NAMA to flood the market with Apartments

Cookie_Monster

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/nama-to-help-first-time-buyers-but-property-tax-up-to-euro600pa-2833252.html

TWO separate attempts to generate badly needed Exchequer cash from property can be exclusively revealed today.

In a desperate attempt to kickstart the market, NAMA will stump up some of the money needed by first-time buyers to buy its apartments.

And those who own their own homes face swingeing property tax bills of up to €600 a year when the permanent scheme is introduced in three years' time.

NAMA will sell hundreds of apartments in various parts of Dublin from October in a radical move to bring some life to the moribund property market.

Chairman of the agency, Frank Daly, has outlined fresh details of plans to give loans to buyers of apartment blocks that it currently owns.

He said this would include asking both domestic and foreign lenders to join with it in the initiative.

The pilot phase will be in Dublin and start in October, with a "couple of hundred'' apartments being offered.

In an interview with the Irish Independent on the eve of NAMA's first annual report, Mr Daly said banks were not lending enough to the property market and had gone to the "other end of the spectrum'' after the carefree lending of the boom.

The urgent need for the new plan will be revealed today when NAMA discloses that the value of its properties has plunged by about €1.3bn in just one year.

So come October we'll all be able to buy apartments for peanuts as supply will hugely outstrip demand again, right?

Somehow I doubt it, this is a worrying occurrence IMO, these apts will no doubt still carry a significant premium over their actual worth, more people will be duped into buying "good value" deals and NAMA will play some crazy tune that involves selling a 200k* apartment for 170k and putting 30k of it's own money in and recording it as a 200k sale (as per the other thread recently)

Nice that they've buried the new that the property tax will be 600 right in the middle of the article too, maybe you won't notice that...

*numbers for example only, principle is valid

Sleepy

Will be interesting to see the uptake and general effect this has on the economy.

Would I be the only eligible "First Time Buyer" on the forum who'd be loathe to even consider an appartment built during the bubble due to build quality issues? Whenever I get into the market, I'll be looking at houses that are at least 30 years old, in mature areas and preferably ones in need of some updating...

Cookie_Monster

Sleepy wrote: »

Would I be the only eligible "First Time Buyer" on the forum who'd be loathe to even consider an appartment built during the bubble due to build quality issues?

no.

I would be a first timer buyer if I was even thinking about buying, but would not touch something like that, well unless it was 20 grand or similar :pac:

I'll hold out for a tiny house for 600k instead
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/property/2011/0728/1224301490121.html

I wonder if these apartments will be non-soundproofed shoebox ones!

...and NAMA will play some crazy tune that involves selling a 200k* apartment for 170k and putting 30k of it's own money in and recording it as a 200k sale (as per the other thread recently)

Well we can't possibly have apartments actually being cheap! We have to prop things up at all costs! :eek:

Tabnabs

bluewolf wrote: »

I'll hold out for a tiny house for 600k instead
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/property/2011/0728/1224301490121.html

1000sqft is tiny? *bows to QEII*

Tabnabs

Tabnabs wrote: »

1000sqft is tiny? *bows to QEII*

I may have missed that part :pac:
The picture isn't very good!

Tabnabs

bluewolf wrote: »

I may have missed that part :pac:
The picture isn't very good!

TBH, it's pretty nice whatever about the price

http://www.felicityfox.ie/sales/381

catbear

At this stage the only people that will be duped really shouldn't be allowed to near a tin opener.

FlashD

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

more people will be duped into buying

What's this 'duped' business?

Last time I looked people were free to spend their money when, where and how they liked. It has been like that for a long time.

Regards.

Tabnabs

Oh, did you not get the memo? The banks held a gun to peoples heads and made them sign the paperwork. And that was after the EA blindfolded them and made them choose a property out of a hat.

Cookie_Monster

FlashD wrote: »

What's this 'duped' business?

Last time I looked people were free to spend their money when, where and how they liked. It has been like that for a long time.

Regards.

this will be pushed as "being excellent value" and "at knock down prices" and "completely affordable" and similar phrases and the housing boom proved people will not do the research and will be persuaded by the buzz words and think they are doing well, but in reality will probably still be paying 2 or 3 times the actual worth of these apartments.

Why would anyone buy an apartment off NAMA unless it was sub 50k. The building standards are going to be ****e*, the facilities incomplete*, the method of selling questionable in the extreme. If NAMA in reality wanted to get rid of these apartments affordably, why not simply auction them, let demand settle the price rather than going to the market and saying you can have it for X amount, take it or leave it.


*like the majority of Celtic Tiger builds

Saltfeather

Sleepy wrote: »

Will be interesting to see the uptake and general effect this has on the economy.

Would I be the only eligible "First Time Buyer" on the forum who'd be loathe to even consider an appartment built during the bubble due to build quality issues? Whenever I get into the market, I'll be looking at houses that are at least 30 years old, in mature areas and preferably ones in need of some updating...

nope we're the same, have zero interest in a namapartment and amoung my peers, couples in their late 20's early 30's that are first time buyers currently renting and watching, i can say with confidence that they're of the same opinion:)

RichardAnd

There are blocks of empty Celtic Club apartments a short drive from where I live. They are currently being marketed for 160k a pop (according to the ostentatious sign strapped to the side of the building. I wouldn't pay 16k for one.

What NAMA and many sorry souls throughout the island need to grasp is that many apartments and houses are worth nothing.

keithclancy

NAMA will stump up some of the money needed by first-time buyers to buy its apartments.

Who the F*CK is running the place.

They're going to sell the Apartments cheap and then give some of the money to actually buy the place as well ? ?!!!

So its not actually a loss on the property but also a loss on the cash they'll be paying out too.

What a bunch of idiots, seriously, if you need some asset management agency to give you a loan to get a mortgage on a house theres a screw loose somewhere.

SBWife

From what I understand there's no upfront monies from NAMA to the buyers. They pay a 10% deposit and secure a 90% mortgage - for 5 years they make payments based on this initial property valuation.

Then after the 5 years there are two scenarios:

(1) the property is worth the same or more than it was initially and the purchaser continues to make the payments on the loan based on the original amounts.

(2) the property is worth less than it was initially the purchasers mortgage is reduced by the decline in value up to 20% of the initial purchase price.

mambo

Dan White explains why this is a dumb idea.

Dan White: NAMA should keep its nose out and let house prices continue to fall
http://www.herald.ie/opinion/columnists/dan-white/dan-white-nama-should-keep-its-nose-out-and-let-house-prices-continue-to-fall-2834167.html

Dob74

SBWife wrote: »

From what I understand there's no upfront monies from NAMA to the buyers. They pay a 10% deposit and secure a 90% mortgage - for 5 years they make payments based on this initial property valuation.

Then after the 5 years there are two scenarios:

(1) the property is worth the same or more than it was initially and the purchaser continues to make the payments on the loan based on the original amounts.

(2) the property is worth less than it was initially the purchasers mortgage is reduced by the decline in value up to 20% of the initial purchase price.

This is only going to push up prices for first time buyers.
The gov most decide is NAMA there to prop up property prices or let them correct to affordable prices.
Shame on FG/LAB for allowing NAMA rip off first time buyers like the last gov.

the groutch

Sleepy wrote: »

I'll be looking at houses that are at least 30 years old, in mature areas and preferably ones in need of some updating...

yeah, go buy a house with an F BER rating

Sleepy

the groutch wrote: »

yeah, go buy a house with an F BER rating

Happily traded for space, sound proofing and a build quality that ensures the walls won't fall down around us...

Insulation can be added easily.

quietsailor

the groutch wrote: »

yeah, go buy a house with an F BER rating

But its easy to upgrade your BER rating if you buy a 20 yr old house; it will probably need gutting anyway (unless it's been decorated in the last 5 yrs) so now you put in the new windows, internal insulation, attic insulation, new boiler and zoned heating while you have the house torn apart.

That is nothing special to do, involves no specialist tradesman beyond what would be working on any refurbishment. I'm doing most of that myself without help.

You won't get an A rating; I don't think any house can without being passive rated but high C low B would be possible.**

**Now would be a good time for any BER assesor to jump in and shoot me down :eek:.

Hoffmans

ber what the hell did people do in the 60s 70s 80s 00s without ber certs,

its quiet obvious these worthless pieces of paper anr part of the green agenda..........
http://www.green-agenda.com/agenda21.html

ScouseMouse

Hoffmans wrote: »

ber what the hell did people do in the 60s 70s 80s 00s without ber certs,

its quiet obvious these worthless pieces of paper anr part of the green agenda..........
http://www.green-agenda.com/agenda21.html

Courtesy of that spacer, dickhead Gormley.

He will save the world alright, but the country will be dead and buried from the strain of it.

Icepick

Hoffmans wrote: »

ber what the hell did people do in the 60s 70s 80s 00s without ber certs

spent loads on heating

ted1

Icepick wrote: »

spent loads on heating

Nonsense they spent feck all remember heating costs have only spiralled recently.

SBWife

Icepick wrote: »

spent loads on heating

Most didn't heat their homes properly, Ireland until recently was full of cold damp houses.

thebman

SBWife wrote: »

Most didn't heat their homes properly, Ireland until recently was full of cold damp houses.

Yes and it should also be noted that many old people still burn turf to save on heating costs and that isn't allowed anymore either.

Unfortunately some old people are going to die once these "green" plans are put in place and the government cuts fuel allowances

goalscoringhero

SBWife wrote: »

From what I understand there's no upfront monies from NAMA to the buyers. They pay a 10% deposit and secure a 90% mortgage - for 5 years they make payments based on this initial property valuation.

Then after the 5 years there are two scenarios:

(1) the property is worth the same or more than it was initially and the purchaser continues to make the payments on the loan based on the original amounts.

(2) the property is worth less than it was initially the purchasers mortgage is reduced by the decline in value up to 20% of the initial purchase price.

It's another attempt to start a new scam/ponzi scheme/bubble and make people believe there is no risk involved, especially if they get in early.

thebman

Yes trying to convince people we hit bottom in the property market.

Good luck with that NAMA. You can lay your own floor but don't think we can't see the cracks in the tiles.

Talk to us in 5-10 years when people might actually be able to afford houses.

SBWife

thebman wrote: »

Yes and it should also be noted that many old people still burn turf to save on heating costs and that isn't allowed anymore either.

Unfortunately some old people are going to die once these "green" plans are put in place and the government cuts fuel allowances

Burning turf continues to be legal in Ireland, cutting it from certain protected raised bogs is not.

MadsL

The same people who told us we would have a soft landing are saying we will crawl out ... we have bottomed out. We have not. We are very far from the bottom of the property market.

Morgan Kelly
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/ireland-business-blog-with-lisa-ocarroll/2011/aug/08/ireland-debt-crisis

And that leaves us with how much of a tab to pick up once NAMA puts its toe in the water and these apartments on the market.

View

Couldn't NAMA just give one each to "everyone in the audience"? That way we'd have something to show when we look back on the "Celtic Tiger" in years to come... :-)

goalscoringhero

View wrote: »

Couldn't NAMA just give one each to "everyone in the audience"? That way we'd have something to show when we look back on the "Celtic Tiger" in years to come... :-)

Yes, but that's not the idea.

The idea is to scam us clueless people into transfering what's left of our wealth into the hands of our paymasters, without upsetting us too much. This will go on as long as we allow it to happen.

Of course houses could be given away for free. Of course the ECB could print money and distribute it to national governments so they could use it to pay their bills. There is a lot you can do with 50bn, for instance set up a completely new bank that has no worthless papers (hold until mature) in rotting their vaults.

Did it not occur to you that everywhere in Europe and the US the same thing happens over and over again?
If NAMA was the only institution of such sort we could have said: 'well lads, ye meant well but got it wrong on a grand scale'.
The fact that this is happening in one form or another in every country in the western world makes it highly unlikely that this is not 'by design'.

They keep their wealth, previously backed by 'innovative financial investment instruments', but now they know their debt-backed currency is completely worthless. So they try to recoup some of their losses by our wealth, by forcing sovereign states into austerity. We are told 'if you behave, everything will turn out fine for ye'.
Do you believe it?
Just before the first bailout will end there will be another bailout. We eat the ****, they give us more ****.

Sorry, got carried away a little. Read this essay: http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/08/james-galbraith-on-fraud-and-how-bad-economic-thinking-got-us-in-this-mess.html

Duke Leonal Felmet

Tabnabs wrote: »

Oh, did you not get the memo? The banks held a gun to peoples heads and made them sign the paperwork. And that was after the EA blindfolded them and made them choose a property out of a hat.

All while Bertie stood over them, cackling and rubbing his hands.

Aidan1

Courtesy of that spacer, dickhead Gormley.

Gormley, for all of his faults, had nothing to do with BER Ratings - they were signed into law by his predecessor in Environment, and implemented by an entirely different Government Department. And they work too, btw.

RobbieTheRobber

Aidan1 wrote: »

Gormley, for all of his faults, had nothing to do with BER Ratings - they were signed into law by his predecessor in Environment, and implemented by an entirely different Government Department. And they work too, btw.

Not only were they not Ryans creation, they werent even an Irish government creation.
They came about as a result "of the EU Directive on the Energy Performance of Buildings (2002/91/EC of 16 December 2002), which has now been transposed in Ireland by the European Communities (Energy Performance of Buildings) Regulations 2006 (S.I. No. 666 of 2006)"


The SI number is interesting though!


http://www.beraware.ie/faq.html

ScouseMouse

Aidan1 wrote: »

Gormley, for all of his faults, had nothing to do with BER Ratings - they were signed into law by his predecessor in Environment, and implemented by an entirely different Government Department. And they work too, btw.

Thanks for that. I honestly didnt know. Its just him and the rest of the spacecadets came up with so many hairbrained schemes, I figured it had to be him.

AlekSmart

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Not only were they not Ryans creation, they werent even an Irish government creation.
They came about as a result "of the EU Directive on the Energy Performance of Buildings (2002/91/EC of 16 December 2002), which has now been transposed in Ireland by the European Communities (Energy Performance of Buildings) Regulations 2006 (S.I. No. 666 of 2006)"


The SI number is interesting though!


http://www.beraware.ie/faq.html

I can see the Gay Byrne for Prez Campaign making hay with that sure
`nuff

MadsL

Not to go off topic but I couldn't let this go;

so many hairbrained schemes

Such as?