North and South Tipperary county councils to be merged

mikep

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0726/cabinet.html

A cabinet decision will result in the two county councils in tipperary being merged.

Makes sense to me.

CrowdedHouse

NEVER !!

apoeiguq3094y

I'm sure big phil thinks its a great idea, but are they actually going to get rid of the people that will no longer be needed? no they aren't because you can't fire a public servant.

So we will pay for a rebranding of all stationery etc, but no savings will be had.

Cat Melodeon

Am I right in thinking that S. Tipp Co.Co. has only an Acting Manager - would this mean they would automatically have to cede the position to the N Tipp Manager?

Where the administrative capital be Clonmel or Nenagh or will a new one be created in Mid-Tipp at great expense - maybe Cashel or Thurles?

While operational staff numbers probably won't be affected, surely half of the admin/management positions will have to go? Those numbers won't be achieved through retirements or voluntary redundancies.

It's a sensible idea but it's going to be a mess.

JabbaTheHut

Hard to see this happen without them making an expensive balls of it.

Vizzy

The first that any of the staff heard of this was when they heard it on the radio yesterday.
You would have thought that the Minister would at least have given a heads up to the Co Manager so that the staff could be told in advance of the general public.
The merger is not goin to happen until 2014 but I assume that there will be arrangements made between then and now so that it can actually happen in 2014.
Major confusion amongst staff at the moment as nobody knows if the people in Clonmel will be going to Nenagh or vice versa.

Amtmann

A sensible decision in my opinion. This was proposed in the MacArthy Report. I hope there'll be no unseemly bickering over the administrative capital; it's largely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things anyway. So, no more TN and TS registration plates by 2014? What'll it be: TY?

Tremelo

Tremelo wrote: »

A sensible decision in my opinion. This was proposed in the MacArthy Report. I hope there'll be no unseemly bickering over the administrative capital; it's largely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things anyway. So, no more TN and TS registration plates by 2014? What'll it be: TY?

Perhaps just T as we will be the only county in the Republic of Ireland that begins with T.
The re-branding will cost money as well as will the relocation to a more convenient town where the county seat will be placed. Cashel or Thurles probably the most likely.
Will the amount of County Councillors be cut or will the county be repartitioned in terms of local and general elections?

I dont take the view of Sean Lonergan that the county is too big not to be split. Sure Cork has one county council serving 400k people and a far bigger area. Same with Galway. Granted both these have City councils too but thats irrelevant as we dont have any cities in Tipp.

jprboy

Deleted User wrote: »

Perhaps just T as we will be the only county in the Republic of Ireland that begins with T.

Sligo's the only county beginning with S and reg is SO.

So, , probably TY as suggested earlier.

tippspur

Deleted User wrote: »

Perhaps just T as we will be the only county in the Republic of Ireland that begins with T.
The re-branding will cost money as well as will the relocation to a more convenient town where the county seat will be placed. Cashel or Thurles probably the most likely.
Will the amount of County Councillors be cut or will the county be repartitioned in terms of local and general elections?

I dont take the view of Sean Lonergan that the county is too big not to be split. Sure Cork has one county council serving 400k people and a far bigger area. Same with Galway. Granted both these have City councils too but thats irrelevant as we dont have any cities in Tipp.

County Hall in Clonmel is a relatively new building and I can't see them spending millions on a new one in Cashel or Thurles. I'd say Clonmel will remain as the main center for the County.

jprboy

jprboy wrote: »

Sligo's the only county beginning with S and reg is SO.

So, , probably TY as suggested earlier.

True but Cork is one of 4 counties that begin with C yet get away with using simply C.

Personally at a push i think TP would be better then TY. I dunno just me i guess.

tippspur

tippspur wrote: »

County Hall in Clonmel is a relatively new building and I can't see them spending millions on a new one in Cashel or Thurles. I'd say Clonmel will remain as the main center for the County.

Hypothetically speaking, I don't think the good old Councillors from lets say Lorrha up North would fancy driving all the way down to the South to Clonmel for the meetings or vice versa the southerners driving up from say Ballyporeen to Nenagh.
That's an instant problem there and given the fact this new Tipperary County council would probably have to pay extra travel expenses to those making the long trips. Would it be cheaper to relocate in the long term maybe?

Amtmann

Article from the Nationalist:

All Tipperary to be served by single Co. Council • Minister announces North and South merger

Published on Wednesday 27 July 2011 09:31

Aileen Hahesy

South Tipperary and North Tipperary Co. Councils are to be amalgamated at the next local elections in three years time as part of the Government’s programme of cost saving local government reforms, Environment & Local Government Minister Phil Hogan has announced,.

The Minister issued a statement yesterday (Tuesday) revealing that a unified Co. Council for Tipperary will come into effect from the 2014 local elections, replacing the existing North and South Tipperary Co. Councils.

The merger will result in a reduction in the number of county councillors, which currently stands at 47 between the two local authorities, and is widely expected to lead to more local authority job cuts in north and south Tipperary.

It will also lead to the rationalisation of County Development Boards, Joint Policing Committees and any other local authority linked bodies in the north and south of the county.

The new joint local authority will serve a significantly increased population of 159,000 people, compared with 70,219 in North Tipperary Co. Council and 88,433 in South Tipperary Co. Council.

Minister Hogan said the merger would achieve greater savings both through the generation of scale economies and efficiencies and the removal of duplication, with the integration of administrations and service delivery.

He claimed that the merger should enable commercial rates in North Tipperary, which are currently €60.13 to be reduced to the South Tipperary level of E56.77, which it is estimated will cost in the region of €389,000.

Mr Hogan said the rationale for unifying the two council should also bring about stronger, more cohesive local government that is better positioned to promote the interests of the county and contribute to job creation and the recovery effort generally.

“A unified local authority, following 173 years of separation, will serve an increased population, should have greater scale, strength, assets and capacity to help meet challenges arising and to promote the economic and social development of the county as a whole”, commented Mr. Hogan.

A review of local electoral areas across South and North Tipperary will take place in 2012 for the purpose of the elections to the new unified county council in 2014.

An implementation group will be set up to oversee the practical work of reorganising the local government structures in the county.

Minister Hogan indicated that he would announce further details of the implementation arrangements in September.

North and South Tipperary were among the authorities for which the 2010 Local Government Efficiency Review Group report recommended joint management arrangements.

The decision to merge the two Co. Tipperary local authorities follows the recent announcement of the merger of Limerick City and County Councils.

Minister Hogan said the mergers were the most significant change in the structure of local government for many years and were among the early actions in a wider programme of local government reform and development he will be developing over the coming months.

There has been a mixed reaction among South Tipperary politicians to the news.

Fianna Fail Cllr. Sean McCarthy said he wasn’t totally surprised at the announcement of the amalgamation and believes there’s “a degree of logic” in the proposal.

While he was sure there would be a lot of opposition to the move, the veteran Fianna Fail councillor said local government had to be re-structured to make it more efficient and cost effective.

“We’re very proud of what we’ve achieved in South Tipperary and if there is to be any amalgamation I hope the high standards that we set in South Tipperary wouldn’t be in any way compromised”, he stated.

“Our staff in South Tipperary are absolutely outstanding and I would hate if we lost any of them. They’re an example to other counties”, he said.

He speculated that the merger of the councils would probably mean a reduction in the number of Councillors. There would also be a question of where the administrative headquarters for the entire county would be located, but Cllr. McCarthy was sure these were problems that could be ironed out.

Reduced administrative costs might mean there would be room for manoeuvre for a possible reduction in rates, but he didn’t want to raise false promises in that regard.

Labour Cllr Sean Lonergan from Cahir, however, said he was totally against the merger because of the large geographical size of North and South Tipperary. He pointed out that South Tipperary was larger than many counties and it will mean much larger electoral areas covered by less councillors.

He also doesn’t believe the merger will save much money. He questioned whether a new county hall would have to be built and pointed out that councillors will have to travel further distances to meetings and for council business, which will incur expenses.

Cllr Lonergan said it would also mean more local authority job losses on top of what the job cuts that had already taken place, which he believed will impact on services to the public.

Fine Gael TD Tom Hayes has welcomed the news that both Tipperary County Councils are to be amalgamated prior to the 2014 local elections.

“I welcome the decision by the Minister to bring together the County Councils here in Tipperary. Although we have yet to see some of the details of this plan, I am optimistic that there are benefits for all concerned,” he told The Nationalist.

“The integration of key services in both North and South Tipperary will ensure significant savings in future budgets. It is my belief that these savings can and should be used to reduce the rates paid by the retail sector.”

“Although there are certainly details to be teased out, I am hopeful that this merger will result in the provision of an enhanced local authority and a more prosperous and successful Tipperary” he concluded.

http://www.nationalist.ie/news/local/all_tipperary_to_be_served_by_single_co_council_minister_announces_north_and_south_merger_1_2903601

Cat Melodeon

Deleted User wrote: »

Hypothetically speaking, I don't think the good old Councillors from lets say Lorrha up North would fancy driving all the way down to the South to Clonmel for the meetings or vice versa the southerners driving up from say Ballyporeen to Nenagh.
That's an instant problem there and given the fact this new Tipperary County council would probably have to pay extra travel expenses to those making the long trips. Would it be cheaper to relocate in the long term maybe?

Could they not just catch up with the rest of the world and use Skype or Google Hangouts for their meetings? Absolutely no need for them to be trekking across the county for face-to-face meetings when they could be doing it online for next to nothing.

Cat Melodeon

Cat Melodeon wrote: »

Could they not just catch up with the rest of the world and use Skype or Google Hangouts for their meetings? Absolutely no need for them to be trekking across the county for face-to-face meetings when they could be doing it online for next to nothing.

dont forget the meetings are held in a sort of parliamentary fashion not too unlike the dail so skype, etc may not be ideal for every situation.

mikemac

Is this actually going to save any money though?
If you merge the two authorities then there are staff who are no longer needed but will we even see any redundancies?
Will there be administrators who are not needed but get kept on anyway? I think so

tippspur wrote: »

County Hall in Clonmel is a relatively new building

Council offices in Nenagh costs millions and are very modern, less then a decade old.

On an offtopic note, where is the center of Tipperary? I'm not saying build new offices, I'm just wondering

Halfshaft

Thurles is the central town in the county.

Vizzy

Heard a rumour today that Lowry is lobbying hard to have the buildings included as part of the "Las Vegas" venture.

archtech

I would image we will see an irish solution to the problem of where there will be two "headquarters", one in Nenagh and one in Clonmel. Council meetings will properly alternate.

In terms of Civic Offices, Nenagh's offices are far more impressive and fitting to be honest, if anything I would say the offices in Clonmel are/were over crowded and in need of some refurbishment (windows).

What will happen is there will be area offices, for dealing with housing, motor tax etc. By then hopefully all planning applications will be made on line so trips to the planing office will be few and far between.

In terms of administrative staff, allowing for natural wastage, (retirements etc), come 2014 I don't think there will be a huge surplus, maybe some redeployments within different departments. At Senior Management level there maybe a surplus in this area, in the short to medium term.