The Case for Irish Cycleways in Irish Independent

clonmahon

A good article in yesterdays Farming Independent about the value of developing long distance Greenways in Ireland. Based on the cost of the one in Mayo, it can be done for about 120,000 euro a mile on abandoned railways. Is spending 20 or 30 million a year on this for a few years a first rate stimulus package, especially as the skills needed are in the country, as are most of the materials needed and the machinery. If my maths are right the 1 billions wasted building the M3 would have built 8333 miles of Greenway.

ThisRegard

On my last trip home from Cavan I was only too delighted to be part of that wasted €1billion.

Dermot Illogical

Good article. A long distance route would be a magnet for tourists imho.

Don't agree with you about the M3 being wasted money though.

tomasrojo

Perhaps the OP meant that that particular road could have been brought up to the standard of a good dual carriageway, rather than all the way to motorway?

TV3 had a programme a while ago that argued that we wasted a lot of money on overkill motorways during the boom. "Money to Burn" was the programme, I think.

tomasrojo

"Before the path came," he said, "this pub was closed. We had to drive 20 miles if we wanted a pint. Now me and the wife can drop down for a beer, or a bit of food, and we meet very interesting people from all over the world."

This slow death of local amenities is a major problem in Ireland as well. If it can be arrested by re-using the old railway lines to encourage car-free long-distance cycling and walking, great. There definitely is a demand for such activities.

clonmahon

I also use the M3 but the facts are simple guys, the toll operators are being compensated by the taxpayer for the lack of traffic. The 1 billion road was overkill, great for those of us that use it but the money could have been spent on something more useful than a quiet road.

But that’s not my point it is that RT66 is right a long distance cycle route would be a magnet for European cycle tourists and bring in some much needed cash. Not to mention its amenity, health and economic value to us natives. It seems to me a no brainer, to develop the old railways as cycleways.

Captain Havoc

Coronal and myself ended up on a 40km bicycle track in France. It was been used, it was fantastic to able to dart along and have a chat without constantly having to single out. It was wide of enough for two cyclist abreast in both directions.

Cookie_Monster

clonmahon wrote: »

to develop the old railways as cycleways.

ah, but why not develop old railways as railways?

IMO as fossil fuels start to run out railways will suddenly look hugely attractive again.

Undercover Elephant

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

ah, but why not develop old railways as railways?

IMO as fossil fuels start to run out railways will suddenly look hugely attractive again.

That depends. Trains are nearly as energy wasteful as cars, even ignoring the large energy costs in making them and laying tracks in the first place. If they were packed as full as a Japanese bullet train, the efficiency figures would look a lot better, but how likely is that on the Claremorris to Sligo route?

The biggest winner from rising energy costs is the bicycle, so transport planning should be geared to moving a lot of bikes around. Though transport is not really what this project is about anyway.

clonmahon

But transport is also what this project is about, the vast majority of car journeys are short trips. If you build cycleways through major towns (in my area Cavan) you create cycling communter zones along the cycleway, workers and students will use the bike rather than the car for the short journey into town.

I drove into Cavan Town yesterday and got stuck in a 20 minute tailback, on my heavy hybrid bike on a nice cycleway I could have gone 5 miles in that time. I also had to pay 60 cents for one hours parking, even though I only wanted 10 minutes. Those who lived within 6 or 7 miles of the town, and could reach it on a cycleway, the bike would be a far more attractive communting option than the car.

I agree with Undercover Elephant railways are not going to be energy efficient in remote western areas. Railways would cost a vast amount of money to restore and there is unlikely to be a major return in the short term. Our dire current financial situation mitigates against any immediate railway restoration.

The cycleway idea is relatively cheap, it can be done, we have the labour, skills and materials, it will make use of a valuable piece of existing infastructure. And provide our economy with a badly needed economic stimulus. In the future if one million people live in the Sligo Claremorris corridor we can restore the railway, but right now we could get some use out of this very valuable piece of infastructure by making cycleways. Anyway building a cycleway will not destroy the trackbed.

Cookie_Monster

clonmahon wrote: »

I drove into Cavan Town yesterday and got stuck in a 20 minute tailback, on my heavy hybrid bike on a nice cycleway I could have gone 5 miles in that time. I also had to pay 60 cents for one hours parking, even though I only wanted 10 minutes. Those who lived within 6 or 7 miles of the town, and could reach it on a cycleway, the bike would be a far more attractive communting option than the car..

what stops you from cycling on the same road you drove along though

Magic Beans

Would it be used? What would the maintenance costs be like?

clonmahon

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

what stops you from cycling on the same road you drove along though

I live about 12 miles from Cavan Town and I do cycle there regularly but yesterday I was doing the weekly shop so I had a lot of cargo to carry, maybe 30 kilos. If I had a nice gently graded cycleway, I could have, with the addition of a bike trailer, carried this cargo by bike. What I can’t do is haul this much weight up the vicious gradients you find in the Cavan drumlins. This also makes the drumlins poor country for heavily loaded touring cyclists. The old railways went around the hills.

The other thing that makes a lot of rural people afraid to cycle is dangerous overtaking. Most drivers you meet on rural roads are fine, but a minority are regularly guilty of dangerous overtaking, they do not treat cyclists as vehicles but as some kind of wheeled pedestrian. So as they approach a blind bend behind you they do not wait but move out and go round you. If a car appears from around the bend they have a simple choice, go head on with that car or kill the cyclist. I can handle this, and do, but I am a fit, strong, experienced cyclist. Kids, old people etc can’t. Cycleways allow everyone to cycle.

clonmahon

Magic Beans wrote: »

Would it be used? What would the maintenance costs be like?

The Mayo experience suggests they would be used not just by touring cyclists and walkers, but by local leisure and commuter cyclists and walkers. According to the Irish Times last Saturday they are getting up to 300 touring cyclists and walkers a day on the track, along with all the locals. Remember this is only a short track, create a long distance track and it will be much more attractive to more touring cyclists.

Maintenance costs are a very pertinent question, I don’t know but given that the heaviest thing on them will be a fully loaded touring bike, total weight maybe 120kgs, the costs should be managable. Possibly maintenance is a task that could be done by those who are currently unemployed under some sort of community employment scheme.

TinyExplosions

clonmahon wrote: »

The Mayo experience suggests they would be used not just by touring cyclists and walkers, but by local leisure and commuter cyclists and walkers. According to the Irish Times last Saturday they are getting up to 300 touring cyclists and walkers a day on the track, along with all the locals. Remember this is only a short track, create a long distance track and it will be much more attractive to more touring cyclists.

So they've spent a load of money on essentially another Pheonix Park cycle lane... can't wait for the number of threads on here complaining about iPodestrians etc

damoz

leaving aside the pedestrian/cyclist issue i would be all in favour of this.

Slightly OT - Id also be in favour of maintaining a few known routes in this country with signage etc as designated cycling routes. Just maintain the surface a little better than currently and put up a few cyclist signs/warnigns/advice how much room to leave for overtaking etc (like in France for example). Im sure this would also attract more cycling based tourism..

cantalach

Regarding the value of reopening these old railway lines instead of converting them to cycling/walking trails, I took the train yesterday along the recently reopened Midleton branch from the Cork-Cobh line. The train leaving Midleton at 5:45PM was the first service after the end of normal office hours - peak hour - but it had only 7 passengers on board. I'm pretty sure nobody got on or off at Carrigtwohill and Glounthane stations, and then we picked up 7-8 more at Little Island. In total, we're talking about 15-16 passengers disembarking at Cork station, i.e. enough to fit in a minibus. I'd love to see somebody justify the economics of reopening that line as a full heavy rail service.

Undercover Elephant

Magic Beans wrote: »

What would the maintenance costs be like?

Damage to road surfaces is roughly proportional to the fourth power of weight (per axle). Trucks do the most damage to surfaces, cars not very much, and bikes / people almost none.

You'd probably have to cut back the foliage occasionally.

cantalach

damoz wrote: »

Slightly OT - Id also be in favour of maintaining a few known routes in this country with signage etc as designated cycling routes. Just maintain the surface a little better than currently and put up a few cyclist signs/warnigns/advice how much room to leave for overtaking etc (like in France for example).

Yes, they have done this in a few places in Mallorca too. The designated cycling routes have distinctive wooden direction signs and - crucially - a 40km/h speed limit to deter motorised traffic. Good example here.

DaveR1

Magic Beans wrote: »

Would it be used? What would the maintenance costs be like?

Last year in Limerick the M7, to birdhill was experiencing difficulties at one particular 500m section.

This meant for 12 months there was a perfect 12km of motorway built. Even though to get onto it I had to dismount my bike and climb over a few boulders it was the best place to cycle. Any time I went out I would meet quite a few cyclists and local walkers who used it to get away from traffic filled roads.

This was a hard to access, unadvertised cycle/walkway and was a well used ammeniety. I think this proves these lanes would be well used around the country.

clonmahon

TinyExplosions wrote: »

So they've spent a load of money on essentially another Pheonix Park cycle lane... can't wait for the number of threads on here complaining about iPodestrians etc

This maybe a city thing to drown out the sound of traffic, I’ve never noticed a lot of walkers in the countryside using ipods, there are more pleasant thing to listen to like bird song, insect sounds, wind blowing in the trees and some times if you are really, really lucky silence and stillness. The countryside has its own sounds and listening to them is part of the pleasure of being there. Different when cars are whizzing by.

what_traffic

FYI. This is off the current thread topic; but shows greenway concept is gaining momentum.
In todays Connacht Tribune:

http://www.galwaynews.ie/20820-old-clifden-rail-line-be-turned-%E2%82%AC6m-cycle-track
Old Clifden rail line to be turned into €6m cycle track

August 4, 2011 - 7:00am
by Declan Tierney

clonmahon

what_traffic wrote: »

FYI. This is off the current thread topic; but shows greenway concept is gaining momentum.
In todays Connacht Tribune:

http://www.galwaynews.ie/20820-old-clifden-rail-line-be-turned-%E2%82%AC6m-cycle-track
Old Clifden rail line to be turned into €6m cycle track

August 4, 2011 - 7:00am
by Declan Tierney

This is great news.