Aviva announce new health insurance hike

Trampas

Get them in and hope they don't move seems to be aviva model or it is we need to move to pay for sponsoring lansdowne road

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0729/aviva.html

unclebill98

Seen it this morning. That's a massive set of hikes this year.

I'll be shopping around over the weekend but tbh it's not cheap anymore and after two trips to the a&e this year I'm beginning not to see the point in having it.

Cookie_Monster

Have to pay for the re-branding into Zurich somehow

9.5% on top of rises already the year is frankly digusting, I really wish there was some actual compitition in the Irish market to prevent stuff like this. I'm sure there'll also be a subtly reduction in coverage for various items also.

Why not simply work with the hospitals and HSE to properly track the patient and costs rather than accepting massive charge from hospitals without question?

cookie1977

Couldn't agree more with you on the tracking of charges. Lazy companies and lazy hospitals results in the poor consumer paying the difference

NuMarvel

In the case of public hospitals, it's not as simple as insurers just saying "We're paying X and no more". The charges for private and semi private beds in public hospitals are set out by the Minister for Health, in the relevant legislation. Insurers aren't able to negotiate with hospitals individually.

In addition to that, it was the view of previous Ministers for Health that the public system was subsidising these private beds. Charges were regularly increased with the view of insurers being charged the full economic cost of private and semi private facilities.

Also, minimum benefit regulations set out that all health insurance products must at least fully cover the cost of a semi private room in a public hospital. That doesn't mean that insuers must cover all public hospitals but presently, all three insurers cover all the acute public hospitals. If an insurer starts dropping these hospitals for cost reasons, they may lose customers.

Basically, it's all the Government's fault .

As for Aviva's price increase, my advice here is the same as always: Shop around. Firstly, ask your insurer if they offer a cheaper equivalent to your current plan (usually a company or corporate plan). And use the Health Insurance Authority's website to look for comparable products, and take some time to look at all the options.

Cookie_Monster

NuMarvel wrote: »

In the case of public hospitals, it's not as simple as insurers just saying "We're paying X and no more". The charges for private and semi private beds in public hospitals are set out by the Minister for Health, in the relevant legislation. Insurers aren't able to negotiate with hospitals individually.

I don't mean it quite like that.

Wasn't there some article or other recently enough (or maybe it was on here) that basically concluded that hospitals present a bill to the insurers and it gets paid without question, rather than the insurer seeking a line by line cost breakdown and backup that everything on the list was actually carried out and is correctly billed.
Rather than the hospital simply billing for x,xxx per night which covers A, B, C, D and E regardless if these tests / procedures are carried out in the particular case.

cookie1977

Due to bed issues my wife spent 1 night in public, 1 night in semi private and 3 nights in private but my insurance was billed for 5 nights private. This is the tracking of charges I speak of.

NuMarvel

cookie1977 wrote: »

Due to bed issues my wife spent 1 night in public, 1 night in semi private and 3 nights in private but my insurance was billed for 5 nights private. This is the tracking of charges I speak of.

I know that Quinn have a procedure of ringing a customer before paying a claim to check for this very thing. I'm not sure if it's done in every case, but they definitely do it at least some of the time.

VHI also have a "special investigations unit", where they'll check claims as well, but it seems to be more reactive, waiting for a customer to inform them of the discrepency. That may have changed since it was set up though.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I don't mean it quite like that.

Wasn't there some article or other recently enough (or maybe it was on here) that basically concluded that hospitals present a bill to the insurers and it gets paid without question, rather than the insurer seeking a line by line cost breakdown and backup that everything on the list was actually carried out and is correctly billed.
Rather than the hospital simply billing for x,xxx per night which covers A, B, C, D and E regardless if these tests / procedures are carried out in the particular case.

Speaking from experience, insurers don't just pay whatever's presented to them (at least, in the case of the insurer I worked for). The insurer will be aware of what the rates will be before any claim is made, as the rates are negotiated (as in the case of consultant charges and private hospitals), or are publicly available as in the case of charges from public hospitals.

As you and cookie1977 point out though, the key is in tracking the usage of hospital facilities. E.g. was that person in a private room for all 5 nights, did they have that MRI, did they see those 4 consultants, etc. Quinn and VHI have taken some steps to address that (and Aviva might have as well), but the question is if there are more steps they could taken without increasing administrative costs or be seen to harrass customers/patients.

cookie1977

I've had the following relayed to me:

Patient is being seen by consultant A for gastro issues and consultant B for respiratory issues. Patient is in today with Gastro issues and consultant A is treating them. Consultant A meets consultant B in hospital and lets them know their patient is in for gastro issues. Consultant B drops in to patient to see how they are and then bills patient's insurance for respiratory consult. Insurance pays out despite patient not having any respiratory issues that day.

More needs to be done to make sure insurance is being properly used and not abused. It seems to easy for them to abuse the system.

NuMarvel

cookie1977 wrote: »

More needs to be done to make sure insurance is being properly used and not abused. It seems to easy for them to abuse the system.

What actions do you think need to be taken?

cookie1977

I dont think patients would have to much of problem getting an itemised bill from the insurance company asking them to confirm the treatments carried out, and the type of room stayed in. I remember a woman on the news a few years back who lost her husband to mrsa and was billed incorrectly. She hassled the VHI not to pay the bill as it was incorrect but they still payed out to the hospital. It meant nothing to her as the insurance was covering it but she felt it was wrong that the hospital were billing for private room when he had been on the corridor for some of the days.

All these cost increases are part in due to this type of behavior.

NuMarvel

I htink a phone call would be quicker and cheaper than a letter and a copy of the bill or the like, but yeah, patient/customer involvement is the simplest way to do it. Probably not in all cases, some daycases can probably be paid without checking first.

And on the other side, the insurers could introduce penalties for hospitals/doctors that have a habit of billing incorrectly.

NUTLEY BOY

Question.

How can AVIVA make it more expensive for new members to join as per that RTE report ?

cookie1977

Because existing members are locked into a lower price until their next renewal whereas new customer have to take the new higher price upon joining