Do non-parents REALLY understand what it's like to be a parent?

thebigbiffo

I'm very curious about this and think it deserves its own thread and poll seperate from the debate on bad parenting happening in another thread.

I'm a parent of a 2 and 4 year old. Until I had them I had NO idea how much it would have an effect on me emotionally and physically and I had no idea how much time, effort and energy went into raising children.

I have had this discussion with other parents and all agree they underestimated how difficult it was - yet, there seems to be a very very large contingent on here who believe they DO know what it's like to be a parent even though they may not be one. Over in the other thread, a response to one of my posts even went to far as to say they understood what it was like to be in a war because they treat patients with PTSD and understand the effects...I think this is completely off the page; you can understand the effects maybe, but knowing the depth of emotional anguish that comes with it is impossible (and I believe it’s very arrogant to suggest otherwise). I don’t like the analogy, but that’s what I believe; without being a parent yourself you cannot know the depth of involvement on all physical and emotional levels.

So, my questions are this: are you a parent and did you know what it was going to be like, are you a non-parent and believe you know what it will be like? Has anyone who became a parent really got what they expected 100% of the time and knew exactly how they were going to raise them?

*note for the mods: this relates specially to what non-parents think so I think AH is the best place and it’s separate from the other ‘bad parenting’ thread going on at the moment because I was lambasted for raising this issue on more occasions than I wish to reference and told it was off topic.

ElleEm

I don't have any kids, but I have a good understanding of the issues and stresses of being a parent. I have worked with children and families for years (babysitting/ au pair/ creche/ family centres/ homeless services, etc.).

I am, however, very aware that I do not know what it is like to BE a parent.

I love kids, and can't wait to have them, but nothing reminds you how hard it will be than taking a loan of your nieces and nephews for a few days. It is exhausting!!

Due to my job, I have actually spend a lot of time working with parents and giving them advice and stuff. None of them have ever asked me do I have kids or not. Good advice is good advice! Sometimes people who don't have kids can give good advice and support to parents, as they have an objective point of view.

Kanoe

no

KnifeWRENCH

Having seen my sister and her husband with their two young children I think I've a pretty good idea of what to expect.
And that's why I've decided to never ever become a parent.

Biggins

Father of four here.

You can read all the books you want. Watch all the TV parenting programmes you want and listen to all the advice you want by friend and relative - that said NOTHING prepares you fully for being a parent.

Your child/children will be all individuals - each different and each up to their own special antics and personality traits/qualities.
So while you might have a broad idea how to react in a non-emergency/emergency situation, on the day or in the minute, each case is special and no absolutes can be applied to full degree.

Einhard

thebigbiffo wrote: »

I had no idea how much time, effort and energy went into raising children...

Over in the other thread, a response to one of my posts even went to far as to say they understood what it was like to be in a war because they treat patients with PTSD and understand the effects...

but knowing the depth of emotional anguish that comes with it is impossible...

without being a parent yourself you cannot know the depth of involvement on all physical and emotional levels...

I don't know what it's like to be a parent, and from the picture you're painting (emotional anguish etc), I don't think I want to become one any time soon!

Emoi

thebigbiffo wrote: »

I'm very curious about this and think it deserves its own thread and poll seperate from the debate on bad parenting happening in another thread.

Wow you really did take it personally didn't you?!

IvyTheTerrible

I think as a non-parent with experience with kids, I can understand to a certain extent but not completely.

HOWEVER, I also think that just by being a parent does not mean you understand all parents or all the issues children have. Some parents seem to think that having one child makes them childcare experts.

starlit

Unless they regularly babysit/work in childcare or have nieces/nephews would non-parents have any understanding what its like to be a parent. Different ball game of course when it comes to raising children but they are on an equal level when it comes to looking after kids.

Dudess

Emoi wrote: »

Wow you really did take it personally didn't you?!

No... he didn't?

nevaeh-2die-4

jesus christ what a stupid thread,

if you dont have kids there is no way of knowing whats its like to be a parent,

same with if you have cancer, i might think i know how you feel but until your in there shoes you have no idea.

Up de Barrs

Parents are often very patronising to non parents, implying that unless you have children of your own you are not able to empathise with certain situations. I'm not sure if this is a deliberate way of putting people down or inadvertent but it is extremely annoying.

mikemac

"As a parent......" is used a lot on boards

I'll read your post and consider your opinion but it doesn't automatically make it more valid then a non parent

But ask a question and the reply might be
"One day you'll understand...."

As Up de Barrs says, it can come across as patronizing

Logical Fallacy

No real idea as to what it's like to be a parent, seeing as i am not a parent.

I still reserve the right to dislike parents who make no effort to control errant children though.

The other thread must have hit you hard OP.

K_P

I really don't see the point of this. I'm not a parent. If I say I know what to expect, I'll be told that I'm fooling myself and I don't really. If I say I don't know what to expect, I'll be merely stating the obvious.

Of course I don't know what it's REALLY like to be a parent, no more than I fully understand the intricacies of anything that I haven't personally experienced. But I have a fair idea from seeing friends and family with young kids. I know enough to know it's not for me.

That doesn't preclude me from having opinions on the parenting skills of others. I haven't passed my driving test yet - I can still spot a shi**y driver when I see one. The same applies to parenting.

Noffles

I have kids... and the main thing is that people don't realise is that it changes EVERYTHING... it really does... not all for the good either...

Personally I'm still waiting for the "payoff"... 16 years later and I don't see it... still worrying, still concerned, still running around doing **** things that you would never do as a non parent..

And before anyone says it, again, I'm not a bad parent and love the nipper as much as anyone loves theirs... but in no way will I paint a rose tinted picture about it...

Ooops, off track there a little... erm, back on it, rename this thread, " do they know how awful it is"..

o1s1n

mikemac wrote: »

"As a parent......" is used a lot on boards

I'll read your post and consider your opinion but it doesn't automatically make it more valid then a non parent

But ask a question and the reply might be
"One day you'll understand...."

As Up de Barrs says, it can come across as patronizing

'Speaking as a mother.....'

Usually followed rather swiftly with -

'Won't someone please think of the children?!'

thebigbiffo

nevaeh-2die-4 wrote: »

jesus christ what a stupid thread,

if you dont have kids there is no way of knowing whats its like to be a parent,

same with if you have cancer, i might think i know how you feel but until your in there shoes you have no idea.

Don’t think you’ve got the point mate. I’m looking for all those AH posters who were thanking the s’hit out of posts which were stating they were sick of parents saying ‘you don’t know what it’s like’…it seems obvious in this thread so far, but there’s plenty of boardsies out there who should be arguing differently.

Logical Fallacy

Noffles wrote: »

I have kids... and the main thing is that people don't realise is that it changes EVERYTHING... it really does... not all for the good either...

Well people must be pretty damn stupid then. Of course it changes everything. Hell, i have no kids and even I can figure out that taking on responsibility for another life, for their safety, security, happiness and dreams is a ****ing massive, life altering thing with the potential for both incredible happiness and sadness involved.

minidazzler

To be honest, the "do you know what it's like to be a parent" has been trotted out to me when I complain about parents being ****. I'm not a parent, but I am a carer for my 16 year old sister, who happens to be wheelchair bound, and I have been for around 6 years. It's hard yeah, but if you let your kids run riot in public places such as trains and buses, you suck as a parent.

So I would say I am mostly clued into what it's like.

donalg1

Right I will answer this question once and for all. I am a non parent and i do appreciate it is very hard to raise a child. However if it is as bad as every parent makes out why do any of them have more than 1?
Maybe the OP can answer that as he has a 2 yr old and 4yr so if the 4yr old was so hard to raise why have the other one?

RichieC

I know it would cost a **** load of money.. otherwise probably not.

jester77

I would hate to be a parent.... and that is coming from someone who was once a kid!

bandit197

I'm not a parent but I am of the opinion that looking after your own is easier than looking after someone else's.

Einhard

Noffles wrote: »

I have kids... and the main thing is that people don't realise is that it changes EVERYTHING... it really does... not all for the good either...

Personally I'm still waiting for the "payoff"... 16 years later and I don't see it... still worrying, still concerned, still running around doing **** things that you would never do as a non parent..

And before anyone says it, again, I'm not a bad parent and love the nipper as much as anyone loves theirs... but in no way will I paint a rose tinted picture about it...

Ooops, off track there a little... erm, back on it, rename this thread, " do they know how awful it is"..

Isn't the child itself the "payoff"?

ElleEm

donalg1 wrote: »

Right I will answer this question once and for all. I am a non parent and i do appreciate it is very hard to raise a child. However if it is as bad as every parent makes out why do any of them have more than 1?
Maybe the OP can answer that as he has a 2 yr old and 4yr so if the 4yr old was so hard to raise why have the other one?

It's not as simple as that. Parents ALWAYS talk about how rewarding it is to have a child. Yes, it's hard, but allegedly it's worth it!!

WindSock

I'd imagine its a pain in the hole if you're a parent and some arrogant young pissant thinks they know better, having no experience themselves with kids, or of being a parent.
However, sometimes it helps to have some friendly outside, objective observation on situations.
It must be godawful to have your brain filled with nappies, babytalk and sticky plastic toys though.

Dudess

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

The other thread must have hit you hard OP.

I don't think that's fair LF. I completely understand where the OP is coming from - and I'm not even a parent. It must be so frustrating to be told you're a failure as a parent etc by people who don't have kids yet are self proclaimed experts. Yes, you have the right to get irked by kids older than toddler age whose parents blatantly don't make an effort to stop them acting up in public, but some people on threads like that other one go much further. They practically view a baby crying as failed parenting.

curlywurly26

I have to agree with nevaeh-2die-4 here!

Does anyone know what it's like to be me? No - you know why? Because they're not me. My friends and family might come close to guessing from what they know about and hear from me, but they don't know...

Same with living with illnesses, having a pet and yes, having a child!

But, just as importantly, just because you have a child doesn't mean you know what every other parent feels like. People have different experiences depending on what happens in life so I don't think anyone can KNOW what to expect.

I don't know what you expected from his thread - as said below, it sounds patronising as if you just want to get another chance to say "ohhh no you'll never understand unless you have them..."

donalg1

Dudess wrote: »

I don't think that's fair LF. I completely understand where the OP is coming from - and I'm not even a parent. It must be so frustrating to be told you're a failure as a parent etc by people who don't have kids yet are self proclaimed experts. Yes, you have the right to get irked by kids older than toddler age whose parents blatantly don't make an effort to stop them acting up in public, but some people on threads like that other one go much further. They practically view a baby crying as failed parenting.

The point of the other thread is failed parenting is doing nothing while the child cries

ItsNoAlias

Practically raised my sisters kids when I was fostered, 3 of them, when I was 8- till the time I was 20. As my sister and I were fostered by our elder sister she needed to work to pay the bills, plus she was in college so yes I do believe I have a good understanding as to what it means to "raise" children.

However that is not what being a parent means. I got them ready for school, cooked, cleaned and generally took care of them but I didnt have to worry about other things that parents do like bills and money etc until I was much older.

So in a sense yes but also no. Its a much bigger question when you examine it. Practically I believe I can understand what it means to be a parent but emotionally, no. I love my two nieces and newphew however what the experience thought me is that I dont want to be a parent.

thomasm

Father of 3 under the age of three and the one thing I never anticipated was how relentless it was. Your own time does not exist anymore.

TheZohanS

Some people are not cut out to raise kids and make shìt parents. They blame their shìt parenting skills on the likes of "kids will be kids" and other nonsense.

If you're having trouble raising kids ask for help off someone that's good with kids. If you're still having trouble wear a fùcking condom in future, the last thing we need is more unruly antisocial scrotes running around.

Shpuds

In 2008 My sister got very sick, i had full custody of her four children for 18 months. It hit my like a ton of bricks, sure i was only 24 i didnt have plan on raising a baby, a toddler an eight year old and an 11 year old. It was the most rewarding thing i have ever done, but it was SO hard. I never ever thought it would be that hard and all credit to parents who do a good job!

I am a non parent who thought I knew what to expect until my sister had her daughter 8 months ago. After living with both for 8 months I can not imagine having full responsibility for a child.

thebigbiffo

Up de Barrs wrote: »

Parents are often very patronising to non parents, implying that unless you have children of your own you are not able to empathise with certain situations. I'm not sure if this is a deliberate way of putting people down or inadvertent but it is extremely annoying.

mikemac wrote: »

"As a parent......" is used a lot on boards

I'll read your post and consider your opinion but it doesn't automatically make it more valid then a non parent

But ask a question and the reply might be
"One day you'll understand...."

As Up de Barrs says, it can come across as patronizing

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

No real idea as to what it's like to be a parent, seeing as i am not a parent.

I still reserve the right to dislike parents who make no effort to control errant children though.

The other thread must have hit you hard OP.

This is the crux of the matter for me – it may be annoying and it may be patronising but it’s the truth. In threads relating to bad parenting and s’hitty children, people hate the line – but it’s more than valid. A story about a child who has wrecked your head in a restaurant can have a completely different meaning to a parent than it does to a non-parent and stating that as part of a post, and assuming another post you are quoting or referring to is a non-parent is more than valid, no matter how patronising or annoying it is – it’s simply the truth that yes, when it comes to having an opinion about errant children parents may very well have the more insightful viewpoint!!

donalg1 wrote: »

Right I will answer this question once and for all. I am a non parent and i do appreciate it is very hard to raise a child. However if it is as bad as every parent makes out why do any of them have more than 1?
Maybe the OP can answer that as he has a 2 yr old and 4yr so if the 4yr old was so hard to raise why have the other one?

I’d say in most cases it’s so the child is not an only child. Was with us and the decision to have another came in the middle of a bad evening with the first – we thought we may as well have two together and get it over with instead of putting up with this s’hit again in a few years time! We were wrong L

Malari

I'm not sure how to answer this poll, as it sort of pre-supposes everyone either has kids, or will have at some point.

So I'm a non-parent, and yeah, I think I have a pretty good idea of what it would entail so I'm never going to be one.

Jeez, having a demanding cat is enough. At least you can put it outside or go out for a meal and just leave it at home. People really frown upon doing that with kids.

Logical Fallacy

Dudess wrote: »

I don't think that's fair LF. I completely understand where the OP is coming from - and I'm not even a parent. It must be so frustrating to be told you're a failure as a parent etc by people who don't have kids yet are self proclaimed experts. Yes, you have the right to get irked by kids older than toddler age whose parents blatantly don't make an effort to stop them acting up in public, but some people on threads like that other one go much further. They practically view a baby crying as failed parenting.

Myself and this threads OP were basically saying the same thing in the other thread...because he was a parent and i wasn't he viewed what i was saying as arrogant.

That kind of strikes me that he was taking it a bit personal and just doesn't seem to like when non-parents would dare to say anything negative about parents.

I mean seriously, we said pretty much exactly the same thing. It was ****ing hilarious.

hightower1

nevaeh-2die-4 wrote: »

if you dont have kids there is no way of knowing whats its like to be a parent,

same with if you have cancer, i might think i know how you feel but until your in there shoes you have no idea.

So ..... much... WIN!!

"Kids = cancer" ...

Personally, never having kids. Seen too many of my family have their quality of life drained in nearly every way by kids to want them.

Pros -
Might turn out to be good important people
Helps march the human race forward

Cons -
Smelly
Noisy
Generally degredation of sex life
Money pits
Might turn out to be wastes of space people
Terrible sense of humour

That and I like my spare time / money wayyyyy too mch to give them over to snotty nose children

thebigbiffo

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Myself and this threads OP were basically saying the same thing in the other thread...because he was a parent and i wasn't he viewed what i was saying as arrogant.

That kind of strikes me that he was taking it a bit personal and just doesn't seem to like when non-parents would dare to say anything negative about parents.

I mean seriously, we said pretty much exactly the same thing. It was ****ing hilarious.

I didn’t like your post that – basically – told me to stuff the fact I’m a parent. And this thread is an expansion of that because of the amount of people who thanked that post. I am seriously just curious as to how people think this is valid. If I was a rape victim and the thread was about rape, you would accept my opinion might matter more than yours. War vet. Deep sea diver. Astronaut. Why is then that you believe you know better than a parent about raising kids? And why are you so annoyed by my stating such a simple point?

Big Knox

My girlfriend is currently expecting and this thread has not done me any favours. :pac:

Emoi

minidazzler wrote: »

To be honest, the "do you know what it's like to be a parent" has been trotted out to me when I complain about parents being ****. I'm not a parent, but I am a carer for my 16 year old sister, who happens to be wheelchair bound, and I have been for around 6 years. It's hard yeah, but if you let your kids run riot in public places such as trains and buses, you suck as a parent.

So I would say I am mostly clued into what it's like.

This is exactly why any parent of a healthy child who uses that 'you just don't know how hard it is' line, needs to shUt up and put up.

I have a family member with an autistic child of about 8, he never sleeps, goes mental if somebody looks at him, in strange houses he goes under tables and won't come out.

His parents NEVER complain about how hard their life is, they just get on with it.

Do non-parents REALLY understand what it's like to be a parent?

No, they're not parents, how would they??

What non-parents and parents can't stand is the parents of badly behaved, spoilt children, who go around in their own world feeling sorry for themselves and telling everyone who will listen how hard there lives are trying to raise HEALTHY children, who have no mental or physical issues.

thebigbiffo

Big Knox wrote: »

My girlfriend is currently expecting and this thread has not done me any favours. :pac:

you poor bastard, your life is over...and I'm a parent so i'd know best :pac:

IvyTheTerrible

thebigbiffo wrote: »

I didn’t like your post that – basically – told me to stuff the fact I’m a parent. And this thread is an expansion of that because of the amount of people who thanked that post. I am seriously just curious as to how people think this is valid. If I was a rape victim and the thread was about rape, you would accept my opinion might matter more than yours. War vet. Deep sea diver. Astronaut. Why is then that you believe you know better than a parent about raising kids? And why are you so annoyed by my stating such a simple point?

Why do you think you know more about child-rearing than another person because you are rearing YOUR OWN children? You have no experience of what it is like for other parents. You can only speak FOR YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE. I think that's one reason why your point irritated some people.

K_P

thebigbiffo wrote: »

it’s simply the truth that yes, when it comes to having an opinion about errant children parents may very well have the more insightful viewpoint!!

Absolutely not. You may have a different viewpoint as a parent. It's no more or less insightful or vaild than mine or anyone else's.

If we go by the scenario in that other thread, my viewpoint would be that the children are brats and they are that way because they've been consistently allowed to misbehave by parents who are mercifully (for them) able to tune out their noise and bad behaviour. I don't know what your viewpoint would be exactly, but it seems you'd be more tolerant.

You have your opinion and I have mine. But please don't think that because you have kids of your own, that it makes your opinion of children behaving atrociously any more vaild than mine.

Akrasia

I've got a 2 year old boy and a 3 month old girl.

When our second baby was born, we had almost forgotten how extremely demanding new born babies are.

Not even parents know what it's like to be a parent because our own experiences are always filtered through the lens of our current state of mind.

By the time my kids are starting secondary school, I will have almost totally forgotten what it's like to be a parent of two small babies (I will have the memories of events that happened, but that's not the same as knowing what it's actually like in the hear and now.)

I have no concept of what it must be like to be the parent of twins or triplets in the first few years, I have no concept of what it must be like to be a single parent of young children other than by extrapolation of my own experiences.

Judging other people's experiences is impossible. However, judging their actions is something that we all do all the time. (parents constantly talk amongst themselves about what other parents are doing wrong raising their children)

Being a parent is extremely hard work, it requires patience, tolerance enthusiasm, empathy, foresight and a lot of energy. If even one of these elements is missing then the children will suffer. Some people find themselves in a situation where they can't pick themselves up every day and devote the necessary care and attention to their children. As a society, we should first try to support and help these parents as best we can. but at a certain point, if the parents are not prepared or capable to fulfil their responsibilities we should try and help the children in a more direct manner up to and including foster care in the most extreme cases.

minidazzler

thebigbiffo wrote: »

I didn’t like your post that – basically – told me to stuff the fact I’m a parent. And this thread is an expansion of that because of the amount of people who thanked that post. I am seriously just curious as to how people think this is valid. If I was a rape victim and the thread was about rape, you would accept my opinion might matter more than yours. War vet. Deep sea diver. Astronaut. Why is then that you believe you know better than a parent about raising kids? And why are you so annoyed by my stating such a simple point?

Really, you brought rape victims and war veterens into a thread to explain how you have been there and lived through it, that's bad.

Being a parent doesn't give you some wonderful insight into kids or anything like that, if they run riot in a restaurant calm them the fcuk down, it's that simple, if you fail to calm them down...leave. Have some consideration for other diners, but don't ask them to have consideration for you because it's not their fault you have kids.

mariaf24

I just had my second child a few weeks ago and it has been a walk in the park compared to no.1. Emotionally even more so than physically. I had absolutely no idea what having a baby/child meant when i was expecting number 1. Nothing can prepare you for the shock/change that parenthood will bring. Your whole life completely changes overnight. I remember the exhaustion for the first few months on baby no.1 was something i had never experienced before. Up until then if you're tired you can have a rest, sleep in at weekends etc etc...Not possible when you have kids. With baby no.2 now im no where near as tired but i know it's because i've done it before so it's not a shock to the system and i knew what i was in store for while pregnant.

My friends who have no children have no idea what being a parent is (especially of a baby). We are all mid-late 20's by the way. Just the other day one friend said i must be bored because im at home with my 3 week old baby (Even though i didnt get a chance to brush my hair til mid day today). Another said she knew how i felt as she has a puppy :rolleyes:

Sorry if this comes across as patronising

diamondp

i am a parent of a 16 yr old, just one and i can tell ye never again, to all of you parents out der who have kids under 11 good luck to ye, to all who have kids over 11 like myself im going the pub does anyone wana join me????? you will always love your kids but from the age of about 11 to im hoping it ends at 18 you wont like dem.
oh and if you dont have kids do yourself a fav and stay dat way.

Eve_Dublin

I don't know but I can imagine it's tough. My sister has a very hard time with my niece from the day she was born. She's a GREAT mother...but she spoils her and she does get away with a fair bit of murder. I'm not allowed to give out to her because I'm only the auntie, apparently. and I get in trouble if I do. Still, I have a lot of respect for her as it's tough.

Worked in a Summer camp with 25 Spanish children for a month this Summer and it was the most difficult thing I've ever had to do. Thing is, I got two complaints from two seperate parents complaining their kids didn't get to do something or other....and they just so happened to be the moaniest, spoiltest, rudest little brats I've ever come across in my life so they suffered consequences..and I think it might've been the first time in their lives by how they reacted. You haven't taught your kid manners, she punched another student so I sent her outside so she didn't get to watch the film...and I get the complaints?? Are you not even the slightest bit aware how naughty your child is??

Sorry, I had to vent there.....

Still, parenting in 2011 must be tough...doesn't turn me off it though. I'm just not going to spoil my own kids and I'll be consistant with punishment (easier said than done I know).

Ray Palmer

As a non-parent I particularly dislike the attitude of some parents. They seem to think that they have got to defend their child's actions regardless. They fail as reasonable humans and do their kids no favors.

People who generally think their life choices override others tend to annoy me.

Haven't a clue about parenting but I can tell when a child is being a brat and if they are like that all the time I will blame the parent.