Job worth taking?? Advice please.

foodie86

Any advice/opinions on this would be really appreciated.

I have been offered 12 hours of my own in the same school I was in last year. These hours will only be for the year again and may not be guaranteed for aug 2012. A good opportunity I know but these 12 hours hav been reduced from the amount I had last year and for all I know could be reduced again next yr.

My question is should I hang onto this 12 or would I be better off applying for 22 hr maternity leave jobs? I know I won't get paid for hols but at least I would be busy and have more of an income. On the other hand are 12 of my own hours better?

Any help from people in the know about these sort of issues would really be of benefit. Thanks guys.

gaeilgebeo

I think you should go for the 12 hours of your own in the school you are in.
There is a good chance your hours will be increased with subbing during the year.
You are on the ladder already for CID if you keep getting hours in your own school.

Taking the maternity is risking a possible job/CID in your own school as when that maternity leave is over, you are at the bottom of the ladder again!

Newteacher

What if the 22 hours was in a school you really wanted to work in ultimately? Wouldn't it be better to take a chance in order to "get your foot in the door"???

An Bradán Feasa

Take the 12 hours, but keep applying for other jobs. In this case, ya gotta look out for Number One! Do what's best for you. If you get another job with better hours, I have no doubt the principal will understand.

Lord TSC

As someone who has been trying for a year now to "get a foot in the door", I'll switch with you if you want. You can take my search for a job and I'll take your garunteed 12 hours (+sub work).

gaeilgebeo

Newteacher wrote: »

What if the 22 hours was in a school you really wanted to work in ultimately? Wouldn't it be better to take a chance in order to "get your foot in the door"???

A maternity leave is not a "foot in the door".
It is exactly what is says on the tin.
When the maternity leave contract is up, it's up. Especially now with current non-permanent staff in schools are fighting for any extra hours there are.

Newteacher

That is so depressing Gaeilgebeo! It sure knocks the wind out of my sails. I spoke with a few (grant it, older) teachers who said that they got into their school on a maternity leave, did a good job and a job was made for them the following year.

I guess that's just the story of a bygone age?

foodie86

@ shadowclan - I have done mat leaves for a few years and in my opinion they do not lead to anything more stable in a school. But I suppose sometimes you could be in the right place at the right time.

@gaeilgebeo - you hav def made me feel a little better about having the 12 hours! I know it is a help towards a CID but do I not have to have over 18 of my own hours for this to apply? I also thought it now takes up to 5 yrs before you can get a CID, is this right?

Also I know I should be thankful of having any hours at all but it's just that I love being busy, I hate waiting around. Also I have bills to pay, 12 hrs isn't alot to live off of and as the school is small I doubt I'll get many subbing hours. Especially with the dip students. And it's not a subject where people would need grinds in. This is prob my main worry, the money aspect.

Thanks everyone so much for the replies though, they have been very insightful :-)

gaeilgebeo

Newteacher wrote: »

That is so depressing Gaeilgebeo! It sure knocks the wind out of my sails. I spoke with a few (grant it, older) teachers who said that they got into their school on a maternity leave, did a good job and a job was made for them the following year.

I guess that's just the story of a bygone age?

Sorry to sound harsh but to think a job can be "made" for you is very naive.
I did 5 or 6 maternity leaves in my early career, when times were "good" and jobs were plentiful. I did a good job and got excellent references, but there was never a job made for me afterwards.
There are non-permanent teachers in every school who have had their hours cut. Those teachers will be entitled to any hours going in a school.
A maternity leave is a fixed purpose contract, when it is up, it's up.
The school/principal owes you nothing!

gaeilgebeo

foodie86 wrote: »

@ shadowclan - I have done mat leaves for a few years and in my opinion they do not lead to anything more stable in a school. But I suppose sometimes you could be in the right place at the right time.

@gaeilgebeo - you hav def made me feel a little better about having the 12 hours! I know it is a help towards a CID but do I not have to have over 18 of my own hours for this to apply? I also thought it now takes up to 5 yrs before you can get a CID, is this right?

Also I know I should be thankful of having any hours at all but it's just that I love being busy, I hate waiting around. Also I have bills to pay, 12 hrs isn't alot to live off of and as the school is small I doubt I'll get many subbing hours. Especially with the dip students. And it's not a subject where people would need grinds in. This is prob my main worry, the money aspect.

Thanks everyone so much for the replies though, they have been very insightful :-)

You can be made CID with any number of hours after 4 years.
You need 18 hours CID to be paid the full 22 hour salary.
You have no idea who is going to retire in the school, relocate, job-share etc... You may very well pick up more hours next year. You may get resource/TEFL hours.
There are 2 people in my school who did not have 22 hour contracts all along but got them in their final year and have their 22 hour CIDs.
You are in a school on your own hours, you have your own contract, you have some standing in the school. You are not seen as a "sub" by the principal or the students.
Don't throw it away for a maternity leave. To get your own hours in a school today is like winning the lottery.

Newteacher

What about a 22 hour maternity leave versus an RPT jobshare of 11 hours that will def not continue the following year Gaeilgebeo? Which would you go for?
(Sorry to butt in with these annoying questions!!::)))

gaeilgebeo

Newteacher wrote: »

What about a 22 hour maternity leave versus an RPT jobshare of 11 hours that will def not continue the following year Gaeilgebeo? Which would you go for?
(Sorry to butt in with these annoying questions!!::)))

The job-share hours are not yours, same as a maternity leave.
Back when jobs were plentiful, you could have taken the job-share in the hope that something may crop up in the school, but as I've pointed out above, this is very unlikely.
If the 11 hours are definitely not going to continue the following year, go for the maternity.

Newteacher

Thanks Gaeilgebeo! )

rainbowtrout

foodie86 wrote: »

@ shadowclan - I have done mat leaves for a few years and in my opinion they do not lead to anything more stable in a school. But I suppose sometimes you could be in the right place at the right time.

@gaeilgebeo - you hav def made me feel a little better about having the 12 hours! I know it is a help towards a CID but do I not have to have over 18 of my own hours for this to apply? I also thought it now takes up to 5 yrs before you can get a CID, is this right?

Also I know I should be thankful of having any hours at all but it's just that I love being busy, I hate waiting around. Also I have bills to pay, 12 hrs isn't alot to live off of and as the school is small I doubt I'll get many subbing hours. Especially with the dip students. And it's not a subject where people would need grinds in. This is prob my main worry, the money aspect.

Thanks everyone so much for the replies though, they have been very insightful :-)

I'd agree with everything gaeilgebeo has posted on here, and I'd also add that over the course of the year 12 hours per week for a whole year will work out roughly the same as 22 hours maternity leave for 6 months.

There's also no reason that the principal wouldn't give you subbing hours ahead of the dip students. You can probably sign up for S&S too, every little bit counts. You might find that you get a few hours of resource added on to your timetable when you go back. Those hours are often only allocated in September.

As for what NewTeacher was saying about maternity leaves letting you get a foot in the door, if it happened before it's not happening now. You could be lucky and get maternity leave, make a good impression and then a teacher of your subject leave the school at the end of the year through retirement, changing job and you might be in a position to get in there, but there's no creating positions anymore. Any positions created in the past were possibly from principals who had a few hours to play around with and decided to keep a person on because they had proved themselves. But it wouldn't be the norm to expect to be kept on after a maternity leave.

Actually one of the teachers in my school had her maternity leave split either side of the summer holidays last year and they advertised for March-May for her position and a teacher was hired. We thought she was getting on OK, but were surprised to see the remainder of the maternity leave advertised again during the summer for September. They didn't take back the first teacher.

implausible

As a matter of interest OP, is either the maternity leave or the 12 hours in a VEC school?

foodie86

Thanks everyone for the input. It's encouraging to see Im making a decision that might help to further my career.

Just one final Q to add into the mix (",)... What if any, are the possibilities of me getting extra hours if a teacher in my subject area retires before the end of the school year. Would the position have to be advertised and a teacher take over until the end of the year and then the post be advertised fully in sept? Is there any possibility I could get the extra hours?

There might be a possibility of this happening, I'd rather not count my chickens but I'd like to know others opinions on this or if anyone knows of similar situations.

Thanks, foodie.

gaeilgebeo

foodie86 wrote: »

Thanks everyone for the input. It's encouraging to see Im making a decision that might help to further my career.

Just one final Q to add into the mix (",)... What if any, are the possibilities of me getting extra hours if a teacher in my subject area retires before the end of the school year. Would the position have to be advertised and a teacher take over until the end of the year and then the post be advertised fully in sept? Is there any possibility I could get the extra hours?

There might be a possibility of this happening, I'd rather not count my chickens but I'd like to know others opinions on this or if anyone knows of similar situations.

Thanks, foodie.

With regard to retirements, we have had up on 7 teachers retire in the last 2/3 years. Only 2 were replaced. With cuts/redeployment etc... a lot of the hours were absorbed by the current staff.
I wouldn't be holding out for a retirement. A lot of teachers retiring are post holders on 18 hours and are not replaced.

Mendas

Anyone with advice? I've been teaching part time with vec for 10 years. Sept to July for the last 4/5 years. In sept i start with around 6 to 10 hours and build up to full hours for a good number of weeks. I dont have a degree and life it too hectic between teaching, coordination and family to start one at the moment. I teach in resource centres but mostly at a college of further education. I haven't applied for a contract as I'm trying to keep under the radar as an unqualified teacher. Almost deciding to throw in the towel although i love teaching. Not sure if its wiser to keep going as I am for now (I know things will change in 2013) or bite the bullet and go and talk to head office? Any advice would be really appreciated. Despondent!

Best of luck to you foodie86:)

gaeilgebeo

Mendas wrote: »

Anyone with advice? I've been teaching part time with vec for 10 years. Sept to July for the last 4/5 years. In sept i start with around 6 to 10 hours and build up to full hours for a good number of weeks. I dont have a degree and life it too hectic between teaching, coordination and family to start one at the moment. I teach in resource centres but mostly at a college of further education. I haven't applied for a contract as I'm trying to keep under the radar as an unqualified teacher. Almost deciding to throw in the towel although i love teaching. Not sure if its wiser to keep going as I am for now (I know things will change in 2013) or bite the bullet and go and talk to head office? Any advice would be really appreciated. Despondent!

Best of luck to you foodie86:)

What exactly is your question? To leave your job or not?

implausible

Mendas wrote: »

Anyone with advice? I've been teaching part time with vec for 10 years. Sept to July for the last 4/5 years. In sept i start with around 6 to 10 hours and build up to full hours for a good number of weeks. I dont have a degree and life it too hectic between teaching, coordination and family to start one at the moment. I teach in resource centres but mostly at a college of further education. I haven't applied for a contract as I'm trying to keep under the radar as an unqualified teacher. Almost deciding to throw in the towel although i love teaching. Not sure if its wiser to keep going as I am for now (I know things will change in 2013) or bite the bullet and go and talk to head office? Any advice would be really appreciated. Despondent!

If you have been teaching part-time with the VEC for ten years, why on earth do you not have a CIDu? There was an amnesty of sorts there a few years back for those who were in the system. Are you in the TUI? My advice would be to go an speak to them, but to be honest, it may be too late now.

foodie86

@ mendas - I agree with gaeilgebeo what exactly is the problem? Also how is it possible that you are not qualified to teach but still can/are allowed?

@ gaeilgebeo - indeed it's a total gamble on my part to think about teachers retiring but the teacher is considering it. Also, said teacher is the only other teacher of my subject in the school, hence adding to my my predicament/confusion i.e. Should I still be looking out for more hours in other schools even if the advertised post is for one year.
But of course I forgot all about redeployment and the effect that could have ...

Mendas

Thanks for reply.

I wasn't aware of this amnesty. The Teaching Council and the TUI have rejected me because of lack of degree (Diplomas and good background in my subject) I don't want to give up my job but I dont see any way forward with the new rules etc. I've kept quiet to hold onto the hours. Maybe it's time to go and talk or do I keep going and get another two years of work?

I'm teaching part-time level 3 and 4. my contracts are Fixed Term/Puporse contracts as part-time tutor


Mendas

rainbowtrout

foodie86 wrote: »

Thanks everyone for the input. It's encouraging to see Im making a decision that might help to further my career.

Just one final Q to add into the mix (",)... What if any, are the possibilities of me getting extra hours if a teacher in my subject area retires before the end of the school year. Would the position have to be advertised and a teacher take over until the end of the year and then the post be advertised fully in sept? Is there any possibility I could get the extra hours?

There might be a possibility of this happening, I'd rather not count my chickens but I'd like to know others opinions on this or if anyone knows of similar situations.

Thanks, foodie.

There are a whole load of permutations there. Last year there was an embargo on hiring so jobs could only be advertised on a temporary basis, so if a teacher retired during the school year the job could only be advertised as subbing hours, fixed purpose contract until June etc etc. It's not clear if that's the case again this year.

If those hours become available during the school year there would be no reason not to give them to you - if you are qualified in that subject, but also if they fit with your timetable, e.g. you teach maths to second years which is streamed and the classes are all on at the same time, if one of the other second year teachers retired you would not be in a position to teach their class. Also if they retire and you are given the hours, while you would be paid for them, they wouldn't be part of your contract if you get them after Nov 1st. But that's not to say you wouldn't get them again the following year.

All things considered I would still take the 12 hour contract and hope for extra hours during the school year. A maternity leave from Sept-Feb, will leave you looking for work in February which will only be more maternity leave or subbing work until the end of the school year.

rainbowtrout

Mendas wrote: »

Thanks for reply.

I wasn't aware of this amnesty. The Teaching Council and the TUI have rejected me because of lack of degree (Diplomas and good background in my subject) I don't want to give up my job but I dont see any way forward with the new rules etc. I've kept quiet to hold onto the hours. Maybe it's time to go and talk or do I keep going and get another two years of work?

I'm teaching part-time level 3 and 4. my contracts are Fixed Term/Puporse contracts as part-time tutor


Mendas

I think you are not the only one in this situation. I know a guy who is a co-ordinator of a centre who is in the same situation. Hasn't got a degree (but is doing one at the moment). Same contract situation as yourself. Now I'm not sure why the VEC have left him in that position for more than 10 years and of course if his position was made permanent it would have to be advertised and he wouldn't get it as he is not qualified.

Personally I think your only get out clause at the moment is to try and start a degree to perhaps safeguard yourself for the future. If you have diplomas in your subject, is there some add on modules you can do to bring yourself up to degree level?

Mendas

Thanks Raiinbowtrout! for the replly!

Yes I think i'm not the only one in this situation. I work huge coordination hours to try and hang onto my other hours. At the moment going 24/7 so the answer maybe to cut back teaching hours and start a degree by night.

Much appreciated

the_syco

Mendas wrote: »

lack of degree (Diplomas and good background in my subject)

What are the Dips in?

Mendas

the_syco wrote: »

What are the Dips in?

Good question and just checked. From 1998 Level 2 Cert IT and l999 Level 3 Cert Network and Software Systems. Now called levels 5 and 6, as well as JEB Teaching diploma and some certificates. Also Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer (MCSE) which doesn't seem to count for anything?

rainbowtrout

Mendas wrote: »

Good question and just checked. From 1998 Level 2 Cert IT and l999 Level 3 Cert Network and Software Systems. Now called levels 5 and 6, as well as JEB Teaching diploma and some certificates. Also Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer (MCSE) which doesn't seem to count for anything?

That's the old NCVA qualifications I assume?

Higher Certificate at third level is now Level 6, to get an Ordinary Level Degree you would have at least to do some modules to bring you up to Level 7.

Mendas

rainbowtrout wrote: »

That's the old NCVA qualifications I assume?

Higher Certificate at third level is now Level 6, to get an Ordinary Level Degree you would have at least to do some modules to bring you up to Level 7.

Yes, that the old VCVA. I was looking at CR_KCOME_7 at CIT but not sure how many modules I would have to do to get degree but that seem like the only available route other than OU which I've ruled out at this stage.