Teaching Council: €200 fee to assess a UCD course

Dostoevsky

This cannot be justified. I've been in touch with the Teaching Council recently about the standing of the course I'm going to do in UCD. I'm doing precisely the same modules in my subject/course (Irish) that somebody doing the subject (Irish) as part of a two-subject Arts degree would do in that particular subject. As I have a BA already I will be getting a 'Higher Diploma in Arts' for this at the end of the final year. Because of this, the Teaching Council says I will need to pay them €200 to assess if this course, run by UCD, will allow me to teach the subject in question.

How are they getting away with this bare-faced robbery?

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"Fees
Assessment of Qualifications - If you hold qualifications awarded outside of Ireland or qualifications not holding general
recognition from the Teaching Council the following fees are applied
Degree (including one curricular subject) or Teacher Education/Concurrent qualification - €200
Each additional curricular subject - €100"

---

TheDriver

did you ask them to assess the course or the subject??

Dostoevsky

TheDriver wrote: »

did you ask them to assess the course or the subject??

The course. 'Neither diploma qualification is recognised by the Teaching Council for Irish, if you wish to apply for assessment of complete course of study we will assess for information purposes only to determine if it will achieve recognition once you complete H Dip in Arts UCD.'

€200 to assess whether that Higher Dip will allow me to register it with the TC as one of my subjects, when it's merely reflecting the subject as thought to everybody in the day course of the degree (who are taking the subject as part of a two-subject degree).

UnLuckyAgain

I find this to be absolutely outrageous. The course is clearly advertised by UCD to facilitate those who already have a degree, and wish to add to it. If this is not good enough for the Teaching Council, how do they expect teachers to upskill? And they claim to promote excellence in teaching standards?

Yet another way of adding to their 6.7 million euro revenue. Seems like their staff have a very black and white view of qualifications and eligibility - e.g. Arts degree, H.Dip.Ed and that's that.

seachto7

paid €200 to get my Irish assessed earlier this year. They got back to me to say I needed to provide them with a copy of the course brochure. I graduated in 1999, it doesn't exist anymore, as the structure changed.
I told them that, never heard anything back, nothing, and when I did deal with them, one of them in particular was quite snotty with their emails.
I may as well have thrown the money into the Shannon. An absolute joke...

UnLuckyAgain

Keep us updated Dostoevsky i'd love to hear how this pans out.

lellskells

seachto7 wrote: »

paid €200 to get my Irish assessed earlier this year. They got back to me to say I needed to provide them with a copy of the course brochure. I graduated in 1999, it doesn't exist anymore, as the structure changed.
I told them that, never heard anything back, nothing, and when I did deal with them, one of them in particular was quite snotty with their emails.
I may as well have thrown the money into the Shannon. An absolute joke...

I was aked to provide the course brochure from 1996!, the student desk (UCD) or the equivilants at the other colleges have copies on file. I would do this, dont take it that they have just forgotten/let it go, you may end up having to do this eventually. I have had dozens of snotty e-mails and they are impossible to deal with. In the end I decided not to pursue a teaching career but I wish you well:)

docarror

I just came across your post and i'm very interested. I have a BA amd am looking to get another subject for eg economic or Irish. Is it possible to do one subject instead of doing another full BA degree?? Thanks for any help

UnLuckyAgain

docarror wrote: »

I just came across your post and i'm very interested. I have a BA amd am looking to get another subject for eg economic or Irish. Is it possible to do one subject instead of doing another full BA degree?? Thanks for any help

I know NUIM do a Higher Diploma in Economics programme which covers and amounts to the equivalent of an honours degree in economics by all standards - that is, all standards other than the TC. So you would have to ask them if it is acceptable.

Alternatively, UCD run a part-time evening Arts degree course where you can take Irish. This runs on a cyclical basis though so you would have to wait until e.g. Irish crops up again. However as someone mentioned (either here or in another similar post), this may have changed to the Higher Diploma in Arts programme in UCD. Same idea though.

Rosita

Dostoevsky wrote: »

This cannot be justified. I've been in touch with the Teaching Council recently about the standing of the course I'm going to do in UCD. I'm doing precisely the same modules in my subject/course (Irish) that somebody doing the subject (Irish) as part of a two-subject Arts degree would do in that particular subject. As I have a BA already I will be getting a 'Higher Diploma in Arts' for this at the end of the final year. Because of this, the Teaching Council says I will need to pay them €200 to assess if this course, run by UCD, will allow me to teach the subject in question.

How are they getting away with this bare-faced robbery?

---

"Fees
Assessment of Qualifications - If you hold qualifications awarded outside of Ireland or qualifications not holding general
recognition from the Teaching Council the following fees are applied
Degree (including one curricular subject) or Teacher Education/Concurrent qualification - €200
Each additional curricular subject - €100"

---

Is your issue here with the amount of the fee or the fact that it needs to be done at all?

On the face of it it doesn´t seem unreasonable that a course which is not on the TC´s lists already would need to be assessed independently to a verifiable extent. Obviously the "administration fees" involved in such situations is a veritable licence to print money.

looksee

I can understand why courses done outside of ireland would have to be verified. Surely though, any college offering a course designed for teachers should get it verified by the TC before offering it. Otherwise you could have several dozen people all paying their 200 for the TC to verify it individually?

Would it not be more reasonable for courses to be marked as approved by the TC? Or am I missing something here?

mtoutlemonde

Dostoevsky wrote: »

This cannot be justified. I've been in touch with the Teaching Council recently about the standing of the course I'm going to do in UCD. I'm doing precisely the same modules in my subject/course (Irish) that somebody doing the subject (Irish) as part of a two-subject Arts degree would do in that particular subject. As I have a BA already I will be getting a 'Higher Diploma in Arts' for this at the end of the final year. Because of this, the Teaching Council says I will need to pay them €200 to assess if this course, run by UCD, will allow me to teach the subject in question.

How are they getting away with this bare-faced robbery?

---

"Fees
Assessment of Qualifications - If you hold qualifications awarded outside of Ireland or qualifications not holding general
recognition from the Teaching Council the following fees are applied
Degree (including one curricular subject) or Teacher Education/Concurrent qualification - €200
Each additional curricular subject - €100"

---

Hi Dostoevsky, I have just found this thread - in the same problem - I've sent you a private message (hope you don't mind). Anyone else get their qualifications assessed recently for French???

thefasteriwalk

seachto7 wrote: »

paid €200 to get my Irish assessed earlier this year. They got back to me to say I needed to provide them with a copy of the course brochure. I graduated in 1999, it doesn't exist anymore, as the structure changed.
I told them that, never heard anything back, nothing, and when I did deal with them, one of them in particular was quite snotty with their emails.
I may as well have thrown the money into the Shannon. An absolute joke...

I had my course assessed in Feb for an additional subject (History). My college no longer had brochures from my years of study, but all I had to get was an official/certified print out of the modules I took each year with my name on top of each page. My college sent them out to me in no time and I was registered with History five weeks later.

To add, several people I went to college with also has the course assessed for History and we each had to pay the 200e regardless of the fact that it had been assessed for individuals on numerous occasions prior. Pure money racket!

mrboswell

Quite simply:

The Teaching Council = Evil

There is nothing good to be said about it

Dostoevsky

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

Hi Dostoevsky, I have just found this thread - in the same problem - I've sent you a private message (hope you don't mind). Anyone else get their qualifications assessed recently for French???

I forgot about this thread until your pm. Just responded (I think I pressed the 'Send' button three times by mistake! Mea culpa)

Rosita wrote: »

Is your issue here with the amount of the fee or the fact that it needs to be done at all?

The fact that it needs to be done at all when all I'm doing is the TC required degree credits from a university and course they recognise. The course is entirely degree credits. It is only the 'exit qualification' name which is different.

looksee wrote: »

Surely though, any college offering a course designed for teachers should get it verified by the TC before offering it. Otherwise you could have several dozen people all paying their 200 for the TC to verify it individually?

Would it not be more reasonable for courses to be marked as approved by the TC? Or am I missing something here?

I agree totally with this. The universities should not be allowed launch such courses until they have at least a place on the NQF. Courses which are almost entirely focused on allowing teachers to add a subject, such as the Higher Diploma in Arts, should be on the TC list before UCD/UCC/NUIM/NUIG etc offer them.

Dostoevsky

UnLuckyAgain wrote: »

Keep us updated Dostoevsky i'd love to hear how this pans out.

Update:


As I said to mtoutlemonde, I was told by the TC that an official letter from my university stating that I had done the necessary degree credits in years 2 & 3 of my subject, along with subject details and a copy of my exam results would be accepted by the TC.

I got the distinct impression that every time I mentioned the name of my 'exit qualification', namely the Higher Diploma in Arts, they reverted to an "It's not on the list so you have to send us money to evaluate it" default mentality. So, because the actual course was entirely degree credits, I was told to focus on confirming to them that I did those degree credits and not confuse the issue by talking about my 'exit qualification'.

I'm hoping that will work, particularly because I've been told by somebody in the TC that it would. If anybody has already been through this, let us know here please.

Dostoevsky

thefasteriwalk wrote: »

I had my course assessed in Feb for an additional subject (History). My college no longer had brochures from my years of study, but all I had to get was an official/certified print out of the modules I took each year with my name on top of each page. My college sent them out to me in no time and I was registered with History five weeks later.

This is similar to what I intend to do, as explained above. However, I am going to avoid mention of the exit qualification and show them the BA course brochure and breakdown of credits and modules, because they are precisely the credits and modules we are doing. I'm expecting this emphasis to work.

thefasteriwalk wrote: »

To add, several people I went to college with also has the course assessed for History and we each had to pay the 200e regardless of the fact that it had been assessed for individuals on numerous occasions prior. Pure money racket!

No, you have to be mistaken. Are you really saying the Teaching Council charged each of them €200 each to assess precisely the same course? If true this sounds like fraud. They are ostensibly charging that fee based on the grounds that the subject has not been assessed by them, yet it clearly has been. If this is really happening then it is time to inform the unions about this practice and indeed confront the Teaching Council about how they justify this.

If you can confirm it's happening and that I haven't misread you I will take it up with the ASTI immediately as that's not right by any standards (and I might as well get some value out of my union dues).

mtoutlemonde

Dostoevsky wrote: »

No, you have to be mistaken. Are you really saying the Teaching Council charged each of them €200 each to assess precisely the same course? If true this sounds like fraud. They are ostensibly charging that fee based on the grounds that the subject has not been assessed by them, yet it clearly has been. If this is really happening then it is time to inform the unions about this practice and indeed confront the Teaching Council about how they justify this.

If you can confirm it's happening and that I haven't misread you I will take it up with the ASTI immediately as that's not right by any standards (and I might as well get some value out of my union dues).

It looks to be that way! I contacted someone who did the course with me and told her about the assessment problem and she said that she had her qualifications assessed prior to commencement of the course - so she had to send in the details of the course to the TC for them to approve them before she started - the woman I was talking to yesterday asked me where my assessment form was and that I shouldn't have done the course until they told me that I could. I also know of another girl who they wouldn't register for French and she had a masters. She assessed her qualifications and was told that she had a shortfall of 10 credits - she then completed the 3rd year of the BA programme (4 essays) before she could be registered i.e. the same course programme I'm after completing.

I tried ringing the union yesterday but all I got was a engaged tone, I also sent an email to my area representative and got a Mailer Daemon message back today to say that my message had timed out. In my madness, I sent a very long detailed email to both Ruairi Quinn and Enda Kenny - I got an email from someone in Ruairi's Quinns office to say that the matter would be brought to his attention. If you are contacting the union - I would defintely like to know what they say. The system is so wrong - we pay big fees to study modules to make us more employable and then the TC require €200 to essentially add a subject to your list - the most expensive word I will ever pay someone to type. I don't feel so bad now as someone else has the same problem!

Dostoevsky

For anybody interested, this is the form you have to fill in when you want to add a subject with the Teaching Council:

Application for the assessment of qualifications


Here are the Teaching Council requirements to teach each subject:

General and Special Requirements

You'll note it talks about your "primary degree studies" and that you've done them. It does not, as far as I can make out from that, specify that the exit qualification must be the BA, just that the 54 ECTS credits must be from "primary degree studies (or equivalent)". My interpretation is open to correction there, though.

thefasteriwalk

I am certainly not mistaken. Four of us (that I know of) have all had it assessed from my year - 2003-2007. A friend is going about getting it registered now also - I gave him the letter I received confirming that our course in the study years 2003-2007 had been deemed eligible for the teaching of History. This letter has a file reference number where, presumably, they held the documentation required. He quoted this reference number to them on his application and also attached a copy of the letter they sent me. He still has to pay the 200e - no money = no registering of the subject. I will add that this is a third subject for both of us and our first two subjects didn't require this. But to date I know they've received at least 1200e for assessing this course for History and to be honest I would imagine it's a lot more as I wouldn't be in contact with that many people from college. And that's just my year too.

Miss Lockhart

I've said it here several times - your degree can only be considered approved by the TC if the university pays a very hefty fee (several thousand) and has it assessed. Individual assessments make no difference. I have no doubt there are courses that have been assessed hundreds of times but each new applicant must still pay the €200.

Incidentally, the TC have actually "temporarily suspended" the process by which universities can have degrees accredited pending review of the subject requirements. See here:

http://www.teachingcouncil.ie/registration/general-recognition.468.html

dukedalton

Dostoevsky wrote: »

How are they getting away with this bare-faced robbery?

Well as we all know, they are getting away with bare-faced robbery because they have us all by the short and curlys re: the education act of 2008. £200 to assess a course is on the Ryanair scale of outrageous fees, but when you think about it, at least you would be paying them (albeit at a hugely exorbedant rate) to do something. Think about the e90 a year that all teachers (employed or otherwise) are obliged to pay- and for what? So our name is on some database? We are getting nothing for it. And anecdotally I've heard from a teachers' representative on the council that they have cash reserves in the region of e12million. They wouldn't be able to spend that amount if they wanted to! When I see their glossy brochures come around it makes my blood boil. You have my sympathy.

Cuerva

Hi Dostoevsky

I'm just wondering how you got on with that?

I'm currently having major issues with the Teaching Council and don't know who to turn to! Its unbelievable its like they want to put all future teachers off the profession.

If anyone else had any dealings with them recently I'd love to hear about it too.

2011abc

dukedalton wrote: »

And anecdotally I've heard from a teachers' representative on the council that they have cash reserves in the region of e12million. They wouldn't be able to spend that amount if they wanted to!

They will be spending it on legal fees fighting 'underperforming' teachers appeals against dismissal .VERY scarey stuff indeed .In England now being labelled 'underperforming' and being 'put on special measures' are caused by NOT being 'Outstanding'!