Amy winehouse, Role models, Emptiness of Modern Society.

alex73

Ok... I am not that old but I honestly did not know who exactly was Amy Winehouse.. (singer was about as much as I knew) and I'm 38 btw.

Shopping in tesco and I hear a shriek as if somebody had died in the store. A girl in tears was with her friend and they were looking and their iphone saying OMG Amy is dead look... I thought to myself was it a friend.

Back in the car and on radio they started talking about her, So I presume the Amy the girls were talking about in Tesco was the same Amy on the Radio.

What legacy did this girl leave behind.. From googling her it seems she did not have many redeeming achievements. Yet these are the role models of today's youth,, or do I stand corrected. One thing I always tell my kids, Fame and Money will not bring you happiness..

on a different note My 10 year old daughter says to me, Daddy, when are we going to Dublin, I want to to Dundrum because so and so say that Hollister is there and they have really cool cloths. It seems one girl in her class has a lot of cloths from this store.. Go online good lord the prices, and there is only 1 store in Ireland it seems, and from reviews there queues are long. So I said to my daughter, if you get these cloths will they make you happy, she said yes, because I will be the 2nd person in my class to have them. So you will be happy because you have something other people don't have. I showed her details about the parent company and their various lawsuits and where the money goes etc.. And she realised what was behind the Brand.


So be it drug addict singers or branded cloths.. This is what occupies much of our teenage minds. But it does not seem to make them much happier.

kippy

alex73 wrote: »

Ok... I am not that old but I honestly did not know who exactly was Amy Winehouse.. (singer was about as much as I knew) and I'm 38 btw.

Shopping in tesco and I hear a shriek as if somebody had died in the store. A girl in tears was with her friend and they were looking and their iphone saying OMG Amy is dead look... I thought to myself was it a friend.

Back in the car and on radio they started talking about her, So I presume the Amy the girls were talking about in Tesco was the same Amy on the Radio.

What legacy did this girl leave behind.. From googling her it seems she did not have many redeeming achievements. Yet these are the role models of today's youth,, or do I stand corrected. One thing I always tell my kids, Fame and Money will not bring you happiness..

on a different note My 10 year old daughter says to me, Daddy, when are we going to Dublin, I want to to Dundrum because so and so say that Hollister is there and they have really cool cloths. It seems one girl in her class has a lot of cloths from this store.. Go online good lord the prices, and there is only 1 store in Ireland it seems, and from reviews there queues are long. So I said to my daughter, if you get these cloths will they make you happy, she said yes, because I will be the 2nd person in my class to have them. So you will be happy because you have something other people don't have. I showed her details about the parent company and their various lawsuits and where the money goes etc.. And she realised what was behind the Brand.


So be it drug addict singers or branded cloths.. This is what occupies much of our teenage minds. But it does not seem to make them much happier.

A bit unfair. Too soon etc......
All I will say are Elvis Priestly, John Lennon, Kurt Cobain - for the moment. Actually, I'll carry on. Georget Best, Wayne Rooney, Ryan Giggs.
The list goes on.

Sardonicat

Rather than being upset that their role model had died, I think these girls were crying because of the inevitability of this ending. I don't know anyone who would count Amy Winehouse as a role model!

She really did become a wreck and it was all in the media glare. I think it just compounds a feeling of helplessness when a tragedy like this has been predicted for so long and it comes to pass. No happy endings for Amy.

Personally, I have been shedding more than a few tears at the eye-witness accounts of the island massacre in Norway.

MagicMarker

Nice of you to judge someone based on what Google says, very Christian of you.

alex73

MagicMarker wrote: »

Nice of you to judge someone based on what Google says, very Christian of you.

I take your point. Its a discussion, I agree google does not provide a good source of truth,, But I couldn't find much positive about her.

But I stand corrected.

alex73

Sardonicat wrote: »

Personally, I have been shedding more than a few tears at the eye-witness accounts of the island massacre in Norway.

I know... but some in the media today the Amy story seemed to be more attention grabbing than the poor kids who died.

mfceiling

alex73 wrote: »

Ok... I am not that old but I honestly did not know who exactly was Amy Winehouse.. (singer was about as much as I knew) and I'm 38 btw.

Shopping in tesco and I hear a shriek as if somebody had died in the store. A girl in tears was with her friend and they were looking and their iphone saying OMG Amy is dead look... I thought to myself was it a friend.

Back in the car and on radio they started talking about her, So I presume the Amy the girls were talking about in Tesco was the same Amy on the Radio.

What legacy did this girl leave behind.. From googling her it seems she did not have many redeeming achievements. Yet these are the role models of today's youth,, or do I stand corrected. One thing I always tell my kids, Fame and Money will not bring you happiness..

on a different note My 10 year old daughter says to me, Daddy, when are we going to Dublin, I want to to Dundrum because so and so say that Hollister is there and they have really cool cloths. It seems one girl in her class has a lot of cloths from this store.. Go online good lord the prices, and there is only 1 store in Ireland it seems, and from reviews there queues are long. So I said to my daughter, if you get these cloths will they make you happy, she said yes, because I will be the 2nd person in my class to have them. So you will be happy because you have something other people don't have. I showed her details about the parent company and their various lawsuits and where the money goes etc.. And she realised what was behind the Brand.


So be it drug addict singers or branded cloths.. This is what occupies much of our teenage minds. But it does not seem to make them much happier.

Bit much for a 10 year old to understand....

On another note...i totally agree with you that someone like amy winehouse dies after a train crash life of drugs and booze and people are shocked and dismayed - was only a matter of time really

MagicMarker

alex73 wrote: »

I take your point. Its a discussion, I agree google does not provide a good source of truth,, But I couldn't find much positive about her.

But I stand corrected.

What about her incredible talent? That's fairly positive don't you think? Do you think those girls were crying because their favourite addict had just died? Or maybe because they were fans of her music?

Music is a very powerful medium, if I found out that one of my favourite artists died I'd probably be pretty emotional, even if they were a junkie!

alex73

MagicMarker wrote: »

What about her incredible talent? That's fairly positive don't you think? Do you think those girls were crying because their favourite addict had just died? Or maybe because they were fans of her music?

Exactly the point I am making. The singer with talent brings the baggage of her life with her and she becomes the role model.

after all, are these not a sample of some of her lyrics..

"Tell your boyfriend next time he around
To buy his own weed and don't wear my **** down
I wouldn't care if bre would give me some more
I'd rather him leave you then leave him my draw

When you smoke all my weed man
You gotta call the green man
So I can get mine and you get yours"



I think its an enormous pity that the poor women has died, she obviously had talent, and its sad that she was not happy.

Sardonicat

Indeed.

We have a statue of our own "very talented junkie" on Grafton St. Phil Lynnott, remember him?

We mourn his loss, and take pride in his talent. And rightly so.

I was a teen when he died, and I cried. Do you not remember how much music meant to you when you were a teen? Heck, I was thirty when George Harrison died and I bawled like a baby.

I agree with your point about nauseating media coverage. It was nauseating and disproportinate when she was alive, aswell. And it's not without schadenfruede, which I find really disturbing. A simple relation of the facts and short tribute to her talent should be suffucient and fitting.

But don't think those girls weren't horrifed and upset by what happened in Norway because they are crying over Amy Winehouse.

MagicMarker

alex73 wrote: »

Exactly the point I am making. The singer with talent brings the baggage of her life with her and she becomes the role model.

after all, are these not a sample of some of her lyrics..

"Tell your boyfriend next time he around
To buy his own weed and don't wear my **** down
I wouldn't care if bre would give me some more
I'd rather him leave you then leave him my draw

When you smoke all my weed man
You gotta call the green man
So I can get mine and you get yours"



I think its an enormous pity that the poor women has died, she obviously had talent, and its sad that she was not happy.

So who would be an acceptable role model for you? Mary Poppins?

Sardonicat

Trust me, she was no-one's role model, execpt perhaps for vocalists.

The lyrics you posted are so sad. They were sad before she died and tragic now. That's why people are crying for her.

alex73

MagicMarker wrote: »

So who would be an acceptable role model for you? Mary Poppins?

My daughters and I like Adele. Not a Size 0 and does not take drugs. Speaking personally I always liked Bono.

Turning back to Amy, I listened to the link to Back to Black that you posted and he was a great singer. But her personal life seems to be plagued with Drug abuse. So I ask, if you were to choose a role model to follow as a singer, would it be Adele or Amy?

MagicMarker

alex73 wrote: »

My daughters and I like Adele. Not a Size 0 and does not take drugs. Speaking personally I always liked Bono.

How do you know she doesn't take drugs? If it was discovered that she smokes the odd joint would you forbid your daughter to listen to her music or something?

alex73 wrote: »

Turning back to Amy, I listened to the link to Back to Black that you posted and he was a great singer. But her personal life seems to be plagued with Drug abuse. So I ask, if you were to choose a role model to follow as a singer, would it be Adele or Amy?

I wouldn't choose either, the concept of a role model is completely alien to me. But I wouldn't be against young people taking enjoyment from someone like Winehouse, I don't think it's going to pollute their minds or cause them to take drugs themselves.

PatricaMcKay

MagicMarker wrote: »

I wouldn't choose either, the concept of a role model is completely alien to me. But I wouldn't be against young people taking enjoyment from someone like Winehouse, I don't think it's going to pollute their minds or cause them to take drugs themselves.

I dont like the term role model but its natural enough to have heroes. I know that I have heroes who I guess could be considered role models.

For the record I liked Amy's voice but thats about it.

I kind of admire Sinead O'Connor as well as liking her music, but I believe that despite her greatness she is deeply flawed.

alex73

MagicMarker wrote: »

How do you know she doesn't take drugs? If it was discovered that she smokes the odd joint would you forbid your daughter to listen to her music or something?

I don't know if she takes drugs, if she did we would not listen to her.

MagicMarker wrote: »

I wouldn't choose either, the concept of a role model is completely alien to me. But I wouldn't be against young people taking enjoyment from someone like Winehouse, I don't think it's going to pollute their minds or cause them to take drugs themselves.

Just been reading some of her lyrics.. and a lot of them are about drugs? The rahab song where she did want to go?

I take your point. I quiet liked Elton Johns songs, and I know he was a Drug addict.

But the Poor Girl Amy was a Drug addict and some of her songs were about drugs and drug addiction. Do you not think that this would influence some people to see drugs as a soft choice.. sure what's the harm of a line of Coke.

I won't want to attack the poor Girl on her death,,, I am more focused on the principle of the matter.

MagicMarker

alex73 wrote: »

I don't know if she takes drugs, if she did we would not listen to her.

How will you stop your daughter from listening to musicians who take drugs? Or watching movies with actors who take drugs? Or being friends with people who take drugs?

alex73 wrote: »

Just been reading some of her lyrics.. and a lot of them are about drugs? The rahab song where she did want to go?

I take your point. I quiet liked Elton Johns songs, and I know he was a Drug addict.

But the Poor Girl Amy was a Drug addict and some of her songs were about drugs and drug addiction. Do you not think that this would influence some people to see drugs as a soft choice.. sure what's the harm of a line of Coke.

I won't want to attack the poor Girl on her death,,, I am more focused on the principle of the matter.

Did you take drugs when you heard Elton John?

alex73

MagicMarker wrote: »

How will you stop your daughter from listening to musicians who take drugs? Or watching movies with actors who take drugs? Or being friends with people who take drugs?

I think we would have an educated discussion on the topic, some singers started off great and innocent (Jackson)

MagicMarker wrote: »

Did you take drugs when you heard Elton John?

No, But in the 80's it was not that widely published his drug abuse. He went full circle and today would not be an advocate for drugs.

MagicMarker

alex73 wrote: »

I think we would have an educated discussion on the topic, some singers started off great and innocent (Jackson)

An educated discussion? Like ''if you listen to this person singing then you'll want to take drugs''. Is that the education you're talking about?

alex73 wrote: »

No, But in the 80's it was not that widely published his drug abuse. He went full circle and today would not be an advocate for drugs.

So the reason you didn't take drugs is because his drug use was not widely published when you happened to listen to his songs?

alex73

MagicMarker wrote: »

An educated discussion? Like ''if you listen to this person singing then you'll want to take drugs''. Is that the education you're talking about?

Educated like,, The singer uses explicit lyrics about drugs and is a drug user.

MagicMarker wrote: »

So the reason you didn't take drugs is because his drug use was not widely published when you happened to listen to his songs?

I lived in Rural Ireland, Bruce Springstein in Slane was our highlight. As a teenager I probably would have listened to what was on the radio, we didn't buy much music those days and there was no internet or sat TV.

Today, Sadly I see drugs widely available all over Ireland. Singers who sing about them and take them and Girls who cry in Tesco when she dies.

gimmebroadband

It's always sad when talented people die, so young! The pressures of being in the limelight can be very tough on them!! May she R.I.P.

The cemetaries are littered with young people who OD on drugs!!

Sardonicat

alex73 wrote: »

I lived in Rural Ireland, Bruce Springstein in Slane was our highlight. As a teenager I probably would have listened to what was on the radio, we didn't buy much music those days and there was no internet or sat TV.

I'm two years older than you and I ate, slept and drank music. I bought plenty, in whatever format was available to me and consumed all the music related news I could find.

As many of the musicians then, and long before, abused drugs as they do now. In fact, moreso, I believe and it was common knowledge. I didn't turn to drugs. I listened to the music and was capable of differentiating between a performer and their drug habits, which I had no interest in.

You don't seem to be giving much credit to young people. If truth be told, they have far more cop-on and understanding of these things than our generation did.

Sacksian

alex73 wrote: »

Educated like,, The singer uses explicit lyrics about drugs and is a drug user.




I lived in Rural Ireland, Bruce Springstein in Slane was our highlight. As a teenager I probably would have listened to what was on the radio, we didn't buy much music those days and there was no internet or sat TV.

Today, Sadly I see drugs widely available all over Ireland. Singers who sing about them and take them and Girls who cry in Tesco when she dies.

Alex - no one wins 5 Grammys and 3 Ivor Novello awards on talent alone. It takes an incredible amount of hard work to realise that level of success in both performance and songwriting.

She could be a role model for any aspiring performer or songwriter on those terms. No one is celebrating her for her drug use.

People can be role models for their achievements in their chosen field, or for their personal qualities. If you teach your children that distinction, I'm sure they'll be fine.

Lots of successful people don't take drugs, lots do. Lots of unsuccessful people don't take drugs, lots do. And it's not a modern phenomenon.

But we do live in a more open society now than we did in the past, where we know more about the failings, troubles and tragedies of people in the public eye.

There are certainly negative aspects of this but there are also positive aspects. It probably means that there's less hypocrisy in arenas like politics and religion. Which is a good thing.

Da Shins Kelly

I loved Amy's music. I was a huge fan of hers (and will be forever, I think). I'm deeply saddened by her death today. She was an incredibly talented individual, and while I wouldn't consider her a role model as such, she was certainly the leader of the pack in terms of bringing genuine female singer-songwriters to the forefront of modern music, without having to rely on sexuality. She didn't dress up in ridiculous costumes or have fantastically overblown stage productions - she didn't need any of that to augment her talent. Yes, she did not show what she was truly capable of in her last years, but there is no doubt in my mind that that girl was the most talented vocalist (male or female) of her generation. If there'd been no Amy, there'd have been no Adele or Duffy. Even Lady Gaga cites Amy as the one individual who made it easier for less conventional artists to make it. I don't think that those girls saw Amy as a role model as such, but maybe just a young woman who was in some way relate-able. Amy, despite her problems, seemed like a very genuine girl - she was very traditionally Jewish, she loved her father, she had a lot of the same friends after she became famous as she did from before, her performances were always quite heartfelt and authentic. She was a pretty legit artist and girl overall.

Despite this, it seems she was in a very dark place. It's a real shame, and I feel very sorry for her, she was a very unhappy individual obviously. RIP and special condolences to her family. No one should have to bury their child.

AhSureTisGrand

You won't have your daughter listening to The Beatles then I presume?

Baggio1

not sure what to say.
sad for a young woman to die no matter who she is...but i never had any time for her style of music, deeply boring and lady gaga?
that wind bag,,ughh deeply anti christian being an anti catholic/lapssed catholic etc, etc,...... and you dont win awards for talent alone without hard work etc?.. hmmm how about goood ol over the top media hype?! have been in bands for years and play in 2 now as we speak,,, music is littered with one time wonders, and media grabbers who wish sensation to sell their garbage music

awards?? well Rush canada's most successsful band who still sell out their live gigs all over the world and still releasing amazing hight quality albums, as well as being the most succesfull 3 piece band of all time...they never get grammies or even in the rock n roll hall of fame and many musicians and music fans around the globe see that as outragious! and rightly so - but Rush? they just laugh and do their talking on stage! not in sensation news articles or red carper BS award ceremonies....

so there ya go,.,,

dvae

Sometimes i wonder about all the celebrity's who struggle with drug and alcohol abuse and all those who have died because of such.
I know that all the glory of the world and its success belongs to God.
For me this is probably why we should not worship or idolize any body or any thing other than our Lord.
Man was never designed to be idolized. Perhaps this is why some cant
handle celebrity.

mikom

alex73 wrote: »

Exactly the point I am making. The singer with talent brings the baggage of her life with her and she becomes the role model.

after all, are these not a sample of some of her lyrics..

"Tell your boyfriend next time he around
To buy his own weed and don't wear my **** down
I wouldn't care if bre would give me some more
I'd rather him leave you then leave him my draw

When you smoke all my weed man
You gotta call the green man
So I can get mine and you get yours"



I think its an enormous pity that the poor women has died, she obviously had talent, and its sad that she was not happy.

Are you the chief fireman from Fahrenheit 451?

MagicMarker

Baggio1 wrote: »

not sure what to say.
sad for a young woman to die no matter who she is...but i never had any time for her style of music, deeply boring and lady gaga?
that wind bag,,ughh deeply anti christian being an anti catholic/lapssed catholic etc, etc,...... and you dont win awards for talent alone without hard work etc?.. hmmm how about goood ol over the top media hype?! have been in bands for years and play in 2 now as we speak,,, music is littered with one time wonders, and media grabbers who wish sensation to sell their garbage music

Don't really see what this has to do with anything, Winehouse was hardly a one hit wonder.

Baggio1 wrote: »

awards?? well Rush canada's most successsful band who still sell out their live gigs all over the world and still releasing amazing hight quality albums, as well as being the most succesfull 3 piece band of all time...they never get grammies or even in the rock n roll hall of fame and many musicians and music fans around the globe see that as outragious! and rightly so - but Rush? they just laugh and do their talking on stage! not in sensation news articles or red carper BS award ceremonies....

so there ya go,.,,

Rush were nominated for 7 grammys, they didn't win because they're not really that good apart from the odd good song. Most successful 3 piece band in the world? Seriously? What are you basing this on exactly? If it's album sales then you're very well mistaken. However, I'm still not sure what any of this has to do with anything.

face1990

In my eyes, if there's any lesson to be learnt from Amy Winehouse's life & death it's that excessive drug use leads to an early death. Quite a good lesson for her younger fans to learn.

r3nu4l

alex73 wrote: »

I take your point. I quiet liked Elton Johns songs, and I know he was a Drug addict.

...and a homosexual too!!!! Did you burn all your albums when you found out?

alex, you are being extremely judgemental and unChristian in your attitudes imo!

I do take your point however that the media takes a lot of time to promote those who perhaps should not be role models.

Perhaps a better example for you should be Imogen Thomas, the former Big Brother contestant who had an affair with Ryan Giggs of Manchester United. This girl (along with Giggs) made a mockery of his marriage despite knowing he was married. She has now been offered a job as a TV presenter with ITV thanks to the efforts of publicist Max Clifford.

That is a much more damning indictment of modern societal values for me than the sad tale of a young woman who became addicted to drugs and alcohol.

So too is the celebration of celebrities such as Katie Price whose life seems to revolve around foul mouthed tirades and meaningless relationships designed only to stoke her column inches and media hours. however, even Katie Price can be seen as a role model of sorts as she is a woman who has made some very sound business choices.

It's more about educating young people as to the positives of these people's lives and reminding them that it's such a pity that other aspects aren't as fulfilling.

Unfortunately, the real problem is media hype around such people.

Paparazzo

alex73 wrote: »

I don't know if she takes drugs, if she did we would not listen to her.




Just been reading some of her lyrics.. and a lot of them are about drugs? The rahab song where she did want to go?

I take your point. I quiet liked Elton Johns songs, and I know he was a Drug addict.

But the Poor Girl Amy was a Drug addict and some of her songs were about drugs and drug addiction. Do you not think that this would influence some people to see drugs as a soft choice.. sure what's the harm of a line of Coke.

I won't want to attack the poor Girl on her death,,, I am more focused on the principle of the matter.

Do you mean you wont let your daughter listen to music if the artist takes drugs? Do you mean illegal drugs or all drugs? Is it breaking the law in taking the drugs that's the problem?
I think that if you want to avoid artists that took drugs, as Bill Hicks said, you might as well burn your entire music collection.

Baggio1

magic marker - rush not that goood are yu kidding me!! the best 3 musicians on the planet in one band! they also the biggest selller of gold/platinum albums in the world after beatles,rolling stones, and kiss in rock history.. they different class simple as........

JimiTime

Gotta love non-Christians telling people 'thats very unChristian'. I hope this knowledge of Christianity will extend to realising that people who shoot abortion doctors are unchristian etc. Unfortunately, when the time suits non-believers, they suddenly loose this ability to discern what acts are Christian, and what acts aren't.

r3nu4l

JimiTime wrote: »

Gotta love non-Christians telling people 'thats very unChristian'. I hope this knowledge of Christianity will extend to realising that people who shoot abortion doctors are unchristian etc. Unfortunately, when the time suits non-believers, they suddenly loose this ability to discern what acts are Christian, and what acts aren't.

Well there's Christians here telling him he's being unChristian too buddy so that argument falls flat and does nothing to answer the topic of the thread either.

What are your thoughts on what the OP asked?

JimiTime

r3nu4l wrote: »

Well there's Christians here telling him he's being unChristian too buddy

So?

does nothing to answer the topic of the thread either.

And?

And BTW, I haven't seen any Christian mention that the OP was being UnChristian, not that it actually matters to the point.

PDN

I really don't get this idea that being able to sing, or to kick a ball about, carries the responsibility of being a role model for children.

Surely it is up to parents to teach the difference to their children between genuine role models and celebrities?

Doctor DooM

PDN wrote: »

I really don't get this idea that being able to sing, or to kick a ball about, carries the responsibility of being a role model for children.

Surely it is up to parents to teach the difference to their children between genuine role models and celebrities?

Also, I don't see how them being set up is a particularly Christian issue- the start of the most recent Non Prophet podcast (atheist one) is one of the presenters playing rehab and lamenting about the whole thing.


I am not christian and I hate celebrity culture with a passion (although I agree I am bemused by the idea that people that kids are being underestimated here- I was a huge Metallica fan as a teenager, back in the period when they were jokingly referred to as Alcoholica, and I go out for drinks maybe once every 3 weeks).

kitsuune

I'm puzzled by this entire thread.
Why does being a good Christian necessitate preaching to one's children about the evils of consumer society, or how drug taking (apparently) renders all good aspects of your personality null and void?

I really don't seem to 'get' what this has to do with Christianity, except for the fact that the OP seems to have strong opinions on all of these things...

kitsuune

Also aren't role models supposed to be inspirational? Which, in her own way, Amy Winehouse certainly is as regards talent?
I don't think there are many people who would believe that in order to come closer to emulating Winehouse's music would also believe it necessary to emulate her lifestyle...

And actually, I also don't see how this suggests any 'emptiness in modern society' - her life was full of music and passion. The fact that she got lost along the way and didn't recover in time (despite, contrary to the song, numerous stints in rehab and help from her family) is exactly what makes it tragic because so much potential was lost.

smokingman

alex73 wrote: »

My daughters and I like Adele.

I think you'll find that what you like is not, and will never be, "what your daughter likes" with regard to music and probably a lot of other things.

Control her tastes too much and she'll come home one day with a big rebellious surprise.

Let her listen to anything she likes but talk to her as an adult and not some sort of moron as I see a lot of parents do these days.