GAA Finances

maestroamado

Last week i noticed in another gaa thread that the gaa had a turnover of 68 million in 2009 and 60 million in 2010.
I tried to get further information but the only available to me was that one page report and then vague reference to what id done to promote the games but no detail.
I think it is most unusual that an organization with a turnover of almost 130 million over a two year period would not provide details of all financial affairs.
I was of the opinion that the gaa was very short of money considering some of their fundraising activities, i note at the moment that some clubs around the country are involved in activity and i read an article in the paper several nmonths ago that gaa HQ asked clubs not to get involved in.

Clareman

I don't know where you got the impression that the GAA was short of money, of course it takes a lot of money to keep the organisation going. Anyway, have a bit of a better search for the accounts and I'm sure you'll find more, here's the 09 accounts for you

http://www.gaa.ie/content/documents/publications/annual_reports/Accounts-Central-Council.pdf

An Citeog

You'll find the audited financial statements for the year ended 31 December 2010 in the annual report here (starts on page 66): http://gaa.ie/content/documents/publications/annual_reports/2011_GAA_Annual_Report_Congress.pdf

And here's a summary: http://www.gaa.ie/gaa-news-and-videos/daily-news/1/0803111618-gaa-annual-report-2010/

The GAA’s financial accounts for 2010 were launched in Croke Park on Tuesday, March 8 by Uachtarán Chumann Lúthcleas Gael Criostór Ó Cuana and Ard Stiúrthóir Páraic Ó Dufaigh.

Despite the challenging economic conditions, the GAA announced revenues of €58m, down from €68m in 2009, which can, in the main, be attributed to a drop in revenue of €9m (from €13m down to €4m) from the rental of Croke Park to the FAI and the IRFU.

Approximately 80 percent of the revenues were recycled directly to other units within the Association, with Clubs, counties and provinces receiving €48m from Central Council throughout the course of the year.

Gate receipts for the year are up slightly from 2009 at €26m, with the GAA Football Championship alone providing €12m in revenue for the year, which represents an increase of €1m from the previous year.

Gate receipts for the GAA Hurling Championship dropped by €1m to €7m, while revenues from the Allianz Leagues also fell by a similar figure to €3m.

A total of 1.4m people attended Championship games in both codes in 2010, while Croke Park also welcomed its 1 millionth customer last summer.

Earnings from Croke Park totalled €7m, while there was an increase in the cost of staging competitions and matches of €1m to €10.5m.

A total of €11m was invested in Games Development, an increase of €1m from the previous year.

There was also a significant increase in player welfare funding projects, which jumped to €3m, including €1.3m of GPA funding.

maestroamado

Thanks for info.
The reason i thought they were short of cash is i see that several clubs around the country are collecting scrap metal to raise funds and is not a practise i would associate with an organization so cash rich.
I would also question the judgement in being accociated with such practise but i suppose that is an individual thing.

Thanks again

paul71

maestroamado wrote: »

Thanks for info.
The reason i thought they were short of cash is i see that several clubs around the country are collecting scrap metal to raise funds and is not a practise i would associate with an organization so cash rich.
I would also question the judgement in being accociated with such practise but i suppose that is an individual thing.

Thanks again

The individual clubs are always looking for funds, there are about 2500 clubs worldwide and a turnover of €68,000,000 does not go far when divided between a number that large. Especially if you think of the number of teams that a large number of clubs cater for. If you have a dual club with u12, u14, u16, minor & senior teams, that is 20 teams if you have football, hurling, camogie, and ladies football. Think of the travel, training, insurance, grounds & dressing room maintainance expenses. Even the largest and best funded clubs will have an ungoing requirement for funds.

TouchingVirus

maestroamado wrote: »

Thanks for info.
The reason i thought they were short of cash is i see that several clubs around the country are collecting scrap metal to raise funds and is not a practise i would associate with an organization so cash rich.
I would also question the judgement in being accociated with such practise but i suppose that is an individual thing.

Thanks again

They could clean my car for money if they wanted to, fundraising is fundraising and it's up to each club how they go about it. Why settle for the money given to them from the Central Council when they can get significant funding from local communities in addition to it? More money means better facilities, better coaches and will only improve the game if you ask me

Collection of scrap metal for funding isn't exactly some mad "out there" practice either so I don't get your position on this

maestroamado

paul71 wrote: »

The individual clubs are always looking for funds, there are about 2500 clubs worldwide and a turnover of €68,000,000 does not go far when divided between a number that large. Especially if you think of the number of teams that a large number of clubs cater for. If you have a dual club with u12, u14, u16, minor & senior teams, that is 20 teams if you have football, hurling, camogie, and ladies football. Think of the travel, training, insurance, grounds & dressing room maintainance expenses. Even the largest and best funded clubs will have an ungoing requirement for funds.

How is it possible for an amatuer organization with a turnover of 68m who does not pay its players be short of cash, on the basis of your figures it's €27,200 per club

Stinicker

maestroamado wrote: »

How is it possible for an amatuer organization with a turnover of 68m who does not pay its players be short of cash, on the basis of your figures it's €27,200 per club

The majority of small rural clubs which are the backbone of the GAA get very little from Croke Park, matter of fact clubs have to pay affiliation fees and x amount to enter teams in competitions, insurance is a major factor also and GAA clubs have the best facilities you wouldn't find in any other country.

Go into any arse end of nowhere twobit village and you may find a church and maybe a shop but you'll nearly always find a GAA pitch and dressing rooms often with a small stand and a 2nd training pitch. The GAA have sporting infrastructure on a grass roots level that would shame the FA in England. The GAA is the life and blood of Ireland and despite all the gloom and doom it is one thing I am bloody proud to of and makes me proud to be Irish. I'll never forget walking into Croke Park in 2002 when it was effectively finished for the All-Ireland final and never been so prouder.

paul71

maestroamado wrote: »

How is it possible for an amatuer organization with a turnover of 68m who does not pay its players be short of cash, on the basis of your figures it's €27,200 per club

The opposite is the case, given the enormous undertakings these clubs have in providing the facilities they do to the local communities, I am often stunned they are able to do so on such low budgets.

The GAA is not there to pay players, it exists to provide social and sports facilities to 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 and 18 year old kids. Facilities which the state and all other sports bodies in Ireland haver singularly failed to provide.

Coillte_Bhoy

paul71 wrote: »

The opposite is the case, given the enormous undertakings these clubs have in providing the facilities they do to the local communities, I am often stunned they are able to do so on such low budgets.

The GAA is not there to pay players, it exists to provide social and sports facilities to 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 and 18 year old kids. Facilities which the state and all other sports bodies in Ireland haver singularly failed to provide.

I agree with you on the matter of the GAAA providing great facilities but your last sentence is just totally wrong and is indicative of a pathetic superiority complex still evident among some GAA fans.

paul71

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

I agree with you on the matter of the GAAA providing great facilities but your last sentence is just totally wrong and is indicative of a pathetic superiority complex still evident among some GAA fans.

I disagree Coillte, the GAA provide facilities in all parts of the countries. I have no prejudice against other sports in fact as a player my main sport was basketball but the other organisations do not cater for the needs of communities anywhere near to the same extent as the GAA. I am fully supportive of the efforts of local Soccar, Rugby, and cricket clubs however they do not have the same impact of communities.

If I take my local area, which is a Triangle between Leixlip Celbridge and Trim, there are 2 rugby clubs, 3 soccar clubs, 1 Cricket club (part of North Kildare rugby club) and roughly 40 GAA clubs. The Basketball clubs in the area rely on school or GAA club facilities, there are other casually organised soccar teams who rely on council or School pitches.

People use Gym facilities in GAA clubs to keep fit because private gyms are too expensive and the State unlike other European countries does not provide such facilities.

The facilities in North Kildare Rugby club, Barnhall Rugby Club, Trim Celtic, and Leixlip Town soccar clubs are excellent and the members should be rightly pround of them but the GAA clubs, Leixlip, Confey, Maynooth, Trim, Summerhill, Blackhall Gaels, Celbridge, Kilcock (only the larger ones mentioned) provide a much more widespread and accessable service to the community.


Edit: I would also like to add that Basketball in Ireland simply would not exsist without the support of local GAA clubs, I played for 20 years in the Dublin and Leinster leagues and well over 50% of the gyms I played in belonged to GAA clubs.

maestroamado

I have to agree that the gaa is indeed a great organization but there is a hugh disparity between Croke Park and the twobit clubs mentioned earlier and in my humble opinion this needs to be adressed.
Earlier this year the gaa banned the collection of scrap metal (scrap Saturday) yet this practice continues in clubs around the country.
GAA clamp down on 'Scrap Saturday'
By Colm Keys
Friday February 25 2011
The GAA has taken the unusual step of banning clubs from running potentially lucrative scrap collections on insurance grounds.
'Scrap Saturday' collections have become hugely popular as a fundraising vehicle for clubs across the country.
The gaa can be proud of Croke Park which it is now finding with the exception of two days a year too big for purpose.
I think it is a bit rich of the gaa to make one announcement to the media and then allow this practise continue. I also think it does absolutely nothing for the profile of their games.

Thanks

Frank Spencer

maestroamado wrote: »

I have to agree that the gaa is indeed a great organization but there is a hugh disparity between Croke Park and the twobit clubs mentioned earlier and in my humble opinion this needs to be adressed.
Earlier this year the gaa banned the collection of scrap metal (scrap Saturday) yet this practice continues in clubs around the country.
GAA clamp down on 'Scrap Saturday'
By Colm Keys
Friday February 25 2011
The GAA has taken the unusual step of banning clubs from running potentially lucrative scrap collections on insurance grounds.
'Scrap Saturday' collections have become hugely popular as a fundraising vehicle for clubs across the country.
The gaa can be proud of Croke Park which it is now finding with the exception of two days a year too big for purpose.
I think it is a bit rich of the gaa to make one announcement to the media and then allow this practise continue. I also think it does absolutely nothing for the profile of their games.

Thanks

That article is incorrect. The collection of scrap metal was not banned. The use of GAA grounds to collect scrap metal was banned..

maestroamado

Frank Spencer wrote: »

That article is incorrect. The collection of scrap metal was not banned. The use of GAA grounds to collect scrap metal was banned..

You can take that up with the indo, at the end of the day they are actively involved in scrap metal business and to suggest the practice is unsured only makes it worse.

Frank Spencer

It's a lucrative fundraiser with minimal outlay. What is your problem with it? Do I sense an agenda here??

An Citeog

maestroamado wrote: »

I have to agree that the gaa is indeed a great organization but there is a hugh disparity between Croke Park and the twobit clubs mentioned earlier and in my humble opinion this needs to be adressed.
Earlier this year the gaa banned the collection of scrap metal (scrap Saturday) yet this practice continues in clubs around the country.
GAA clamp down on 'Scrap Saturday'
By Colm Keys
Friday February 25 2011
The GAA has taken the unusual step of banning clubs from running potentially lucrative scrap collections on insurance grounds.
'Scrap Saturday' collections have become hugely popular as a fundraising vehicle for clubs across the country.
The gaa can be proud of Croke Park which it is now finding with the exception of two days a year too big for purpose.
I think it is a bit rich of the gaa to make one announcement to the media and then allow this practise continue. I also think it does absolutely nothing for the profile of their games.

Thanks

There are GAA clubs around the country in serious financial difficulty and they have to do whatever they can to stay afloat. Race nights, table quizzes, poker nights etc don't work anymore because fewer people can afford to attend, so the clubs have had to come up with new ways to raise finances.

I think it is most unusual that an organization with a turnover of almost 130 million over a two year period would not provide details of all financial affairs.

It's fairly clear you have absolutely zero idea of how the GAA is run and of the ongoing funding requirements of every club around the country. It's clear from your accusation above that you didn't actually bother to look for the information which can be easily accessed on the GAA's website. This all leads me to believe that you're just looking to sling mud at the GAA to see what sticks and the only thing that will result in is this thread being locked.

maestroamado

I would not be too worried if i get blocked but i think most forums are about raising topics and if this forum is not interested thats ok.
I actually am a supporter of the gaa but i am not so blind as to see that the organization wants to disassociate itself with a perticular activity but is still quite willing to reap the financial benefits.
I find it almost impossible to believe that the gaa is so poor as they don't pay their players and a contributor earlier said it is very difficult for clubs to get funding from HQ.

An Citeog

maestroamado wrote: »

I would not be too worried if i get blocked but i think most forums are about raising topics and if this forum is not interested thats ok.
I actually am a supporter of the gaa but i am not so blind as to see that the organization wants to disassociate itself with a perticular activity but is still quite willing to reap the financial benefits.
I find it almost impossible to believe that the gaa is so poor as they don't pay their players and a contributor earlier said it is very difficult for clubs to get funding from HQ.

You say you find it difficult to believe yet you haven't actually looked into it. I've provided a link to the GAA's annual report above which details all of the association's finances. Clubs receive some funding from their county board but the vast majority of their finances come from members' subs, any profits (or losses) they make if they have a bar, sponsors and fundraising.

paul71

maestroamado wrote: »

I would not be too worried if i get blocked but i think most forums are about raising topics and if this forum is not interested thats ok.
I actually am a supporter of the gaa but i am not so blind as to see that the organization wants to disassociate itself with a perticular activity but is still quite willing to reap the financial benefits.
I find it almost impossible to believe that the gaa is so poor as they don't pay their players and a contributor earlier said it is very difficult for clubs to get funding from HQ.

I would accept your point maestromado about raising and debating a topic, but an earlier poster already provided you with a link to the Independantly Audited Financial Statements of the GAA.

The players are not paid and the money earned is pumped back into clubs, and county grounds which provide facilities to over 1 million members. Any organisation with a membership of 1 million will require more funds than the 68 million euro already spoken of, therefore the clubs raise funds in any way possible.

There are no hidden agendas or money trails, everything is above board and clearly audited and reported, the association uses funds generated by its premium marketable events to support the grassroots.

maestroamado

paul71 wrote: »

I would accept your point maestromado about raising and debating a topic, but an earlier poster already provided you with a link to the Independantly Audited Financial Statements of the GAA.

The players are not paid and the money earned is pumped back into clubs, and county grounds which provide facilities to over 1 million members. Any organisation with a membership of 1 million will require more funds than the 68 million euro already spoken of, therefore the clubs raise funds in any way possible.

There are no hidden agendas or money trails, everything is above board and clearly audited and reported, the association uses funds generated by its premium marketable events to support the grassroots.

Can i ask why the gaa would not allow the fundraising activity as mentioned in the indo article take place on their properties.

Frank Spencer

maestroamado wrote: »

Can i ask why the gaa would not allow the fundraising activity as mentioned in the indo article take place on their properties.

Because it is not covered by insurance.

For a person who claims to be interested in the overall GAA finances you seem to be focusing on the scrap collection. Cards on the table time?

maestroamado

Frank Spencer wrote: »

Because it is not covered by insurance.

For a person who claims to be interested in the overall GAA finances you seem to be focusing on the scrap collection. Cards on the table time?

So as it is completely clear i said from the outset that i am not happy about the so called "scrap saturday" simply on the basis as in my opinion it is negative for the profile of the game but bas i said earlier thats a personal thing and if you and the gaa are of a different opinion thats ok.
However i am absolutely astounded to discover that the gaa would allow their members to raise funds in what is probably a pretty dangerous activity and that while doing so they would be uninsured.

Thanks

TouchingVirus

They are uninsured to collect scrap metal on GAA property, thus the practice was banned. That is the only reason offered from the GAA for the ban, insurance. It implies they are not against the practice but are not willing to bear the significant cost of insurance it involves. They cannot stop their members from collecting scrap metal on non-GAA property where insurance is not an issue.

And I agree with Frank Spencer, you appear to have this agenda with regards to "Scrap Saturday". How exactly does it negatively affect the profile of the game? What about a Pub Quiz? During that quiz I'd imagine there are quite a few alcoholic beverages consumed, does this negatively affect the profile of the game?

You have no point here, it's been mooted several times and all you're left with is an opinion. And I'm of the opinion you're out of touch with the requirements of local GAA clubs, their funding habits and have a bee in your bonnet about nothing.

maestroamado

You may dissagree with somebody but i think you will find that a discussion forum is about people airing different points of view and i would suggest you contact the regulators of this forum before you again suggest someone with different views to your opinion is not valid.

As for the original thread everything i stated was confirmed to be correct and whether you agree or nor there is a hugh disparity between what happens in Croke Park and on the club scene.
The fact that clubs are not allowed use gaa properties to raise funds confirmes this.

As regards using pubs, considering this topic was being discussed the other night in one i will agree with you that activity is ok and if you start a thread on this topic me and Frank will support you.

Thanks for reading

TouchingVirus

maestroamado wrote: »

You may dissagree with somebody but i think you will find that a discussion forum is about people airing different points of view and i would suggest you contact the regulators of this forum before you again suggest someone with different views to your opinion is not valid.

I've posted over 5200 opinions on this board, I'm well aware what a discussion forum is about I didn't say your opinion wasn't valid, it is an opinion after all and you're entitled to have it and air it. But I'm of the view that your one is baseless and not worth forming a discussion around. Trying to change your mind about this scrap saturday thing is a lost cause, you seem to have a chip on your shoulder about it. You also didn't start this discussion on scrap metal collecting, you started by asking about GAA finances and this seems to have fallen by the wayside after other members told you that you just weren't looking for the material because it's out there, in the public domain.

As for the original thread everything i stated was confirmed to be correct and whether you agree or nor there is a hugh disparity between what happens in Croke Park and on the club scene.
The fact that clubs are not allowed use gaa properties to raise funds confirmes this.

I disagree that this issue represents a disparity between HQ & local clubs. You stated the practice of collecting scrap was banned, and implied clubs doing it are breaking rules. The actual ban is on collecting it on GAA property which is only due to insurance issues.

As regards using pubs, considering this topic was being discussed the other night in one i will agree with you that activity is ok and if you start a thread on this topic me and Frank will support you.

You missed the point of me mentioning pubs at all. You've failed to explain how scrap collection for fundraising negatively affects the profile of the GAA.

bruschi

maestroamado wrote: »

So as it is completely clear i said from the outset that i am not happy about the so called "scrap saturday" simply on the basis as in my opinion it is negative for the profile of the game but bas i said earlier thats a personal thing and if you and the gaa are of a different opinion thats ok.
However i am absolutely astounded to discover that the gaa would allow their members to raise funds in what is probably a pretty dangerous activity and that while doing so they would be uninsured.

Thanks

if, as you say the forum is about opinions, then why do you think the metal collection is a negative image?

the GAA also cant stop anyone doing things outside of their premises. They dont allow them to do so because of insutrance, so your last point is completley wrong.

maestroamado

The discussion was originally posted as I was trying to be sensitive to the people who are in the business of collecting scrap metal on a full time basis.
Considering the collecting of same is about raising funds for the sport I believe it is perfectly ok to bring it under the umbrella of finance..

The gaa is a nationwide organization on tradition, community , identity and an aspiration to represent your club/county and to succeed at same. In the past it has usually got involved in activity such as was mentioned earlier to raise funds which I agree are needed by the organization. The organization has also been very successful in attracting sponsors for the games to raise the profile of the sport and also the dreaded money.
For the most part it is a very good organization and a tremendous value to society in general.

The collection of scrap metal is generally unregulated and ad-hoc, and to my mind not in keeping with what I would have considered the gaa is about.
However from time to time organizations change tact and shift their focus to different type of activity and maybe this is what has been decided. I do not agree with it and only time will tell if it is long term successful or not.
Thanks again for replies

bruschi

you'd swear it was somesort of cult gathering the way you are talking about it. a few clubs in a few counties are doing it, its not a widespread activity, and even if it was, I really really dont see the harm in it and I really cant see where you are coming from on it.

clubs are doing all sorts to raise money, whether it be field days, event nights, poker nights etc, and its not as if a decision was made by the GAA to do scrap metal as well. Its just something a few clubs caught onto and more followed suit.

Frank Spencer

maestroamado wrote: »

The discussion was originally posted as I was trying to be sensitive to the people who are in the business of collecting scrap metal on a full time basis.
Considering the collecting of same is about raising funds for the sport I believe it is perfectly ok to bring it under the umbrella of finance..

The gaa is a nationwide organization on tradition, community , identity and an aspiration to represent your club/county and to succeed at same. In the past it has usually got involved in activity such as was mentioned earlier to raise funds which I agree are needed by the organization. The organization has also been very successful in attracting sponsors for the games to raise the profile of the sport and also the dreaded money.
For the most part it is a very good organization and a tremendous value to society in general.

The collection of scrap metal is generally unregulated and ad-hoc, and to my mind not in keeping with what I would have considered the gaa is about.
However from time to time organizations change tact and shift their focus to different type of activity and maybe this is what has been decided. I do not agree with it and only time will tell if it is long term successful or not.
Thanks again for replies

How would you consider it to be successful in the long term?


The main reason it has become more prevalent is due to the fact that scrap metal is worth a good bit more per tonne than it previously has been. As I said earlier it is one of the if not the easiest and cheapest ways to raise funds. I along with the rest of the posters are failing to see your problem with it. You have come out with generalisations like "not in keeping with what I would have considered the gaa is about" but haven't elaborated on it. I still think there's something you're not telling us.

Also it's not just GAA clubs that have done this. Rugby, soccer and even equestrian clubs have benefited from it to.