Clampers in Oakleigh Wood, Dooradoyle.

mkegvn

Anyone have an experience with these guys? I've had a bit of trouble with them today. I feel they're being slightly dishonest.

Melion

Dishonest in what way?

mkegvn

I display a parking permit for my area. It's taped to the windscreen. It's came a little bit loose last night and one half fell down making it slightly harder to see. I was clamped last night and they tell me they have proof of the permit not being displayed at all. The permit is exactly where the way i left it last night. I've been through war with them this morning and they won't even listen to me. Everytime I ring, they hang up unless I agree to pay. I'm very annoyed

Melion

I know the man doing the clamping(northern), i know that if the full permit isnt visible then he will clamp the car/van. And definitely wont remove it unless he gets paid.

flutered

remove it your self, or pay some one to remove it, what can the clampers do sue ? no they will not take you to court, if you show the judge your permit he will laugh at them, stand up on you hind legs man/woman.

mkegvn

Well the lad you know is extremely agressive and very unreasonable in my opinion. The permit is clearly visible, albeit not as visible as usual. He said he has photos to prove it was not displayed at all but yet, refused to show them to me.

Melion

Someone removed one of their clamps last week and was arrested, they are in court either this week or next.

I wouldnt recommend it.

Melion

mkegvn wrote: »

Well the lad you know is extremely agressive and very unreasonable in my opinion. The permit is clearly visible, albeit not as visible as usual. He said he has photos to prove it was not displayed at all but yet, refused to show them to me.

He does have photos of the permit, id have no doubt about that.
It has to be fully visible AFAIK, you just said yours wasnt.

mkegvn

I've no doubt he has photos. Why not show them to me? I won't be removing his clamp. I would like him to remove it for me. Where did i say it wasn't visable? I only said it was a little bit more difficult to see than normal, he might have had to tilt his head, poor chap.

Melion

It's came a little bit loose last night and one half fell down

There

mkegvn

You're very clever. Thanks

Melion

Im not trying to be clever, i was just pointing out what you said. I could easily ring him and say you are a friend of mine and to take the clamp off and he would. Be reasonable with him, your permit wasnt fully visible, he is only trying to do a job like all of us.

mkegvn

I was very reasonable with him. He became abusive with me when he called out, because I couldn't afford to pay him there and then. He wouldn't allow me to speak my piece, walked away from me when I tried. Everytime I've rang today, I've been hung up on before I'm allowed to speak. I'd call that quite unreasonable on his part.

Melion

mkegvn wrote: »

I was very reasonable with him. He became abusive with me when he called out, because I couldn't afford to pay him there and then. He wouldn't allow me to speak my piece, walked away from me when I tried. Everytime I've rang today, I've been hung up on before I'm allowed to speak. I'd call that quite unreasonable on his part.

Abusive in what way?

Insect Overlord

@mkegvn

Melion wrote: »

Abusive in what way?

I recommend you answer this question honestly and promptly.

L.T.P.

mkegvn wrote: »

I was very reasonable with him. He became abusive with me when he called out, because I couldn't afford to pay him there and then. He wouldn't allow me to speak my piece, walked away from me when I tried. Everytime I've rang today, I've been hung up on before I'm allowed to speak. I'd call that quite unreasonable on his part.

Take your own photos just in case anything does arise from this. I would also contact the property management company or whoever employed the clampers in the first place.

mkegvn

Shoved a piece of paper into my face saying "can you read?". Told me to **** off.

Melion

mkegvn wrote: »

Shoved a piece of paper into my face saying "can you read?". Told me to **** off.

Not saying you're lying but i find that very very hard to believe. Ill ask later on though

Twin-go

If you are confident in your position and are sure that he could have viewed the permit if he moved his head and that he doesn't have pictures to prove otherwise call the Gardai.
If all is above board with your permit he is interfeering with your property and will be told to remove the clamp.

If what you are saying is true the clamping company sound like a bunch of chancers/gangsters.

Melion

seachto7 wrote: »

I know someone in Raheen who cut the clamp off. The cops called to him and he said "what clamp? I don't know anything about any clamp..."
No further action taken as there was no proof that it had been put on in the first place.

If it were me, I would cut it off and sing dumb, but then that's just my opinion which is not the law's opinion....

See my post earlier in thread

Twin-go

Melion wrote: »

Im not trying to be clever, i was just pointing out what you said. I could easily ring him and say you are a friend of mine and to take the clamp off and he would. Be reasonable with him, your permit wasnt fully visible, he is only trying to do a job like all of us.

Do it so.....

Your good deed for the day Mel:D

Grumpypants

I can't understand why you got clamped is it in an apartment block with a shared space, or your house?

Also if the permit is on your windshield then he has no right to clamp you, take a photo of it as it is, then ring the cops. But i have a feeling they wil say its private land and can't do anything.

Dont try to remove it or tamper with it.

mkegvn

Listen, I don't want this to go any further, but the bottom line is that I'm quite annoyed at being hung up on all morning and not listened to unless I agree to pay the release fee. I've contacted Property Management and they can't do anything about it because they don't employ the clamper directly. It's basically his word over mine. I'm sure he's normally a nice chap and all and he has his job to do, but I've done nothing technically wrong here and I feel a bit hard-done-by! At the end of the day, I can't afford the €120 to get the yellow piece of steel off the car.

Melion

Twin-go wrote: »

Do it so.....

Your good deed for the day Mel:D

I was really thinking about it Mark but i know he is having a fairly shít day and could probably do without me asking that.

If the OP wants to send me on the reg and make of his car i can ring and find out if all this is true.

bigpink

Far from a nice guy the way he treated my mother and grandmother one day,hes a scumbag

Grumpypants

mkegvn wrote: »

Listen, I don't want this to go any further, but the bottom line is that I'm quite annoyed at being hung up on all morning and not listened to unless I agree to pay the release fee. I've contacted Property Management and they can't do anything about it because they don't employ the clamper directly. It's basically his word over mine. I'm sure he's normally a nice chap and all and he has his job to do, but I've done nothing technically wrong here and I feel a bit hard-done-by! At the end of the day, I can't afford the €120 to get the yellow piece of steel off the car.

Do not pay him, he is totally in the wrong. You had a permit and it was displayed.

Who hired him to do this if not the property company?, and i don't think you did. He has to be hired by someone

Twin-go

Grumpypants wrote: »

I can't understand why you got clamped is it in an apartment block with a shared space, or your house?

Also if the permit is on your windshield then he has no right to clamp you, take a photo of it as it is, then ring the cops. But i have a feeling they wil say its private land and can't do anything.

Dont try to remove it or tamper with it.

Sorry but privite land or not ones property should not be interfered with.

Insect Overlord

Mod note:

I've removed 5 very dodgy posts, and 1 that quoted same. Cards and bans are the next steps. Anyone who's had a post removed should think carefully before posting in this thread again.

Don't encourage illegal activity, and don't post anything that is blatantly defamatory. Thanks.

ShatterProof

Melion wrote: »

Someone removed one of their clamps last week and was arrested, they are in court either this week or next.

I wouldnt recommend it.

link ????

Twin-go

OP work with Melion on this, he's a good bloke. He may be able to help you out. Worth a try anyway.

Mel, I foresee a job as a peace envoy with the U.N. if you help sort this out!!;)

seachto7

To be honest Mod, this thread is crying out for "illegal activity" posts, so I think you should just lock it......

Melion

ShatterProof wrote: »

link ????

Straight from the clampers mouth last week while i was sitting in his living room. That good enough?

bigpink

Melion wrote: »

I was really thinking about it Mark but i know he is having a fairly shít day and could probably do without me asking that.

If the OP wants to send me on the reg and make of his car i can ring and find out if all this is true.

Ah poor tough guy clamper who abuses people having a bad day the poor thing

Grumpypants

Melion wrote: »

I was really thinking about it Mark but i know he is having a fairly shít day and could probably do without me asking that.

If the OP wants to send me on the reg and make of his car i can ring and find out if all this is true.

I can understand the clampers side of things if the permit had fallen down completely, but at the same time he should have the decency to look at the permit the car owner has and remove it if its in date.

This case is worse since the permit was stuck to the windshield.

Insect Overlord

seachto7 wrote: »

To be honest Mod, this thread is crying out for "illegal activity" posts, so I think you should just lock it......

I'll give it another while yet. It's only been re-opened for less than 2 hours. And to be fair, Melion's giving the OP some decent advice.

mkegvn

Melion, Thanks for your help. It's a 99LK Peugeot 206. I'm not expecting any comeback on this but I do appreciate it. It'll just be my word against his I reckon. I'm just a little annoyed over the whole thing. There has been a few incidents around here with him/or the company before.

By the way, I'm didn't mention anything about the way he spoke to my girlfriend on the phone this morning. That's another story. She lost a days work and wages over this.

Lads I completely disagree with cutting any cutting off of clamps etc. so stop spoiling the thread.

Tefral

I dont condone illegal activity, so cutting it off is criminal damage.

However if it is a non chain type clamp, and just the one with the hook over the wheel, leave the air out of your tyre and you will have enough space to lever it off without damaging the clamp. You may need to jack the car up also to get a bit of space.

There is nothing illegal about removing a clamp unless its a council one so long as you do it without damaging the clamp.

Kess73

So the OP had paid for the right to park where he did.

Is in a position to be able to prove that the permit was in fact paid for and up to date at the time of clamping.


So basically the clamper is not willing to check to see that the OP is legally entitled to park where he did, and is trying to get the OP to pay a fine fo4 parking in a spot he has already paid to park?


Sounds like the clamper has no interest in taking the commonsense approach to be honest. Maybe the permit was a bit hard to see, but one would imagine that once the OP could prove that the permit was valid and fully up to date, then the clamp should be taken off.

I would not touch the clamp in any way. Just take pictures of it, and then go to the gardai with proof that your permit to park in that area is up to date. He has clamped the private property of someone who has paid to legally park there and has prevented you from using your car and refused to check that you indeed have a permit. I would also seek proper legal advise and if you do not wish to go to a solicitor straight away then get in touch with thye Citizen advice centre on Catherine street.

Also make sure you take pics of all around that area of your car as it is now, so that if any damage gets done in the takiong off of the clamp he is responsible as well.

Also take a record of any abusive language he has used against you or your girlfriend or if he was aggressive or threatening in any way and make sure that goes on record with the gardai as well.

If it is the guy I see in the area on a regular basis, then a visit from the gardai or getting a letter from a solicitor would do him no harm. Would not say this about many people but his lack of manners and attitude would make him one person I would not be sorry to see on the dole.

Tefral

Melion wrote: »

Gets charged for what exactly?

You are aware if this was to be pursued in courts in all likely hood the OP would be proved in the right. Its against the law to "interfere" with a mechanically propelled vehicle that doesnt belong to you.

Melion

Kess73 wrote: »

If it is the guy I see in the area on a regular basis, then a visit from the gardai or getting a letter from a solicitor would do him no harm. Would not say this about many people but his lack of manners and attitude would make him one person I would not be sorry to see on the dole.

The guards will say what to him exactly?

osarusan

Does anybody know what the law on this actually is? Clampers are hired to try and ensure the only people who park in any given place are those entitled to park there.

From reading this thread, it seems that the clamper was aware that the OP poster had a right to park there (or would have been, had any effort been made to check), but is taking advantage of the technicality that the permit wasn't 'completely visible'.

If the OP poster is sure this is the case (and ideally has photographs displaying the permit and the extent to which its validity was evident to anybody looking at it) I'd say you could try to find out who hired him and present your case to them. They didn't hire a clamper to do the kind of thing that seems to have been done here. And if the property management company didn't hire him, find out who did - it's private land, somebody must have hired him. Even if the clamper won't listen to you, the people who hired him probably will.

Tefral

osarusan wrote: »

Does anybody know what the law on this actually is? Clampers are hired to try and ensure the only people who park in any given place are those entitled to park there.

From reading this thread, it seems that the clamper was aware that the OP poster had a right to park there, but is taking advantage of the technicality that the permit wasn't 'completely visible'.

If the OP poster is sure this is the case (and ideally has photographs displaying the permit and the extent to which its validity was evident to anybody looking at it) I'd say you could try to find out who hired him and present your case to them. They didn't hire a clamper to do the kind of thing that seems to have been done here. And if the property management company didn't hire him, find out who did - it's private land, somebody must have hired him. Even if the clamper won't listen to you, the people who hired him probably will.

Under the Criminal Justice Act (public order) and also the road traffic act:




'public place' means—

( a ) any public road, and

( b ) any street, road or other place to which the public have access with vehicles whether as of right or by permission and whether subject to or free of charge;";
Wilful obstruction
Under Section 9 of the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994 anyone without legal authority or reasonable excuse, wilfully prevents or interrupts the free passage of any person or vehicle in any public place shall be guilty of an offence.

This section was created in order to protect the constitutional rights of the individual to go about their business in a public place. While the Gardai have no power of arrest under this Section they can invoke the powers of Section 7 of the Act and direct any person to desist from the obstruction in question. Failure to comply with that direction is an offence.

Unauthorised interference with mechanism of vehicle.
Road Traffic Act, 1933 167.—(1) Every person who, without the consent of the owner or the person in charge of a mechanically propelled vehicle and without other lawful authority or reasonable cause interferes or attempts to interfere in any way with the mechanism of such vehicle while it is stationary in a public place or gets on or into or attempts to get on or into such vehicle while it is so stationary shall be guilty of an offence under this section and shall be liable on summary conviction thereof to a fine not exceeding twenty pounds.

"interference with mechanism" Clamping your wheel prevents you driving away

"without the consent" No-one consents to somebody clamping their vehicle.
"lawful authority " may include city , town or county council. but not private clamper in public space.

Then there is the issue of them wanting you to pay the fee and then take it up with their claims departments (note, most clampers operate this in the hope youll never fight it because a sollicitors letter costs at least twice that), so dont pay it because:

Section 17 of the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994 - If a person makes an unwarranted demand with menaces for the purpose of making a gain for themselves or another or with the intention to cause a loss to another they will be guilty of this offence. The exception to this offence is that if the person making the demand with menaces believes that:-
- He has reasonable grounds for making the demand,
and
- The use of menaces is a proper means of reinforcing the demand.

Kess73

Melion wrote: »

Gets charged for what exactly?

If there is a permit registered for that vehicle and that permit is fully paid for and in date, and the vehicle is parked in an area specified for that permit, then the vehicle is being held against the owner's wishes in a spot where it is legally entitled to be.

It can be legally clamped until the owner of the vehicle can prove the permit is valid and up to date, or if the vehicle was parked illegally with no permit at all.

A hell of a lot of the "laws" that clampers can produce on a printed sheet have no actual legal bearing.

bigpink

From my mother and grandmother,and being present with my mother when making calls,some of which were on loudspeaker

dont need your smartness "dear old granmother",i think they are 2 very good people

BESman

What is happening in that estate is a bit crazy. They introduced a parking permit system over a year ago without notifying the residents. On its first morning of operation, there were a large number of vehicles clamped. These tenants had not been notified of the new system and had not been provided with permits, sounds fair right?

The clampers are particularly zealous. I know for a fact that one of the clampers does a check every morning at 6am, ensuring that anyone parked over night will be clamped in the morning which is particularly frustrating if you have to be at work in the morning only to discover you have been clamped. (Mid-West Parking Control for anyone who cares to know). Also, the clamper mentioned in this thread is not the only clamper patrolling the estate, despite what has been said. I also received information from a certain poster that the permit system was a method of forcing property management fees from landlords who were not paying. Again, this is completely untrue, no matter whether fees have been paid or not, each property receives one permit, and only one. This has resulted in many unused parking spaces as tenants have not been issued enough permits. They have recently decided to put yellow lines around certain areas in the estate where people had been parking previously due to a lack of permits. This has further restricted the areas in which tenants can park, and surprise surprise, increasing the likelihood of tenants parking in a location where they will be clamped. It would also appear that commercial vehicles are not permitted to park in certain areas in the estate or they will be clamped. This, I assume, is to preserve an aesthetic quality by removing “unsightly” white vans and the like from view. In response to a lack of usable spaces, they have added more non-permit spaces to the entrance area of the estate. This is ridiculous. It has reduced the width of the road on this stretch and is now more dangerous to pass through. Why not just issue more permits???

In response to the OP’s particular situation, assuming you are renting, demand that the fee be taken out of the rent. This has worked for other tenants in the past. Just be forceful and explain the situation and refuse to accept no for an answer. Although its unfair that the landlord be forced to foot the bill for this, its more fair than for the tenant to pay. Its up to the owners in that estate to change this system and if enough of them start losing rent payments, it might change. Do NOT interefere with the clamp or argue with the company, it'll get you nowhere. While he might have an attitude problem, they're employed to do a job. I blame the management company for this as they introduced the system and hired the clamping company. They're Property Management Ireland (PMI) and are located in the estate next to Scott's Bar, call out to them and tell them you're pissed.

Kess73

Melion wrote: »

The guards will say what to him exactly?

Oh they can quote the actual law to him and not some made up laws that clampers often quote.


I see another poster has put up a section of the actual law on this.

Melion

bigpink wrote: »

From my mother and grandmother,and being present with my mother when making calls,some of which were on loudspeaker

dont need your smartness "dear old granmother",i think they are 2 very good people

And i think the clamper is a very good person who i have known for a very long time.

Melion

BESman wrote: »

What is happening in that estate is a bit crazy. They introduced a parking permit system over a year ago without notifying the residents. On its first morning of operation, there were a large number of vehicles clamped. These tenants had not been notified of the new system and had not been provided with permits, sounds fair right?

The clampers are particularly zealous. I know for a fact that one of the clampers does a check every morning at 6am, ensuring that anyone parked over night will be clamped in the morning which is particularly frustrating if you have to be at work in the morning only to discover you have been clamped. (Mid-West Parking Control for anyone who cares to know). Also, the clamper mentioned in this thread is not the only clamper patrolling the estate, despite what has been said. I also received information from a certain poster that the permit system was a method of forcing property management fees from landlords who were not paying. Again, this is completely untrue, no matter whether fees have been paid or not, each property receives one permit, and only one. This has resulted in many unused parking spaces as tenants have not been issued enough permits. They have recently decided to put yellow lines around certain areas in the estate where people had been parking previously due to a lack of permits. This has further restricted the areas in which tenants can park, and surprise surprise, increasing the likelihood of tenants parking in a location where they will be clamped. It would also appear that commercial vehicles are not permitted to park in certain areas in the estate or they will be clamped. This, I assume, is to preserve an aesthetic quality by removing “unsightly” white vans and the like from view. In response to a lack of usable spaces, they have added more non-permit spaces to the entrance area of the estate. This is ridiculous. It has reduced the width of the road on this stretch and is now more dangerous to pass through. Why not just issue more permits???

In response to the OP’s particular situation, assuming you are renting, demand that the fee be taken out of the rent. This has worked for other tenants in the past. Just be forceful and explain the situation and refuse to accept no for an answer. Although its unfair that the landlord be forced to foot the bill for this, its more fair than for the tenant to pay. Its up to the owners in that estate to change this system and if enough of them start losing rent payments, it might change. Do NOT interefere with the clamp or argue with the company, it'll get you nowhere. While he might have an attitude problem, they're employed to do a job. I blame the management company for this as they introduced the system and hired the clamping company. They're Property Management Ireland (PMI) and are located in the estate next to Scott's Bar, call out to them and tell them you're pissed.

This is the most sensible thing posted in this thread.

Ironically enough, i was with the clamper in question on the first morning of the new permit rules.

If the OP is renting the property, then get on to the landlord straight away as they are the people who should have paid their fees and gotten their permits for their tenants.

Insect Overlord

Bigpink,
I've had to remove 6 posts of yours for defamatory content.
Please don't post in this thread again.

bigpink

Ok thats your view,thats my view this guy is a nasty piece of work,this guy well known by people who have had a run in with him

osarusan

Melion wrote: »

If the OP is renting the property, then get on to the landlord straight away as they are the people who should have paid their fees and gotten their permits for their tenants.

Hasn't the OP made it clear that he already has a valid permit for the place he parked?