Am I being overcharged for cm?

ber123

Hi,

Can someone advise me pleasee!
I've just started (today) sending my 4-yr old daughter to a childminder from 11-5, 3 days a week. She wants to charge 7euros per hour. This is 42 euros for 6 hours, not even a full day, seems a lot. what do you think? Advice really appreciated. I live near Bray/Greystones.
Thanks in advance!

Moonbeam

Yes,that is a lot.

For that she would want to be fully qualified,fully insured and providing good meals.

30 would sound reasonable for those hours.

Does she mind other kids too?

ber123

Thanks for that. Yes, she is fully qualified and minds 2 other children, who are both siblings. She does provide meals, but I still feel uncomfortable paying this much. I feel like I need to say that to her, but I wonder am I being unreasonable then...

Moonbeam

no especially not if she minds 2 other kids too.
Maybe she charges the other mother that for both kids?

Find out the creche rates for your area and find out what other people are paying their child minders.

Did you not agree a rate in advance?

catch me if you can

Thats too much. Is she paying tax on that?

i pay 125 for a full week. 8-4.30 monday to friday. but im in co clare.
its so unfair that people near dublin are paying these crazy fees.
childcare fees should be trhe same countrywide and exactly make it worthwhile for mothers to return to work.

any childminders out there charging 42 euro for 6 hours work should hang heads in shame.

emmeim

yes that seems like a lot. I pay 35 euro a day, 8.30 - 5.30 but I provide all food and meals.

smileyeyes

yes, that definitely sounds too expensive to me also!:eek:

I was paying €30.00 per day(private creche), which was from 8am to 5:45pm. This also included all meals except morning snack.

Recently I moved my children to a "Community Based Childcare Facility" and as I have a full medical card, I now only pay €16.00 per day (9am to 5:45pm). This includes all meals including morning snack. This facility is subsidised by the Government. I do not live near your area but maybe there is a facility like this in your area??

Hope this helps.

Elle Collins

I think you're blessed by the hand of God OP. I wouldn't mind anyone's kids for that kind of money - you'd need to put a few zeros on the end of that!

Fittle

I don't understand why, on the day you begin this arrangment, you are asking for advice on the cost Surely you agreed this in advance?

I pay 100pw for afterschool care. To be honest, if I had more, I'd pay it. It works out at 20euro per day for someone to collect my son, feed him, homework etc until I get home from work. She is not a registered minder etc, but a great neighbour and to be honest, I think it costs more per day to have your dog minded in kennels in Dublin, and I am often embarrassed handing her the money I pay, considering I am entrusting her with my most precious posession everyday.

As the saying goes - pay peanuts and you get monkeys.

LadyHeart

smileyeyes wrote: »

yes, that definitely sounds too expensive to me also!:eek:

I was paying €30.00 per day(private creche), which was from 8am to 5:45pm. This also included all meals except morning snack.

Recently I moved my children to a "Community Based Childcare Facility" and as I have a full medical card, I now only pay €16.00 per day (9am to 5:45pm). This includes all meals including morning snack. This facility is subsidised by the Government. I do not live near your area but maybe there is a facility like this in your area??

Hope this helps.

Sorry to hijack the thread but do you know where I could get details of the community childcare? I was looking online but can't really see any. Am back in college in September and creche fees killed me last year as I'm not working

Mountjoy Mugger

LadyHeart wrote: »

Sorry to hijack the thread but do you know where I could get details of the community childcare? I was looking online but can't really see any. Am back in college in September and creche fees killed me last year as I'm not working

Have a look here, to get you started.

smileyeyes

LadyHeart wrote: »

Sorry to hijack the thread but do you know where I could get details of the community childcare? I was looking online but can't really see any. Am back in college in September and creche fees killed me last year as I'm not working

Hi Ladyheart, I know how expensive creche fees can be!

Mountjoy mugger has posted the link where I got my original information from!! I then called into the community based childare facility and I was soooooo impressed by the facility and the staff:D My children (6 & 20mths) will be there nearly 4 weeks now and they both absolutely love it! When my son returns to school at the end of August, the after-school cost for him will be €6.00 per day and that includes a hot meal and his homework will be done when I collect him.

I hope this helps and best of luck!!;)

ash23

I used to pay €25 a day the year before my daughter started school and now that she's in school it's €15 per day and €20 for full days.
I think €40 is extortionate, even for Dublin. I don't buy into the theory that we shouldn't question the cost of childcare. There are many capable and competitively priced childcare options out there, especially now that so many people are out of work and keeping their kids at home.
I also don't think that going for a cheaper option means you care less about your kids or you are getting a lower standard of care. Some places are overpriced and so long as you do your research and check the place/person out thoroughly, then there is no reason not to accept a cheaper childcare option over a more expensive one.
Don't feel bad for wating to get the best value for money. The childminder is providing a service after all.

smileyeyes

ash23 wrote: »

I used to pay €25 a day the year before my daughter started school and now that she's in school it's €15 per day and €20 for full days.
I think €40 is extortionate, even for Dublin. I don't buy into the theory that we shouldn't question the cost of childcare. There are many capable and competitively priced childcare options out there, especially now that so many people are out of work and keeping their kids at home.
I also don't think that going for a cheaper option means you care less about your kids or you are getting a lower standard of care. Some places are overpriced and so long as you do your research and check the place/person out thoroughly, then there is no reason not to accept a cheaper childcare option over a more expensive one.
Don't feel bad for wating to get the best value for money. The childminder is providing a service after all.

Well said ash23....:)

Fittle

ash23 wrote: »

I
I also don't think that going for a cheaper option means you care less about your kids or you are getting a lower standard of care.

I've worked in childcare years ago, and there is a massive difference in the care your child can receive depending on what you pay. I'm not saying that the more expensive creches are better than the community creches (my own son was in a community creche for 3yrs and very happy) but I've seen how childminders care for children when they are being paid a pittance....compared to someone else who is being paid a decent wage.
Looking after someone elses child is a massive responsibility and I think that the OP should have questioned the costs she'd incur before yesterday!

ash23

Fittle wrote: »

I've worked in childcare years ago, and there is a massive difference in the care your child can receive depending on what you pay.

I disagree. We moved around a lot and checked and inspected many creches. Some were more expensive than others and the care wasn't as good.
Some childminders have a child in with their own and charge less, some are full time nannies and charge more.
Some do childminding for some extra cash and some do it as their sole source of income.

I viewed 4 creches in my current hometown. The dearer one was a kip but as it had been the only one for a long time they felt they could charge what they wanted. The newer creche was purpose built and everyone had their qualifications and garda vetting, all new equiptment etc and was cheaper than the older creche as it was trying to be more competitive.

Many of the "up market" creches are badly run with high staff turn over and high costs. Many of the smaller, more homely options are cheaper.
It's all personal preference but it's irritating when people imply that because you are cost conscious or being savvy that you are somehow letting your child be cared for in sub standard conditions. it's not set in stone that cheaper = worse. My childcare at the moment is cheaper than it has been in years and my daughter is much happier.

I agree that the OP should have queried the costs but don't put her down for wanting to find the best option for her childcare, including the best cost option.

Fittle

ash23 wrote: »

I disagree.

Look, I'm not getting personal with you or your childminding arrangements so I don't know why you are on the defensive here. I'm just telling you that I've seen first hand the level of care offered by a minder is is getting 4euro an hour and another one who's getting 8euro an hour (I'm talking specifically about minders here, not creches, which is what the OP is referring to). In the 4euro an hour minders house, the child got chips & nuggets every day with little or no interaction from the minder because (her words) 'they're paying a pittance'.......In the 8euro an hour minders house the child got fruit, veg, arts, crafts etc. I worked in the industry for a few years back in the day and I've seen first hand minders who 'value' their children based on the wage the parents are providing for them.

I've also seen amazing minders who become like parents to children, no matter what the cost involved - these are the minders we all aspire to have.

Some minders approach minding kids as a business solely, pure and simple and have little or no attachment to the children and are mainly in the job to earn a wage - I'm not saying that's right or wrong - and others provide wonderful care for the kids, no matter what their wage.

ash23

Fittle wrote: »

Look, I'm not getting personal with you or your childminding arrangements so I don't know why you are on the defensive here. I'm just telling you that I've seen first hand the level of care offered by a minder is is getting 4euro an hour and another one who's getting 8euro an hour (I'm talking specifically about minders here, not creches, which is what the OP is referring to). In the 4euro an hour minders house, the child got chips & nuggets every day with little or no interaction from the minder because (her words) 'they're paying a pittance'.......In the 8euro an hour minders house the child got fruit, veg, arts, crafts etc. I worked in the industry for a few years back in the day and I've seen first hand minders who 'value' their children based on the wage the parents are providing for them.

I've also seen amazing minders who become like parents to children, no matter what the cost involved - these are the minders we all aspire to have.

Some minders approach minding kids as a business solely, pure and simple and have little or no attachment to the children and are mainly in the job to earn a wage - I'm not saying that's right or wrong - and others provide wonderful care for the kids, no matter what their wage.

I'm on the defensive because you have said that cheaper childcare is worse childcare. You have said if you pay less then the child gets a poorer quality of care.
Any parent will get annoyed at someone telling them that they are giving their children a lesser standard of care.
I am allowed to disagree with you. i don't think we as parents should blindly hand over more and more money in the hope that the more we pay the better our children are looked after.
The OP is not wrong to be cost conscious. By paying less it doesn't mean she is choosing a worse form of care for her child or that we should all aspire to pay as much as possible for our childcare.
It's a bit silly to be saying to people that the more they pay the better their kids will be looked after. There are far more considerations to makewhen choosing childcare than cost alone.

Your experience of €4 minders may be chips and nuggets and no interaction but you cannot tar every single childminder out there with the same brush. There are many minders on €4 per hour who take fantastic care of the children they mind and you're insulting both parents and childminders with the limited experiences you've had which, as I've said, are completely different to what I have experienced and I wouldn't want any parent feeling that their kids are at a disadvantage because the parent can only afford to pay €4 per hour.
I know many childminders (my own included) who are on less than €8 and feed and care for the children and in whose care the children are perfectly happy and well looked after.

Fittle

I'm not insulting anyone. If you would re-read my posts I said it happens. I also said that there are minders who give great care, no matter what the cost. I pay my own minder less than 8euro an hour and am also very happy with her. I'm not arguing about this, I'm just saying what I saw in the childminding 'industry' while I worked there. Over and out.

Eyeore

I mind two children who are siblings for 38hrs a week for €200. Yea its cheap but that doesnt mean I dont care properly for them. We have a great routine, they are very happy here and I would be very insulted if someone though I didnt care for them properly because I dont charge a fortune.
OP I think that is a bit expensive alright, if you are going to discuss it with her I'd do it now rather than leaving it any longer. Good luck!

ash23

Fittle wrote: »

I'm not insulting anyone. If you would re-read my posts I said it happens. I also said that there are minders who give great care, no matter what the cost. I pay my own minder less than 8euro an hour and am also very happy with her. I'm not arguing about this, I'm just saying what I saw in the childminding 'industry' while I worked there. Over and out.

Of course it happens. And it also happens that expensive childminders treat kids badly. Hence why I keep saying cost is not the only thing to consider when choosing childcare.

I did read your posts and it was only your last post that you said that some childminders give good care no matter the cost. Prior to that you made a general statement about all childcare such as

As the saying goes - pay peanuts and you get monkeys.

and

I've worked in childcare years ago, and there is a massive difference in the care your child can receive depending on what you pay. ......but I've seen how childminders care for children when they are being paid a pittance....compared to someone else who is being paid a decent wage.

If you make general comments about other peoples childcare choices then they will take issue with it and disagree.
I'm not arguing about it, merely disagreeing with some of the comments posted about childcare cost and standards and my own experiences with the numerous creches and childminders I am familiar with.

Fittle

ash23 wrote: »

I'm not arguing about it, merely disagreeing with some of the comments posted about childcare cost and standards and my own experiences with the numerous creches and childminders I am familiar with.

I've also had experiences with creches and childminders, and worked in the industry before I ever had a child. I am not insulting anyone. I am speaking of my own experiences and pointing out that if you pay a minimal amount to have someone mind your child, the child may not be cared for to the level they deserve. MAY not. Please don't go picking at my every word.

ash23

Fittle wrote: »

I've also had experiences with creches and childminders, and worked in the industry before I ever had a child. I am not insulting anyone. I am speaking of my own experiences and pointing out that if you pay a minimal amount to have someone mind your child, the child may not be cared for to the level they deserve. MAY not. Please don't go picking at my every word.

The "may not" was all I was looking for.

Fittle

Get over yourself - I'm not posting comments to keep you happy:rolleyes:

Moonbeam

*mod note*

Ladies please keep the thread on topic.

catch me if you can

Fittle wrote: »

I'm just telling you that I've seen first hand the level of care offered by a minder is is getting 4euro an hour and another one who's getting 8euro an hour (I'm talking specifically about minders here, not creches, which is what the OP is referring to). .

this is complete crap. so basically your saying if you were minding 2 kids nd one was paying you 8 euro, and the other 4 euro. you would treat the 8 euro child better?
people that have a true vocation or childcare are not just in it or the money.
if i thought a childminder would treat a child better according to the cash they recieved i would report them.

LegacyUser

catch me if you can wrote: »

this is complete crap. so basically your saying if you were minding 2 kids nd one was paying you 8 euro, and the other 4 euro. you would treat the 8 euro child better?
people that have a true vocation or childcare are not just in it or the money.
if i thought a childminder would treat a child better according to the cash they recieved i would report them.

Why wud u think its crap? Not everyone who is in childcare has a true vocation - alot of women do it to make ends meet,minding friends or neighbours children particularly in this economy. I know a few people who mind neighbours kids and they don't love kids -they are doingit to pay their bills.

Fighting Irish

catch me if you can wrote: »

Thats too much. Is she paying tax on that?

i pay 125 for a full week. 8-4.30 monday to friday. but im in co clare.
its so unfair that people near dublin are paying these crazy fees.
childcare fees should be trhe same countrywide and exactly make it worthwhile for mothers to return to work.

any childminders out there charging 42 euro for 6 hours work should hang heads in shame.

don't think so myself

Moonbeam

Childcare fees can't be the same country wide,the cost of living is not the same country wide and wages are definitely not the same.

catch me if you can

Moonbeam wrote: »

Childcare fees can't be the same country wide,the cost of living is not the same country wide and wages are definitely not the same.

I earn the same in ennis co clare now as i was earning in Dublin in 2005. in fact a bit more as i just got a pay rise in April.
The cost of going pubs and cinema are exactly the same also.
clothes and tescos are exact same.
so i dont understand your point?
Also if you agree that 42 euros for 6 hours work is fair enough based on prices nationwide then you should open up a creche and start raking it in on the back of hard working parents

ash23

catch me if you can wrote: »

I earn the same in ennis co clare now as i was earning in Dublin in 2005. in fact a bit more as i just got a pay rise in April.
The cost of going pubs and cinema are exactly the same also.
clothes and tescos are exact same.
so i dont understand your point?
Also if you agree that 42 euros for 6 hours work is fair enough based on prices nationwide then you should open up a creche and start raking it in on the back of hard working parents

I live in the West(not a city) and my friend and sister live in Dublin.
Their rent is dearer, cinema is definitely more expensive, drinks in the pub are more expensive and their wages are relatively higher.

Cities are more expensive to live in and as a result, wages there tend to be higher.
Also creches and childminding are two different things. Staff in creches are on minimum wage as they legally have to be.
Someone working in a childminders house should be on min wage and the parent should be paying tax and PRSI etc for them.
A childminder minding children in their own home is a different kettle of fish altogether.

pickarooney

unregistered wrote: »

Why wud u think its crap? Not everyone who is in childcare has a true vocation - alot of women do it to make ends meet,minding friends or neighbours children particularly in this economy. I know a few people who mind neighbours kids and they don't love kids -they are doingit to pay their bills.

I would find it heart-breaking enough to have a stranger raising my kids but one who didn't love children... why would you do that to them?

catch me if you can

unregistered wrote: »

Why wud u think its crap? Not everyone who is in childcare has a true vocation - alot of women do it to make ends meet,minding friends or neighbours children particularly in this economy. I know a few people who mind neighbours kids and they don't love kids -they are doingit to pay their bills.

If you dont have a love of children then you shouldnt be working in childcare.

Moonbeam

catch me if you can wrote: »

I earn the same in ennis co clare now as i was earning in Dublin in 2005. in fact a bit more as i just got a pay rise in April.
The cost of going pubs and cinema are exactly the same also.
clothes and tescos are exact same.
so i dont understand your point?
Also if you agree that 42 euros for 6 hours work is fair enough based on prices nationwide then you should open up a creche and start raking it in on the back of hard working parents

The cost of going to the cinema is not the same

Ennis - Before 7pm €6.50
After 7pm €8.50
Children under 15yrs (Gen, PG & 12A movies) €5.50

Cineworld -
Adult (after 5pm Mon-Fri, all day Sat-Sun) €10.60
Adult (before 5pm Mon-Fri) €8.20
Child (14 & Under) €6.40
Senior €7.20



The price of a pint is not the same.

Yes clothes in Tesco are the same as is electricity and Gas.

House prices -http://www.daft.ie/report/ not the same.

Don't have time to find average wage by sector and county now but yes wages are generally higher in the capital to compensate for the higher cost of living.

Creches in Dublin are a lot more expensive as a result.

ber123

Hi ladies,


Problem resolved. Moonbeam and others,you asked why I waited til the first day before asking the price. But I had asked her before that. The cm told me it depends on the hours and that the child she already minds from 9-3pm costs 30 euros. So I assumed a fiver an hour. When she told me it was 42 euros from 11-5, I was lost for words! My daughter was beside me and her kids and I didn't want to question her then.

I rang the cm yesterday morning and told her straightout that the most I can pay is 5 euros an hour. She agreed immediately and said that was fine- 'it's not about the money' her words!) Looking back, I think she tried to pull a fast one. She knows I am new to this area. My closest family live 2 hours away, and I know virtually no-one here (moved to start up my business). I think she was being mean-spirited, she charges 5 an hour for the other kid.

My daughter really likes being at her house. But the cm's behaviour has made me question if I should find another cm?

Thanks for all your advice. It was a huge help x

confusticated

ber123 wrote: »

I rang the cm yesterday morning and told her straightout that the most I can pay is 5 euros an hour. She agreed immediately and said that was fine- 'it's not about the money' her words!) Looking back, I think she tried to pull a fast one. She knows I am new to this area. My closest family live 2 hours away, and I know virtually no-one here (moved to start up my business). I think she was being mean-spirited, she charges 5 an hour for the other kid.

My daughter really likes being at her house. But the cm's behaviour has made me question if I should find another cm?

To be fair, it might suit her better to work in the mornings and finish up at three rather than five? And she did say that it depended on the hours. Anyway, if your daughter is happy there and you're happy with the rate you're paying now it's alright surely, hardly worth the hassle of finding a new one?