Christchurch Bells

Chardee MacDennis

Right, I work across from Christchurch and they seem to have started allowing people ring the church bells all day - this is understandably driving myself and my co-workers mad, as we have to close all the windows to even half keep the sound out and its quite warm then.

do i have legal grounds to make a complaint and get this stopped under section 108 of the Environmental Protection Agency Act, 1992

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1992/en/act/pub/0007/sec0108.html#zza7y1992s108

any help would be great thanks!

drunkmonkey

You shouldn't hear them, bells ring across from me every hour on the hour from where I work and I never hear them. Granted it's not christchurch but the same thing.
If it annoys you that's probably why your still hearing it, forget about it and you won't even notice it anymore. It's a psychological thing.

Chardee MacDennis

it's absolutely not a psychological thing, it is very loud.

these things dont normally annoy me but its very frustrating, i'll get the decibels tomorrow and see how loud it gets. also the fact its idiot normal people so there is no rhythm to the bells just frantic ringing..

Sid_Justice

is this a tourist thing? anyone can go up and ring the bell?

axer

Sid_Justice wrote: »

is this a tourist thing? anyone can go up and ring the bell?

Yes, they were on the radio about it - cant remember when but a week or two ago. They have started a tour that allows people to ring the bell. They said no complaints were received so they said they think it only adds to the niceness of the area - or something like that.

OP make a complaint to Christ Church themselves and the local council's environment officer.

johnfás

The bells at Christchurch and St Patrick's are fantastic...

Chardee MacDennis

johnfás wrote: »

The bells at Christchurch and St Patrick's are fantastic...

great contribution, thanks...

billysweeney

Hi... I live across the road from the cathedral and i am sick to death of those bells. Can anyone tell me why they ring so often and what they ring for? Is it a call to prayer for the congregation? If so, why should so many other people who live and work in the vicinity of the building have to be put out to such a degree when it seems that only a small handful of people attend services there. If it is for the benefit of the bell ringing club themselves, then surely this is a ludicrous situation.. someones hobby destroying the relative peace of mind of others in what is a heavily residential area.
I have complained to both the city council and the Cathedral and have not received a reply from either. Anyone else who feels that the needs and wants of a small community of minority religious folk, in what is a 21st century secular city, should not cause disturbance to many others, feel free to PM me with a view to organizing a complaint. Tradition as an excuse doesn't cut it here...

magento

billysweeney wrote: »

Hi... I live across the road from the cathedral and i am sick to death of those bells. Can anyone tell me why they ring so often and what they ring for? Is it a call to prayer for the congregation? If so, why should so many other people who live and work in the vicinity of the building have to be put out to such a degree when it seems that only a small handful of people attend services there. If it is for the benefit of the bell ringing club themselves, then surely this is a ludicrous situation.. someones hobby destroying the relative peace of mind of others in what is a heavily residential area.
I have complained to both the city council and the Cathedral and have not received a reply from either. Anyone else who feels that the needs and wants of a small community of minority religious folk, in what is a 21st century secular city, should not cause disturbance to many others, feel free to PM me with a view to organizing a complaint. Tradition as an excuse doesn't cut it here...

a small community of minority religious folk ? you realise your in ireland ? think you will find its a catholic country.over a million people for popes visit is a bit more than a minority

billysweeney

magento wrote: »

a small community of minority religious folk ? you realise your in ireland ? think you will find its a catholic country.over a million people for popes visit is a bit more than a minority

For starters, it may have escaped your notice, but Christchurch is not a catholic church. Even if it was... how many practicing catholics do you think live within the area that the bells affect? It is an area with a very mixed population and I wouldn't think too many go to mas every day, so even if it was a catholic church, which it isn't, would that give themthe right to make so much noise????
The area has a large muslim community. Do you think they should be allowed to broadcast call to prayer several times a day?? Lets face it.. until any religious folk can prove in a court of law that god exists and they are doing their duty to him , then i think its about time they kept the bloody noise down. To reiterate--- its a protestant church with literally a handful of attendess, go and see for yourself if you don't believe me..

magento

have you lived across from the church all your life ?

Procrastastudy

Paulw

billysweeney wrote: »

For starters, it may have escaped your notice, but Christchurch is not a catholic church.

Actually, the pope still considers it to be a catholic cathedral, the same as St Patrick's, which is currently why Dublin has no catholic cathedral. Not that that has anything to do with the noise, but it's an interesting fact.

billysweeney wrote: »

Lets face it.. until any religious folk can prove in a court of law that god exists and they are doing their duty to him , then i think its about time they kept the bloody noise down.

In a court, where they swear on a bible (in the vast majority of cases)? :rolleyes:

The state, and the courts recognise god.

You need to take your complaints to the Christchurch, Dublin city council, your local counsillors, local TDs and, if ultimately needed, you could try taking court action.

Posting on boards will not get much done.

magento

how often do bells ring ? would have thought you would get used to it after a while

billysweeney

That is interesting about the pope considering it catholic, in a mildly interesting factoid kind of way!:)
My reason for posting on boards was to contact others who feel the same, as the more that residents complain, the more likely something might be done to mitigate the noise to some degree, and I agree that there is a need to progress the complaints, however I do feel that there is 'strength in numbers' so to speak!
As regards living in Christchurch all my life, I of course see the point you are trying to make. No, I have not lived here all my life. I know you are wondering, as suggested by your previous question asking did I know i was in Ireland, so I can tell you that I am Irish, born and bred. I live in Christchurch now, and if it was as simple as moving somewhere further away from the noise then I probably would just do that. However, the world I live in, the real world, often isn't a very simple place. I cannot afford to move, and it is not possible at the moment.

billysweeney

magento wrote: »

how often do bells ring ? would have thought you would get used to it after a while

To be honest I could get used to them if it was just the bells chiming the hour. I lived right under the spire of a catholic church for years when I was younger and i got used to it.. even getting woken up on sunday mornings with a raging hangover! What bothers me here is that the noise coming from the cathedral seems so random.. it can go on for hours or seem to be at any time of day, any day of the week. It can go on for 20 mins then stop, and restart after a while.. it can be the whole hog or just one bell ringing continuously. It means that apart from no chance of a lie in on sundays, there is little chance of getting a few hours of uninterrupted peace and quiet any day of the week I am in the apartment. If it was regular and predictable the mind would habituate to it and not notice it as such. I really am of the opinion that most of it is for the benefit of the campanologists club.. and I really think that is not on.
I'm not religious, but I could put up with some amount of it if it was genuinely important to people, but to have to listen to that just so that a really tiny group of people can get their jollies just isn't on.

magento

its a tourist attraction that has been there hundreds of years,doubt anything will change,have you double glazed windows ? it will still be there long after were gone

billysweeney

magento wrote: »

its a tourist attraction that has been there hundreds of years,doubt anything will change,have you double glazed windows ? it will still be there long after were gone

Yeah its been there a long time alright, but I'd like to think society has moved on a little from a situation where churchs can do what they want. If I went out and banged two pieces of metal together like that I'd get locked up:)

I really wouldn't mind it in moderation but the way it is they are just taking the mickey, and at the end of the day, every one else has to abide by legislationre noise and nuisance so why should't they?

CIARAN_BOYLE

billysweeney wrote: »

To be honest I could get used to them if it was just the bells chiming the hour. I lived right under the spire of a catholic church for years when I was younger and i got used to it.. even getting woken up on sunday mornings with a raging hangover! What bothers me here is that the noise coming from the cathedral seems so random.. it can go on for hours or seem to be at any time of day, any day of the week. It can go on for 20 mins then stop, and restart after a while.. it can be the whole hog or just one bell ringing continuously. It means that apart from no chance of a lie in on sundays, there is little chance of getting a few hours of uninterrupted peace and quiet any day of the week I am in the apartment. If it was regular and predictable the mind would habituate to it and not notice it as such. I really am of the opinion that most of it is for the benefit of the campanologists club.. and I really think that is not on.
I'm not religious, but I could put up with some amount of it if it was genuinely important to people, but to have to listen to that just so that a really tiny group of people can get their jollies just isn't on.

I'm pretty sure that tourists can ring the bells as part of their tour of the cathederal

billysweeney

They can, at least at certain times, which is pretty crazy and nothing can justify that!

magento

tourist incomes worth more than some locals complaining about noise,dont expect anything to be done

billysweeney

magento wrote: »

tourist incomes worth more than some locals complaining about noise,dont expect anything to be done

Why don't they build a mock up, to give people the experience without the attending hassle? After all, they are charging people 4 euro to pull on a bit of old rope:D

magento

not been funny but it seems you moved to christchurch from somewhere else.did you expect no bells ? like moving to beside airport then getting upset with noise of planes

billysweeney

I expected bells alright, as I said, I lived closer to a church for years. what I didn't expect was a church that was using its status as a religious institution to make money by allowing people to make a god awful racket, and also to house a club for people with a bell fetish, who like to get together and have an aul ding dong for a few hours a few times a week!

magento

think you will find churches are where bells usually are,not a huge shock to find they ring

Pat Mustard

magento wrote: »

not been funny but it seems you moved to christchurch from somewhere else.did you expect no bells ?

If you read the OP correctly, his complaint is not about bells per se, but that there has been a significant increase in the regularity of the noise:

BastardPrince wrote: »

they seem to have started allowing people ring the church bells all day

magento wrote: »

like moving to beside airport then getting upset with noise of planes

It's more like moving beside Farranfore Airport and putting up with that noise, but then getting upset when it suddenly manages to produce the noise of Heathrow instead.

OP, I would suggest that you make a written complaint to Dublin City Council here, concerning increased regularity of the noise.

Here is a guide to the law from 2004, but it may give you some idea.

Also, see courts.ie links here and here.

Finally, I am going to mention the law of nuisance, but I'll leave it at that as matters may resolve before it comes to prospective action along those lines.

Manach

Unless there had been significantly proven increase in volume, a possible defence could be freedom of expression? AFAIR European jurisdications have recognised that the generation of such a cultural expression in a traditional manner might be covered in such a fashion.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Manach wrote: »

Unless there had been significantly proven increase in volume, a possible defence could be freedom of expression? AFAIR European jurisdications have recognised that the generation of such a cultural expression in a traditional manner might be covered in such a fashion.

Its a tradition for church bells to ring to call people to services or to pray the angelus or whatever and I don't think any posters have problems with this.

I think the problems are about people touring the church and paying to pull a rope and make the bells ring. Thats not traditional.

Thats only my opinion though

monkeypants

They have something like nineteen bells in that bell tower.

johnnyskeleton

billysweeney wrote: »

Hi... I live across the road from the cathedral and i am sick to death of those bells. Can anyone tell me why they ring so often and what they ring for? Is it a call to prayer for the congregation?

In the 17th century, Vienna was under siege by the Ottomans and the Austro-Hungarian forces in the city were severely undermanned and waiting for reinforcements. As the city could fall at any minute they started to ring the church bells on the hour every hour to show that the city was still in Christian hands. Logically, that's why Christchurch bells can be heard over dublin city in the small hours.

BostonB

Manach wrote: »

Unless there had been significantly proven increase in volume, a possible defence could be freedom of expression? AFAIR European jurisdications have recognised that the generation of such a cultural expression in a traditional manner might be covered in such a fashion.

The problem is an increase in Frequency, no?

nuac

I find the noise of traffic, sirens, building works, late night revellers shouting and banging doors and puking on the street all very annoying,

Will a local authority stop all this near where I live?

billysweeney

@nuac.. quite frankly I find that facetious and childish.. thank you for your contribution!

Pat Mustard

nuac wrote: »

I find the noise of traffic, sirens, building works, late night revellers shouting and banging doors and puking on the street all very annoying,

Will a local authority stop all this near where I live?

No, but Dublin City Council investigates complaints relating to building works. Everything else that you mentioned does not fall within their remit.

Not sure of your local authority.

kapa

Some people just look for an excuse to complain about anything at all. Get a Life billysweeney

Procrastastudy

Where the hell is krd these days. Surely this is the work of some fat middle class paddys?

Pat Mustard

krd got banned afaik.

BostonB

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/environment/environmental_protection/noise_regulations.html

Probably an idea to go talk to whom ever is in charge of the bells at CC.

Bells at regular intervals would be expected. But tourist bell ringing classes is a bit much.

billysweeney

kapa wrote: »

Some people just look for an excuse to complain about anything at all. Get a Life billysweeney

You try living beside it... but wait, let me guess.. you live in a foghorn, under a siren which is beside a runway, and you don't complain?

Procrastastudy

The Mustard wrote: »

krd got banned afaik.

Oh no. Permanently?

Pat Mustard

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Oh no. Permanently?

I hope not!

I'm waiting for the next instalment of Apocalypse Now: Ireland, with The Doors bass notes fading into the background as the gunships motor in over the beach to Ride of the Valkyries.

Or maybe something more gothic what with the bells and all...

Procrastastudy

OP I've been having a bit of fun with you but actually I do sympathise (a tiny bit). Have you approached CCC and asked them who you might write to? Have you spoken to any neighbours?

P_1

Theres a big enough thread on it over on the Dublin City forum
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056732549

It seems they are due to fit dampeners to the bells but the timeframe for them doing that seems to be expanding.

Having lived in that neck of the woods I know how they can be a bit irritating (Sunday morning hangovers spring to mind) at times.

Not speaking in a legal sense, but getting a set of net curtains or something similar to help dampen the sound of the bells in your apartment or something similarly practical might well be your best bet.

billysweeney

Net curtains may well be along the right lines.. Might try some of that foiled insulation board and put it up in the window space at night, I don't think its too expensive..