No reason to go into town at night if you weren't going for a drink.

I'm saddened to hear that the area around Docs/The Granary has gone into such rack and ruin. There was a great vibe around that area back in the late 1990s.

So what can be done to fix this? Will the merged City and County Council put together an integrated plan for the city? Thought?

AnCapaillMor

Parkings alot to do with it as well, i'd go to the crescent as i wouldn't have to spend 15 minutes driing around looking for a non full car park and a further 10 mins driving around the multi storey fto find a space.

phill106

Well from seeing the desolation that is limerick on a daily basis, I expected the rest of the country to be the same. I was wrong!
I went to dublin a few weeks ago for a few days. Was buzzing, tourists EVERYWHERE and I don't think I saw a single closed shop.

I went to cork over the weekend (I don't go away often, i swear, just coincidence!) and again the city was very busy, even in the evening/night with people walking the streets, buskers doing their bit and stores open.

Compare that to the ghosttown that is limerick. I'd say send the limerick councillors to cork dublin and galway to see how cities are run, but they would use it as a junket and claim the lot on expenses

jonski

AnCapaillMor wrote: »

Parkings alot to do with it as well, i'd go to the crescent as i wouldn't have to spend 15 minutes driing around looking for a non full car park and a further 10 mins driving around the multi storey fto find a space.

Same here , twice recently I needed to go into town for small things ( a birthday cake and a specific second hand book ) , quick run in and run back out items , but I couldn't find parking and having to go to a multi storey just isn't worth the hassle . The negative experience then just tends to put me off even thinking of town when I want something .

the drifter

How do you solve the parking issues though? You cant expect the multi stories to open for free. They have to make money as well. Even making on street parking free wont help on Saturdays as there isn't enough of it. I don't think there would be the take up to warrant a park and ride into the middle of the city.

To get the city centre back on its feet it needs a complete overhaul in both structure and marketing towards attracting retailers...this requires capital...which there is none of at the moment.

Also on rents...

This is a no win situation as well. The money to build these retail units was borrowed from banks and ridiculous rates.
Owners/ Developers of these units are now being called to repay this money. Reducing rents will not help there cause ( although my sympathy is lacking here)

Mr. TTime

I don't really get the parking argument - I was in Galway on a Saturday recently (where parking, driving issues are way worse than in Limerick) and the place was buzzing. Same can be said for Cork and Dublin (although public transport in Dublin is far superior than anywhere else in the country).

There are numerous issues which need to be addressed to bring people back into the city. Better shops with bigger names, Cruises St needs to be given a face-lift, night-time activities that don't revolve around pubs (seriously nothing to do in town after 7pm if you don't want to drink), empty the bins more frequently, promote the city-centre as a place to meet people and promote it locally (no point in attracting tourists to a place if the locals won't be there).

Most importantly - stop ignoring the river! You would never know that Limerick is founded on the biggest river in Ireland by walking down our main shopping streets. The council have been short-sighted about this for years and have always looked to inhibit visitors from seeing our biggest asset (whether intentionaly or not, it's still the same result). It'll take a long time for the city centre to create a similar vibe as can be found in Galway or Cork but we have to act now so that in the future we can be proud of our city and be proud to show it off to friends and tourists alike.

vkid

The big advantage Galway has are the streets are very narrow and only has a couple of main ones. It makes it feel a lot busier than it actually is. All Limericks Streets are very wide in comparison so it looks sparser. Thats not the full reason but it certainly helps make Galway look busy. Was up there last week as well and really noticed this. Was talking to a barber and 2 shop owners and they were saying despite what the media are saying Galway is pretty quiet this year relative to other years.

Poxyshamrock

I remember a former female Limerick mayor telling us at a meeting in The Strand Hotel how Limerick is thriving and with the redelevopment of William Street, Limerick will be even better.

She also said that for years Limerick turned its back on the river but in recent years the council have changed that. I asked her about the old ESB site and the old Dunnes as well as why all the river units bar Milanos on Harveys Quay are vacant and she ignored me. :rolleyes:

If I had been planning Harvey's Quay, I would have made sure Dunnes had an entrace onto the quays too.

kilburn

I don not get this parking crap that some people throw about. I have never not been able to get into a multi storey car park in Limerick because it was full. Thomas St car park and arthurs quay are never full and very central. You whinge and whine about the city falling down but yet you wont pay 1.80 to park and support the already struggling shops in the city.

Grumpypants

I was going to get some T-shirts for a holiday i had a choice between going to Heatons, or TK max and drive there in 10 mins park for free run into the shop and pop home in 10 mins, total time around 30 mins.

Or take 15 mins to get into town park up the top of O'Connell street, run to the shop pay 2euro for a disk, run back it in the car, walk down to the city centre. Pick up my T-shirt and walk all the way back and drive home for another 15 mins. OR mess around with a multi story car park which will cost me 1.80 even though i only need it for 10 mins.

Getting rid of half the Taxi ranks around the town and turning them into free 20-30 min pop in and out parking slots would make a huge difference to people who only want to jump in for one item and not to browse for hours.

Berty

Taxi ranks. LOL @ Taxi Demons

They have now decided, since the right hand lane has opened on William Street to park illegaly outside A-Wear prior to trying to get into the real Taxi lane on the left.

Parking in the city is easy and readily available UNLESS you try to park on the surface car park on Ellen Street. There is ALWAYS a queue for this because its only €1.50 per hour.

counterlock

kilburn wrote: »

I don not get this parking crap that some people throw about. I have never not been able to get into a multi storey car park in Limerick because it was full.

Yep, every time I've gone in, never had a problem. And I mean every single time.

I don't mind paying the few quid to park it up in the multistory, it always feels safer in there anyway.

kilburn

free parking on the streets in Limerick or in any other city would never work as the lazy fookers who work in town will just take them.

On the other hand the multi storeys could offer special rates to encourage people in at weekends.

why have 200 spaces full at 1.80 an hour when you could have 600 full at 50c an hour, less revenue yea but word of mouth and good rep is golden

Grumpypants

kilburn wrote: »

free parking on the streets in Limerick or in any other city would never work as the lazy fookers who work in town will just take them.

That's why you would need to set a 20-30 min limit, people wh work or who want to spend an hour or more pp into a multistory, those who just want to run in for one or two quick bits coudl then find a spot as there is a constant turn over.

Rather than just putting on the flashing lights and double parking.

kilburn

would be impossible to police

Resi12

I am sorry but people need to seriously get off/over the parking 'fiasco'. That is not it at all and the more people focus on that, the worse the actual problems get.

The fact is there are no good stores, it's that simple. William Street is basically Euroshop central. Then most of the shops on Cruises St/around the town all have another shop in the Crescent. Arthurs Quay is a dive. No cinema (this is so ludicrous, years and the council has still done NOTHING). There's no incentive to go too town unless you need something and this is from locals so why would tourists want to come for the shopping?!

The council are useless, I think any other would have filled the holes in somehow but the majority of stores still just sitting in tatters is disgraceful. Dunnes across from Pierone would be an amazing cafe/restaurant. Imagine the views from the window?

whatdoicare

I hate going into town lately - it's just depressing. The vibe is dismal with most of the shops either closed or turned into pound shops. I even hate meeting people for lunch there - it seems to be a much nicer experience in either the crescent or childers road to meet people and have a stroll around, especially if you have kids.
It was actually a million times easier to do all my Xmas shopping in the crescent last year and didn't bother trying to get into town - I got it all done in an hour and a half and chillaxed with a latte afterwards, no fuss no muss. In years before this it would have taken two - three trips into town as I would have had to drag all my purchases all the way around town and then onto a bus, painful.

The only way to fix the city would be to change it's purpose altogether - forget having it as the place to be for shopping - encourage entertainment and family friendly businesses.
Cinemas, play areas, proper skateboarding parks, fun areas,
proper restaurants that are kid friendly, toy stores,
far far more historic/science/educational/museum buildings,
more quirky shops that can't be found everywhere, a proper playhouse - the belltable is not adequate or modern,
the belltable needs to be renovated and updated to encourage tourists,
more tourist targetted bars/restaurants/shops

Now, the castle needs to get rid of that ugly ass glass building and there very badly needs to be a hell of a lot more going on inside it. The price they are asking for admission is crazy btw
The walkway needs to be finished properly and the old walkway badly updated! The buildings leading up to the castle also need to be turned into shops and restaurants - right now what is there? A run down casino and a chipper? It's a dodgy dodgy looking area for such a major landmark!!
That beautiful tourists bar attached to the castle needs to actually be open!!

Why oh why can't they do to the surrounding areas and the castle itself what they have done to Bunratty?? Why no feast banquets? No actors/tresses?? No old style working buildings? Maybe creating and docking a few old style fake boats and giving trips along the river?
There needs to be more to riverfest too - the whole summer, no two measly weeks!! More shows, more open air stuff to do! More parades!

A big thing they could have is what I saw in Brisbane - they had these, what looked like canvass, sheets covering the mains pedestrianised streets, making the streets sheltered from both rain and sun, very pleasant!

Of course, they need to do a way better job of keeping the city clean and tidy.


These changes wouldn't be insanely hard to do - they would make a world of difference to Limerick!

Mc Love

The parking can be sorted with an hours free parking in the multi-storeys. They have it 2 hours free in Pavillions shopping centre. That would bring people in to town.

I also think some shops in town should stay open til 8 or 9, as when I was in the states, many of the highstreet stores stayed open until this time and kept the buzz going

kilburn

it is amazing reading some peoples replies to threads here, makes you wonder do they actually have their eyes open when they walk around the city FFS

geotrig

the eurocar park does parking for a euro an hour on weekends to a max of 3 quid for the day which is great and i havent seen it full ever so the argument of parking is bollox.! I would choose town over any retail park but as been stated their is very little to go in for which is a pitty .It would be great to see a cinema in the centre again but i think that this would be the one that would suffer the most it would need to have some parking attached to and offer it for free once you attended the pics!

Delphi91

On the parking side of things, here are some of the situations I've come across in various places:

Bruges (Belgium) - Huge car park at the local train station, holds a couple of thousand cars. Parking for the day is relatively cheap - can't remember the exact price, but as part of the fee, you get a bus ride into the city centre included. Essentially a park and ride service, but the distance is short and the buses are very regular. The centre of Bruges is car-free, but buses can travel through.

Donegal Town - ridiculously cheap parking, some thing like 30c an hour with a max of €1.80 for the day - and this is in the centre of the town.

Letterkenny - multistory car park with the first hour free. Anyone who knows Letterkenny will know that there are a number of retail parks around the outskirts of the town within walking distance of the town centre, but the town is still very busy.

All it needs is a little creative thinking outside the box to attract people into the city centre.

While the increased pedestrianisation of Limerick could be argued to be a good thing, the widening of footpaths and the introduction of those smaller parking slots (2-3 cars max) will force people into multistory car parks. Consumers will then argue "Why should I pay for parking when I can go to the Crescent/Parkway, etc and park for free?", driving even more consumers from the city centre. I'm not sure that there's a lot of joined-up thinking going on here between the city council, chamber of commerce, etc.

Kess73

Car parking spaces is just an "issue" that gets chucked out as some kind of excuse for the city performing poorly whilst totally avoiding the fact that in order for people to use the parking spaces, and there are plenty in the car parks in the city centre every day, there has to be a certain number of shops, services, and facilities for attract people in the first place.


The shopping centres killing the city centre is another bit of shyte that gets banded about a lot. The Crescent shopping centre is the only proper shopping centre in Limerick and the only one that has a majority of it's units filled.

The Jetland has about 50% of it's units vacant, the Parkway SC is the same and the Castletroy SC is the same. So those places are doing quite badly and are not the massive drain on the city that the council likes to make out.

Sure there are also retail parks on the outskirts but the same holds true for pretty much every city in Ireland.

If the city centre had a decent number of quality retail outlets, some quality facilities, and entertainment facilities that don't simply consist of a pub/club then the city would see bigger numbers of people with reasons to spend more time in town.

source

Kess you're missing the point, no 1 of these things are causing the problem. It is a mix of everything that is being discussed, the lack of parking plays a part, the poor amenities in the city centre plays a part, the doughnut effect plays a part, the poor range of stores plays a part and the high rates and poor running of the city play a part in the demise of the city.

It is a large number of things that make up a problem like we have here. You can't just say "It's not the parking" and "It's not the shopping centres", because it is, but you'd be right if you said it's not these things in isolation that's causing the problem.

phill106

Resi12 wrote: »

Dunnes across from Pierone would be an amazing cafe/restaurant. Imagine the views from the window?

That would be lovely actually. Wouldn't be hard for them to change their little yard at the back to a few parking spaces as well to help. Have half the side facing the river an open air section, the rest behind floor to ceiling glass windows.
Seems to be a glut of coffee shops about though?

source

phill106 wrote: »

That would be lovely actually. Wouldn't be hard for them to change their little yard at the back to a few parking spaces as well to help. Have half the side facing the river an open air section, the rest behind floor to ceiling glass windows.
Seems to be a glut of coffee shops about though?

You'd need to do more than just that, the place is bloody massive, it'd be great to build an entertainment complex there. A restaurant, cafe and bar upstairs, and something like a licensed bowling alley/cinema/theatre/music venue (or a combination of all) downstairs. Something like that in a prominent position near the river would attract loads of people.

Kess73

source wrote: »

Kess you're missing the point, no 1 of these things are causing the problem. It is a mix of everything that is being discussed, the lack of parking plays a part, the poor amenities in the city centre plays a part, the doughnut effect plays a part, the poor range of stores plays a part and the high rates and poor running of the city play a part in the demise of the city.

It is a large number of things that make up a problem like we have here. You can't just say "It's not the parking" and "It's not the shopping centres", because it is, but you'd be right if you said it's not these things in isolation that's causing the problem.

My point is that whenever a statement gets released as to what the problem is it generally is put down to either the parking "situation" or the out of town shopping centres as to why the city is doing very badly.


Granted you can say it is down to a number of factors, and a valid arguement could be given for six or seven things that have an impact, but in my eyes there is one common failing or problem that has been constant in Limerick for a long time now and that is the quality of the people who have the power and who had the power to react to problems and who had the power to be proactive in trying to stimulate/protect existing business in the city.

Limerick city has been badly let down by those who are meant to run and grow the city. I really don't think there can be an arguement that says otherwise that is actually valid based on what has gone on over the last 20 years or so.

source

Kess73 wrote: »

My point is that whenever a statement gets released as to what the problem is it generally is put down to either the parking "situation" or the out of town shopping centres as to why the city is doing very badly.


Granted you can say it is down to a number of factors, and a valid arguement could be given for six or seven things that have an impact, but in my eyes there is one common failing or problem that has been constant in Limerick for a long time now and that is the quality of the people who have the power and who had the power to react to problems and who had the power to be proactive in trying to stimulate/protect existing business in the city.

Limerick city has been badly let down by those who are meant to run and grow the city. I really don't think there can be an arguement that says otherwise that is actually valid based on what has gone on over the last 20 years or so.

Yeah kess, that's one issue. As I said already there's more than that one issue to blame for the decline. The local government changes continually, especially over 20 years, the council that's there now isn't the same one that was there 20 years ago. Yes there's a lot of ineptitude in how the city is run, but again it's not the only problem we're facing.

Kess73

source wrote: »

Yeah kess, that's one issue. As I said already there's more than that one issue to blame for the decline. The local government changes continually, especially over 20 years, the council that's there now isn't the same one that was there 20 years ago. Yes there's a lot of ineptitude in how the city is run, but again it's not the only problem we're facing.

No it is not the same council in terms of members, but it is the same mistakes, the same parish pump politics, and the same amount of people with no real expertise in the fileds that they are decision makers in.

I know it is not the only problem but it is the constant and recurring problem.

A1Nutboy

As someone who was involved in trying to keep a business in Limerick open and in the city I can honestly say that Parking was the biggest issue. People do not want to park half a mile away and walk to a shop, potentially in the rain when they can park very close by in a shopping centre/retail park and not get wet.

Its a simple fact. In Ireland people love their cars and want to use them. It rains so much that people dont want to have to walk around town.

Parking IS the number 1 issue. Rates is also a very large issue but customers dont see that side obviously.

ninty9er

Delphi91 wrote: »

On the parking side of things, here are some of the situations I've come across in various places:

Bruges (Belgium) - Huge car park at the local train station, holds a couple of thousand cars. Parking for the day is relatively cheap - can't remember the exact price, but as part of the fee, you get a bus ride into the city centre included. Essentially a park and ride service, but the distance is short and the buses are very regular. The centre of Bruges is car-free, but buses can travel through.

While the increased pedestrianisation of Limerick could be argued to be a good thing, the widening of footpaths and the introduction of those smaller parking slots (2-3 cars max) will force people into multistory car parks. Consumers will then argue "Why should I pay for parking when I can go to the Crescent/Parkway, etc and park for free?", driving even more consumers from the city centre. I'm not sure that there's a lot of joined-up thinking going on here between the city council, chamber of commerce, etc.

Parking is NOT the issue...And the train station to the town centre in Brugges is about the same distance from the Fair Green to Debenhams. I walked it recently enough.

The main problem with the city centre is that it IS car centric, not that it isn't. It's difficult to walk around without having to wait every time you want to get to the next place you want to go.

If there's one thing the City Council has gotten right, it's REMOVING cars from the city centre. People arent allowed to drive through the front door of the Crescent to get to Shaws and it doesn't put them off.

Get real. The problem in the city centre is that it's not wholly pedestrian friendly and that it's too spread out.

thesimpsons

parking is an excuse, not an issue. I would go to town about 2/3 times a week, always just for a quick visit. always get street parking and pay 50c per half hour with the park magic unit, or 2euro for a 2 hour slot. I don't know where other people are expecting to park but I have never yet failed to get a space within less than a 10 minute walk of O'Connel/Henry Street. It would take you that long to exit a multi-story carpark on foot and same going back in taking into account queuing up to pay.

Poxyshamrock

The reason parking is such a problem in Limerick compared to other cities is due to the fact that hardly anyone lives in the city centre! Something like 48,000 live within the city limits compared to 60000 living in the environs! Ifpeople lived closer to the city, they would walk/cycle and use the facilities offered!
People in Ballycummin or Annacotty won't come the way into town for a cup of coffee or a movie when they can do that in their own area.

Amazotheamazing

there's a lot of issues.

Fwiw, it's worth remembering that for years Limerick couldn't pedestrainise the main streets because national routes used to run through them. The city still badly needs a Northern bypass and ideally the tunnel wouldn't be tolled. Over the last decade road building has allowed the council begin the process of pedestrainisation. It's a long process though.

Another issue is the out of town shopping centres, something that was beyond the city council's control. Galway, with a similar population has nothing like the Crescent and has far fewer retail parks too. All of these take away a certain % of people from the city centre.

Another issue is the the high rate of social housing in the city centre. These estates cost a lot to maintain, and the money that these estates swallow is money that should be going towards parks, lower rates etc.

Cork, Dublin and Galway also all have city centre colleges, by comparison LIT and UL are a bit of town. The original plan was to build UL on the Island field, something that would have radically changed the city. In addition, UL is far younger than the other colleges, it's only been a university for 20 years. By comparison, Galway and Cork have had colleges for over 150 years. That affects the culture of the city. Even in the few years the Art college has been on one campus has lead to changes in the John st/Broad st. area.

The city centre is also very spread out. Galway is effectively two streets with public parks at either end. Cork's city centre is bigger but it's not as big as the distance from the Market to Roche's street. That's a very big "footprint" for a small city. We also lack a social centre in the way Quay street is for Galway. Ideally we'll see the Market Quarter grow into that. The area needs street-scape improvements and more restaurants, imo.

These are all things that cause far more trouble than guys walking around town in tracksuits, imo.

jonski

So here is how this thread seems to be going as regards the parking issue/non issue .

Some ppl come in and say it is an issue , others say it isn't it is only an excuse .

Then we have this guy

A1Nutboy wrote: »

As someone who was involved in trying to keep a business in Limerick open and in the city I can honestly say that Parking was the biggest issue. People do not want to park half a mile away and walk to a shop, potentially in the rain when they can park very close by in a shopping centre/retail park and not get wet.

Its a simple fact. In Ireland people love their cars and want to use them. It rains so much that people dont want to have to walk around town.

Parking IS the number 1 issue. Rates is also a very large issue but customers dont see that side obviously.

And then we go straight back to more posters saying it isn't an issue at all , just an excuse .

If , like me , it's an issue at times , say so , if it isn't an issue for you say so , but lets stop with the blanket statements unless like the poster above you have experience in real terms of how it is effecting business ( assuming the above poster is genuine ) .

Amazotheamazing

jonski wrote: »

So here is how this thread seems to be going as regards the parking issue/non issue .

Some ppl come in and say it is an issue , others say it isn't it is only an excuse .

Then we have this guy




And then we go straight back to more posters saying it isn't an issue at all , just an excuse .

If , like me , it's an issue at times , say so , if it isn't an issue for you say so , but lets stop with the blanket statements unless like the poster above you have experience in real terms of how it is effecting business ( assuming the above poster is genuine ) .

Well it's more nuanced that that. In Galway for example, you've no choice but to go to the city centre. There's nothing like the Crescent there and like I said, far, far fewer retail parks. The average shopper in Galway has no choice but to pay for parking, the nearest free parking is in Salthill or on the Tuam road.

It's right to say parking is an issue but it's only part of it. Even if we sorted the city centre we'd still have to accept we'll always lose people to the retail parks, which, imo, the county council allowed to be built with full knowledge they'd damage the city. The county council has to carry their portion of blame, not that there's much sense in apportioning it now.

pigtown

Heres my experience of what seem to be the two main issues.

Parking:
I drive from the east of the county, entering the city by Upper William Street. I always park in the city centre car park on Anne Street and the only time I have ever struggled to find a spot is around Christmas and even then I still got a space. Its a max 5 minute walk to the market/river/Peoples Park.

Crescent S.C.:
People say that this is the place to go for shopping but I actually think that the city has more choice for mens clothes.
City: Crescent:
Penneys Penneys
Jack & Jones Jack & Jones
Tony Connollys Tony Connollys
River Island River Island
Seduzca Seduzca
Brown Thomas Shaws
Debenhams Next
Havana Tommy Hilfiger
Diesel Zara
Tom Tailor The Josef Store
Noels N2
Stitch
7Camicie
French Connection
Noel Andrews
Leonards
The Edinburgh Woolen Mill

This isn't to say that the city is a mecca for shopping. It only has 1 decent bookshop, cd shop. A few more decent shops such as Topshop/topman, Abercrombie, Hugo Boss would be guaranteed crowd pullers during the the day.

An easy way of encouraging retailers into the city would be changing the bylaws governing retail parks. Disallowing fashion stores in these parks would mean that when their current lease is up; TKMaxx, Elverys, Heatons/Sportsworld, Lifestyle Sports, JJB Sports & Burtons/Evans/Wallace/Dorothy Perkins would be searching for new units in the vicinity. By not granting planning permssion for any extensions to shopping centres, most if not all of these retailers could be enticed into the city.

Limericks nightlife leaves alot to be desired. While it has no shortage of good bars and restaurants it only has two nightclubs (Angel Lane, Icon).

Council support of the Market Quarter could make this area a very vibrant quarter of the city. Other measures which could be undertaken include late opening of the Hunt Museum & the new Gallery of Art. Persuade Dolans to relocate to the city centre and open a cinema in the centre.

Obviously funding is an issue but I think that the above measures could really go a long way to turing the citys fortunes around.

Poxyshamrock

Crescent also lacks a good shoe shop!

Amazotheamazing

pigtown wrote: »

Her

This isn't to say that the city is a mecca for shopping. It only has 1 decent bookshop, cd shop. A few more decent shops such as Topshop/topman, Abercrombie, Hugo Boss would be guaranteed crowd pullers during the the day.

An easy way of encouraging retailers into the city would be changing the bylaws governing retail parks. Disallowing fashion stores in these parks would mean that when their current lease is up; TKMaxx, Elverys, Heatons/Sportsworld, Lifestyle Sports, JJB Sports & Burtons/Evans/Wallace/Dorothy Perkins would be searching for new units in the vicinity. By not granting planning permssion for any extensions to shopping centres, most if not all of these retailers could be enticed into the city.

Limericks nightlife leaves alot to be desired. While it has no shortage of good bars and restaurants it only has two nightclubs (Angel Lane, Icon).

Council support of the Market Quarter could make this area a very vibrant quarter of the city. Other measures which could be undertaken include late opening of the Hunt Museum & the new Gallery of Art. Persuade Dolans to relocate to the city centre and open a cinema in the centre.

Obviously funding is an issue but I think that the above measures could really go a long way to turing the citys fortunes around.

The Council is fairly broke, but I agree there's a lot they could do.

That being said, afaik they don't own either the car park beside Angel Lane and the derelict building beside the new Mollies. Those two sites are now amongst the most important in Limerick. The new market has really succeeded, the Market Quarter concept between the pubs seems to be gathering pace but all the good work could be derailed by poor developments at either of those two sites. Whatever ends up going into either has to be things that really add to the area, not the usual stuff that gets flung up in Limerick.

Anyhow, I think things are slowly improving in the city centre.

Over the next few years we should see
new film space being developed at the Belltable,
An arthouse cinema where the Theatre Royal was (plans have been drawn up, afaik),
A new Market's field (great to see sport back in the city centre),
Improved street scapes for William St (already in progress) and O'Connell st. The Northern distributor road will take some traffic out of town too.
Hopefully the Courts will be moved up to Mulgrave st which will have the impact of removing the rough element from outside City Hall and also opening the current Courts to different, hopefully civic, uses.
There's plans to modernise the tourist facilities at King John's Castle.

All small steps to some extent but each one will hopefully improve Limerick city a small bit. If things like Riverfest/Limerick City Marathon continue to improve and the Market Quarter continues to improve we'll be in a much better state in a 5 years time. We have to take a long term view I guess.

mossym

people are missing one important point. footfall at the weekend is not enough to keep the shops open. they need ongoing business. one of the key issues with Limerick city center is that there is no business(and i don't mean retail) near the city center. you need a couple of businesses with several hundred people employed who will get lunch in the city, go shoppiong after work, go for coffee etc on a regular basis. there is not one company i can think with more than a handful of employees in the city center. other cities have them, Limerick doesn't. instead those of us working for the large companies are out in the industrial estates around the edges of the cities where amenities are awful.

padma

TBH, because I'm an honest man :P What we need is more money in our pockets, then you would see the city centre and it's shops prospering. At the moment the only people around the town during the day are those who are unemployed in doing the weekly shopping after getting their dole. More jobs would bring more cash to town, simples. Ask any business the problem is a lot of people simply don't have the money to go out anymore or to shop for luxury items. Luxury items nowadays include clothing and footwear. Buying cd's is a thing of the past now as well. The time for popping in to a nice restaurant for lunch is over as that would eat in to people's weekly budget too much. So essentially what I'm saying is, it is an economical issue which is blindly ignored by the powers to be.

kilburn

mossym wrote: »

people are missing one important point. footfall at the weekend is not enough to keep the shops open. they need ongoing business. one of the key issues with Limerick city center is that there is no business(and i don't mean retail) near the city center. you need a couple of businesses with several hundred people employed who will get lunch in the city, go shoppiong after work, go for coffee etc on a regular basis. there is not one company i can think with more than a handful of employees in the city center. other cities have them, Limerick doesn't. instead those of us working for the large companies are out in the industrial estates around the edges of the cities where amenities are awful.

900 revenue
150 irish aid
some more well over

pigtown

That being said, afaik they don't own either the car park beside Angel Lane and the derelict building beside the new Mollies.

I think it's vital the council CPO the car park. Not for new development but for a park. The city centre has no nice park (Arthurs Quay is not a nice park. It has more concrete than grass and is surrounded by dead streets. Pery Square is too out of the way.)

This site and the car park of the ESB/Eircom? building on Roches Street are the only two major sites I can think of in the city that aren't built on. I think the Market Quarter could become a leading area of the city for tourism if the streets were partly pedestrianised and cobbled. Cafes and smaller businesses could flourish and a nice park in the centre would top it all off.

BTW how do I attribute a quote to the original poster? Can't figure it out.

phog

pigtown wrote: »

I think it's vital the council CPO the car park. Not for new development but for a park. The city centre has no nice park (Arthurs Quay is not a nice park. It has more concrete than grass and is surrounded by dead streets. Pery Square is too out of the way.)

This site and the car park of the ESB/Eircom? building on Roches Street are the only two major sites I can think of in the city that aren't built on. I think the Market Quarter could become a leading area of the city for tourism if the streets were partly pedestrianised and cobbled. Cafes and smaller businesses could flourish and a nice park in the centre would top it all off.

BTW how do I attribute a quote to the original poster? Can't figure it out.[/QUOTE]

You may need to have a minimum of posts before you can quote.

Under all posts there are a few icons for quote, multi qoute (if you want to quote more than one post in the same reply, click on the icon of the relevant posts then press reply), the thumbs up for thanking a post and one the left side theres the report post icon.

eclectichoney

As a recent blow-in I'll give my impression! I'm not very well-informed so this is just my opinion, compared with how I see things in Dublin.

Every weekend I'm round Limerick I'll go into the city centre because that's where the best coffee places are (Arabica ftw!) and it's a million time better atmosphere-wise shopping in a city centre than a dull shopping centre in suburbia imo. Even if ye do get soaked sometimes. But in the city centre I do get fed up with the lack of shops - aside from BTs, Debenhams & Imasa (the latter brings me into the city centre alone tbh!) and O'Mahoney's you run out of places. They definitely need shops like Topshop, maybe a Next, a Zara, a H&M. A big topshop would be a big advantage I reckon. But it's a bit of a chicken & egg situation - there are no shops in town because there is no footfall because there are no shops in town lol.

I do miss an arthouse cinema big-time, they don't even show vaguely leftfield/indie stuff like at the moment. Delighted to hear one is on the way. Late opening cafes in Dublin are great too - some are open till 9pm now, a few till 10pm. Great vibe and keeps people in the city after work, to meet friends for coffee. People not working in the city centre would have a big impact alright - I was not aware of this myself: is it really the case that not that many people work in the city centre?? If so, this explains a lot imo. I know in Dublin the shops & cafes are jammers between about 12pm-2pm or so with office people/retail workers on lunch shopping. Most, or practically all, cafes now do a coffee & panini/sambo for €5 deal now, which is actually decent value for lunch imo, so that's why they are still doing business. Their margins are well down, but the volume has held up so they are just about keeping going.

For what it's worth people complain about parking in Dublin to tbh but there seems way less shopping centres in Dublin, certainly ones that are close to the city centre anyway.

BESman

As a Galway man living in Limerick for the last couple of years I think I can add observations comparing two very different cities:

As mentioned here a few times, Limerick lacks a focal point or main thoroughfare. In Galway you have Shop Street, Quay Street and Eyre Square which attract a lot of tourists and locals alike. You don't get that in Limerick. O'Connell Street is the main "road" but it ain't like the ones mentioned above. Thomas Street and Cruises Street are probably the closest you'll find but the streets are so wide with lots of alleys off them that they never appear to be bustling. I would also question the quality of stores and pubs on those streets.

I think, as also mentioned, Limerick is a lot bigger than it appears. To get from someplace like Jury's down to the end of William Street can be quite a walk. In places like Galway and Cork, the city centres seem a lot more compact and easier to get from one place to the next.

I think the nightlife in Limerick is lacking. There is nowhere near the number of busy, lively and attractive pubs and clubs that you find in Galway. A lot of the establishments are dives. I think Flannerys, Smyths, Icon, Aubars, Mickey Martins and one or two others are the best of a bad lot. I'm shocked that a place like Nancy's is considered among the best the City has to offer. Also, there is absolutely no street atmosphere in Limerick. I've often been out on busy Saturday nights and once you leave the pub you'd never know it was Saturday night. In Galway you'd nearly find more people on the streets than in the pubs.

As someone mentioned, the city centre population is very low. Most of the population is situated in the county and suburbs. There is little reason for people to enter the city centre. The lack of a univerity campus in the city centre is huge in my opinion. Despite what some people might think, Galway would be pretty dead without the two college campuses in town, particularly NUIG which is right in the middle of the city. The students create a lively atmosphere that is missing during the summer months. Galway makes up for this with the number of festivals held during the summer months, but believe me, without them, the place would be dead. Think about it, if UL was in the city centre, it would immediately add 10,000 - 15,000 students and staff to the middle of town. The place would be so much different.

Having said all that, I think Limerick is a fine city that suffers from a poor image and a slightly defeatist attitude. So many people in the town and county prefer to head off to Cork, Galway and Dublin for the weekend rather than head out in their own town. The streets look nice and clean and the river front area is impressive (from certain angles). I think one area Limerick absolutely excels in is restaurants. The city has such a variety of quality restaurants at great value. Galway is very poor in this regard. Nothing great and its usually a rip off. Also, I was reading in the Chronicle this week that Limerick stole the rights from Galway to be the fourth Arthur's Day city holding music events and other entertainment. Calvin Harris will be playing in the Milk Market. This is a massive coup for Limerick as this is normally an area that Galway has dominance over and I think it bodes well for the future. The Milk Market could save the city in a big way and looks like its being marketed very well for events like this.

seachto7

I was in Limk city centre last Friday at about 6 and wanted to go for a coffee, but not to a pub, and there was nowhere. Every place was closed.....
Plus, is there any pub where you can go for a quiet pint, like a late bar? There doesn't seem to be anywhere, it's a case of cramming yourself into Nancys and wait 30 mins to get to the bar.........

constantg

seachto7 wrote: »

I was in Limk city centre last Friday at about 6 and wanted to go for a coffee, but not to a pub, and there was nowhere. Every place was closed.....
Plus, is there any pub where you can go for a quiet pint, like a late bar? There doesn't seem to be anywhere, it's a case of cramming yourself into Nancys and wait 30 mins to get to the bar.........

Costellos is probably your best bet for the late pint.

constantg

These are all things that cause far more trouble than guys walking around town in tracksuits, imo.

Looking at London, Manchester, etc etc I'd say this is a HUGE issue. Also the level of casual drunkeness and drug abuse is staggering. Now its not as bad as the boardwalk in Dublin, but come on! Guys (and girls) staggering around the city's thoroughfares, p*****d out of their heads, abusing each other and asking passersby for the 'loan' of a euro? I live in the city, I generally shop and socialise in the city. I find the footpaths deplorable. The lack of pedestrian crossings is laughable.

Also the fact of population shift hasn't been properly addressed.

Theoretically the centre of Limerick City is somewhere about the intersection of O'Connell St & Bedford Row. Now looking at that area, would you say it's very dignified? I saw a guy on a fricking horse @ 7pm one evening there a wk ago! Galway has Eyre Sq and the Spanish Arch Parks. Cork has the Peace Park. Dublin has Trinity's quietness and the Temple Bar plaza and Stephen's Green.

My point is that at the time of construction the People's Park was centred around Limerick. Over time the population moved and the Park became marginalised. Ideally the perfect place for a Park would Arthurs Quay/Sarsfield House renovated OR swapped for the Brown Thomas/Opera centre site in the city, thus giving the 'newly' shifted city a focal point.

Amazotheamazing

constantg wrote: »

Looking at London, Manchester, etc etc I'd say this is a HUGE issue. Also the level of casual drunkeness and drug abuse is staggering. Now its not as bad as the boardwalk in Dublin, but come on! Guys (and girls) staggering around the city's thoroughfares, p*****d out of their heads, abusing each other and asking passersby for the 'loan' of a euro? I live in the city, I generally shop and socialise in the city. I find the footpaths deplorable. The lack of pedestrian crossings is laughable.

Also the fact of population shift hasn't been properly addressed.

Theoretically the centre of Limerick City is somewhere about the intersection of O'Connell St & Bedford Row. Now looking at that area, would you say it's very dignified? I saw a guy on a fricking horse @ 7pm one evening there a wk ago! Galway has Eyre Sq and the Spanish Arch Parks. Cork has the Peace Park. Dublin has Trinity's quietness and the Temple Bar plaza and Stephen's Green.

My point is that at the time of construction the People's Park was centred around Limerick. Over time the population moved and the Park became marginalised. Ideally the perfect place for a Park would Arthurs Quay/Sarsfield House renovated OR swapped for the Brown Thomas/Opera centre site in the city, thus giving the 'newly' shifted city a focal point.

It's an issue alright, but it's of less importance, imo, to the ones I listed.

Limerick city never really focussed on the People's Park, maybe it should have but the growth of Limerick city is from Nicholas st, eventually Broad street/John street and then O'Connell street. The park concept, afaik, was never finished. I remember reading before there was supposed to be a park built where the Augustian church is but the Catholic Church basically seized the land and no one had the guts to move them. If you look at that block relative to the rest of O'Connell street you can see it's nowhere near as uniform as the other blocks which lends credence to the story. It would also have been a central block, so idea for a park.

I've seen a lot of plans that trade off the park at Arthur's Quay for one at Roches or beside the market and they aren't plans I fully agree with. I think we do need a more central square or plaza but I don't think we should lose Arthur's Quay either. O'Connell street is very wide and for the most part, underutilsed, the footpaths and general street scape are deary and cluttered. It think Patrick's street in Cork shows what can be done to improve a street within the contraints of the existing buildings.

If I could promote a 'masterplan' for the general city centre it'd be something like

1) improve O'Connell street, utilising the full space, particularly the space outside and around Penny's. Have a secondary plaza between Bedford Row and Thomas street, with minimal traffic passing through it (as per Patricks st in Cork)
2) Remodel Arthur's Quay park so it's more grass and less brick. Put a playground in it. The park should be expanded by including wide footpath/road area between the park and the Arthur's Quay shopping centre, reduce the road to two lanes.
3) Improve the street-scape around the Market.
4) Move the City Art Gallery down to the Market, cpo the derelict building beside Mollies to house it. Move the city library to the Market quarter too. Preferably cpo the yard beside Angel lane for a new library building with remainder of year being civic space (park, outdoor cinema venue etc).

Points 1 to 3 would be easily achieved.

I don't think the city really benefits from having the Art Gallery away from everything, tourism wise. By being near the market it'd be near the Art College and near the print makers. The library is neither here nor there but afaik they are looking to move it so it should be moved to a place where the city benefits from it.

source

Your first suggestion is already underway Amazo, They started off by upgrading Bedford Row and Thomas Street, Now they're doing William Street. When that is finished they're moving onto Patrick Street, then completely pedestrianising O'Connell Street from William Street to Roches Street, which will give a large plaza in the centre of town.

Arthurs Quay Park is fine the way it is, It was designed to be used as an outdoor performance space/public park, but has remained completely under utilised. If they left the park the way it is and erected a permanent stage with regular open air performances then there's no need to change it. It would be an amazing amenity.

I quite like the street scape around the market, It's an older area of town and it feels like it, but isn't shabby overall. There are some things I would change, for example putting in nice street lighting and street furniture.

Your last point I don't agree with at all, in order for a modern library to be put in that space, It would take up pretty much the entire site. It would be a much better use of the space to put in a well serviced public space, a park or plaza with restaurants and cafe's around the sides would do far more for the area than a library.

The shell beside Molly's could hold a city Art Gallery and Library, and would leave the space that is currently a car park for the idea I've outlined above.

I would also say that old style street lighting (lamp posts) should be erected around Perry Square, and the entire Georgian area of town. Something like in the picture below should be all over the area in my opinion. It would enhance the charm of the area greatly.