Re-mapping 2009 Audi A4 (Pros & Cons)

brian2me

Was wondering if remapping an 2009 Audi A4 2.0TDi 140bhp would have any negatives to the car. My 09 is not as zippy as my previous 05 2.0TDi 140bhp

-Corkie-

PM ONKLE that posts here and he will sort you out....;)

TrailerBob

Hasn't he changed his username recently??

Anyway... It's a common question, remaps are best done by reputable pros who will dunk the car and set it up correctly, you will get more power, but how much is not in my expertise!

Gary ITR

-Corkie- wrote: »

PM ONKLE that posts here and he will sort you out....;)

Yeah he's called GaryITR apparently

tossy

Gary ITR wrote: »

Yeah he's called GaryITR apparently

Ah sweet mother of jesus!

Mr Benevolent

tossy wrote: »

Ah sweet mother of jesus!

He changes his name more often than Biffo changed his mind.

Gary ITR

tossy wrote: »

Ah sweet mother of jesus!

You should change yours to 'I used to be cool when I drove a supercharged v6, but now I worship at the church of felt'

brian2me

We are heading a bit off topic, yea would be foolish not to get it done by a reputable professionals. Any owners of an Audi 2.0TDi 140bhp 2007 - 2011 remapped there cars??

-Corkie-

Try this man http://www.chippedire.com/ . He knows his VAG cars really well.

cadaliac

brian2me wrote: »

Was wondering if remapping an 2009 Audi A4 2.0TDi 140bhp would have any negatives to the car. My 09 is not as zippy as my previous 05 2.0TDi 140bhp

Is it the same engine?
Delivery is more than likely more evenly spread out across the rev range and the car doesn't give the surge the older car had (albeit for 1500 rpm or so only).

-Chris-

cadaliac wrote: »

Is it the same engine?

Nope, and they don't drive similarly at all. The new one is far more linear in its power delivery, so probably doesn't feel as powerful (less shove in the back).

brian2me

-Corkie- wrote: »

Try this man http://www.chippedire.com/ . He knows his VAG cars really well.

Thanks Corkie, they look the business. It definitely needs the extra poke.

Henry Ford III

From chippedire website....

"The modification to the map is undetectable by main dealer diagnostic equipment and therefore unless you tell them that it has been done, they will be none the wiser so your warranty will be unaffected."

That's dishonest surely?

opinion guy

Henry Ford III wrote: »

From chippedire website....

"The modification to the map is undetectable by main dealer diagnostic equipment and therefore unless you tell them that it has been done, they will be none the wiser so your warranty will be unaffected."

That's dishonest surely?

I also don't believe the main dealers can't detect it. Have you seen a modern audi workshop ??? Its like something Nasa would have with high tech tools coming up out of the ground and ****.

Quazzie

opinion guy wrote: »

I also don't believe the main dealers can't detect it. Have you seen a modern audi workshop ??? Its like something Nasa would have with high tech tools coming up out of the ground and ****.

But have you seen the mechanics. They look like apes that have just come out of the ground and shít.

EPM

Well I have a similar version of that engine and the Skoda dealer were unable to detect the remap on my car. In saying that te remap was as much a surprise to me as it was them but short of sending a log off to Skoda for analysis they couldn't prove it themselves.

A quick drive would confirm things though if they know their stuff.

Henry Ford III

opinion guy wrote: »

I also don't believe the main dealers can't detect it. Have you seen a modern audi workshop ??? Its like something Nasa would have with high tech tools coming up out of the ground and ****.

Probably.

The point I was trying to make was that chippedire were tacitly encouraging dishonesty by making that statement on their website. They should be truthful and say the warranty is voidable after a remap. I wonder what their view on insurance and disclosure is?

If a car has 20 or 30% more power than standard I think it'd be pretty obvious to any owner, never mind a main dealer.

opinion guy

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Probably.

The point I was trying to make was that chippedire were tacitly encouraging dishonesty by making that statement on their website. They should be truthful and say the warranty is voidable after a remap. I wonder what their view on insurance and disclosure is?

If a car has 20 or 30% more power than standard I think it'd be pretty obvious to any owner, never mind a main dealer.

So here's a question. What will your insurer say if you tell them it has been remapped. Will they jack up price or just refuse to cover it ?

EPM

opinion guy wrote: »

So here's a question. What will your insurer say if you tell them it has been remapped. Will they jack up price or just refuse to cover it ?

I'd expect a slight increase for sure.

I had driven different versions of my car with the older engine and the difference certainly wasn't very noticeable. There was a step down when the map was taken off but nothing hugely different. There are quite a few remapped cars out there for sale that dealers miss (or chose to ignore). One GTI I was looking at was a lot swifter than the others.

Henry Ford III

opinion guy wrote: »

So here's a question. What will your insurer say if you tell them it has been remapped. Will they jack up price or just refuse to cover it ?

I'd agree with EPM - an increase would most likely be payable. As in all things insurance related every case is different though.

If I was a motor underwriter I'd take a pretty dim view of after market fitment of roll cages and racing seats for example.

-Corkie-

The OP wont be worrying about warranty as the car is two years old. I cant see his premium increasing that much.

brian2me

-Corkie- wrote: »

The OP wont be worrying about warranty as the car is two years old. I cant see his premium increasing that much.

Just worried how much poke I get and fuel economy savings and if they are any performance negatives and does it increase maintenance costs extra wear and tear??

-Corkie-

brian2me wrote: »

Just worried how much poke I get and fuel economy savings and if they are any performance negatives and does it increase maintenance costs extra wear and tear??

You should get 30 BHP which would be noticable and better fuel economy. A small remap like that isnt going to cause extra maintenance. Its not like you are remapping it to over 200 BHP and driving the ring out ofit..:)

You should ring Joe Power and he will give you the exact figures you want.

brian2me

Got the car done today, the drive down from Dublin was enjoyable. Very happy so far.

opinion guy

brian2me wrote: »

Got the car done today, the drive down from Dublin was enjoyable. Very happy so far.

How much HP did you get out of it ?

brian2me

opinion guy wrote: »

How much HP did you get out of it ?

When it initially went on the ramp it was 137bhp now getting 171bhp. The torque is alot better distributed. Car is more responsive.

-Corkie-

brian2me wrote: »

When it initially went on the ramp it was 137bhp now getting 171bhp. The torque is alot better distributed. Car is more responsive.

Did you get Joe in the end????

vectra

Did you pull the dpf out of it?

brian2me

-Corkie- wrote: »

Did you get Joe in the end????

Yea got Joe, nice chap

brian2me

vectra wrote: »

Did you pull the dpf out of it?[/QUOTE

No just a basic remap

vectra

brian2me wrote: »

vectra wrote: »

Did you pull the dpf out of it?[/QUOTE

No just a basic remap

DPF delete may have freed up a bit more

-Corkie-

vectra wrote: »

brian2me wrote: »

DPF delete may have freed up a bit more

DPF delete costs nearly 800 quid. Its a lot of cash for a few horses.

vectra

-Corkie- wrote: »

vectra wrote: »

DPF delete costs nearly 800 quid. Its a lot of cash for a few horses.

DPF delete was done by a guy on VAGdrivers.net.
Took the dpf down
Opened it and removed the guts.
Welded it back up and got Joe to map to suit while doing the remap.
went from 170 to 221 bhp

-Corkie-

vectra wrote: »

-Corkie- wrote: »

DPF delete was done by a guy on VAGdrivers.net.
Took the dpf down
Opened it and removed the guts.
Welded it back up and got Joe to map to suit while doing the remap.
went from 170 to 221 bhp

Yera 140 horses are nearly too much for me in the car. I have 450 horses under me all day everyday and thats enough for the day job.

Gary ITR

brian2me wrote: »

Yea got Joe, nice chap

The chap that was chatting to you in reception is sounder though

-Corkie-

Gary ITR wrote: »

The chap that was chatting to you in reception is sounder though

I was waiting for that...:D

vectra

-Corkie- wrote: »

vectra wrote: »

Yera 140 horses are nearly too much for me in the car. I have 450 horses under me all day everyday and thats enough for the day job.

Sorry,
I forgot to add that it didn't cost anything more than a remap to do.

-Corkie-

vectra wrote: »

-Corkie- wrote: »

Sorry,
I forgot to add that it didn't cost anything more than a remap to do.

That was very reasonable in fairness although I wouldnt take on a job like that myself..:o

vectra

-Corkie- wrote: »

vectra wrote: »

That was very reasonable in fairness although I wouldnt take on a job like that myself..:o

Apparently it is a simple job.
Take down the DPF
Angle grinder to cut a square section out of it.
Hack the guts out and weld it back up.
DPF light shows.
Go for remap and get light turned off.

Gary ITR

vectra wrote: »

Apparently it is a simple job.
Take down the DPF
Angle grinder to cut a square section out of it.
Hack the guts out and weld it back up.
DPF light shows.
Go for remap and get light turned off.

Simple if you know what you're at. We actually do the DPF removal, Joe doesn't do any mechanical work, it can be a pain of a job

-Corkie-

Wifes car and me with angle grinder cutting pieces out of it....

I hope you have a spare room..:)

vectra

Gary ITR wrote: »

Simple if you know what you're at. We actually do the DPF removal, Joe doesn't do any mechanical work, it can be a pain of a job

Correct, He got this done in Cork before heading to Dublin to Joe to remap.

-Corkie- wrote: »

Wifes car and me with angle grinder cutting pieces out of it....

I hope you have a spare room..:)

LOL
Why?
Are yo usending your wife over to me :pac:

-Corkie-

vectra wrote: »

LOL
Why?
Are yo usending your wife over to me :pac:

No she would be sending me to you..:D

Seriously though I wouldnt chance my arm at that.

vectra

-Corkie- wrote: »

No she would be sending me to you..:D

Seriously though I wouldnt chance my arm at that.

No thanks.. She can keep you

Go on and chance it, you know you want to

brian2me

Gary ITR wrote: »

The chap that was chatting to you in reception is sounder though

I thought that too but Joe said he was a right b*ll*cks lol. No seriously all very helpfull, might be back for that air filter Gary.

brian2me

After having the remap done, the car is not the same! Don't know if it is a weak clutch but when i accelerate it just races the power is not distributed. Think I'll save up for a S5

Popoutman

brian2me wrote: »

<snip> might be back for that air filter Gary.

Don't bother changing the air filter on a VAG diesel for any "performance" filters - it's just not a bottleneck until you're pulling 3-400 bhp worth of air through it. Just make sure it's clean and well-fitting, it's already hugely over-capacity for the job in hand.

Gary ITR

brian2me wrote: »

After having the remap done, the car is not the same! Don't know if it is a weak clutch but when i accelerate it just races the power is not distributed. Think I'll save up for a S5

If you have a weak clutch it'll cause problems alright, if you want us to take a look though drop back any time

tossy

Popoutman wrote: »

Don't bother changing the air filter on a VAG diesel for any "performance" filters - it's just not a bottleneck until you're pulling 3-400 bhp worth of air through it. Just make sure it's clean and well-fitting, it's already hugely over-capacity for the job in hand.

A performance panel filter is always a positive addition to any car,you will not get any BHP gains but you will get great air flow improvements,you are half right in what you say the OEM ducting from the front grill to the OEM air box and beyond is more than adequate for drawing in enough air even on 300+ plus BHP engines but factory issue air filters just dont allow as much free flow of air as any modifications even a simple remap might require to get the full benefit from them.

Popoutman

tossy wrote: »

A performance panel filter is always a positive addition to any car,you will not get any BHP gains but you will get great air flow improvements,you are half right in what you say the OEM ducting from the front grill to the OEM air box and beyond is more than adequate for drawing in enough air even on 300+ plus BHP engines but factory issue air filters just dont allow as much free flow of air as any modifications even a simple remap might require to get the full benefit from them.

The VAG diesels are not bound by the airflow through the filter - there is almost always a surfeit of air. If there is no BHP or torque benefit to a "performance" filter, then there is no mechanical advantage to having a "performance" filter in place. If there is a shortage of air (one cause of a sooty exhaust under full acceleration) then the 0.001psi drop in pressure across a filter will not make any difference to the airflow. The main airflow restricion on the VAG engines is in the actual head itself, deliberately designed in to give swirl and a more complete ignition. In the 16v CR engines, one intake valve raises more than the other to give the same effect and a smaller restriction, but that is still where the main intake restriction is (and at that point it's the turbo and its control that will determine the mass of air incoming) and a filter is completely non-relevant for any performance improvement.


The disadvantages of piss-poor filtration pre-MAF and pre-turbo outweigh the non-existent gains.

Take any "performance" filter and shake pepper through it. I've done this with a performance cone filter from my MR2 and I got pepper on the other side - it's a reason I went back to OEM there. Now take fine sand of the same size, it'll also pass through and in the engine situation this will mean fine abrasive particulate matter ingested through the pistons. Not good. In general if you can see pinpricks of light through a filter, you'll get particulate matter through it.

The OEM filters have usually got less of a pressure drop across the filter matrix than the "performance" filters, and with the many many more pleats in the OEM than the "performance". This was measured, I can dig up the study and experiment if you want proof.

The only reason why you might want to change the filter (if you want to put up with dead MAFs and sandy pistons) is a cheap and bad way to hear the whistle of the turbo, and the better way to get that is to do a straight-through exhaust or a much freer-flowing 2.5" or 3" exhaust from turbo back, with appropriately sized cat and silencers.

There has been no verified improvement to performance in "ordinary" road car engines by the use of a poorer-filtering airfilter, and I've been looking for a study that verified it for the past 10 years or so. Replacement panel filters are a psychological improvement if noting else - "I've spent this money therefore the car should feel better".

If a performance filter were to show improvement over an OEM filter, then running without a filter should show improvement over a performance filter, by the same logic. all of the performance studies (measured flow rates and pressures through a known system with the only variable being the filter material) showed that the pressure difference between OEM and no filter was around the margin of error of measurement (~0.001 PSI).

There are people that have been properly tuning the VAG 1.9 and 2.0 tdi engines for ~15 years and none of the guys getting good output are running panel or cone filters, even the guy that has >400bhp from a 2.0 CR tdi engine is running an OEM filter.

tl;dr : performance filters do not improve performance, only worsen the filtration.

Popoutman

brian2me wrote: »

After having the remap done, the car is not the same! Don't know if it is a weak clutch but when i accelerate it just races the power is not distributed. Think I'll save up for a S5

Does the engine speed increase without an increase in road speed, when at full acceleration at between 1500 and 2500 rpm in 4th or 5th? Worse when cold or going uphill? Those are the typical symptoms of a slipping clutch in a VAG diesel. Upgrades are certainly possible, but the easiest fix is to tweak the map to reduce the torque peak (reduce fuelling usually) around the clutch slip points so that the torque that causes the slip is not there anymore. Better for clutch longevity. When the clutch needs to be changed next go for a proper performance clutch at that stage, and you'll be good to go for a return to the original map.