Government considering whether to ban smoking in all cars

nesf

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2011/0727/1224301449234.html

This is utter nanny-state lunacy. The State has absolutely no business dictating what goes on in someone's private car like this.

Overheal

At the funny same time you don't have (or a limited) expectation of privacy in a car either do you? Which begs the question what exactly is the privacy status of your vehicle when you operate it in public?

MyKeyG

nesf wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2011/0727/1224301449234.html

This is utter nanny-state lunacy. The State has absolutely no business dictating what goes on in someone's private car like this.

The state have plenty business protecting it's young citizens. I think you've drawn your own conclusions regarding this article. IMO it has nothing to do with a nanny state but rather addresses positive measures to protect the welfare of children and other road users.

breaching the ban would be considered as either a road traffic offence or public health issue

Firstly the ban is for the purposes of protecting individuals under 16 who are being exposed to harmful smoke in a confined space. I see nothing wrong with this at all.

Secondly to occupy your hands with anything other than is necessary to safely operate a motor vehicle should certainly be banned whether it be a mobile, a cigarette or a bottle of water.

Overheal

MyKeyG wrote: »

Secondly to occupy your hands with anything other than is necessary to safely operate a motor vehicle should certainly be banned whether it be a mobile, a cigarette or a bottle of water.

Good luck with enforcement.. /slurps coffee /hangs arm out window

MyKeyG

Overheal wrote: »

Good luck with enforcement.. /slurps coffee /hangs arm out window

No that's a fair point but there's a certain measure of reasonable expectation regarding enforcement with all law. A law invariably reduces the commission of an act being targeted, it doesn't eliminate it.

stacexD

Fair play. The attitude of smokers is terrible. No doubt there will be drama and people protesting that they should be allowed to make everyone around them suffer from their smoking.

nesf

MyKeyG wrote: »

The state have plenty business protecting it's young citizens. I think you've drawn your own conclusions regarding this article. IMO it has nothing to do with a nanny state but rather addresses positive measures to protect the welfare of children and other road users.Firstly the ban is for the purposes of protecting individuals under 16 who are being exposed to harmful smoke in a confined space. I see nothing wrong with this at all.

How exactly does banning smoking in all cars protect young citizens and it is utterly pointless to ban smoking in the car where exposure is limited if you don't ban smoking in the home where the kids spend the vast majority of their time.

It's bad enough that the State is intruding on yet another aspect of our lives (I don't drive so it doesn't affect me) but it's not even sensible given that any parent irresponsible enough to smoke in the car with the kids will definitely be smoking at home with the kids and doing the vast majority of the damage there.

Eric Cartman

Im not joking or exagerating when i say , a full ban on smoking in cars is the most overbearing un-necessary , un-enforcable , insane nanny state action ive ever heard proposed by an irish politician since i was born.

Even with kids in the car , most people do it with the windows open and the kids are in the back so your not blowing smoke in their faces anyway , utter madness

MyKeyG

nesf wrote: »

How exactly does banning smoking in all cars protect young citizens and it is utterly pointless to ban smoking in the car where exposure is limited if you don't ban smoking in the home where the kids spend the vast majority of their time.

It's bad enough that the State is intruding on yet another aspect of our lives (I don't drive so it doesn't affect me) but it's not even sensible given that any parent irresponsible enough to smoke in the car with the kids will definitely be smoking at home with the kids and doing the vast majority of the damage there.

There are two points of consideration there. Firstly any exposure to harmful substances is too much exposure in my opinion so we have to agree to differ there.

Secondly I don't see the logic in your 'they can do it in the home' argument. Yes indeed a law that prohibits an act considered detrimental to a childs well being can be enforced in public but not in the home but that doesn't negate the law. There are lots of laws that regulate the treatment of children in general. Just because parents can break these laws behind closed doors that doesn't mean they may as well be permitted break it in public?

nesf

MyKeyG wrote: »

There are two points of consideration there. Firstly any exposure to harmful substances is too much exposure in my opinion so we have to agree to differ there.

Secondly I don't see the logic in your 'they can do it in the home' argument. Yes indeed a law that prohibits an act considered detrimental to a childs well being can be enforced in public but not in the home but that doesn't negate the law. There are lots of laws that regulate the treatment of children in general. Just because parents can break these laws behind closed doors that doesn't mean they may as well be permitted break it in public?

Any exposure is a silly way to look at it if you're going to legislate since it means you must bring in legislation anywhere there's any exposure to any harmful substance which is utterly unworkable. The reality is that we must focus on what gains us the most benefit, in this case banning smoking in the home with kids (something that would make sense from a health point of view). Secondly in reality long term exposure is the problem not any exposure. Get rid of smoking in the home and it matters little if the parents smoke in the car.

The other side of this, and what I'm really complaining about, is that they are talking about banning smoking in all cars, not just cars with kids in them. That's logically the equivalent to banning all alcohol consumption to stop drink driving.

MyKeyG

nesf wrote: »

Any exposure is a silly way to look at it if you're going to legislate since it means you must bring in legislation anywhere there's any exposure to any harmful substance which is utterly unworkable. The reality is that we must focus on what gains us the most benefit, in this case banning smoking in the home with kids (something that would make sense from a health point of view). Secondly in reality long term exposure is the problem not any exposure. Get rid of smoking in the home and it matters little if the parents smoke in the car.

Yeah you make some good points. But I would still gravitate towards the proposal being misguided at best as opposed to being an issue of nanny-statism (I might have made that up but you get the drift).

demanufactured

IMO you shouldn't be allowed smoke in public full stop ....its ****ing discusting.
Keep it in your own home and nowhere else.
It annoys me to see people smoking with their kids in the car windows closed and all.

Manach

I'd disagree with the now proposed blanket smoking ban. This is State interference with private property and I'd reckon the instances of smoking related car-crashes are minumum, compared to other causes. (BTW I'm a non-smoker, and never keen on the habit but it was a free country, once)

cyclopath2001

Manach wrote: »

This is State interference with private property

Roads are public property.

Manach wrote: »

and I'd reckon the instances of smoking related car-crashes are minumum, compared to other causes. (BTW I'm a non-smoker, and never keen on the habit but it was a free country, once)

The propasal has nothing to do with crashes, the reason given is this:

It is the commonplace experience of every citizen who drives through the city and who gets stuck in a line of traffic to see children strapped into car seats in an enclosed car with one or more adults smoking in that car,”

The proposal is that deliberately subjecting children to carcenogenic agents is child abuse and where this is seen to take place in public, it should be stopped immediately.

Times are changing and behaviour that drivers could get away with in the past is no longer acceptable.

hip_priest

How about fixing the country and stop wasting time on crap like this!

MyKeyG

hip_priest wrote: »

How about fixing the country and stop wasting time on crap like this!

Wow I've not come across this statement before.:rolleyes: The government have a responsibility to address all aspects of public life and safety. The country isn't going to be fixed over night so stop yammering on like it's a snap of the finger job.

Permabear

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RandomName2

MyKeyG wrote: »

The state have plenty business protecting it's young citizens. I think you've drawn your own conclusions regarding this article. IMO it has nothing to do with a nanny state but rather addresses positive measures to protect the welfare of children and other road users.Firstly the ban is for the purposes of protecting individuals under 16 who are being exposed to harmful smoke in a confined space. I see nothing wrong with this at all.

Secondly to occupy your hands with anything other than is necessary to safely operate a motor vehicle should certainly be banned whether it be a mobile, a cigarette or a bottle of water.

If smoking is banned in cars it must logically be banned in residential buildings as well. In fact, if you were going to ban smoking in cars you might as well cut to the chase and ban smoking altogether in the state. I wouldn't support it, but at least it would be more honest!

Permabear

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nesf

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

It's easy when it's an aspect of someone else's life that you're handing over, etc.

HivemindXX

Not going to happen and even if it did it wouldn't be enforced outside a handful of incidents in the first few days for the media.

I've seen parents smoking in cars with their children. I've also seen them crack the window a fraction of an inch while doing this on cold days which presumably makes them feel better. It's bad parenting but there's a difference between child abuse and bad parenting and you can't legislate against all aspects of bad parenting so there seems little point in starting here.

Since the country is in trouble financially and smoking in cars is the current fascinatin (seemingly dragging attention away from the UHC, must be a coincidence) why not start enforcing the litter rules against the smokers who throw their still lit butts on the road. Based on my commute we could make a big dent in the deficit this way.

cavedave

cyclopath2001
The proposal is that deliberately subjecting children to carcenogenic agents is child abuse and where this is seen to take place in public, it should be stopped immediately.

What do you class as a carcenogenic agent? Sausages, petrol, pepper, chips?

Are you really going to ban sausages and chips?

Live4Ever

Personally I do think it's bad for parents to be smoking in a car with kids, unlike in the back garden etc, the car is a cramped space where smoke will linger and do harm. I would agree to a ban like this.

On the other hand a blanket ban is a fcuking disgrace. Bottom line: Whether you agree with smoking or not, nobody has the right to tell you that you can't smoke in your own private car.

It'll never happen anyway.

ei.sdraob

I am not a smoker but this is just crazy,
anyways shouldn't the government be worried about bigger issues

Whats next "telescreens" in our homes and cars? then again we do have students from Sligo who developed a system to inform the Big Nanny Cloud of your driving patterns

the_syco

nesf wrote: »

all

Where does it mention all cars, as opposed to only cars with children under the age of 16?

Also, I think they already tried to bring in the "no smoking in your house" thing a year ago. It died suddenly enough. I'd say this idea will also die.

=-=

If you're unable to drive safely without taking one hand off the steering wheel, how do you change gears? :pac:

=-=

It'll make me enjoy my smoke more :P

Permabear

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reprazant

I agree in principle on the ban when kids are in the car as, even as a smoker, I though it pretty horrible when you see a parent smoking away in the car, all windows closed and some kids in the back seat.

I can't see how it is going to be even vaguely workable though. And an all-out ban on smoking in cars is far too draconian.

Rachiee

smoking at home is not worse than smoking in a car because in the home there is more space for the smoke to go and the children to go, in a car the smoke is too contained. I dont think most parents roll down their windows and even if they do it still makes little difference.

Smokers who do smoke in car with children are thoughtlessly harming their children, although I wouldnt be apposed to a ban in cars with children I think it would be unenforcable and they are better handling the issue through education.

I would be completely apposed to an outright ban in all cars even without children thats just ridiculous

Naz_st

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

The proposal is that deliberately subjecting children to carcenogenic agents is child abuse and where this is seen to take place in public, it should be stopped immediately.

So then the next thing is making it illegal for parents to take kids out into the sunshine? Down with that sort of thing!

Permabear

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donkey balls

I'm a non smoker but have friends that do smoke who also have young children when at home both the parents go outside the house to light up, As for enforcing this new law if it ever comes in can anyone tell me how many sales reps truck/bus drivers have being prosecuted for smoking in there vehicles after all under the 2005H&S act if using a vehicle to carry out your work it's considered a place of work.
The Gardai IMO will find it impossible to uphold this law what new laws will
Be next no farting due to climate change,I think the minister should be looking at the amount of admin staff in the HSE instead and tackle that.

JustinDee

All very well banning bad parenting while in a car.

Just like the mobile phone ban in vehicles, it will not be enforced in numbers and Irish people, who as usual cannot ever be told what to do, will go ahead and continue anyway.

JustinDee

donkey balls wrote: »

As for enforcing this new law if it ever comes in can anyone tell me how many sales reps truck/bus drivers have being prosecuted for smoking in there vehicles after all under the 2005H&S act if using a vehicle to carry out your work it's considered a place of work

I hailed a cab one night. He pulled over but as I was getting in, I said 'nah'. The taxi was chock-full of smoke and absolutely reeked (I think he had just put one out). Driver tried to charge me a fare.
I just hailed another and got in that one instead.

cavedave

Naz_st

So then the next thing is making it illegal for parents to take kids out into the sunshine? Down with that sort of thing!

Lack of vitamin D also causes cancer so you would have to arrest those that don't get their kids just the right amount of sunlight

BlaasForRafa

cavedave wrote: »

What do you class as a carcenogenic agent? Sausages, petrol, pepper, chips?

Are you really going to ban sausages and chips?

Do you smoke sausages and chips in cars?

ei.sdraob

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Do you smoke sausages and chips in cars?

I eat them in car sometimes

BlaasForRafa

ei.sdraob wrote: »

I eat them in car sometimes

While stationary I hope!

Beruthiel

This law is for idiot parents only.
Any parent who smokes in the confined space of a car with children, doesn't give a toss about their kids and won't give a toss about this law.

Permabear

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Laminations

nesf wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2011/0727/1224301449234.html

This is utter nanny-state lunacy. The State has absolutely no business dictating what goes on in someone's private car like this.

I'd agree but I'd throw back the argument that was used against people (including myself) who complained that the government had no right to socialise private losses.

Well tough, we voted for them

anymore

nesf wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2011/0727/1224301449234.html

This is utter nanny-state lunacy. The State has absolutely no business dictating what goes on in someone's private car like this.

I kinda agree with you, but I dont see why I should have to subsidise someone scrapping a car and buying a new car not do I see why i have to subsidise some paye person who wants to buy a bike ! And yet as a taxpayer I have to subsidise these people ! Lets make up our minds, do we want a nanny State or not ?

Permabear

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shadowninty

As an asmathic, I cant say I disagree with this law. Any parents who smokes in front of their kids is a disgrace IMO, and are shortening their childs lifespans, and reducing quality of life.
That said I would agree with Beruthiels point

getzls

As a smoker who hates the anti-smoking crew, i'm funnily enough not objecting to this if it happened. I put the window down even if theres no one in the car never mind when my son is in the back. We all learned not to smoke in bars etc and maybe most of us now agree with it. We would get used to it too.

walshb

Are they banning it due to health reasons for the children in the car, or for safety reasons concerning driving whilst smoking? If the latter, I would agree. I heard it's down to the former. Mobile phone use is banned for safety reasons. Cigarettes are items that one holds. So, they should be banned too. Both hands on the wheel, and all that. As for the smoke aspect for children. That is just bad parenting. But, what about all the parents who smoke inside their own home. That's even worse.

thebman

walshb wrote: »

Are they banning it due to health reasons for the children in the car, or for safety reasons concerning driving whilst smoking? If the latter, I would agree. I heard it's down to the former. Mobile phone use is banned for safety reasons. Cigarettes are items that one holds. So, they should be banned too. Both hands on the wheel, and all that. As for the smoke aspect for children. That is just bad parenting. But, what about all the parents who smoke inside their own home. That's even worse.

Phone usage is banned because your having a conversation mostly and holding a hand up to your ear, obstructing vision slightly as well. Most smokers can generally smoke and pay the same level of attention as someone drinking out of a bottle so I don't think that is a major issue with smokers.

Also people text when driving and would claim they are just dialing if pulled over prior to the ban on using a phone when driving and that is more dangerous than any of the other things.

the_syco

walshb wrote: »

Both hands on the wheel, and all that.

Don't forget to ban radios, the defog button, and the clutch whilst you're at at :P

JustinDee

walshb wrote: »

Are they banning it due to health reasons for the children in the car, or for safety reasons concerning driving whilst smoking?If the latter, I would agree. I heard it's down to the former. Mobile phone use is banned for safety reasons. Cigarettes are items that one holds. So, they should be banned too. Both hands on the wheel, and all that. As for the smoke aspect for children. That is just bad parenting. But, what about all the parents who smoke inside their own home. That's even worse.

It is proposed to ban it on health grounds. If it was road safety, the Minister for Enivronment would be announcing it.

A child having to suffer smoke inhalation in a confined space such as a car is bad enough. Its more than poor and irresponsible parenting.

JustinDee

JustinDee wrote: »

A child having to suffer smoke inhalation in a confined space such as a car is bad enough. Its more than poor and irresponsible parenting.

Banning smoking in cars for everybody is not the answer

nesf

JustinDee wrote: »

A child having to suffer smoke inhalation in a confined space such as a car is bad enough.

It is far worse for that child to be exposed to it constantly at home. If the Government wanted to tackle this problem, that's where they need to start. It's unenforceable but then so is a ban on cars when you get down to it.

Name Changed

Smoking should be banned from cars. It is an unnecessary distraction, just like using a mobile phone when driving. There is no difference between the two of them. I've seen plenty of people do stupid things in cars because they were too busy smoking.