German Shepherd Dog: Where to start

Gumbi

Hi, myself and my family are interested in getting a GS, or possibly two. This thread was very helpful http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056334995

Basically, the main barrier for us are the logistical problems. We have a medium sized garden in Limerick (I think it's a 12th of an acre). Now that we are older (youngest child is 15), we feel that the dog would do well, provided he/she is not left outside in such a small area for long periods of time, as long as he is well exercised/socialized.

We also spend long periods of time in Kerry during the holiday periods (2 + months in the summer, at least a week at Christmas, and several other days during other breaks throughout the year), where we have large space (2.5 acres). Our land isn't fully fenced, however, as the driveway doesn't have a gate. (It is not necessarily a natural escape route, as it is up a small slope and around a slight corner, though the point still stands) We are worried that the dog may chase the sheep/cattle in nearby fields.

Our problem is that we are not sure if getting a dog is the right thing to do in such a place. We won't be able to fully seal our property. Granted, we are at least a hundred metres from the nearest property, and cattle only graze in one adjacent field (to which the dog will not have access.

We are worried the dog may wander, though our main issue is the casing of sheep, as we used to have a male Jack Russell who would do this. I suppose I'm just looking for guidance on these issues, as look at getting a dog (especially a GSD) as a big deal.

We are considering purchasing one from a breeder. Is 600 euro a reasonable price for one from a reputable breeder? Any recommendations for specific breeders? We are also considering getting a rescue dog.

Thanks a lot for your help in advance. Any general advice on other precautions/research we should take upon ourselves to do in the wake of such a commitment would also be appreciated.

nicky chick

I too have a german shepherd pup now just a year old and I know when she has spent a lot of time with us and then we are away for a while (my boys at school and myself at work) she misses us and mopes around (my neighbor has told me) I know gs dogs get bored, would you concider getting 2 for company

Gumbi

nicky chick wrote: »

I too have a german shepherd pup now just a year old and I know when she has spent a lot of time with us and then we are away for a while (my boys at school and myself at work) she misses us and mopes around (my neighbor has told me) I know gs dogs get bored, would you concider getting 2 for company

It's certainly a real possibility. Advice on what whether a male/male /// female/female /// male/female mix would help, too. I don't expect the dog(s) to be on their own for very long periods of time, but for when they are...

Will sheep be a problem? Is it possible to teach a pup to ignore them completely? Money mightn't allow for two dogs to be purchased. Does introducing a rescue dog after we have had a dog for some period of time (a year maybe) sound reasonable/feasible?

Thanks much.

Chris_Heilong

Dogs that grow up together are usually fine regardless of sex, they will grow into two big strong dogs with loads of energy(toilet training will be twice as hard too) are you sure you are able for two? If you are confident then why not. GSD are herding dogs and always need something to do, yes if they see sheep they would naturally be drawn towards them even just to satisfy their curiosity. Good luck.

meoklmrk91

I wouldn't get the two pups together at the same time as this can end up being a issue when it comes to them bonding with human members of the family, I would get one and then wait a few months and get another. Also getting a rescue dog would be perfect probably even better than the two pups imho, there are plenty of lovely dogs crying out for good homes so that would be perfect and as your GSD is properly socialized then you should have no issues with introducing another dog regardless of the sex.

Dogs can be taught to do or not do pretty much anything, so with regards to chasing cattle or sheep, if it becomes an issue then you should get a good behavourist involved who can help to stamp out the problem. Dogs are more likely to get up to mischief if they are bored so make sure that the dog gets lots of exercise, and has plenty to occupy their mind, toys and such.

ppink

Can you put a run up in your property in Kerry to contain the dog/s if you are not outside with them or put a gate on it?

I would never get a german shep (or any other dog for that matter) without first having a plan for keeping it secure........against being stolen and against it causing any issues to any other animals or members of the public either. Please remember if it strays it can be stolen, shot by a farmer or picked up by a dog warden.

We have a male and a female and they get on very well together. We did not get them together as pups really for training purposes and also GSD need one on one time I think.
I am not sure how much to pay now but be thorough in checking out the breeders and my advice would be not to go to "see" any puppies until you have checked out the breeders credentials first as it is very hard to walk away when you get there!

Cherry Blossom

OP - Do you realise that German Shepherds are on the restricted breeds list? What this means is they are supposed to be muzzled and on a short lead with a handler over the age of 16 at all times in a public place. Unlike the control of dogs act which is there to basicly prevent people from letting their dogs act like nuisances but never really enforced, it's very different in the case of restricted breeds and is strictly enforced. While the restricted breeds act is an idiotic law the reality of it is that one report to the council, gardai or dog warden of the dog wandering off your property would likely end in you being forced to have the dog destroyed.

It sounds like otherwise you are in an ideal position, but you are going to have to invest in a gate first.

Gumbi

Thanks a lot. It sounds promising. I do know that they are on the restricted breeds list. It's very unfortunate, but that's the way it is. I also understand that something needs to be done about the entrance.

We are advocates of having two dogs, and something like introducing a rescue dog down the line sounds good. I'm worried about things like the fact that there are several dogs within a mile of the area that are, frankly, neglected. They are never exercised, have little contact with humans, and are, as a result quite aggressive. Thankfully, they are not within barking distance. The sheep thing is also another issue. If the dog escaped, and started chasing sheep, they (the sheep) could very possibly break a leg while running, and this would obviously creates huge problems.

And, unfortunately, it's not quite as simple as getting a gate. Most of the front is separated from the road by a thick screen of bushes/trees, through which any wily dog (or human, for that matter) may gain access to the road. So a gate would not readily fix that problem.

Those electro-collar things sounds like a go-to solution for such a boundary issue, but I would HATE to do such a thing to a dog.

The thing is, there are always plenty of people around the house throughout the summer, and of course I wouldn't expect a dog to stray while we are around. If we are away for several hours (everyone), is leaving him or her in the house for that period acceptable? I wouldn't honestly like to do that to a dog, and I feel this isn't an acceptable long term solution.

Cherry Blossom

The only way is to make sure that your property is completely secure. You are going to have to fence off the part that isn't secure or fence off part of your yard or use a run to keep the dog in, electric collars are not reliable regardless of whether they are ethical or not.

I wouldn't dream of leaving my dog outside when no-one is here, the safest place for her is locked inside the house.

meoklmrk91

Gumbi wrote: »

Thanks a lot. It sounds promising. I do know that they are on the restricted breeds list. It's very unfortunate, but that's the way it is. I also understand that something needs to be done about the entrance.

We are advocates of having two dogs, and something like introducing a rescue dog down the line sounds good. I'm worried about things like the fact that there are several dogs within a mile of the area that are, frankly, neglected. They are never exercised, have little contact with humans, and are, as a result quite aggressive. Thankfully, they are not within barking distance. The sheep thing is also another issue. If the dog escaped, and started chasing sheep, they (the sheep) could very possibly break a leg while running, and this would obviously creates huge problems.

And, unfortunately, it's not quite as simple as getting a gate. Most of the front is separated from the road by a thick screen of bushes/trees, through
which any wily dog (or human, for that matter) may gain access to the road. So a gate would not readily fix that problem.

Those electro-collar things sounds like a go-to solution for such a boundary issue, but I would HATE to do such a thing to a dog.

The thing is, there are always plenty of people around the house throughout the summer, and of course I wouldn't expect a dog to stray while we are around. If we are away for several hours (everyone), is leaving him or her in the house for that period acceptable? I wouldn't honestly like to do that to a dog, and I feel this isn't an acceptable long term solution.

While you may not think that it is fair to lock the dog in the house for hours at a time it is far better than the dog being outside and able to get into trouble or even stolen. Those electric collars are not ethical in my opinion and like the other poster said not reliable, I have seen many dogs strolling around the roads with electric collars that clearly did not do what they were supposed to. If you were perhaps to get a large run for the dog, put in a nice kennel with a comfy bed and some toys to aid boredom that my also be a solution.

Gumbi

Hmmmm.... I don't think it's possible to completely secure the property. What I can say is that leaving the property is not "straightforward". As in, road is not directly visible from the house. Is it reasonable to assume that the dog won't stray while people are around?

Leaving him in the house sounds while no one is around reasonable enough, in light of the above posts.

boomerang

Limerick Animal Welfare have a lovely female GSD pup at the moment, 10 months old. She'll be neutered before rehoming. They come out to check your garden is secure, but it sounds like it already is.

Re: Kerry - you could do what we do on hols, put a puppy gate across the front door so the dogs can look out or sit out, but can't run off. Or else go out with her when she needs to pee/poop/have a ramble. It's a bit of a pain but you get used to it!

Cherry Blossom

Gumbi wrote: »

Hmmmm.... I don't think it's possible to completely secure the property. What I can say is that leaving the property is not "straightforward". As in, road is not directly visible from the house. Is it reasonable to assume that the dog won't stray while people are around?

Leaving him in the house sounds while no one is around reasonable enough, in light of the above posts.

I have no idea what that means Of course a dog will stray regardless of whether there are 'people' around or not. You seem to be suggesting that dogs are attracted to roads or something and if they can't see it they will have no wish to look there?! A dogs territory is often defined by physical boundries, if there is no physical barrier that limits where he can go then he has no boundary. You aren't really making much sense to me, you seem genuinely concerned about the well-being of any potential dog, but not enough to put in the effort of building a fence. I can guarantee if you bring a dog into this situation it will be gone within a month one way or the other.

You need to make a decision, are you willing to take on a dog and be responsible for it (the biggest part of which is keeping it securely - no compromise), or not (in which case don't get a dog).

Gumbi

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

I have no idea what that means Of course a dog will stray regardless of whether there are 'people' around or not. You seem to be suggesting that dogs are attracted to roads or something and if they can't see it they will have no wish to look there?! A dogs territory is often defined by physical boundries, if there is no physical barrier that limits where he can go then he has no boundary. You aren't really making much sense to me, you seem genuinely concerned about the well-being of any potential dog, but not enough to put in the effort of building a fence. I can guarantee if you bring a dog into this situation it will be gone within a month one way or the other.

You need to make a decision, are you willing to take on a dog and be responsible for it (the biggest part of which is keeping it securely - no compromise), or not (in which case don't get a dog).

To be honest, there was no reason for me to make that statement. It just confuses things and comes off as a ramble.

I suppose a fence is necessary. Luckily, it only needs to be about 8 metres in length. Would it have to be a high fence? I truly care for animals, especially dogs, and wish for the experience of raising one (or more) to be as good for the dog as it is for me.

Does anyone have any advice relating to sheep etc.?

Any recommendations for breeders? Prices to look out for?

Thanks again for all the help. I want to be as prepared as possible for such a big undertaking.

DBB

Firstly, good for you for making enquiries first!
The first thing I'd suggest is to not get two littermates at the same time. I know it's been said that dogs reared together get on fine, but this has not been my experience when rehoming dogs: I get plenty of pairs of adult littermates in for rehoming every year that need to be separated because they fight.
Two males are reasonably likely to fight from time to time. Two females, if they do decide to fight, can really damage each other. The male-female combo tends to work best, as they rarely fight, other than minor squabbles. Generally, the closer the blood-ties, the more likely the fights will be quite serious if they do occur.
This is a general rule, obviously there are exceptions, but when you're heading out on a mission, you need to know the potential downfalls!
That all aside, training two pups is very hard work, and there is always the problem that they're so busy with each other, they're not concentrating on you.
So, go for it with one nice quality pup from a good breeder or a reputable rescue group. Then, when you have that pup reared a bit, behaving well, and concentrating on you, go for another one, preferably of the opposite sex (obviously, neutering needs to be done!)
As for sheep, of course you can acclimatise your pup to sheep: go and talk to the farmer to ask his permission to walk around his field, and bring your pup for very regular walks around the field so that he becomes bored stupid of sheep.
It's all about removing their novelty value: keep your distance at first, work on getting your pup focussing on you when you're a long way away from the sheep (using tasty treats), then with time, close the distance so that your pup can concentrate on you even if you're quite close to the sheep. Step by step, you'll have a dog who is reliable around livestock... but never forget that his DNA will always make him interested in rounding things up!
I am a huge GSD fan, but I would hate to be trying to buy one in Ireland these days, as it seems to me this breed has gone horribly downhill with cowboys breeding them. It shows in their conformation, health, and critically, their behaviour... there are a lot of really jumpy sheps out there these days.

Good luck!

Gumbi

This all sounds very promising. The main obstacle is sealing the property, really. (Which isn't a huge problem in itself, though doing so would involve actually making "The Big Commitment" ) I hope the city will be OK for it/them. The garden is a twelfth of an acre (around 300m2, so it's not tiny; but I expect regular exercise (minimum 1 hour walk/run per day) is necessary?

ppink

Gumbi wrote: »

If the dog escaped, and started chasing sheep, they (the sheep) could very possibly break a leg while running, and this would obviously creates huge problems.

If your dog chases sheep a broken leg will be the least of your worries. If you are leaving a chance that this may happen make sure your dog is on your house insurance in case of damage........and in a field of sheep this could be substantial as well as having your dog shot or PTS.

Gumbi wrote: »

Would it have to be a high fence?
.

our dog runs are 6ft high with nothing available to "springboard" off:).

DBB wrote: »

I am a huge GSD fan, but I would hate to be trying to buy one in Ireland these days, as it seems to me this breed has gone horribly downhill with cowboys breeding them. It shows in their conformation, health, and critically, their behaviour... there are a lot of really jumpy sheps out there these days.

Totally agree with this and cowboys dont just mean your average Joe at home in his back garden either...I have nto been to a dog show in a while but even last year when i went they were still parading around sheps with sloping backs and totally unstable back legs.

Gumbi wrote: »

This all sounds very promising. The main obstacle is sealing the property, really. (Which isn't a huge problem in itself, though doing so would involve actually making "The Big Commitment" ) I hope the city will be OK for it/them. The garden is a twelfth of an acre (around 300m2, so it's not tiny; but I expect regular exercise (minimum 1 hour walk/run per day) is necessary?

walking time depends on if you get a pup or not. pups are not supposed to be walked for too long as their joints are not able for it.

ohmfg

We have two male Sheps. They are littermates and we got them when they were 9 weeks old. They are now nearly 8 years old and there has never been so much as a nasty look between them never mind a fight. Now, I do accept that may be more good luck than anything else but I just want to let the OP now that it is possible - however, two pups, regardless of their paternity is not for the faint hearted!

We live in the countryside and are surrounded by fields of cows and sheep. Our daily walk involves navigating through little clusters of cows and the lads have been trained to come to heel and walk nicely when we meet the cows. There is never an issue and they have never chased the cows. They are less bomb proof around the sheep - mainly due to the oh so tempting sight of the idiotic sheep running like loonies - but still, they have never chased them.

It's all down to training. If you put the time and commitment in, chances are anything will be possible.

On the issue of the boundary in Kerry.
Is it possible to create a visible boundary that the dog could be trained not to pass? Like a row of fluttering flags maybe, the dog would know that this was the point past which they can not go. That sort of boundary only works when you are around to monitor of course.
When all the family are away the only safe place for your dog in locked inside the house.

Good luck with your search and may I just say, if you are as lucky as we are with our guys, you will be a very happy doggie owner:)

Gumbi

This sounds great. I'm sure it is possible visually designate a boundary, but that does leave some things to chance. I agree with adrenalinjunkie in that making sure the dogs are secure is very, very important.

That sounds promising with the sheep, too. My previous experience with sheep-chasing was with a Jack Russell (surprisingly his sister had no interest at all in them!). Would that have more to do with the fact that they were bred as fox hunters?

I think the biggest issue is the boundary, and something needs to be done about that.

Also, don't worry, I understand that pups shouldn't be over-exercised!

**Vai**

OP fair play, you sound commited to bringing up these dogs well. Make sure they get loads of exercise or they will chew your house up. The only thing I wanted to say is you mentioned keeping them enclosed in your garden with an e-collar type thing. GSDs will outsmart that system by the time they hit a year old, they are far too intelligent to keep in using this method. I'd look into putting up decent (at least 6/7 feet high) fencing wherever they might get out instead.

**Vai**

ppink wrote: »

I have nto been to a dog show in a while but even last year when i went they were still parading around sheps with sloping backs and totally unstable back legs.

That is my pet peeve, GSDs with sloping backs. Its disgusting looking and seems to me to only be used in the showing world without regard for the breeds health.

Gumbi

**Vai** wrote: »

OP fair play, you sound commited to bringing up these dogs well. Make sure they get loads of exercise or they will chew your house up. The only thing I wanted to say is you mentioned keeping them enclosed in your garden with an e-collar type thing. GSDs will outsmart that system by the time they hit a year old, they are far too intelligent to keep in using this method. I'd look into putting up decent (at least 6/7 feet high) fencing wherever they might get out instead.

Thanks.

I never intended to use the collar system anyway. I expect fencing is the way to go. Sounds like a bit of a job, though. The actual driveway entrance is very, very wide.

Does anybody know of a good breeder that they can recommend?

Thanks again, you've all been a great help.

nicky chick

Just be careful who you get your pup from and I know it may cost more but do get a dog that is IKC reg at least you have some come back if something goes wrong. I am speaking from experience as we brought our gs and she wasnt registered, but we seen her mother. She has actually turned out to be a dwarf and has quite a few medical problems.

meoklmrk91

Gumbi wrote: »

**Vai** wrote: »

OP fair play, you sound commited to bringing up these dogs well. Make sure they get loads of exercise or they will chew your house up. The only thing I wanted to say is you mentioned keeping them enclosed in your garden with an e-collar type thing. GSDs will outsmart that system by the time they hit a year old, they are far too intelligent to keep in using this method. I'd look into putting up decent (at least 6/7 feet high) fencing wherever they might get out instead.

Thanks.

I never intended to use the collar system anyway. I expect fencing is the way to go. Sounds like a bit of a job, though. The actual driveway entrance is very, very wide.

Does anybody know of a good breeder that they can recommend?

Thanks again, you've all been a great help.

Your best bet is to get in contact with the IKC or visit their website as I think they have a list of breeders for each breed. Also I would recommend that you go with a breeder who does hip scoring, as hip dysplasia is a common issue with GSD's.

Gumbi

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

Your best bet is to get in contact with the IKC or visit their website as I think they have a list of breeders for each breed. Also I would recommend that you go with a breeder who does hip scoring, as hip dysplasia is a common issue with GSD's.

Thanks. I am certainly aware of the potential issues with the breed from the thread link I posted in my original post. I'll have a look at the site now.

Thanks!

DBB

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

Your best bet is to get in contact with the IKC or visit their website as I think they have a list of breeders for each breed. Also I would recommend that you go with a breeder who does hip scoring, as hip dysplasia is a common issue with GSD's.

You see, this is why I despair for anyone looking for a nicely bred, properly-conformed, mentally and physically healthy GSD in Ireland. Normally, you're reasonably safe contacting the IKC, or breed society, and I would endorse this approach entirely.
But my fear with GSDs is that slopey-back frogdogs are still winning in the showring (a frogdog won Best of Group and got into the finals of Crufts this year:mad:), which makes me wonder are the judges, and therefore breeders, really committed to producing dogs with a nice straight-backed, strong-hipped conformation.
The slopey back not only predisposes the dog to hip dysplasia (and I spoke to a rescue contact of mine today who has a 12 week old GSD pup in with Hip Dysplasia. Yes, you read that right. 12 weeks old.), but also is a dead cert for causing spondylosis and arthritis from an early age.
So, make sure the parents are hip scored to your satisfaction, and in the case of GSDs, make sure you meet both dam and sire so you can inspect their conformation.
I would love to know of anyone here who knows GSD breeders who are really brilliant and breeding away from slopiness. My own GSD was from great lines and had super hips and back, and temperament, but her breeder isn't really in it any more.
OP, just an FYI... Louth SPCA have an 11 month old female GSD available now. Daft as a brush and needs training, but that'd be normal enough for an 11 month old!

meoklmrk91

DBB wrote: »

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

Your best bet is to get in contact with the IKC or visit their website as I think they have a list of breeders for each breed. Also I would recommend that you go with a breeder who does hip scoring, as hip dysplasia is a common issue with GSD's.

You see, this is why I despair for anyone looking for a nicely bred, properly-conformed, mentally and physically healthy GSD in Ireland. Normally, you're reasonably safe contacting the IKC, or breed society, and I would endorse this approach entirely.
But my fear with GSDs is that slopey-back frogdogs are still winning in the showring (a frogdog won Best of Group and got into the finals of Crufts this year:mad:), which makes me wonder are the judges, and therefore breeders, really committed to producing dogs with a nice straight-backed, strong-hipped conformation.
The slopey back not only predisposes the dog to hip dysplasia (and I spoke to a rescue contact of mine today who has a 12 week old GSD pup in with Hip Dysplasia. Yes, you read that right. 12 weeks old.), but also is a dead cert for causing spondylosis and arthritis from an early age.
So, make sure the parents are hip scored to your satisfaction, and in the case of GSDs, make sure you meet both dam and sire so you can inspect their conformation.
I would love to know of anyone here who knows GSD breeders who are really brilliant and breeding away from slopiness. My own GSD was from great lines and had super hips and back, and temperament, but her breeder isn't really in it any more.
OP, just an FYI... Louth SPCA have an 11 month old female GSD available now. Daft as a brush and needs training, but that'd be normal enough for an 11 month old!

Well said, I completely agree with you. Such a pity that this magnificent breed has had it's health ruined in order for cosmetic reasons in the show ring. And you would think that the kc would be doing everything in their power to preserve the health of the breed.

ppink

Totally agree with DBB here as regards the IKC and GSD's. Approach with caution!
I know my vet has searched long and hard for a decent line of GSD for one for himself but was not able to get one he was happy with.

As an aside I have a flat backed GSD with excellent hips but she has spondylosis so you can never tell!
This all sounds ok OP until you end up like me with a very high energy dog that cannot exercise from 3 years old. I will admit I did not put anywhere near the amount of effort required into the purchase of that dog but I learned my lesson and next time I will spend a long time researching.

Gumbi

ppink wrote: »

Totally agree with DBB here as regards the IKC and GSD's. Approach with caution!
I know my vet has searched long and hard for a decent line of GSD for one for himself but was not able to get one he was happy with.

As an aside I have a flat backed GSD with excellent hips but she has spondylosis so you can never tell!
This all sounds ok OP until you end up like me with a very high energy dog that cannot exercise from 3 years old. I will admit I did not put anywhere near the amount of effort required into the purchase of that dog but I learned my lesson and next time I will spend a long time researching.

I'm so sorry to hear about your dog. That's so sad.

From browsing around, I found this website:<snip> (which seems to me to be the most suitable of the three that I found). Does anyone have anything good to say about it (or bad, even)? I've had a look at some of the Animal Welfare/ISPCA regional sites (individual counties) and there are some very nice females out there.

DBB

Hi Gumbi,
I'm assuming you want us to be critical?:D
Nice setup from the point of view that they seemt o get interaction with kids, used to wearing harnesses, in and about the house, lots of play etc. Looks good from that perspective.
But...
There's always a but!
A couple of the photos concern me. The dog standing near the green sign, I don't much like his hind-leg posture nor development. He looks cow-hocked, and his hind legs from hip to ground just don't look strong enough or muscled well to me. What do others think?
Also, there is one picture that set off alarm bells, it's near the end, it's a dog sitting down on his right butt-cheek with both legs off to one side. There's a blue barrel to the right of the pic!
The way that dogs is sitting shouts HIPS! at me. he doesn't look comfortable, and most dogs of different breeds I've met with hip problems had this strange way of perching on the tip of their butt, rather than sitting onto their hip like a healthy dog does.
It can, or course, be difficult to tell from photos, but that's what strikes me about them.
I'd be interested to hear from others with more experience of the breed than I!:)

Chris_Heilong

I agree 100%, when I was very young we had a long haired straight backed German Shepherd and he lived until he was 14, but a lot of breeders have been breeding for slopped backs because thats what wins show and what a German Shepherd was meant to look like
A lot of these people that show their shepherds are connected and I am sure have become Judges at shows but also have the slopped backed bloodlines and I am sure they are not ready to loose what they feel they have worked hard to create and start over which I understand but disagree with.

Cherry Blossom

This isn't going to be explained again - no linking of websites for public dissection and inquiry!

Cherry Blossom

OP - you need to do your research and find out what scores are acceptable, then contact any potentials and ask them what the scores of their dogs are. Have you tried contacting any of the working gsd clubs for advice? If not you should probably start there.

Gumbi

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

This isn't going to be explained again - no linking of websites for public dissection and inquiry!

Sorry

Gumbi

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

OP - you need to do your research and find out what scores are acceptable, then contact any potentials and ask them what the scores of their dogs are. Have you tried contacting any of the working gsd clubs for advice? If not you should probably start there.

Thanks. I guess I think I have enough info to start the real research now.

Cherry Blossom

Gumbi wrote: »

Sorry

No worries! We had every re-homing ad from Donedeal posted here last week just so people could tear the owners of these dogs to shreds without their knowledge and we can't have separate rules for different sites!

Sittingpretty

Firstly, congratulations on choosing a gsd.

I have an almost 5 ye old bitch, fantastic dog, she is a rescue.

I would have to say though the first thing you would have to do is have a completely secure garden. Also dogs are fine and safer to be left indoors when u are not there. I wish when I got none I got two together as now my girl is too set and prob a bit too spoiled to welcome a newbie!

There are some fab rescue sheps out there, try the gsd section on irishanimals.com or there is a web page for north west gsd rescue they also have fab sheps looking for great homes.

If u are going the breeding route I would suggest looking for working line rather than show line that would be my pref anyways

Best if luck and when u do get your pup or pups be sure to post pics!

meoklmrk91

Oh and OP just wanted to let you know that there are often GSD's at Limerick Animal Welfare and even if you don't decide to adopt the sanctuary us well worth a visit.

Gumbi

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

Oh and OP just wanted to let you know that there are often GSD's at Limerick Animal Welfare and even if you don't decide to adopt the sanctuary us well worth a visit.

I certainly will!

lrushe

DBB wrote: »

You see, this is why I despair for anyone looking for a nicely bred, properly-conformed, mentally and physically healthy GSD in Ireland. Normally, you're reasonably safe contacting the IKC, or breed society, and I would endorse this approach entirely.
But my fear with GSDs is that slopey-back frogdogs are still winning in the showring (a frogdog won Best of Group and got into the finals of Crufts this year:mad:), which makes me wonder are the judges, and therefore breeders, really committed to producing dogs with a nice straight-backed, strong-hipped conformation.
The slopey back not only predisposes the dog to hip dysplasia (and I spoke to a rescue contact of mine today who has a 12 week old GSD pup in with Hip Dysplasia. Yes, you read that right. 12 weeks old.), but also is a dead cert for causing spondylosis and arthritis from an early age.
So, make sure the parents are hip scored to your satisfaction, and in the case of GSDs, make sure you meet both dam and sire so you can inspect their conformation.
I would love to know of anyone here who knows GSD breeders who are really brilliant and breeding away from slopiness. My own GSD was from great lines and had super hips and back, and temperament, but her breeder isn't really in it any more.

I would recommend contacting one the Schutzhund groups like GSA Ireland. The dogs involved in this are bred to work so their animals have to be pysically fit and strong. Their dogs are 'alot more German Shepherd' than the average pet GS but I think it is a truier representation of the breed, German Shepherds were not bred to be big teddy bears or couch potatoes, they were bred to be a serious working dog and I think breeding should revert back to this idea.

1c1a

Just wanted to throw my opinion into the ring, first of all German Shepards are brilliant dogs, very loyal, we've always had one. Like you, we used to spend a lot of time in Kerry and sheep were a major problem as we were up in the mountains. Our dog's never roamed at home but as soon as we went down to a strange place they were little brats for running off. They often roamed onto land with sheep on it, we were lucky because the land happened to belong to an uncle of my dads but if it had not it would have caused major problems. My advice to you would be if your going to get a German Shepard get a younger one who you can train properly, personally i dont agree with my next bit of advice but i have heard good reports about it, invest in a dog electric fence and you shouldnt have a problem with roaming! Best of luck and try and get one.

Ailishcrehan

Just worth mentioning - I have a 2yr old GSD x and she is an escape artist! She is exercised plenty, a house dog, sleeps in at night, is in the house most of the day apart from walks and toilet breaks, she is a happy, contented sweetheart and has dogs and cats for company - but at any given opportunity she will escape. The first time it happened we increased our fences (chicken wire and posts) and she chewed through the chicken wire. We then got stronger chicken wire and raised the fences - she dug her way out. She gets through the smallest gaps and thickest shrubbery imaginable, so now we don't let her into the garden at all unless we are with her. It is really important that the garden is 100% secure, or it could potentially end in tears if the dogs get out.

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axle108

well said DBB. post #15 .best advice.
i have a 1 year old male, first gsd and being new to this breed, had and have a lot to learn. im the one in training. tall order to try train 2. as for property not fenced, you dont want the grief. better to err on the safe side, that way you can enjoy your holidays and dog.

Gumbi

Having continually discussed this with my family, we think it's possible.

Fencing is not an issue at all, as we can wire-fence between six large trees which mark the border of our property (and mark the transition between our property and the road). It is not this area that bothers us, as there is already a natural screen of large shrubbery and bushes before those trees anyway, but the driveway itself, which would require a large gate. At first glance, this is the first step in our decision of getting a dog which requires real investment. In addition, we aren't really sure if there are any specific ones we should be looking for?

Shammy

DBB wrote: »

The slopey back not only predisposes the dog to hip dysplasia (and I spoke to a rescue contact of mine today who has a 12 week old GSD pup in with Hip Dysplasia. Yes, you read that right. 12 weeks old.), but also is a dead cert for causing spondylosis and arthritis from an early age.
So, make sure the parents are hip scored to your satisfaction, and in the case of GSDs, make sure you meet both dam and sire so you can inspect their conformation.
!

Hip dysplasia is genetic , they are usually born with it. Even if both parents have grade A hips and elbows does not guarntee that the pup will.

lrushe wrote: »

I would recommend contacting one the Schutzhund groups like GSA Ireland. The dogs involved in this are bred to work so their animals have to be pysically fit and strong. Their dogs are 'alot more German Shepherd' than the average pet GS but I think it is a truier representation of the breed, German Shepherds were not bred to be big teddy bears or couch potatoes, they were bred to be a serious working dog and I think breeding should revert back to this idea.

Ten years ago i would have fully agreed with you , but clubs and organisations change , Gumbi if you do decide to go down this road i would advise you to be very very careful.

Best of luck with whatever shepherd you pick be it straight back or not , either way the parents must have the proper temperment of a gsd .

DBB

Shammy wrote: »

Hip dysplasia is genetic , they are usually born with it. Even if both parents have grade A hips and elbows does not guarntee that the pup will.

I think it's clear that hip-scoring only give an indication that the pups have a better chance of having healthier hips... If both parents have good hips, there's a better chance genetically that the pups will have healthier hips. But it is certainly not a guarantee, because we also have to bear in mind that there is a strong environmental component to Hip Dysplasia, relating to early diet and joint-care of young dogs. If it were only genetic, it could be more easily eradicated, or at least, controlled.
I feel it's important to see the parent's conformation to ensure both parents have good, straight backs and move well, as it's not possible to discern these physical traits in a puppy. Again, unless you're well versed in your pup's lines, this is only a guideline, the chances of success higher if you know your lines.
There is an acute form, which young dogs develop and which they "grow out of" by about 18 months, and there is a chronic form, which adult dogs develop and which is only manageable, or if bad enough, operable.
Gumbi, I'm very pleased that you feel it's a runner with some preparation! All that's left once the garden is secure is to find your perfect dog!:)

axle108

Hi Gumbi
best of luck, your doing your research. im sure youll sort out gate. good luck with that. as for finding a suitable dog, i asked other owners, talked to local vet and got recommmendations of various breeders. some names came up a lot. ring breeders, most are happy to answer any questions on the breed in general. unfortunately one could drive themself nuts with all the worry of sloping backs, elbow and hip displasia. we can only do our research and be happy with the choice we finally make.

Shammy

axle108 wrote: »

Hi Gumbi
best of luck, your doing your research. im sure youll sort out gate. good luck with that. as for finding a suitable dog, i asked other owners, talked to local vet and got recommmendations of various breeders. some names came up a lot. ring breeders, most are happy to answer any questions on the breed in general. unfortunately one could drive themself nuts with all the worry of sloping backs, elbow and hip displasia. we can only do our research and be happy with the choice we finally make.

Just to add to that for the op , a reputable breeder will replace the pup if there are any problems such as hip dysplasia .

lrushe

Shammy wrote: »

Ten years ago i would have fully agreed with you , but clubs and organisations change ,

Really, how so?

axle108

Shammy wrote: »

Just to add to that for the op , a reputable breeder will replace the pup if there are any problems such as hip dysplasia .

well said. got mine from a well known and respected breeder and a gentleman to deal with. they have a passion for the gsd.

ferretone

Shammy wrote: »

Just to add to that for the op , a reputable breeder will replace the pup if there are any problems such as hip dysplasia .

Actually I find this a little disturbing, that anyone could find this satisfactory. Once you've bonded with your dog, trained him, lived with him and love him, then find he has a physical disability, well never mind, here's a replacement

Come on now, he's not a lawn-mower or a washing machine! Some kind of veterinary cover to deal with the problem would make a lot more sense to me. This smacks of breeding for something other than companionship, and as DBB has said, I wouldn't be too confident with buying from the ringside crowd for GSDs.

To be honest, I tend to agree with Irushe, who recommended the Schutzhund breeding. At least these are still being required to be fit for a job, which would give me a lot more confidence in their physical health and well-being, although I would still be very careful about how good they are in terms of the temperament and general demeanour of all of the breeder's dogs, as there will be good and bad breeders in all disciplines.