DTT Recption difficulties in parts of north county Dublin

scruffy66

Clermont carn
Anybody know why the signal from Clermont Carn is so low, its causing
all sorts of problems in Howth, can be very on off a times.
Tried different Aerials amps cable , Tetra filters etc and still having break up
issues in certain parts of Howth hill.
Signal strength can be between 50 and 65
Signal quality never go's over 22/25 max.

I wonder if the guys at saorview are looking at this or will howth have to
wait for saorsat to get digital RTE

any suggestions anybody?

scruffy66

North county dublin
Out in north county dublin today, same issues with signal quality in skerries
and malihide . I think anybody living as far as balbriggan would be better off turning their Aerials towards Threerock to get decent signal quality, they would loose their analogue BBC'S but they will loose them next year anyway.
This wont sort out the signal problem in Howth as they cant see Threerock,
Howth will have to wait till 2012 to be guaranteed decent signal.

As far as i know at that stage clermont cairn will use a bigger anteena and a different frequency,this should sort out the problem.

s_gr

There are major problems in North Dublin Skerries/Malahide/Rush where reception of clermont cairn is being received. The cause ive been told by RTE NL is due to co channel interference from the north. In 2012 when analog goes power is being increased so problems should be gone, in the meantime any time lift with high pressure/clear nights etc going to be issues as far i can see. Very difficult to avoid.....as on the exact same channels.

Gerry Wicklow

Welcome to the co-channel club. Gawd what a holy mess this DTT is turning out to be:mad:

Digifriendly

Gerry Wicklow wrote: »

Welcome to the co-channel club. Gawd what a holy mess this DTT is turning out to be:mad:

Am I right in saying that on DTT co-channel results in no picture being broadcast while on good old analogue you got 'blinds' across the screen but picture and sound nonetheless?

Gerry Wicklow

Correct. Some people refer to it as "a cliff". One minute a perfect picture, the next nothing.

scruffy66

Gerry Wicklow wrote: »

Welcome to the co-channel club. Gawd what a holy mess this DTT is turning out to be:mad:

Thats what i was told when i emailed Saorview Gerry .

DTT coverage in parts of North Co. Dublin is poor at the moment.
This is due to frequency planning restrictions that will be in place until analogue switch off in October 2012. After that date, DTT from Clermont Cairn will be transmit from a bigger antenna which will have improved coverage. DTT will also change channel, so that will alleviate the co-channel problems experienced in that area during periods of high pressure. UK DTT is interfering with Saorview DTT at times.

So unfortunately the situation will remain as is until the end of next year.

What i cant understand is that a solution for this was not sorted out
earlier when testing.

SAORVIEW was advertised as a plug and play solution to young and old
alike if you had an aerial already [maybe with a bit of tweaking].
Its now turning out to be quite expensive for people who might
not be able to aford it.

plus and most importantly think of the PR disaster this is for SAORVIEW.
MADNESS

Gerry Wicklow

At least you have some hope of improvement with Clermont, those of us in the Mt Leinster v Preseli battle have been told "tough". We have to choose 4.5 Irish stations or 30+ UKs. Hhmmmmmmmmmm :rolleyes:

lucernarian

I don't think DTT from Clermont Carn will be changing channel from the current 53 and 57. It will be different from analogue, yes but it has used E53 and E57 for a few years now and is part of the allocation that was negotiated for the transmitter.

I suspect Llanddona is the cause of the problems here, but at least they will be significantly reduced by the end of next year.

scruffy66

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

I don't think DTT from Clermont Carn will be changing channel from the current 53 and 57. It will be different from analogue, yes but it has used E53 and E57 for a few years now and is part of the allocation that was negotiated for the transmitter.

I suspect Llanddona is the cause of the problems here, but at least they will be significantly reduced by the end of next year.

The post above is from an email i got back from the interference department at RTNL which states that the frequency will be changed.

When saorview was first muted i remember people on boards saying it
would cover 98% of the country and i remember thinking that this was a load of horse ****.

Even after full switch over it looks like certain parts of the country will still
have break up problems so the saorview 98% saorsat 2% is nonsense.

I wonder what the true breakdown will be of saorsat versus saorview,
suppose a least there will be 2 to choose from, thank god the Country
isn't flat

lucernarian

I think RTE are still using the DTT panel antenna that was erected for the BT-run trial a few years ago. Coverage is definitely going to improve next year between having a full DTT array on top of the mast and an increase to 160kW max ERP I think.

Clermont Carn only has channels 52, 53, 56 and 57 in the UHF band allocated to it according to RRC-06: http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/NR/rdonlyres/1E36C0B3-630D-44F1-9CA9-351812FC7C14/0/GE06DTTPlan.pdf

(Anything above Ch 59 is no longer being used for broadcasting by 2013)

Unless they move on to the existing analogue channels at the moment of switchover, there won't be a frequency change for Saorview from there.

The Cush

scruffy66 wrote: »

When saorview was first muted i remember people on boards saying it
would cover 98% of the country and i remember thinking that this was a load of horse ****.

It is. The 98% figure refers to population not terrain.

scruffy66

The Cush wrote: »

It is. The 98% figure refers to population not terrain.

So you still think that after 2012 , Saorview will reach 98% of the population
with no break up in picture.

The Cush

scruffy66 wrote: »

So you still think that after 2012 , Saorview will reach 98% of the population
with no break up in picture.

RTÉNL say in excess of 98% of the population by Oct 2012 once all transmitters go full power after ASO both sides of the border.

No one can guarantee no picture break up as some homes will have inadequate aerial installations, wrong aerial for their location or transmitter, incorrectly aligned aerials after ASO, internal aerials where an external one will be required, faulty cable between aerial and TV etc.

Over 100 sites are not being upgraded to DTT and yet coverage from the 51 DTT sites will exceeed analogue coverage, not bad I think.

secman

We had no signal in North Wexford all day yesterday, it was perfect on Friday & Saturday.

Secman

scruffy66

The Cush wrote: »

RTÉNL say in excess of 98% of the population by Oct 2012 once all transmitters go full power after ASO both sides of the border.

No one can guarantee no picture break up as some homes will have inadequate aerial installations, wrong aerial for their location or transmitter, incorrectly aligned aerials after ASO, internal aerials where an external one will be required, faulty cable between aerial and TV etc.
.

Sorry Cush, you forgot co- channel problems, police transmitters and even
wind power stations and im sure there might be a couple of other reasons
that other people might know of.

Anyway its not about RTNL bashing or patting them on the back, im just stating problems ive found installing adequate aerial installations.

And i was just saying that i was glad that the country wasn't flat and that
hopefully saorsat will be an option for people were a adequate aerial
installation doesn't do the job

Mal78

Hmm howth installer here, I have just refused to do anymore installs with typical rte saorview crap in howth. I have rang, emailed and even wrote an old fashioned letter with a stamp on it which i thought they would get being so old fashioned with no reply. They are a a useless shower of you know what. I have no faith in these so called promises of coverage in howth by late 2012, more like 3012! I'm just doing HD free to air sat installs here and tell my customers they're much better off without the crap oirish service. Jayzus I actually had faith when rte chose mheg4 over mheg 2 before the uk. how wrong was my faith! I've cut down my customer complaints and free call backs by 98% hmmm sound familiar saorview? luckily most of my work is from CH 54 which is a pleasure but howth being a small village and being born here its **** having to explain that I'm doing nothing wrong with my work but that rte are ****ing me and my customers up!

Vince Cable

You have the right idea suspending installations receiving from Clermont Carn until after ASO, but maybe you should have thought of it earlier rather than blaming RTE for problems with any recent installs in the Howth area specifically for Saorview reception from Clermont.

lucernarian

Vince Cable wrote: »

You have the right idea suspending installations receiving from Clermont Carn until after ASO, but maybe you should have thought of it earlier rather than blaming RTE for problems with any recent installs in the Howth area specifically for Saorview reception from Clermont.

I don't think the installer can be blamed for experiencing inadequate coverage in a transmitter's service area after a new service has been launched. RTENL are responsible for mananging transmitter equipment, antennae and EIRPs. It's not necessarily their fault or anyone's fault though. Clermont Carn needs careful coordination until NI undergoes DSO and perhaps the temporary DTT aerial can't handle more than 40kW. RTÉ intend to have an ERP of 160kW at switchover I believe so that will be a very helpful boost.

Perhaps this is somethng that should have been explained by Saorview/RTENL publicly, that many places will experience intermittent reception in the northeast of Ireland until switchover is finished in 2012.

Sponge Bob

Didn't RTE abandon plans for an infill in Rush or Skerries too. At least there is no satellite shadow in Howth and they can pick up Saorsat as well as Astra 28.8

lucernarian

Skerries it was. Though in my experience, terrestrial reception there is fine with a proper outdoor aerial and FM coverage is solid. Swords, Navan and Drogheda would be more problematic than Skerries (barring a small part in the very centre of Skerries)

Don't know about Howth. It's a poor place to be an installer though, I wouldn't expect Kilkeel's 200W ERP to travel down as far as Howth reliably and people there may go from fuzzy analogue to no NI channels at all! Freesat's reliability is a blessing.

Vince Cable

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

I don't think the installer can be blamed for experiencing inadequate coverage in a transmitter's service area after a new service has been launched. . .
. . . Perhaps this is somethng that should have been explained by Saorview/RTENL publicly, that many places will experience intermittent reception in the northeast of Ireland until switchover is finished in 2012.

The coverage map has most of Howth in a red area (literally sticks out like a sore thumb, as they say).

You would think installers would do a bit of homework, although you're right in saying, as has been said many times before, that RTENL should be a bit more forthcoming with information.