Nonbelievers that you like.

Turtwig

Ok, this is a pretty unique thread. Are there any non Christians out there who you happen to like. By like, I mean will read, watch, or listen to their stuff for purposes other than being up to date with opponent material. If I was to guess I'd guess Paul Davies and Brian Greene. If you haven't heard of either, then I suggest you google their writings. I realise this isn't a wholly black or white question either. For instance many Christians I know love Dawkins' science books (they are truly excellent) but hate the way he throws in completely unnecessary swipes at religion at times. So, when I asked them this question some included Dawkins, others didn't.

Basically this thread has three purposes :
First, establish if there are any non Christian critics of Christianity out there who's arguments are well received or respected. (For the record if a non regular says Dawkins I shall treat the rest of the posts of that person as very suspicious.)
Second, make Christians more aware of interesting authors or commentators on various topics that they might not be aware of or have a hesitancy towards reading because of that author's religious beliefs.
Third, hopefully help refine the dialectic between non Christians and Christians.

philologos

Funnily enough the non-believers that I respect generally are not all that well known. For example William Rowe, or J. L Mackie who have made considerable contributions to the philosophy of religion. I also have a lot of respect for some of David Hume's examination into some common arguments for the existence of God. I like their arguments because they actually present positive arguments for non-belief something which is distinctly lacking in the case of most non-believers. These people to me make a much better effort at elaborating their position than most new-atheists.

I think that most Christians are quite open-minded in respect to non-religious writing. I gave Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens a fair shot and I will do the same for anyone else that happens to pluck my interest at least for a time.

Manach

Slight cavaet in that I'd not include such as Jonah Goldburg or Alan Dershowitz, who I'd class as believers in a God, or other non-Christain believers.
The first name, who sadly has passed away, would be Stephen Jay Gould. He was an excellent Scientist, and someone I thought had interesting ideas on the intersection of religion and science.
In a history course, I'd read on David Hume. His "On Mircles", I'm still trying to digest it.
As a classicist I'd also reach for ancients such as Cierco, who would see nothing supernatural about relgion, but view it as a means of social engineering, designed to bolster the state.

Turtwig

Just to clarify, non Christians is what I'm looking for. Theists, Deists, atheist, Muslim etc. it doesn't matter.:)

Baggio1

well.. its a goood question,, for me most would be in bands that i like... now its very possile they may well believe - but its not obvious so ill take it that they dont ... band members of rush , jethro tull, etc all good living guys but not sure any are believers... people through history like sitting bull and crazy horser and also alexander the great and leonidas of sparta, for many different reasons,,,, ok its a weird list but we drummers are ,, um weired? hahaha

Turtwig

^^

Sorry, but I'm afraid I don't understand your post. Would you mind clarifying it?:o

PDN

Most of my favourite authors are (or were) non-Christians: Tom Holland; Jared Diamond; Brian Greene; Bill Bryson; Emil Zola all spring to mind.

Asry

My boyfriend My nana's family (Jewish) and my cousin Adam (Muslim). I love them all. Just because they don't believe doesn't mean I should be against them, does it? I like everyone until they give me a reason not to.

Fanny Cradock

I like Paul Davies. The Mind of God is an excellent read. I'd also reccommend Terry Eagelton. I'm not quite sure what he believes but I wouldn't classify him as holding orthodox Christian beliefs. His book "Reason, Faith and Revolution" is a good read. John Gray is one of those brutally honest atheist writers that I admire because he isn't afraid to point out the problems he sees with a worldview based upon atheism. Black Mass is worth picking up. I quite like some science fiction writers - Asimov for example. My favourite sci-fi book is Roadside Picnic by the Jewish Strugatsky brothers. It later inspired a film and computer games called Stalker.

Monty.

I respect anyone who respects my beliefs, and in turn I respect theirs.
As Mahatma Ghandi said ; there is room for us all.
All we have to do is show eachother respect and treat others how you would like to be treated yourself.
It is such a pity that many people are not able to grasp and practice this simple concept.

Hangballlouie

My missus and some of my family, although they are on their way to being saved! Out of famous people I would like bill maher. I've seem his movie on religion and found it entertaining but I like that he says that he just doesn't know the answer. Sometimes he can be arrogant but he always comes back to "I just don't know. Unlike Dawkins who through his arrogance believes he is correct. I read a half of chapter of his book but it only heightened my beliefs.

Hangballlouie

Sorry if my previous post is messy, typing off my iPhone

prinz

Malty_T wrote: »

Ok, this is a pretty unique thread. Are there any non Christians out there who you happen to like. By like, I mean will read, watch, or listen to their stuff for purposes other than being up to date with opponent material..

That's a hard question tbh. Most comedians/actors etc I don't really care if they are believers or not, I think some atheists would be Dermot Morgan, Hugh Laurie, some of the Monty Python group etc., actors too many to mention same with musicians, authors etc etc.

As for listening/reading people because they are atheist or Muslim or whatever else I have read books by the Dalai Lama, Robin Sharma (not sure what his religious affiliations are...if any...) but his books seem to explore a sort of Eastern spirituality, tried reading Salman Rushdie (keep starting The Satanic Verses but never seem to get very far), Khaled Hosseini - for a background to Afghanistan, mostly for the historical aspects though, not primarily for the religious aspect. That goes for everything though, I don't pick a lot of books specifically because the author would be Christian or the theme Christian or the author non-Christian/atheist or whatever. More into books on other stuff for which the belief or lack of belief by the author is irrelevant.

Just remembered another one a book by Sean Moncrieff called The Users Guide to God not sure what his inclinations are but it was a light introduction to many religions.

Fanny Cradock

prinz wrote: »

Just remembered another one a book by Sean Moncrieff called The Users Guide to God not sure what his inclinations are but it was a light introduction to many religions.

I think he is probably an atheist.

TravelJunkie

Malty_T wrote: »

Ok, this is a pretty unique thread. Are there any non Christians out there who you happen to like. By like, I mean will read, watch, or listen to their stuff for purposes other than being up to date with opponent material. If I was to guess I'd guess Paul Davies and Brian Greene. If you haven't heard of either, then I suggest you google their writings. I realise this isn't a wholly black or white question either. For instance many Christians I know love Dawkins' science books (they are truly excellent) but hate the way he throws in completely unnecessary swipes at religion at times. So, when I asked them this question some included Dawkins, others didn't.

Basically this thread has three purposes :
First, establish if there are any non Christian critics of Christianity out there who's arguments are well received or respected. (For the record if a non regular says Dawkins I shall treat the rest of the posts of that person as very suspicious.)
Second, make Christians more aware of interesting authors or commentators on various topics that they might not be aware of or have a hesitancy towards reading because of that author's religious beliefs.
Third, hopefully help refine the dialectic between non Christians and Christians.

Your post sounds a little condescending to me. Do you think christians live in some kind of hole where the only material they're exposed to is christian? we'd have to switch of the TV not buy a paper and definately not post here.

But, if your question is actually who's non-christian philosophical views we find interesting... different question.

Asry

TravelJunkie wrote: »

Your post sounds a little condescending to me. Do you think christians live in some kind of hole where the only material they're exposed to is christian? we'd have to switch of the TV not buy a paper and definately not post here.

I don't know of any non-Christian writers and thinkers who address Christianity, so I'm finding this actually really helpful. The doesn't mean I live in a hole though. It just means I've read a lot of stuff by Christians (some of them saints) about Christianity, and the only other view I have is the rapid frenzy of the media...and Mr Dawkins, of course (I haven't read his book but he seems like such an arrogant man that I don't know if I want to or not).

TravelJunkie wrote: »

But, if your question is actually who's non-christian philosophical views we find interesting... different question.

That's kind of exactly what the OP said

Soul Winner

Mahatma Gandhi
Albert Einstein
Francis Crick
Malcom X
Sir Fred Hoyle
Sir David Attenborough
David Berlinski
Rabbi Moshe Averick
Barry Schwartz
Bill Bryson
Anthony Flew

To name a few...

CerebralCortex

Soul Winner wrote: »

Albert Einstein
Francis Crick
Malcom X
Sir Fred Hoyle
Sir David Attenborough
David Berlinski
Rabbi Moshe Averick
Barry Schwartz
Bill Bryson
Anthony Flew

To name a few...

Mahatma Gandhi - Theist
Albert Einstein - Ok
Francis Crick - Ok
Malcom X - Theist
Sir Fred Hoyle - Weird ideas about evolution.
Sir David Attenborough - Meh.. ...Okay
David Berlinski - Senior Fellow of the Discovery Institute's Center for Science and Culture!!!?
Rabbi Moshe Averick - Theist
Barry Schwartz - ?
Bill Bryson - ?
Anthony Flew - Deist correct me if I'm wrong.

JimiTime

CerebralCortex wrote: »

Mahatma Gandhi - Theist
Albert Einstein - Ok
Francis Crick - Ok
Malcom X - Theist
Sir Fred Hoyle - Weird ideas about evolution.
Sir David Attenborough - Meh.. ...Okay
David Berlinski - Senior Fellow of the Discovery Institute's Center for Science and Culture!!!?
Rabbi Moshe Averick - Theist
Barry Schwartz - ?
Bill Bryson - ?
Anthony Flew - Deist correct me if I'm wrong.

I assume that you are putting in 'theist' etc to make the point that they are believers? If so
FYI:

maltyt wrote:

Are there any non Christians out there who you happen to like

Turtwig

JimiTime wrote: »

I assume that you are putting in 'theist' etc to make the point that they are believers? If so
FYI:

Spot on.
Thanks Jimi.

Fanny Cradock

TravelJunkie wrote: »

Your post sounds a little condescending to me. Do you think christians live in some kind of hole where the only material they're exposed to is christian? we'd have to switch of the TV not buy a paper and definately not post here.

But, if your question is actually who's non-christian philosophical views we find interesting... different question.

That's a little unfair.

CerebralCortex wrote: »

Mahatma Gandhi - Theist
Albert Einstein - Ok
Francis Crick - Ok
Malcom X - Theist
Sir Fred Hoyle - Weird ideas about evolution.
Sir David Attenborough - Meh.. ...Okay
David Berlinski - Senior Fellow of the Discovery Institute's Center for Science and Culture!!!?
Rabbi Moshe Averick - Theist
Barry Schwartz - ?
Bill Bryson - ?
Anthony Flew - Deist correct me if I'm wrong.

Non-believer in the context of this forum can mean non-Christian. That means from the perspective of Christianity Einstien's mysticism, Malcom X's Islam and Attenborough's agnosticism are classified as non-belief. But perhaps Malty can clarify?

Incidentally, it is of no relevance that Hoyle held odd views on evolution, the big bang or cheese making. He was an atheist. Nor does it matter that Flew later became some sort of deist. The point is that he was a champion of atheism for many years and you can still pick up one of his many books on atheism.

I dunno. It's like people want to argue just for the sake of it!

(whoops - cross-posted with Jimi!)

Turtwig

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Non-believer in the context of this forum can mean non-Christian.

Yep, essentially anybody who is a not a Christian.
(Cerebral I did use 'non Christian' quite a bit in the OP.:p)

roosh

Sam Harris - haven't read anything by him, but have watched a few talks and debates with him.

Eckhart Tolle - the Power of Now helped to change my perception of what God actually is.

HH Dalai Lama - some of his online teachings are very - wait for it - enlightening

Thich Nhat Hanh - have listened to some of his teachings and found them pretty good

Sogyal Rinpoche - the Tibetan Book of Living & Dying is a very good read (inspite of the controversy surrounding the author)

Monty.

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

That's a little unfair.

+ 1, and just for the record Einstein was an agnostic theist.
“I'm absolutely not an atheist. I don't think I can call myself a pantheist.”

CerebralCortex

Monty. wrote: »

+ 1, and just for the record Einstein was an agnostic theist.
“I'm absolutely not an atheist. I don't think I can call myself a pantheist.”

Agreed. How does that make him an agnostic theist? Very certainly was not a theist.

Fanny Cradock

CerebralCortex wrote: »

Agreed. How does that make him an agnostic theist? Very certainly was not a theist.

Great. Take it elsewhere.

Soul Winner

CerebralCortex wrote: »

Mahatma Gandhi - Theist
Albert Einstein - Ok
Francis Crick - Ok
Malcom X - Theist
Sir Fred Hoyle - Weird ideas about evolution.
Sir David Attenborough - Meh.. ...Okay
David Berlinski - Senior Fellow of the Discovery Institute's Center for Science and Culture!!!?
Rabbi Moshe Averick - Theist
Barry Schwartz - ?
Bill Bryson - ?
Anthony Flew - Deist correct me if I'm wrong.

Eh... what Jimi, Fanny and Malti said...