Who has better backs, Australia or New Zealand?

15Pete

S0crates and his peers have been discussing this question in depth recently. As it says on the tin, who do you think has better backs and what will be the first-choice backlines for the World Cup? In terms of depth and starting players.

S0crates has decided after much deliberation that the two would ideally line up as follows, using form and potential as guidelines.

Australia:
15. Kurtley Beale
14. James O'Connor
13. Adam Ashley-Cooper
12. Matt Giteau
11. Digby Ioine
10. Quade Cooper

Leaving out Drew Mitchell was very difficult and in the above team he would be pushing hard for either wing berth(assuming they could drop Beale play O'Connor at 15 and keep Digby on the other).

New Zealand have some tougher decisions and could field two world-class backlines. S0crates would have them line up like this

15. Mils Muliaina
14. Cory Jane
13. Conrad Smith
12. Sonny Bill Williams
11. Isiah Toeava
10. Dan Carter

The two wing spots are the hardest to pick with Wulf, Dagg, Gear, Rococoko, Sivivatu, Guilford and many more in the mix. Graham Henry is flat-out spoiled for choices.

Overall S0crates believes Australia have a slightly stronger starting backline, not least for the variety of kicking options available to them. New Zealand have more quality depth.

Thoughts?

jolley123

I'd say NZ
10. Carter is much more controlling and complete out-half than Quade-Cooper
12. Nonu is exactly what you want in a 12, he get's you over the gain-line. Whereas Aus don't have someone like that. They seem to go for a second playmaker in Giteau, who hasn't been at his best.
13. Smith is one of the world's best 13s, and although I think ACC's best position is 13, I would have Smith over him.
14. Jane is a better winger for me than O'Connor. O'Connor is much more versatile, but Jane for me has mastered his position.

The only Aussies I would have in a mixed back-line of the two would be Mitchell and Beale. Personally, I think Henry should give Dagg time to prove himself at 15 in this 3N. Muliaina has bags of experience, but Dagg has more spark.


My starting Aus BL

10. Cooper
11. Mitchell
12. McCabe
13. Ashley-Cooper
14. O'Connor
15. Beale

My starting NZ BL

10. Carter
11. Gear
12. Nonu
13. Smith
14. Jane
15. Dagg

I personally think that the Aussies have more talent in their backline with O'Connor, Beale and Cooper. You're also forgetting scrum halfs :S Genia and Burgess are both far better than anything NZ have right now.

JustinDee

I wouldn't have Ioane as a first choice winger ahead of Mitchell and Turner.
NZ out of form at halfback compared to Wallabies who have Genia and Burgess but at 10 have the luxury of Carter.
Backline not worth a poop though if your pack isn't performing.

CiaranMT

JustinDee wrote: »

I wouldn't have Ioane as a first choice winger ahead of Mitchell and Turner.
NZ out of form at halfback compared to Wallabies who have Genia and Burgess but at 10 have the luxury of Carter.
Backline not worth a poop though if your pack isn't performing.

And the ABs have a much stronger one.

JustinDee

CiaranMT wrote: »

And the ABs have a much stronger one.

On paper, they might edge it. In a playoff RWC game, not quite so easy to laud.

CiaranMT

JustinDee wrote: »

On paper, they might edge it. In a playoff RWC game, not quite so easy to laud.

Pack?

Who from the Oz pack would you have over their AB counterpart? Elsom? Pocock possibly?

JustinDee

I'm not going to get in Ali v Tyson chatter here. On paper NZ edge on paper as I said. They nearly always have done. On the day in a crunch RWC game, I'm not so sure anything has changed to indicate them impervious to being beaten.

Dr.Evil

15. Kurtley Beale Vs. Mils Muliaina
14. James O'Connor Vs. Cory Jane
13. Adam Ashley-Cooper Vs. Conrad Smith
12. Matt Giteau Vs. Sonny Bill Williams
11. Digby Ioane Vs. Isiah Toeava
10. Quade Cooper Vs. Dan Carter

It's a toughie. I think the Australian's is more exciting, but that's just because I've been hyping them up recently. They could do seriously well if they hit form. If I was picking a backline out of those I'd personally go for

Beale
Jane
Smith
Williams
Ioane
Cooper

Beale I rate higher than Muliaina now, Jane over O'Connor was a tight call, Smith I rate higher than Cooper, Williams is a freak and Giteau isn't in great form, Ioane is only in because I don't know enough about Toeava, and Cooper...I just like the excitement he brings, he's not as strong all round as Carter but I just like Cooper :P

handsomecake

S0crates wrote: »

S0crates and his peers have been discussing this question in depth recently. As it says on the tin, who do you think has better backs and what will be the first-choice backlines for the World Cup? In terms of depth and starting players.

S0crates has decided after much deliberation that the two would ideally line up as follows, using form and potential as guidelines.

Australia:
15. Kurtley Beale
14. James O'Connor
13. Adam Ashley-Cooper
12. Matt Giteau
11. Digby Ioine
10. Quade Cooper

Leaving out Drew Mitchell was very difficult and in the above team he would be pushing hard for either wing berth(assuming they could drop Beale play O'Connor at 15 and keep Digby on the other).

New Zealand have some tougher decisions and could field two world-class backlines. S0crates would have them line up like this

15. Mils Muliaina
14. Cory Jane
13. Conrad Smith
12. Sonny Bill Williams
11. Isiah Toeava
10. Dan Carter

The two wing spots are the hardest to pick with Wulf, Dagg, Gear, Rococoko, Sivivatu, Guilford and many more in the mix. Graham Henry is flat-out spoiled for choices.

Overall S0crates believes Australia have a slightly stronger starting backline, not least for the variety of kicking options available to them. New Zealand have more quality depth.

Thoughts?

why would rudy wulf even come in to the equation. he didnt play super 15 or npc.not eligible.also you left out ben smith and sean maitland

handsomecake

Dr.Evil wrote: »

15. Kurtley Beale Vs. Mils Muliaina
14. James O'Connor Vs. Cory Jane
13. Adam Ashley-Cooper Vs. Conrad Smith
12. Matt Giteau Vs. Sonny Bill Williams
11. Digby Ioane Vs. Isiah Toeava
10. Quade Cooper Vs. Dan Carter

It's a toughie. I think the Australian's is more exciting, but that's just because I've been hyping them up recently. They could do seriously well if they hit form. If I was picking a backline out of those I'd personally go for

Beale
Jane
Smith
Williams
Ioane
Cooper




Beale I rate higher than Muliaina now, Jane over O'Connor was a tight call, Smith I rate higher than Cooper, Williams is a freak and Giteau isn't in great form, Ioane is only in because I don't know enough about Toeava, and Cooper...I just like the excitement he brings, he's not as strong all round as Carter but I just like Cooper :P

cooper isnt better then carter and has to be moved to 15 on defence because he cant tackle. someone else highlighted the fact (and its a good observation) that coopers broken field play is accentuated by the fact he is often standing at 15 fielding punts or receiving passes from the fb or winger deep in the field and has staggered defence ahead of him and plenty of space to get up a head of steam.he is freakish in broken field though.

carter does much more then cooper off first phase ball..

handsomecake

jolley123 wrote: »

I'd say NZ
10. Carter is much more controlling and complete out-half than Quade-Cooper
12. Nonu is exactly what you want in a 12, he get's you over the gain-line. Whereas Aus don't have someone like that. They seem to go for a second playmaker in Giteau, who hasn't been at his best.
13. Smith is one of the world's best 13s, and although I think ACC's best position is 13, I would have Smith over him.
14. Jane is a better winger for me than O'Connor. O'Connor is much more versatile, but Jane for me has mastered his position.

The only Aussies I would have in a mixed back-line of the two would be Mitchell and Beale. Personally, I think Henry should give Dagg time to prove himself at 15 in this 3N. Muliaina has bags of experience, but Dagg has more spark.


My starting Aus BL

10. Cooper
11. Mitchell
12. McCabe
13. Ashley-Cooper
14. O'Connor
15. Beale

My starting NZ BL

10. Carter
11. Gear
12. Nonu
13. Smith
14. Jane
15. Dagg

dagg is going to be a supertar after this world cup. even talk of him playing ten.can play anywhere

CIARAN_BOYLE

I'd give it to NZ for quality. In terms of depth I'd give it to NZ apart from 10. Carter gets injured and everything can fall apart.

Digifriendly

Australia on paper look more exciting but NZ are more dependable IMHO and agree re NZ 10 - if Carter is injured 'Houston we have a problem.'

twinytwo

while the aussies win games, nz tear teams a new asshole... there in lies the answer

irishbucsfan

New Zealand are better than Australia in nearly every position.

sock puppet

JustinDee wrote: »

I wouldn't have Ioane as a first choice winger ahead of Mitchell and Turner.

He'd definitely be ahead of Turner. Mitchell would have to be ahead of him yes. One of the best wingers around.

JustinDee

sock puppet wrote: »

He'd definitely be ahead of Turner. Mitchell would have to be ahead of him yes. One of the best wingers around.

Turner has it all. The quickest player in Australia, has the smarts, experience, a boot and just as importantly has a defensive game.
Ioane has pace and a hand-off.

astonaidan

New Zealand would have be ahead off Australia, I dont think Toeava will start for the All Blacks though,

Genia>Any All Blacks scrumhalf
Carter> Cooper even though id rate them number 1&2 in the world
Jane>Ioane
Giteau>Nonu
Smith>Ashley-Cooper
O'Connor>Gear
Muliaina>Beale

So its close but New Zealand have also got more in depth

GerM

NZ for me every time. Australia have players that are probably (in my opinion) actually more talented athletes overall in the back line but NZ have players that are just superb in their specialist position. Nearly all of Australia's backs are interchangeable and they nearly all line up in various positions. JOC is a more talented player than a lot of the NZ back line but I don't think he's a better out and out winger. Conrad Smith is a model of consistency. Nonu or SBW are more effective as inside centres than their Australian counterparts. The only Australians I would take are Beale and Genia. Beale currently is ahead of Muliaina but if MM was at his peak it would be hard to see past him. No contest between Carter and Cooper for me. Do you want to be entertained or do you want to win?