Gear position when stopped at lights.

Seasoft

My daughter has started driving, is on her first provisional, and has taken many lessons (not from Daddy I might add).
I was in her car yesterday and noticed that she left the car in 1st gear when stopped at red lights. My wife corrected her on this, but was told that her instructor told her to always wait in 1st gear at lights etc.

Now, we all know it should be neutral at lights, 1st at a stop or yield sign, etc if appropriate. But can someone point to a official written instruction on this. We know we will be ignored unless we can show her in black and white the correct gear to be in at a red light.

TIA.

OldmanMondeo

I would always leave the car in first and be ready to go. The only time I would take car out of gear is if I knew the lights had a long cycle.

omb0wyn5ehpij9

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

I would always leave the car in first and be ready to go. The only time I would take car out of gear is if I knew the lights had a long cycle.

+1

I would normally be in first at traffic lights unless the traffic is heavy and I know I won't be going anywhere for a while!

challengemaster

Yup, afraid to tell you but you're wrong on this one.

If you're in the first few cars in the queue, you should have it in 1st and ready to go unless you'll be stuck there for quite some time. Maybe mammy and daddy could do with a lesson from her

maximoose

I'd always have the car in neutral until I know the lights are going to be changing shortly (I drive a handful of routes and not much else so I know my junctions fairly well at this stage!)

When I was learning I was always taught to have the car in neutral when stopped, only put into first when taking off.

Henry Ford III

I suspect her instructor may moonlight fitting clutches

Radiotower

I used to wait in gear untill I heard a car expert on the radio say that it is very bad for the car to keep the clutch engaged for more than 5 secs so I always knock it out of gear and apply handbrake if facing uphill.

When you see the traffic stopping at the other junction then put in gear and get ready to go.

Anan1

I'd wait in neutral until I could see that the lights were about to change in my favour. That said, my last manual car had a very heavy clutch.

kippy

I was taught that when the car is stopped for any period of time you put the car in neutral.

I don't think I ever read where that had to be done but it's how the instructor taught me and I had no issues with the test.

Now it depends whether I have it in neutral or not but more often than not I put it in neutral.

Sorry, cant help you with the "black and white part".

Matt Simis

Generally wait in 1st if in the first 3 cars of the lights. N if further back and I know Ill be sitting a while.

biko

If I'm in the first three cars I usually wait in 1st so I'm ready to shoot off.
If I'm lazy I'll put it in neutral and take foot off clutch.

Marty McFly

There is no written rule on it really, if she was to do her test tommorrow and stopped at lights leaving it in 1st gear or putting it into neutral both would be totally acceptable.

MrDerp

I began learning to drive 4 and a bit years ago and my instructor never made any statement on this. Though you could say, by omission, he implied that I should stay in first at the lights. I would cycle down through the gears and stop in 2nd, at which point he'd have me move straight into first.

I'm almost certain this is the behaviour I would have displayed during my test.

In practice, I go to neutral if I'm 2 cars or more back from the front of the queue, or if I'm tired of the clutch e.g. from driving in stop-start traffic.

Veloce

I mainly take it out of gear and put into neutral regardless of my position in the traffic que. Clutch wear and all that...

Mr. Presentable

If I know the sequence and the length of time to a change, or there are several cars ahead of me, I put it in N and handbrake on.

Naturally, if there is a chance I'll move soon I put it in 1st.

So, OP, damned if you do, damned if you don't, eh?

bijapos

Two reasons for ataying in neutral

1. Clutch wear is less

2. If you have it in gear and for some reason are hit from behind, the jolt could cause you to knock your foot off the accelerator and the car to shoot forward into the middle of the junction. Not likely in neutral. Long shot I know but it does happen.

Tea drinker

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I suspect her instructor may moonlight fitting clutches

And makes clutch release bearings in his spare time. No way, always leave the car in neutral, engine running, handbrake on. Give yourself a rest but maintain attention.

Sounds like we need an urgent lecture for the bluemotion owners to please disable the engine shutdown at lights. I Mean if they are first in the Q they should have clutch just biting and engine at not less than 6000 rpm am i rite? Who will take the action to contact the Dept of transport about this depoloarable state of affairs? :rolleyes:

Toots

Matt Simis wrote: »

Generally wait in 1st if in the first 3 cars of the lights. N if further back and I know Ill be sitting a while.

That's what my driving instructor told me, and that's what I did during the test and passed. If you're one of the first 3 cars it's leave it in first but have handbrake on, any further back and it's neutral with handbrake on.

This was asked on a driving school forum and the answer seems to back up what your daughter is saying.

If you're concerned that she's getting the wrong information, you could always contact her driving school and see what they say, or contact a few other ones and ask them.

VW 1

Generally if I know the cycle of the lights I will leave it in neutral until 10 seconds or so before green. Otherwise I would leave it in first if I didnt know the cycle.

Beta Ray Bill

To be honest OP I'm not sure there is any official correct method for the above

I think it's relative to the Situation to be honest

IE if the lights have been red for a long time, leave in first as they will probably change.
Or if you are familiar with the sequence and timings of the lights then again, maybe leave in first.

There are all sorts of ridiculous teachings by instructor and/or by people who think they know best. On my Ignition course (Aviva 5/6 years ago) I was told that I should have the hand brake up when ever I've stopped at lights. Which doesn't make sense to me? (Not on a hill btw)

Another one was the handbrake must come up 4 clicks otherwise you might fail your test. WTF?

Stupid carry on.

I've never seen any documentation about the "Correct way to do every little thing in a car" in fact I've never even seen a "Best Practices" Documents. I don't think they exist

Although to be honest I would like to be proved wrong

RangeR

I leave it in neutral, for safety reasons. Foot could slip, cramp could kick in, worst case you could lose conciseness etc. Always be prepared. Any slip of the foot will jerk you forward and potentially into another car or pedestrian. The half a second it takes to move into first gear is well worth it.

Radiotower wrote: »

and apply handbrake if facing uphill.

I'd actually always apply handbrake when stopped for more than 5 seconds.

M.J.M.C

Matt Simis wrote: »

Generally wait in 1st if in the first 3 cars of the lights. N if further back and I know Ill be sitting a while.

This!

First 3 cars should be in 1st Gear ready to go,
from 4 on wards you can see the lights going green and can get ready to put it in 1st.
Stopped for more than 5 sec - pull up the handbrake.

kippy

grahambo wrote: »

To be honest OP I'm not sure there is any official correct method for the above

I think it's relative to the Situation to be honest

IE if the lights have been red for a long time, leave in first as they will probably change.
Or if you are familiar with the sequence and timings of the lights then again, maybe leave in first.

There are all sorts of ridiculous teachings by instructor and/or by people who think they know best. On my Ignition course (Aviva 5/6 years ago) I was told that I should have the hand brake up when ever I've stopped at lights. Which doesn't make sense to me? (Not on a hill btw)

Another one was the handbrake must come up 4 clicks otherwise you might fail your test. WTF?

Stupid carry on.

I've never seen any documentation about the "Correct way to do every little thing in a car" in fact I've never even seen a "Best Practices" Documents. I don't think they exist

Although to be honest I would like to be proved wrong

I dont think there is an official way alright.
There are some two reasons I had heard for leaving it in Neutral with handbrake on (not sure how relevant they are now or how accurate they are)
1. Clutch wear (and generaly issues with the clutch)
2. If you get hit from behind and don't have the handbrake on but the car in first with clutch in you could end up getting pushed, lifting foot off clutch and straight out into the traffic (that said there are situations were this wouldnt happen and you could be in a better position)

A couple of posters seem to have been overly harsh on the OP on this one.......

Beta Ray Bill

bijapos wrote: »

Two reasons for ataying in neutral

1. Clutch wear is less

If you foot is on the clutch, how can it wear away? (There's no contact right)

bijapos wrote: »

2. If you have it in gear and for some reason are hit from behind, the jolt could cause you to knock your foot off the accelerator and the car to shoot forward into the middle of the junction. Not likely in neutral. Long shot I know but it does happen.

I get what you are saying, but if your left foot is on the clutch and the car is in first then you would (should) have your right foot on the brake.

If you were hit from behind and both release the clutch and the brake at the same time it's more like the car would stall and not roll because it's still in first ya know?

G.

pajo1981

Instructor told me to keep it in first when at the head of a queue. I don't remember seeing this written down all the same.

As for wear on the clutch - that's bollocks

RobAMerc

I think you should be in first with the clutch just biting and your right foot in the toe and heel position ready to floor it when the lights go.
otherwise we will have the uniquely Irish case of a 20 min interlude between green and actually moving off. - this phenomenon also leads those travelling from the other direction to believe they have 20 mins after they have red to actually stop. :mad::mad:

pajo1981

RobAMerc wrote: »

I think you should be in first with the clutch just biting and your right foot in the toe and heel position ready to floor it when the lights go.

Now that'll wear your clutch.

Beta Ray Bill

RobAMerc wrote: »

this phenomenon also leads those travelling from the other direction to believe they have 20 mins after they have red to actually stop. :mad::mad:

5 second rule..... :P

Tea drinker

grahambo wrote: »

If you foot is on the clutch, how can it wear away? (There's no contact right)

G.

Grahambo, even if you are not dragging the clutch there is a release bearing which eventually wear out. Leaving it clutched for ages could potentially seriously aggravate this due to heat buildup in the bearing , apart from this you will have accelerated normal wear.

E39MSport

There's no way on Earth I'd sit at the lights with my left foot to the floor and the car in gear. That's silly in my book.

Wear on the clutch release is on thing as mentioned and the possiblity of the clutch letting go for some reason is another. I've had a clutch cable go on me in an older car and it scared the bejeesus out of me.

Anyway, if you're on the ball you'll have it in first and ready to rock seconds before the light goes green

RangeR

grahambo wrote: »

I get what you are saying, but if your left foot is on the clutch and the car is in first then you would (should) have your right foot on the brake.

For your ENTIRE stopped time? Do you not realise it's exceptionally irritating to the car behind to see all that red light. Under certain conditions, it's blindingly bright.

Have the habit of coasting up behind stopped traffic so end up in neutral a lot although I would put it in first if Im near the top of the queue.

When stopped I usually use the foot brake though partly because my handbrake wasn't working properly for a while and then when it was fixed I was "minding" it to get it through the nct so since that I almost subconsciously don't use it unless needed for a tricky hill start and even then just for moving off Id keep the foot brake pressed while waiting. Yes before someone says it its probably not the best way of doing things but its hard to shake a habit when you get into it.

Mycroft H

If you've time to think about putting the handbrake on, well then put it on!


Thats what I was told learning to drive and its served me ever since

challengemaster

RangeR wrote: »

For your ENTIRE stopped time? Do you not realise it's exceptionally irritating to the car behind to see all that red light. Under certain conditions, it's blindingly bright.

Stop driving with a hangover so

Vicxas

What I was thought was:

Keep it in first at everything as its a sign of readyness. maybe I was taught incorrectly.

_Kaiser_

Automatics FTW

D always (unless overtaking then a quick drop into S) unless you're reversing (R) or stopped/parked and then it's into P.

On my old auto Passat I used to move it into N at lights and pull the handbrake if I was gonna be a while, but my new(er) Passat has the electronic handbrake button thing so I can't be bothered reaching to press it. :P

EDIT: Oh but yes, regardless of what gear you have it in, always be ready to go when the lights change!!

pippip

M.J.M.C wrote: »

This!

First 3 cars should be in 1st Gear ready to go,
from 4 on wards you can see the lights going green and can get ready to put it in 1st.
Stopped for more than 5 sec - pull up the handbrake.

+1

Seasoft

Thanks to all who replied.

Seems I must allow her to continue as she is, though I personally prefer to use neutral plus handbrake when stopped at a red light.

firefly08

For your ENTIRE stopped time? Do you not realise it's exceptionally irritating to the car behind to see all that red light. Under certain conditions, it's blindingly bright.

It's perfectly normal - anyone driving an automatic does this all the time because there is no other way to stop the car from rolling, besides taking it out of drive, which is something most people don't do.

Leaving it clutched for ages could potentially seriously aggravate this due to heat buildup in the bearing , apart from this you will have accelerated normal wear.

I too am skeptical of this clutch wear business. Apart from the bearing issue, why would there be "accelerated normal wear"?

unkel

Tea drinker wrote: »

even if you are not dragging the clutch there is a release bearing which eventually wear out

Eventually. Yeah in about 100 years

polod

you are right op always take the car out of gear .....your daughter is going to burn the clutch out of your car i was told the exact same thing when i was doing my test .....its only a matter of doing it until you pass your test

Ardennes1944

i always leave it in neutral. i know the lights i use off by heart and know exactly when im gonna be going. its not a laziness thing i just wish to prolong the parts of my car as long as possible. im always first to leave when the lights go green. leaving it in gear like that when it doesnt need to be is ridiculous to me.

pippip

Deutschlandfürimmer7 wrote: »

i always leave it in neutral. i know the lights i use off by heart and know exactly when im gonna be going. its not a laziness thing i just wish to prolong the parts of my car as long as possible. im always first to leave when the lights go green. leaving it in gear like that when it doesnt need to be is ridiculous to me.

But what do you do when your at a set of lights you don't know and can't see the others changing?

E39MSport

firefly08 wrote: »

It's perfectly normal - anyone driving an automatic does this all the time because there is no other way to stop the car from rolling, besides taking it out of drive, which is something most people don't do.



I too am skeptical of this clutch wear business. Apart from the bearing issue, why would there be "accelerated normal wear"?

Preposterous, completely impossible.... Oh no, hang on, just pop it one click forward into Neutral and apply handbrake, or even all that way up to Park :rolleyes:

One should not assume that all other drivers are as lazy as oneself

TwoShedsJackson

I leave it in neutral and handbrake on unless I'm first in line. If I'm second or further back in line, it takes about a second to put the car in gear and start moving.

However if she's still learning it'll probably take her longer than that, plus she may be worried about stalling or something if she makes a bags of moving off. So once she's more confident in her driving she may leave the car in gear less and less.

-Chris-

Neutral & handbrake even if I'm first in line (unless I'll only be stopped a few seconds).

Alanstrainor

-Chris- wrote: »

Neutral & handbrake even if I'm first in line (unless I'll only be stopped a few seconds).

I'm driving an auto now, but before this i'd take the car out of gear and pop on the handbrake. Then I would pay attention to the lights and when they're about to turn in my favour i'd pop it in gear.

As far as the driving test is concerned; both methods are fine. Staying in gear or putting it in neutral. Neither will incur marks against you.

Although that being said, I would still consider it bad practise to sit with your foot on the clutch the whole time.

Zubeneschamali

landyman wrote: »

If you've time to think about putting the handbrake on, well then put it on!

When these questions come up, I actually have to think about what gear I'm in and whether the handbrake is on, since I do all this stuff automatically without thinking about it.

Having thought about it, I always stick on the handbrake and go into neutral when stopped at a red light, even if I'm first in the queue. I'm always in first and ready to pull away when the lights go green.

I can see why a school might teach learners to be in gear at a red light, as they don't want an embarrassing delay when the lights go green during a test, but if you're a reasonably experienced driver who doesn't have to consciously think about the steps involved in starting from neutral, I think there is a small safety benefit to being in neutral with the brake on for as much of the time as possible when stopped.

chalkitdown

The method taught in England once upon a time was, come to a stop in gear, apply handbrake, change gear to neutral, remove foot from clutch.

DublinDilbert

I think it's mad leaving the car in first when at lights but thats what they are teaching people. Never mind the mechanical strain on the car (some will argue the clutch is designed to do this), what if someone's foot slips or they panic (especially learners).

You should be paying attenetion to the lights and know exactly when you've to go.

donalg1

leave it in first and be ready to go, especially if you are first in line i hate when i am second in line and the light changes and the wally in front of me is fumbling about with their handbrake and gears and wasting time at the lights