Use of Probation Act, criminal records, and required declarations on forms..

ArphaRima

I am in the process of completing an application for a firearms licence. I have stopped at a section asking:
Have you ever been found guilty of, or do you have any charges pending for, any offence in Ireland or Abroad?

In 2006 I was arrested for being drunk in a public place or similar. I was summoned to court and placed under the probation act for 1 year and I gave 200 euro to charity.

Firstly, how do I answer the question above?
Have I been convicted?
Have I been "found guilty"?
Do I have a criminal record?
Does a criminal record check for the purposes of a foreign visa application show the above infraction?

Lastly, for the purposes of foreign travel visas etc, can I apply to have my record expunged/cleared after a certain period by any means?

norrie_1001

fluffer wrote: »

I am in the process of completing an application for a firearms licence. I have stopped at a section asking:
Have you ever been found guilty of, or do you have any charges pending for, any offence in Ireland or Abroad?

In 2006 I was arrested for being drunk in a public place or similar. I was summoned to court and placed under the probation act for 1 year and I gave 200 euro to charity.

Firstly, how do I answer the question above?

No

fluffer wrote: »

Have I been convicted?

No. Probation Act is not a conviction.

fluffer wrote: »

Have I been "found guilty"?

No. The facts of the case may have been proven. However, you were not convicted, so you were not found guilty.

fluffer wrote: »

Do I have a criminal record?

No. You have no convictions.

fluffer wrote: »

Does a criminal record check for the purposes of a foreign visa application show the above infraction?

No.

fluffer wrote: »

Lastly, for the purposes of foreign travel visas etc, can I apply to have my record expunged/cleared after a certain period by any means?

No. Ireland does not operate such a system as of yet.

ArphaRima

Excellent, many thanks.

I wasnt at all sure about the criminal record check showing something or not. It would be serious hassle if it did show anything.

I read an article in the paper about somebody applying to have his record expunged in court. I never heard the outcome of the case, and wouldnt know where to look.

ResearchWill

It all depends Was it section 1 (1) (i) or section 1 (1) (ii) from what you said it sounds like the latter and in that case in my opinion you have a conviction.

MagicSean

Either way it will show up when they check your record.

ArphaRima

Ah. Now you have re-opened my question.

I found the following article. Yes I know the source is awful!
http://www.herald.ie/news/courts/gardai-told-to-stop-calling-probation-act-a-conviction-1512214.html

I dont particularly care if I get turned down for a firearms application, but I do care if the Gardai are incorrectly informing foreign embassies that I have a criminal conviction..

Showing up on PULSE is completely different to being an official, reportable conviction. However I would like to hear opinions on how it is treated in practice.

After further reading I would like to clarify that I was not fined, but rather I was invited to contribute ~200 euro to charity. In other discussions I have seen people place emphasis on this difference.

MagicSean

I don't think it would show as part of a certificate of character which is what you need for visa.

It would most likely be considered in your firearm application but I doubt it would have much of an effect on it.

keano007

fluffer wrote: »

Ah. Now you have re-opened my question.

I found the following article. Yes I know the source is awful!
http://www.herald.ie/news/courts/gardai-told-to-stop-calling-probation-act-a-conviction-1512214.html

I dont particularly care if I get turned down for a firearms application, but I do care if the Gardai are incorrectly informing foreign embassies that I have a criminal conviction..

Showing up on PULSE is completely different to being an official, reportable conviction. However I would like to hear opinions on how it is treated in practice.

After further reading I would like to clarify that I was not fined, but rather I was invited to contribute ~200 euro to charity. In other discussions I have seen people place emphasis on this difference.

In fairness to the guard on this one that may have just been a error on his part. the judge seems like he over re-acted. my idea of given the person the benefit of s.1(1) or an adult caution for that matter is that if they do come to the attention of the courts again that the Judge should can be told about it.

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

I don't think it would show as part of a certificate of character which is what you need for visa.

It would most likely be considered in your firearm application but I doubt it would have much of an effect on it.

Seanbeag1 is spot on here it's not going to have any impact on your cert of character for a visa, however, its the local Garda district officer that makes the decision of your firearms application, but a minor public order incident will have no bearing on this.

ResearchWill

fluffer wrote: »

Ah. Now you have re-opened my question.

I found the following article. Yes I know the source is awful!
http://www.herald.ie/news/courts/gardai-told-to-stop-calling-probation-act-a-conviction-1512214.html

I dont particularly care if I get turned down for a firearms application, but I do care if the Gardai are incorrectly informing foreign embassies that I have a criminal conviction..

Showing up on PULSE is completely different to being an official, reportable conviction. However I would like to hear opinions on how it is treated in practice.

After further reading I would like to clarify that I was not fined, but rather I was invited to contribute ~200 euro to charity. In other discussions I have seen people place emphasis on this difference.

There is a lot of confusion as what the probation act does and does not do, as I pointed out earlier if it is under section 1 (1) (i) the judge after finding the person guilty may decide without conviction to strike out the matter. in that case the matter should not be recorded, under section 1(1) (ii) there are conditions Ie be of good behaviour for a year, that is being recorded as a conviction. There is a very good argument to be made that section 1(1) (ii) is not a conviction but to be safe a judge should be asked to deal with the matter under section 1 (1) (i) act below.

http://www.probation.ie/pws/websitepublishing.nsf/attachmentsbytitle/Probation+of+Offenders+Act+1907/$file/Probation+of+Offenders+Act+1907.pdf