Atheism and Gender

The IRgAy

Is atheism predominantly associated with male figures?

When I think of high profile characters in the atheism sphere, messrs Dalkins and Hawking spring to mind -- perhaps there's a gender imbalance when it comes to this movement?

Tigger

it is nowhere near as badly male orientated as the popular alternatitives tbh

NecroSteve

At least women are allowed to be atheists!

Turtwig

The IRgAy wrote: »

Is atheism predominantly associated with male figures?

When I think of high profile characters in the atheism sphere, messrs Dalkins and Hawking spring to mind -- perhaps there's a gender imbalance when it comes to this movement?

Here ya go.

Galvasean

FWIW this very forum has a higher than average patronage of female posters in comparison to the average boards.ie forum.

The IRgAy

Galvasean wrote: »

FWIW this very forum has a higher than average patronage of female posters in comparison to the average boards.ie forum.

I think this misses the point somewhat. While I'm sure there are women who describe themselves as atheists, are they at the forefront of this movement in terms of contributing to scientific assault on organised relgion?

Can you name any prominent female figures who are, for example, on a par with Dalkins et al in searching for the truth?

Dades

The IRgAy wrote: »

I think this misses the point somewhat. While I'm sure there are women who describe themselves as atheists, are they at the forefront of this movement in terms of contributing to scientific assault on organised relgion?

Atheism isn't a movement.

Are you asking

1. What is the male/female balance of people who consider themselves atheist? or
2. Why do there seem to be more male atheists pushing secular agendas in print, traditional media or the Interweb?

Because they are totally different questions.

The IRgAy

The IRgAy wrote: »

When I think of high profile characters

...of any description, men come to mind.

Dades, I reckon it is question 2.

kiffer

... Maybe it's the same reason that you see more men in politics in general?

Zombrex

The IRgAy wrote: »

Is atheism predominantly associated with male figures?

When I think of high profile characters in the atheism sphere, messrs Dalkins and Hawking spring to mind -- perhaps there's a gender imbalance when it comes to this movement?

Atheism is predominately associate with scientific figures, and science, particularly at the higher end, is dominated by men.

Logical Fallacy

Wicknight wrote: »

Atheism is predominately associate with scientific figures, and science, particularly at the higher end, is dominated by men.

Very true, you could also say that in it's current mode of intellectual aggression it kind of tailor made for men to rise to the top...as aggressive practice seems to be more acceptable to the society if it's a man doing the sneering.

The IRgAy

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Very true, you could also say that in it's current mode of intellectual aggression it kind of tailor made for men to rise to the top...as aggressive practice seems to be more acceptable to the society if it's a man doing the sneering.

So it has nothing to do with cutting-edge, indelible scientific research, it's simply aggressive intellectualism?

Your username has probably never been so apt.

Logical Fallacy

The IRgAy wrote: »

So it has nothing to do with cutting-edge, indelible scientific research, it's simply aggressive intellectualism?

Your username has probably never been so apt.

Oddly enough a statement about one possible aspect of the emergence of train of thought does not automatically imply it is the only applicable statement.

I would have thought my comment about the truth of Wicknight's statement would have implied that i see the role of "cutting edge science" as you call it.

Do try and read an entire post within the context of a thread, it will help you enormously.

The IRgAy

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Oddly enough a statement about one possible aspect of the emergence of train of thought does not automatically imply it is the only applicable statement.

I would have thought my comment about the truth of Wicknight's statement would have implied that i see the role of "cutting edge science" as you call it.

Do try and read an entire post within the context of a thread, it will help you enormously.

You basically are attempting to counter the fact that atheism is dominated by males by linking the nature of their research to the negative trait of aggression, which you suggest is mostly associated with males. I think this can't be anythng other than sexist, surely?

If I were to say it's because men are far more intelligent you would probably be outraged.:rolleyes:

strobe

Judging by this thread I take it you think it may have something to do with the fact that despite an almost militant campaign from feminists and liberals alike, their attemps to socially engineer society are failing.? Which explains why "Nurses are in nursing because they don't have sufficient brain power for medicine. Fact!" :rolleyes:

That's right. I fucking rock at search functioning. :cool:

(Although I can't help but blame myself a little for this. I think maybe you were on track with that whole "containment" thing after all Dades...)

???

Logical Fallacy

The IRgAy wrote: »

You basically are attempting to counter the fact that atheism is dominated by males by linking the nature of their research to the negative trait of aggression, which you suggest is mostly associated with males. I think this can't be anythng other than sexist, surely?

If I were to say it's because men are far more intelligent you would probably be outraged.:rolleyes:

How am i trying to counter it? I am saying that atheism (or at least the public/quasi celebrity end of it ) is dominated by males partly because intellectual aggression is a good trait to possess when you are trying to bring a new view on things into the public domain. You want to be right and you want to be heard and you take the required steps to make this happen.

Throughout history men have displayed more aggression than women (there is even a wealth of stuff on PubMed to support this view) and for a long time this increased aggression kept them at the top of the heap. Men went off and killed things to eat and women had babies. Society developed and men still stayed on top because this was the established norm...it's only in recent decades that equality has started to work it's way in but the effects of those early days will take a long time to wear off...so it's not really surprising that men still come to the fore a bit easier than women.

You are making a couple of weird assumptions....the first being you think i am trying to counter your OP (I'm not) and secondly that i think aggression is a negative trait (I don't).

Finally, lets take a look at a definition of Aggression ""Behavior which is intended to increase the social dominance of the organism relative to the dominance position of other organisms" - given how the prominent Atheists are being so vocal in a specific attempt to undermine the current power of assorted religious bodies I am failing to see how the term "intellectual aggression" is incorrect, as they are very specifically using intelligent research, thinking and debate to achieve their goal and to very specifically gain dominance over people who will put faith before more obvious evidence.

One last point, why would i be outraged if you said men were more intelligent? I would think you were wrong but i would thank you for the compliment.;)

The IRgAy

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

How am i trying to counter it? I am saying that atheism (or at least the public/quasi celebrity end of it ) is dominated by males partly because intellectual aggression is a good trait to possess when you are trying to bring a new view on things into the public domain. You want to be right and you want to be heard and you take the required steps to make this happen.

Throughout history men have displayed more aggression than women (there is even a wealth of stuff on PubMed to support this view) and for a long time this increased aggression kept them at the top of the heap. Men went off and killed things to eat and women had babies. Society developed and men still stayed on top because this was the established norm...it's only in recent decades that equality has started to work it's way in but the effects of those early days will take a long time to wear off...so it's not really surprising that men still come to the fore a bit easier than women.

You are making a couple of weird assumptions....the first being you think i am trying to counter your OP (I'm not) and secondly that i think aggression is a negative trait (I don't).

Finally, lets take a look at a definition of Aggression ""Behavior which is intended to increase the social dominance of the organism relative to the dominance position of other organisms" - given how the prominent Atheists are being so vocal in a specific attempt to undermine the current power of assorted religious bodies I am failing to see how the term "intellectual aggression" is incorrect, as they are very specifically using intelligent research, thinking and debate to achieve their goal and to very specifically gain dominance over people who will put faith before more obvious evidence.

One last point, why would i be outraged if you said men were more intelligent? I would think you were wrong but i would thank you for the compliment.;)

Good post.

Normally the term 'aggression' carries a negative connotation, but if you genuinely intended it to mean the above I will accept this explanation.

On the matter of intelliegence in relation to atheism and the dearth of female contributors, I think it's something that you cannot just ignore.

The aging excuse that females were deprived of access to education is looking more than a little ropey -- in fact, it did so 2 decades ago.

sponsoredwalk

I can just feel the diluted yet existential threat from those who favour
inferior tennis players :eek::mad:

Logical Fallacy

The IRgAy wrote: »

Good post.

Normally the term 'aggression' carries a negative connotation, but if you genuinely intended it to mean the above I will accept this explanation.

On the matter of intelliegence in relation to atheism and the dearth of female contributors, I think it's something that you cannot just ignore.

The aging excuse that females were deprived of access to education is looking more than a little ropey -- in fact, it did so 2 decades ago.

No problem.

I don't think it's even about education so much as it is about having a decent platform from which to espouse your opinions. To get the kind of attention that Dawkins has gotten to his work, you need to be getting good attention for quite some time and in a relevant field. When Dawkins was born women in Kenya couldn't even vote...the fact that he is a white male would have helped him immensely. It's not really fair to think that someone could do (assuming they entered college 20 years ago) in 20 years what he could do in about 40 years or so.

Ghost Buster

The IRgAy wrote: »

Is atheism predominantly associated with male figures?

When I think of high profile characters in the atheism sphere, messrs Dalkins and Hawking spring to mind -- perhaps there's a gender imbalance when it comes to this movement?

Im involved in a movement?
My wife never told me about this....

pH

The IRgAy wrote: »

Is atheism predominantly associated with male figures?

When I think of high profile characters in the atheism sphere, messrs Dalkins and Hawking spring to mind -- perhaps there's a gender imbalance when it comes to this movement?

Or not.

When people talk about public atheists in Ireland, Ivana Bacik is as likely to be mentioned as anyone else, and AFAIK the main mod/admin of atheist.ie is a woman.

In the UK Polly Toynbee is the president of the British Humanist Association, and writes regularly as an atheist in UK newspapers. Claire Rayner (who died last year) was another president of the BHA, associate of the Secular society and often spoke in the media about atheism. Who can forget Ariane Sherine who created the Atheist Busses in 2008.

It's also worth noting that the early atheist movement in the US was founded by a woman (Madalyn O'Haire) and a woman has been president (or in control of that movement) for more than 40 years of its 50 year history.

So atheism is associated predominantly with male figures only if you ignore the female ones.