Limerick to Nenagh Cycle Lanes - opinions needed on proposal

michaelm

Limerick and North Tipp County Councils are to join forces to create cycle lanes on both sides of the old N7. Details of the proposals have been posted here and they are seeking submissions from the public on the project. I am intending to make a submission and would welcome ony opinions that people have on this. The estimated cost of the project is €880,000. I am deliberately refraining from giving my own opinions at this stage and am simply inviting responses from others.

Hermy

http://www.lcc.ie/Roads/Limerick+to+Nenagh+Cycle+Route+-+Public+Consultation

Link fixed.

galwaycyclist

In my view this is a highly questionable use of public money and should be referred to some higher authority for review (Public Accounts Committee?).

The replacement of Hard Shoulder by cycle lanes on a rural or semi rural road is likely to result in a marked deterioration of cycling conditions and to have the converse effect of putting more cyclists in the traffic lane - particularly roadies.

See comments on semi rural cycle lanes in this thread.

Cycle lanes - Why not use them? *NOT A RANT THREAD. PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC*

Also in this thread on the Minister's anouncement

Minister for Commuter Transport announces 4 million

ROK ON

Given that the M7 runs almost parallel to the N7 between Limk and Nenagh, I have found that the road in question is practically deserted any time that I have used it. (Im on a prov license so cant drive on M roads).
There is no need for the cycle lanes as other than the very occasional local traffic, cyclists would find that the had a fine road to themselves a lot of the time.
A waste.

HivemindXX

I'd question what benefit this brings. How is converting the hard shoulder to a cycle lane improving things?

This strikes me as typical of a certain type of cycle infrastructure that is put in place. There is an existing road that is cycle friendly with plenty of space for cars to overtake and some paint is put down to make an instant cycle lane. Meanwhile roads that are actually dangerous to cycle on because they are too narrow are left alone because it would be expensive to improve them.

In the case of this specific example all I'd really like to see would be clear sign posting letting cyclists know which way to go when the motorway is coming up. If they absolutely need to spend money a method of getting across the soon-to-be-motorway to join the regional road could be put in.

langdang

I've cycled this route - perfect as it is now that the motorway takes the volume off it. Are they seriously going to spend all that money painting the hardshoulder? Bonkers in my opinion. Better spent improving other (hard shoulder less) routes for cyclists, or developing more greenways.

Cookie_Monster

why not spend 880k fixing local roads in the area, fixing and re-surfacing them benefits all road users and gives cyclists lots more route options whereas the above doesn't really benefit anyone. lanes will not be maintained and will end up unusable and full of crap, just like the edge of HS are now anyway. But at least with HS they are kept mostly clear, cycling infrastructure is never fixed or cleaned.

monument

I don't understand why cycling projects seem to be the only ones which can go to public consultation without any detail -- One really good thing about the former QBN office was that they put out detailed plans for public consultation.

Cycleways cannot be a part of another road -- by marking in a legal cycleway you are excluding all motorists from the whole road. But we're Irish and like making up our own rules as we go along.

There's no detail at all. For example, we don't know how this junction will be done, or the detail of this roundabout, etc.

Cookie_Monster

monument wrote: »

There's no detail at all. For example, we don't know how this junction will be done, or the detail of this roundabout, etc.

that's easy they'll just draw big yield signs in the cycle lane like normal

michaelm

Just wondering if anyone has come across anything like this in other country - a 2.5m cycle lane runnning both sides of what was a main road?

galwaycyclist

michaelm wrote: »

Just wondering if anyone has come across anything like this in other country - a 2.5m cycle lane runnning both sides of what was a main road?

Ok that seems at first like a reasonable question so the immediate response will seem at first unreasonable.

First response: Why should anyone in Ireland care if they have tried this in other countries?

We are the people with first hand knowledge of Irish political structures, local authority funding arrangements, Irish driver attitudes, Irish cyclist attitudes. We are well educated, well informed and we are more than capable of coming up with treatments that suit these specific Irish conditions on our own.

Let us say we can find a treatment such as these cycle lanes in another country - I suspect the Netherlands would be a good start or maybe the UK. That still does not answer the question of whether it would work here under Irish conditions. Does North Tipp County Council (or its successors) have the kind of tax base and maintenance resources that their Dutch equivalents would have? If the Dutch would sweep this road monthly and resurface bi-annually then should we be copying this if we cannot match that effort?

Bear in mind that if this cycle lane treatment is not maintained, then cyclists staying in the traffic lane will be considered "fair game" by a proportion of motorists. If you put this in and you can't look after it you are likely to make cycling conditions worse.

Also even if you are able to look after it, is it still a good use of public money? If this road is not broken why fix it? Are there not other problems for cyclists in Limerick/Tipp?

Roundabouts?,
One-way streets?,
Pinch points and traffic islands?
Lack of speed cameras in towns and villages?
Lack of cycle training in schools?


Could the money not be spent fixing problems instead?

galwaycyclist

As an FYI Cyclist.ie has now written to the Minister for Transport to express the view that this scheme and the associated employment initiative is a highly questionable use of public money.

This press statement was also issued yesterday

Government cycle-lane proposals a questionable use of public money say cyclists

Cyclist.ie, Ireland's National Cycling Lobby Group, has called on the Government to postpone a recently announced “€4 Million Employment Initiative” that would have involved replacing rural road hard-shoulders with cycle lanes.



The cyclists have pointed out that they have already called for a moratorium on the construction of roadside cycle facilities. They say that many urban cycling facilities already constructed in Ireland have been a poor use of public money and are badly maintained - not even subjected to regular road sweeping and left piled with snow during winter!. Cyclist.ie Chairman, Dr Mike McKillen stated “the construction of roadside cycle facilities should cease until a proper framework is in place to ensure their appropriate design, construction, application and subsequent maintenance.” According to the cyclists, the inappropriate use of cycle facilities can actually end up making cycling conditions worse, rather than better.



In the case of rural roads, the issue of maintenance is even more pressing since rural roads are less likely to get any regular attention from councils' road sweeping equipment. In a letter to the Government they state “As a "cycle friendly" treatment, existing hard-shoulders have the advantage over roadside cycle lanes since they are effectively self cleaning and avoid false expectations of safety among the users. It seems wholly inadvisable to replace serviceable hard-shoulders with cycle lanes that are likely to reduce safety and comfort. This is nothing more than a make-work scheme that simply ignores cyclists' real need for safer interaction between motorised vehicles and riders on our public roads".

The cyclists have offered to provide the Government with a range of alternative schemes that would represent a better use of the Smarter Travel money.

Doctor Bob

Which 'Smarter Travel money'?

galwaycyclist

Doctor Bob wrote: »

Which 'Smarter Travel money'?

This from the Ministerial press release

Mr Alan Kelly T.D. Minister for Public and Commuter Transport, today (11 July) announced the release of €4million worth of funding for sustainable travel projects outside the Greater Dublin Area as part of the Jobs Initiative Smarter Travel Funding Package. In the region of 330 additional jobs will be created or as much as 25 person years of employment providing some small stimulus to the local economy.

mitresize5

I cycle that route quiet regularily and cant believe they are talking about spending 800k to fix a problem that doesnt exist

As is its perfect for road cycling, almost empty of traffic and a very good road surface.

800K wasted - this country has a long way to go yet

coolbeans

It's a great road for cycling as it is. The provision of this 'infrastructure' will serve only to waste public funds, make the road more dangerous due to likely non-existent maintenance and entrench the view held by a large minority that cyclists should not use public roads unless such marginalising 'facilities' are present.

I'm far from the first to say this but if you're going to design and sign off on infrastructure, those involved should have a proven track record in the provision of such infrastructure. Imagine a a roads engineer walking into a road engineering company and telling the boss that he never drives and cycles everywhere. Is it likely he'd get the job?

As an aside, I wonder if the imminent tolling of motorways is considered by the powers-that-be likely to increase traffic on the N-roads thereby making them less safe for cyclists in future.

galwaycyclist

Did this scheme ever go ahead? Has anyone here used this road in the meantime?

langdang

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Did this scheme ever go ahead? Has anyone here used this road in the meantime?

Cycled this last week - Glad they didn't plaster miles of it with that rough dirt trap red tarmac.
The hard shoulder is now designated as a cycle lane in many places - white paint bike shape + a solid white line inside the dotted yellow line. Some "rumble paint" bits too to remind drivers that it is a cycle lane.
Some of it is just plain old hard shoulder still. All of it was pretty clean of pointy crap.
Some (all?) junctions have a red tarmacy bit to remind drivers of the priority of way of bikes.

Very quite road these days, a handy 60k run.

Red Neck Hughie

There was plenty cycling that stretch today, including one hardy buck who I saw around Kildare last night on the M7 shoulder. Easy to remember the silvery ground-mat. Enjoy the hols if you're on here.