Shared Ownership Scheme problem

Willm5499

Im hoping someone has a solution to this big problem...

On the 7th of February 2008 my partner and I entered into an agreement with the Dublin City Council
using the 50/50 Shared Ownership Scheme for a 1 bedroom apartment priced at
€265,000, which we are currently renting half and paying mortgage on the
other half.

Our situation has now changed as my fiancee is
6 months pregnant and we are due our baby in November. As we are
only in a 1 bedroom apartment we are seeking some help regarding this
matter as it would not be big enough for us to start our family in.

At the moment we are paying 1155.30 per month for the mortgage/ rental
of this 1 bedroom property, which is a
substantial amount, and the rental side is continuing to rise yearly, we
feel we simply cannot afford this amount every month especially with a
child on the way, and it is putting a lot of stress on us both.

We applied for 100% mortgage just before my fiancee became pregnant and we were
advised that our monthly repayments would rise if we transferred to 100%
so there is no way we could afford this, also now that we have a child
on the way our situation has changed and it would be impossible for us to raise our child in this 1 bedroom apartment.

We feel we have no way out of this situation, and would really
appreciate any suggestions or advice with this
Difficult position we are in : (

Thanks

mari2222

make an appointment with the housing officer in the council - ask them for ideas to solve the problem - could you swap perhaps with someone who has a place that is too big? can you rent out your place and rent somewhere bigger? what assistance is available from the council?

sorry to ask more questions than answers - you need to speak to the council

John Mason

sell the apartment and buy a bigger place.

rent out the apartment and rent a bigger place

these are your only two options.

i really want to scream at you for paying that amount for a 1 bed apartment but there is not point in that

Willm5499

Hi Mari ,

Thanks for your reply, We already spoke to the housing officer in the council and asked for what idea s they had or options we might have and we were told that they do not have a scheme in place for the shared ownership to transfer to a bigger property, and no option to swap, also with the shared ownership they do not allow you to rent the apt out even if you transfered to 100% mortgage and even if they did make an exception in our circumstances nobody is going to pay the monthly repayments we pay for this 1 bed apt when they could rent one for 700 per month, and the corporation are not willing to help or assist us in any way. So we feel like we have no way out..We wish we could just hand back the keys at this stage..

Willm5499

Hi,

Thank you for your ideas , but im afraid we have tried all of these and no luck , Because we bought this apt at such a high price of 265,000, if we sold now we would be left with a debt of at least 120,000 as with alot of properties its only worth half of what we paid for it..
The council does not allow you to rent out this apt if you are with the shared ownership, or if we transfered to 100%, and even if they made an exception in our case and allowed us to rent the apt out we would never get 1151.00 per month for this 1 bed property and they are not wiling to put they monthly repayments down for us ..
Oh i know i want to scream at myself too for paying this much for the property but what else can we do ?

Thespoofer

Hi Willm, TheSpoofer here from the other thread, I stumbled across this one.

Firstly Best of luck with the pregnancy and all that side of things, I hope they work out for ye.
Anyway getting back to your situation, it seems you have a couple of problems with your situation, firstly, the cost of the mortgage/property and secondly a one bedroom apartment with a child on the way.
If one of my kids approached me with your problem I know what I'd try and advise them.
The council at the moment don't seem willing to bend at all to accommodate your problem. I know we all go through life and try and do the decent thing including paying back our debts but it has to be said we are in times where the rule book has gone out the window. I would advise my child for example that if the lender IS NOT in any way willing to re-adjust the terms then the ball is in your court and thats when I would call their bluff.
If you can't pay you can't pay, simple as that. Whats the worst thing they can do ?

The fact you have a baby on the way, try not to stress too much about only one bedroom etc. You will still have a couple of years grace where you don't need a second bedroom immediately for the child, the first couple of years will be in the cot of course probably next to the bed ! I've been through the same.

Regards

TheSpoof

deelite

Send in your P21 from last year and they may be able to make some deductions on the rental side. Secondly we went up to the Health Centre the other day got a form called SWA4 (mortgage/rental assistance) - we are sending this into the DCC today and hopefully we may get some mortgage relief. Thirdly the DCC can freeze your mortgage payments for 6 months (not sure about the rental part) to give you some breathing space.

Regarding the space issue I've no help at all to give you but when we had our first child we were living in a one bedroom place for 2 years or so - it was grand - our worst problem was drying of clothes not sleeping arrangements.

zedman

Has the Bedroom an on suite? Could maybe rip out the main bathroom an turn it into a small bedroom?

Dandelion6

Willm5499 wrote: »

We applied for 100% mortgage just before my fiancee became pregnant and we were advised that our monthly repayments would rise if we transferred to 100%

They told me that too but it wasn't true. My monthly repayments actually went down because they extended the term of the loan.

quinnie123ie

zedman wrote: »

Has the Bedroom an on suite? Could maybe rip out the main bathroom an turn it into a small bedroom?

LOL, never seen 1 bedbedroom 2 bathroom apartment, have you?

ricman

i think its morally wrong for the council to give a 1 bed apartment to a couple ,do they not know bout people having kids?is it practical for the hse to be giving mortgage assistance long term, to couples on 250k mortgages when houses are on the market for 100k.
is this mortgage just in your name,not a joint mortgage.Go to threshold or centrecare for advice.
the hse would not regard a 1bed apartment as suitable for a couple with a child.
Many people are going to the banks and just switching to interest only payments,although thats not an ideal solution as it extends the mortgage.

Raskolnikov

quinnie123ie wrote: »

LOL, never seen 1 bedbedroom 2 bathroom apartment, have you?

It's more common than you'd think. I used to live in one.

ricman

they should have an option if a couple have kids, they can transfer to a larger residence, even if they are still liable for the mortgage on the one bed apartment .

John Mason

ricman wrote: »

they should have an option if a couple have kids, they can transfer to a larger residence, even if they are still liable for the mortgage on the one bed apartment .

OMG are you for real? would you expect the Bank to do this?

ricman

I mean the council should help them ,maybe transfer to a 2bed council flat.The question of people in negative equity in 1bed apartments in relation to the banks is another problem.Its crazy for the council to be giving couples 1bed apartments with large mortgages,give them at least a2bed unit at least.

Joey the lips

Just to help you and not get into a debate.

The council will not help you as you are not classed as homeless or needy because you have a house.

The council will not rehouse you as you have a mortage.

Due to the current property situation you are stuck in a muddle. You will not sell the apartment and you will not be rehoused while you have it.

To be blunt you are seriously up a creak

However i would go to every one i can think of for advice

ie

Threshold
Focuspoint
TD'S


However do not be surprised if you get no where.

John Mason

ricman wrote: »

I mean the council should help them ,maybe transfer to a 2bed council flat.The question of people in negative equity in 1bed apartments in relation to the banks is another problem.Its crazy for the council to be giving couples 1bed apartments with large mortgages,give them at least a2bed unit at least.

the council didnt GIVE them a 1-bed apartment.

they borrowed money to buy a house from the council and they CHOOSE to buy a 1-bed apartment

Willm5499

Yeh you were right about those three, got nowhere but we contacted a place New Beginings two weeks ago & there might just be light at the end of the tunnel for people like myself & the rest of the unfortunate working class people that got screwed by the Government & its policies or should i say non excistant policies. But in our defence irishbird, the prices of the houses in 2007/8 were €320k min & the council would only give €270k. Now the main reason we went with the corporation and NOT with a bank, is that we THOUGHT that we would live in the apartment for a year or two, sell it & buy a house like any normal couple. I think its fair to say we didnt know the economy would collapse 2 months after we moved in :-(

John Mason

But that was your choice, no one but a gun to your head and made you buy that apartment.

you made a bad decision, why should the rest of us have to pay for it?

i bought a shared ownership house, i bought a home not somewhere to live for a few years, then sell on and make a huge profit.

MagicMarker

May I ask why you decided to have a baby in the middle of all of this?

Willm5499

Well good for you, now i came onto to this looking for some positive feedback not crititism. We didnt get the apartment to make a profit, and by the way ive worked all my life, never claimed the social so dont be asking me why should you pay for it, im paying aswell....

Willm5499

MagicMarker wrote: »

May I ask why you decided to have a baby in the middle of all of this?

Because we wanted to have a baby..

dharma200

MagicMarker wrote: »

May I ask why you decided to have a baby in the middle of all of this?

If everyone who is in debt due to the dire advise and irresponsible lending of money/building of properties in the past ten years decided to not have children, who the hell are we going to have to export in the future to send money back to the starving generation of debt ridden bank bail out working class middle aged people left behind?

It might not be a popular bit of advise, and I am not telling the op to follow it, but if it were me, I would put the keys in an envelope and get out... sorry op, probably bad advise but it is what I would do if i was stuck between a real rock and a hard place.

donalg1

ricman wrote: »

i think its morally wrong for the council to give a 1 bed apartment to a couple ,do they not know bout people having kids?is it practical for the hse to be giving mortgage assistance long term, to couples on 250k mortgages when houses are on the market for 100k.
is this mortgage just in your name,not a joint mortgage.Go to threshold or centrecare for advice.
the hse would not regard a 1bed apartment as suitable for a couple with a child.
Many people are going to the banks and just switching to interest only payments,although thats not an ideal solution as it extends the mortgage.

I dont see how its morally wrong for them to give them a 1 bed apartment because they are a couple. They could have bought a two bed if they wanted. They werent given the one bed they bought the 1 bed.

Do the people having kids not know that a 1 bed is not practical? The council aren't there to Mammy people.

Do you actually think they would have said to them to consider a two bed in case they might decide to have kids one day despite the fact this would be more expensive to buy and they may not have a need for the second bedroom? They were obviously only able to afford a one bed and this is why they bought it, however having a child in a one bed that you cant really afford isnt exactly practical given the cost implications of said child.


However to answer the OP I dont see any clear way out of it or any ideal solution to the problem, firstly I would consider putting the apartment on the market, no harm in doing this anyway to gauge interest or to give you a real idea of what you could get for it. Once you know this you could speak with the loans office in the Council and try work something out although I would assume they would only consent to the sale of the property once they are sure that the mortgage will be paid in full.

The HSE may be able to help you with Mortgage Interest Relief although this can be quite specific and you may not get this if you are both in employment at the minute.

I dont think there really is an easy solution to your problem, but first of all I would speak with the Loans Officer in the Council to try find a way of maybe extending the term of the loan thereby reducing the monthly payments (dependant on your age of course), or you could see can you go on interest only payments for 6 months or something similiar again not sure what options are given by DCC or what ways they could try accomodate you.

As for swapping with someone else this would never be an option.

MagicMarker

Willm5499 wrote: »

Because we wanted to have a baby..

I'd like a dog, but I don't have a garden so I'm not going to get one.

dharma200 wrote: »

It might not be a popular bit of advise, and I am not telling the op to follow it, but if it were me, I would put the keys in an envelope and get out... sorry op, probably bad advise but it is what I would do if i was stuck between a real rock and a hard place.

And the OP would still be liable for the debt.

the_syco

dharma200 wrote: »

It might not be a popular bit of advise, and I am not telling the op to follow it, but if it were me, I would put the keys in an envelope and get out...

Jingle mail doesn't exist in Ireland like it does in the USA. If the OP did this they'd be homeless and still have to pay the bank money.

OP: look at the banks; some offer the option of bringing the negative equity with you to a new house.

Lantus

Firstly congrats on the potential arrival. It will be best thing you ever do trust me! All the rubbish in our lives like houses cars and jobs are things you will forget and have no real value, a child is an amazing investment.

Your post said fiancee which means your not yet married.

Is there any way that one of you could declare yourself bankrupt if it's in one preson nane? extreme I know and I'd take some serious legal advice on whether its even possible ass it sounds like you are both equal partners on the contract.

This is another example of the shocking state we are all in as a society in being utterly enslaved to the banking system and the money scam that they have been peddling for over 100 years now.

FlexBrowne

mari2222 wrote: »

make an appointment with the housing officer in the council - ask them for ideas to solve the problem - could you swap perhaps with someone who has a place that is too big? can you rent out your place and rent somewhere bigger? what assistance is available from the council?

sorry to ask more questions than answers - you need to speak to the council

That's what I did. No joy 😔

FlexBrowne

irishbird wrote: »

But that was your choice, no one but a gun to your head and made you buy that apartment.

you made a bad decision, why should the rest of us have to pay for it?

i bought a shared ownership house, i bought a home not somewhere to live for a few years, then sell on and make a huge profit.

Profit? Where was that mentioned. He needs to move for child rearing reasons and wants help not a digout. Easy to be smug when not in the situation...

FlexBrowne

MagicMarker wrote: »

Willm5499 wrote: »

Because we wanted to have a baby..

I'd like a dog, but I don't have a garden so I'm not going to get one.

dharma200 wrote: »

It might not be a popular bit of advise, and I am not telling the op to follow it, but if it were me, I would put the keys in an envelope and get out... sorry op, probably bad advise but it is what I would do if i was stuck between a real rock and a hard place.

And the OP would still be liable for the debt.

Such ignorance. Are you saying that ALL couples with debt shouldn't have kids? Future of the nation idiot. Comparing getting a dog shows you up. Don't have kids do you? Thought not.

Gooner111

FlexBrowne wrote: »

Such ignorance. Are you saying that ALL couples with debt shouldn't have kids? Future of the nation idiot. Comparing getting a dog shows you up. Don't have kids do you? Thought not.

FlexBrowne wrote: »

Such ignorance. Are you saying that ALL couples with debt shouldn't have kids? Future of the nation idiot. Comparing getting a dog shows you up. Don't have kids do you? Thought not.

What about the future of the nation. People don't have kids thinking about that! Having kids shouldnt be something done lightly at any time but especially if your struggling for cash. However this isn't a topic about whether to have kids or not.

I know it is drastic but what about you give the keys back and just rent somewhere. You would be liable for some of the debt, not all. Irish culture being what it is they don't hit you for it all or punish you for too long. Wasn't their an article in one of the papers a few months back about a nurse who bought a 1 bed place, similar price to your own. She stopped paying the mortgage. Bank repossed the place, she is barred from getting loans/credit etc for 5/6 years and has to repay a set weekly amount... roughly works out at 25k if I remember correctly. Now I would imagine that the amount you have to repay would be based on your wages etc.

Just to be clear am not recommending such a course of action. Every case is different.

Good luck

votecounts

Willm5499 wrote: »

Yeh you were right about those three, got nowhere but we contacted a place New Beginings two weeks ago & there might just be light at the end of the tunnel for people like myself & the rest of the unfortunate working class people that got screwed by the Government & its policies or should i say non excistant policies. But in our defence irishbird, the prices of the houses in 2007/8 were €320k min & the council would only give €270k. Now the main reason we went with the corporation and NOT with a bank, is that we THOUGHT that we would live in the apartment for a year or two, sell it & buy a house like any normal couple. I think its fair to say we didnt know the economy would collapse 2 months after we moved in :-(

FlexBrowne wrote: »

Profit? Where was that mentioned. He needs to move for child rearing reasons and wants help not a digout. Easy to be smug when not in the situation...

There you go.

The_Conductor

Ok- you bought the apartment @ 265k
What is its current open market selling price?
Lets say it has a nominal value of 180k (this purely spurious- I'm pulling this out of thin air)
So- you have 50% ownership of an apartment worth 180k, as do the council.
Your share is worth 90k, as is their share.
How about approaching them with a proposal to buy out their share @ 90k- meaning your mortgage would be 135k + 90k = 225k
At a 6% mortgage rate (over 25 years, to include repayment) you'd be looking at monthly repayments almost identical to your current rent/mortgage repayment schedule.

Of course this doesn't get you out of the property and into a more suitable property- it simply solves one issue.

With respect of the property being unsuited to bringing up children- this is a whole different kettle of fish- and one in which 146,000 households have a vested interest in seeing solved- the majority of whom are congregated in Dublin and the greater Dublin area. Many many people bought during the boom, with an expectation that at some point in the future they would trade up to ye semi detached with a garden. This dream was perpetuated by politicians and economists- however someone forgot to tell the builders this- as they build more and more apartments- and sod all family friendly housing units in major conurbations.

Unfortunately- you are going to have to follow the advice earlier in this thread- and petition your politicians etc, because its simply not on the agenda. I don't know whether its good or bad for you personally that so many people are in a similar situation- but unfortunately as it stands no-one is fighting your corner.

The_Conductor

Everyone- if you disagree with what another poster posts- refute the post, without attacking the poster. Its not hard to remain civil towards one another.