Was it date rape?

LegacyUser

About two years ago I was at a wedding abroad and met this guy that seemed obviously interested in me. I found him a bit creepy and made it clear that I wasn't interested in him but foolishly ended up drinking with him late on the last night, I didn't go back to my room because two friends were in there arguing. We were the last ones in the bar and the last thing I remember was telling him I didn't fancy him and I was only still there to give my friends some space. I very very vaguely remember walking (stumbling / leaning) outside somewhere in the street and then waking up to my phone ringing and my friend wondering where I was. I was in his hotel room. I left immediately, noticed an empty condom packet on the floor on my way out. My first thought was that I had willingly gone back to his room and I must have been really pissed that I didn't remember but later that day when I couldn't piece anything together I started wondering if maybe he had slipped something in my drink. I got the morning after pill to be on the safe side and got
checked for stds (all clear!). Ive always wondered if he spiked me although didn't let it bother me too much and it's not something I've dwelled on but upon reading a post in the relationships forum (and this had crossed my mind a few times before) that maybe I should have reported it in case he did do this and was doing it to other girls too. I dont feel I've been hurt or damaged by the whole experience but it could really hurt someone else.

I never reported it because I always had this element of doubt. Having said that I was a bit pissed but I wasn't completely ****faced. When I do get ****faced I fall alsleep, I don't have complete blackouts. There was definitely sex between us, without sounding crude about it I was really sore, not in a raw sense but ina bruised way. I have had my share of drunken nights but I've never forgotten having had sex. Ive never been sore like that after sex either and i was still wearing my dress (no underwear) when i woke up which isnt something i do, id always get my kit off. Bizarrely the guy contacted me a few weeks later through work which further made me doubt it as that would be an insane thing to do surely?

I haven't seen him since but I know his name and hes a friend of the bride and grooms.


I told one of my friends what had happened and she was concerned because at the wedding she'd overheard some other girls talking, they were worried about the fact that one of their friends hadnt made it back to her room the previous night and had stayed with this guy which they felt was weird and out of character. I did think about trying to talk to this girl but I dont know who she is or even if the story is true and I can't find out who she is without telling the story to people that might be friends with the guy.

I know I've left it a long time now but I wonder if I should report this or not? I'm pretty sure this guy spiked me and I would hate to think he's doing it to other girls but theres still a small element of doubt wondering if I was just really drunk and he could be completely innocent.

ElleEm

You should go to the Gardai and tell them the above.
It sounds as if it is out of character for you, and it doesn't sound like you were in a fit state to consent either.
The fact that there is a similar story about him floating around makes it even more likely that he may have done this before.

kjl

If you were spiked with rohypnol you would most likely be asleep for 18 - 26 hours. Unless you are sure about this I wouldn't go around throwing accusations like this as this is the kind of thing that stays with people for life.

Just because you don't usually black out does not mean that this time you didn't. I am not saying you are wrong, but your evidence is very circumstantial at best.

How about next time you are in a situation like this you avoid drinking till late hours with the guy you find creepy.

Morag

There is no evidence and given that you can't remember pretty much of anything then really there is no witness, so I don't think the garda would be able to do anything.

rohypnol has different effects on people not everyone falls alseep, but it does impare memory.

I would suggest that you find a professional to talk to about this, who can help you work through what you are feeling and maybe help you remember. The rape crises network can put you in touch with such a person who can help you, there are centres all over ireland.

http://www.rcni.ie/rape-crisis-centres.aspx

ElleEm

kjl wrote: »

If you were spiked with rohypnol you would most likely be asleep for 18 - 26 hours. Unless you are sure about this I wouldn't go around throwing accusations like this as this is the kind of thing that stays with people for life.

Just because you don't usually black out does not mean that this time you didn't. I am not saying you are wrong, but your evidence is very circumstantial at best.

How about next time you are in a situation like this you avoid drinking till late hours with the guy you find creepy.

Nowhere in that girl's post did she mention Rohypnol. There are MANY things people can be "spiked" with, alcohol included. The girl is concerned about other girl's wellbeings too, so she has a duty to report it JUST IN CASE.

ted1

what was the weather like? it could have been a mixture of sun stroke and to much alcohol. bear in mind there have differnt strength drinks abroad

ended up drinking with him late on the last night, I didn't go back to my room because two friends were in there arguing

There are MANY things people can be "spiked" with, alcohol included. The girl is concerned about other girl's wellbeings too, so she has a duty to report it JUST IN CASE.

sounds like they were both up drinking by choice. There very slanderish acquisations to make "JUST IN CASE" she could ruin some ones life and get them put on the sex offenders list.

Maple

For once it would be just delightful if a possible victim of rape could ask for help without having to undergo interrogations from alleged helpful posters.

Ted1, asking the OP about the weather is not only highly insulting but attitudes like yours only add to the reticence felt by victims of rape to come forward and report their crime.

Going forward, please show some courtesy and compassion towards the OP.

Maple

LegacyUser

I didn't have sunstroke. I am well aware that these are strong accusations and that is why I have not reported it because I have always had doubts because I don't remember anything. That unfortunately is the nature of these date rape drugs and why people get away with usig them.

kjl, you are incorrect about the sleeping affects of rohypnol lasting 18-26 hours. Affects are known to last for several (up to eight) hours. Also, thanks for your advise that "next time" I avoid drinking late with creepy guys. Do you not think I regret being there with him? Your comments are hurtful and unhelpful. Yes, I should have left. In hindsight I should have kicked my friends out of the room and told them to have their domestic somewhere else but I didn't. Yes, I didn't like this guy but he is also a good friend of the bride and who I know well so I had no reason to suspect he might be a potential predator.

I realize the seriousness of reporting this, that is why I am asking advise. I was drinking, I was merry but I have been much drunker in my day and not blacked out. To be fair, I don't think alcohol alone could get me so ****ed up that I wasn't aware of someone having sex with me but there is always the chance that this guy was innocent and I appeared conscious to him I guess and I certainly wouldn't want to do something that could get an innocent person I trouble.

I can only explain this as best I can. I know myself, I know my alcohol limits and I know my body and I feel about 90% sure this guy had sex with me while
I was unconscious. The small element of doubt is what holds me back. I don't want to accuse someone who might be innocent but I also worry that he's could be doing this to others.

I should have reported it that day so that I could have had a blood test and a medical.

ted1

Maple I was just saying that the weather I.e the sun may have contributed to alcohol having a different effect on her than it usually has.

tallaghtmick

Maple wrote: »

For once it would be just delightful if a possible victim of rape could ask for help without having to undergo interrogations from alleged helpful posters.

Ted1, asking the OP about the weather is not only highly insulting but attitudes like yours only add to the reticence felt by victims of rape to come forward and report their crime.

Going forward, please show some courtesy and compassion towards the OP.

Maple

Maple as a woman you can say all that,I dont doubt the Op and id gladly advise her to seek even a consult with the garda but many women have accused men of rape and turn out it wasnt.Ted1 is only trying to get the facts of the incident,Im not trying to be a bastard here but could you maybe turn off your female tinted glasses here and moderate a bit fairer to both genders........ill prob be banned for this though.

ElleEm

ted1 wrote: »

what was the weather like? it could have been a mixture of sun stroke and to much alcohol. bear in mind there have differnt strength drinks abroad






sounds like they were both up drinking by choice. There very slanderish acquisations to make "JUST IN CASE" she could ruin some ones life and get them put on the sex offenders list.

They would be only out on the register if they were found guilty of something.
As another poster said, there is little evidence and probably no witnesses so the likelyhood of it coming to anything is slim due to the time that has passed.

As I said to the OP

ElleEm wrote: »

You should go to the Gardai and tell them the above.

This way, the Gardai can decide what to make of it. Who knows, he may have a record of this. He also may not, but the OP is trying to protect other women. Hearing a similar story about this man and another woman is enough to ring alarm bells.

ted1

As I said to the OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElleEm
You should go to the Gardai and tell them the above.

This way, the Gardai can decide what to make of it. Who knows, he may have a record of this. He also may not, but the OP is trying to protect other women. Hearing a similar story about this man and another woman is enough to ring alarm bells.

bear in mind the OP did state it was abroad, so the Gardai do not have any Jurisdiction..

tallaghtmick

ted1 wrote: »

bear in mind the OP did state it was abroad, so the Gardai do not have any Jurisdiction..

True but they can set it up with another police agency.

Ickle Magoo

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Many thanks.

ElleEm

ted1 wrote: »

bear in mind the OP did state it was abroad, so the Gardai do not have any Jurisdiction..

Yeah, but at least they could give her advice on whether to pursue it or not.
Whether it comes to anything or not, I just think that if her gut tells her that he may have done this before/ since, she has a duty to speak to the Gardai and see what they say.

Neyite

OP,
I would suggest firstly talking to a rape crisis centre near you. Not only will you get specific counselling on how your feelings are regarding your experience, they can also give you very good advice on gathering your recollections should you decide to report it.

I think you should make a statement to gardai anyway. Should they decide that there is no actual evidence to proceed with it further, then so be it. But if you were drugged and raped by this man as your gut is telling you, then its highly unlikely that it was a once off. If he got away with it once, then its a tried and tested method for him, meaning other women are at risk.

One statement regarding an incident from several years ago may not be enough, but if another woman has a similar story, involving the same man, it might eventually build a case. Your story might help another woman get justice.

LegacyUser

To make an allegation of rape is a very serious decision. From the OP's account, it is only a possibility and far from clear.

If it was a case that the OP was "suffering" from a self-induced overindulgence, then it would be a great injustice to make the allegation.

One should be very clear before making such an allegation, there's too much at stake.

lace

Hi OP!

The Gardai may not be able to do much but at least by reporting it you're doing your bit and leaving it up to them to do the rest. If he ever did this to another girl at least her report would be backed up by the fact that his name has been mentioned to the police before. Or for all you know the Gardai may have already had complaints against him but been unable to prove them.

I've taken care of many a passed out friend in my time but I've never had one of them wake up completely blank. I know a lot of people think that if a girl is drinking a lot she's going to be promiscuous but the fact is that nobody deserves to be raped - have someone have sex with them without their consent. If you think that there's no way you could have given consent and completely blanked it all out then you have every right to report a suspected rape. I'd suggest calling the rape crisis centre. They may be able to give you mor information on talking to someone or reporting the matter.

Taltos

OP

OK - you may have been spiked.
But let me ask you this - were you of sound mind to consent to sex?

Suggest that you seek some professional advice - legal/counselling.

LegacyUser

Thank you all for your advice. I've made an appointment with the rape crisis centre so I will ask their advice in relation to the guards etc.

As per some suggestions I think if there have been previous allegations against this guy I could help someone else's case.

I will tred very carefully, I do not want a case taken against this guy unless others have already reported him. I will make this clear to the rcc so they can advise me how to proceed.

Mods, please leave this thread open for the moment, I am seeing the rcc next week and I can report on how things go in case the information is useful to others.

Kalimah

To be honest with you I don't know how there could be any evidence in this case after two years that the Gardai could pursue unless as someone else says ,this guy has previous form. I will say one thing however re the possible spiking of drinks and it's this. I did hear a few years ago that the Rotunda Sexual Assault Unit found not one single instance of a victim being unknowingly drugged. They put the loss of memory down to the amount of drink taken. I don't mean that as a judgment or criticism of you by the way.
Good to see that you are taking matters into your own hands and trying to get to the bottom of the whole episode.

Overheal

Check with rape crisis but I'm pretty sure you can file a complaint with the Gardai without pressing a charge, and so no case/trial would be taken against him. But check.

Distorted

I can't believe you didn't report OP. Although I don't mean this as a criticism of you because you sound as though you hardly knew what was going on when you woke up. But you should report it, because your suspicions are valid and you do believe you had sex when you didn't want to. It is the Guard's duty to investigate, so while it may be hard now to find evidence, they can interview and possibly link anything else. And if that guy did do it, the fact that someone's reported it and he's been investigated might be enough to deter him in future.

I once had my drink spiked I think -fortunately when the fresh air hit me, I puked most of it up and didn't sleep that much afterwards. My unknown "helper" also disappeared when I puked, thankfully. It also depends on how much you ingest, and what drug has been used.

By the way, I found the comment above that women only get their drinks spiked when they have had too much to drink quite bizarre. That night I had had only one glass of wine, then a glass of diet coke, and had drunk a small amount of another glass of wine and had put it down on a table and then had another small drink from it a few times.

Neyite

Overheal wrote: »

Check with rape crisis but I'm pretty sure you can file a complaint with the Gardai without pressing a charge, and so no case/trial would be taken against him. But check.

I think you are correct. You can make a statement that doesnt have to have any action taken, just the gardai documenting an incident and filing it. I did this some years ago.

I was advised to do this by a womens refuge some years ago when I was splitting with a volatile ex. On its own, it means nothing. However, if he was to threaten another girlfriend or hurt her, you could see that the gardai would take a closer look as it proves previous form.

BnB

OP - I think it sounds very dodgy. Would there be any possibility of finding out who the other girls that your friends overheard were. Possibly so you might get in touch with them to find out more about their story.

Either way, I think you are taking the right first step in talking to the RCC. Best of luck and take care.

Bubblegums

Report report report, let the legal eagles figure out if a crime was committed, probably can't be got on this one, but it would show he has form if he ever got accused of similar in the future ... which he will - they tend to repeat the crime if they don't get caught for it first few times out...

LegacyUser

I met with the rcc today. They offered me counselling which I have declined and they have organized a meeting for me with a solicitor who will advise me on the reporting side of things. They were very nice and helpful. The woman I met with said that my story was typical of a date rape attack.

I seriously regret not going to the guards the day it happened. They would have sent me to the hospital where blood tests and a medical exam would have made things clearer. I was just so confused and ashamed at the time that I did nothing. I would urge anyone else in a similar position to act immediately.

It is unlikely that I have a case against this guy as there is no proof but I would like there to be a complaint against him recorded in case there are similar complaints made by others.

Lawliet

Some very worrying examples of rape culture in this thread. There doesn't need to be drink spiking involved for it to be classified as date rape, alcohol itself is the most commonly used date rape drug.
If someone is so intoxicated that they black out/ aren't aware of their surroundings, taking advantage of them while they are in this state is rape. By the sounds of it the OP made it very clear that she wasn't interesting in having sex with this guy, so he waited until she was vulnerable and in too much of a state to protest and went and had sex with her anyway. That is rape.

It doesn't matter that the OP was drinking by choice. Drinking alcohol does not automatically mean you consent to sex. Implying otherwise is just classic victim blaming behaviour.

LegacyUser

Guest_111 wrote: »

I met with the rcc today. They offered me counselling which I have declined and they have organized a meeting for me with a solicitor who will advise me on the reporting side of things. They were very nice and helpful. The woman I met with said that my story was typical of a date rape attack.

I seriously regret not going to the guards the day it happened. They would have sent me to the hospital where blood tests and a medical exam would have made things clearer. I was just so confused and ashamed at the time that I did nothing. I would urge anyone else in a similar position to act immediately.

It is unlikely that I have a case against this guy as there is no proof but I would like there to be a complaint against him recorded in case there are similar complaints made by others.

Well done on the first step,
perhaps when the time is right for you, you may want counselling (just saying dont rule that out completely -and remember its not a reflection on you)

For what its worth I'm male, I know what allegations can do, but I also know the impact of rape, I think you are doing the right thing OP, exploring the possibility of making a case and trying to work through the impact and effect of that night.

For those telling her not to make any allegations, picture your sister / your gf in that position and then reflect on your views.
Far better to make an allegation and have it disproved then have a crime go unpunished and dangerous individual preying on women at loose.

OP I wish you luck on your journey and well done on your courage.

Maple

OP, I am locking this thread as people are still responding to your issue and you have already set the wheels in motion.

I wish you the best very of luck

Maple