No escaping Tolls now

MugMugs

This is just getting worse and worse

Today in the indo

MOTORISTS will be forced to pay tolls on all of our motorways under new plans given the green light by road chiefs.

Drivers will no longer be able to use any stretch of the M50 motorway around Dublin without being hit with a charge.

And those using six other major networks, including the Waterford motorway, will have to pay tolls.

That means thousands of additional drivers will be hit. The plan to net all drivers is being drawn up by consultants hired by the National Roads Authority (NRA).

In documents seen by the Irish Independent, the consultants are being asked to "assess and introduce new toll points/regimes and, if necessary, identify changes to existing toll arrangements to facilitate such new toll points and operations".

Almost all the State's major new road projects will be included in the new system.

These include the Dundalk bypass, the N20 at Croom in Co Limerick, the N20 at Mallow in Co Cork, the N18 Ennis bypass and the N17/18 Tuam bypass in Co Galway.

The new sweep comes as the Government attempts to make up for revenue lost as motorists pay less road tax by switching to greener cars.

Consumer watchdogs last night accused the Government of engaging in "a revenue raising exercise" in the absence of proper discussion on how to pay for maintenance of our damaged secondary roads network.

"This is just one more way of putting more money into already depleted coffers," Consumers Association of Ireland (CAI) chief executive Dermott Jewell told the Irish Independent.

"This will be another serious blow for motorists who are already contributing more than their fair share of taxes from the moment they buy their car, to the time they ensure and service it."

The NRA last night confirmed it is hiring consultants to help them advise on the new tolling arrangements.

"The authority requires the provision of assistance, advice and management services in connection with existing and future tolling businesses," NRA spokesman Sean O'Neill.

Under the plan, all drivers using the M50 -- regardless of how short the journey -- will have to pay a charge.

Drivers currently only pay a toll on the M50 if they travel across the former West Link bridge between the Lucan and Blanchardstown interchanges.

Thousands of others use the rest of the M50 for free every day.

However, under the new system, motorists using any of the other M50 stretches will also have to pay a toll.

It will now be divided into sections, and a charge applied to each portion used during a journey.

Charges

For example, one stretch between the Lucan and Red Cow interchanges could carry a charge of 50c. Similar charges would be imposed on other sections.

At the same time a driver who travels the full length of the motorway will pay a total of about €3 -- the current charge for the single toll under the plan.

A spokesperson for Transport Minister Leo Varadkar last night insisted a final decision had yet to be made on the new tolls.

However, sources last night said the Government is certain to approve the tolls to generate revenue.

Con_R

And so why are we all paying road tax then?

ronan45

Sickening wtf are we paying hefty road tax.

I took my universal tax fair enough.......
I will take my water charge...........
I took my bin charge....
Even though i paid about 30K in stamp duty just a few years ago ill pay my property tax.....

BUT COME ON, LEAVE OFF NOW, GO WEED OUT THE WASTE IN THE PUBLIC SECTOR THIS IS GETTING RIDICULOUS!

sensibleken

Con_R wrote: »

And so why are we all paying road tax then?

youre not

helimachoptor

It's motor tax

Crazy Horse 6

Con_R wrote: »

And so why are we all paying road tax then?

To pay off the banks. Duh

Bullseye1

I can understand the argument on the M50 but the rest is just a disgrace.

Quazzie

MugMugs wrote: »

"This will be another serious blow for motorists who are already contributing more than their fair share of taxes from the moment they buy their car, to the time they ensure and service it."

Seriously, is the Indo turned into that much of a rag than they can't spell insure?

ShadowHearth

Am I the only one who thinks that deaths will increase after they will toll the living Jesus out of the roads?!

Now people who know back roads wont use the tolled road. They will swap good road to a short back road to save money on tolls. And where are bigger chances of accsidents?!

They are putting one at mallow and I use it everyday to get to work. It will add up atleast 40eu per week just to drive up to work?!

Okay where is that better of the dole thread?

RobAMerc

this is outrageous - we pay enough as it is.
for once we have a forum and surely enough people on it to make a stand.
we have to say enough is enough at some point - a blockade of the m50 is surely called for ?

TrailerBob

I use part of the M9 going to work every day, if they toll it I switch back to the old road and go through Kilcullen, as will hundreds of others, making the motorway pointless... Aaaaarghhh:mad:

willier

Do these morons really expect people to pay a toll on a sub standard single lane road like the N20?? This is typical of the nonsense we've come to expect from the NRA.

CptMackey

This is getting stupid. Once the tolls are put in then the price will never stop going up. I won't use the jack lynch tunnel again if they do toll it. Just have to leave earlier and go thru town. To hell with this country

Crazy Horse 6

RobAMerc wrote: »

this is outrageous - we pay enough as it is.
for once we have a forum and surely enough people on it to make a stand.
we have to say enough is enough at some point - a blockade of the m50 is surely called for ?

Won't happen. Irish people don't do protests in the proper way.

steve9859

TrailerBob wrote: »

I use part of the M9 going to work every day, if they toll it I switch back to the old road and go through Kilcullen, as will hundreds of others, making the motorway pointless... Aaaaarghhh:mad:

But it was never fair that the only people that had to pay for the M50 were the people who used that one stretch with the toll. It is much more equitable now

ronan45

If this goes ahead Im mobilising my ****.


(dusts off airsoft rifle and grins menacingly)

MugMugs

I use the M1, M2 and M50 pretty much every day. For the sake of the 20 mins extra this will push me onto the N52, N2 and Ballycoolin.

I pay €75 a week on Diesel as it is most of which is tax and pay my €300 Motor tax and now I have to pay to use substandard roads. Nice :mad:

TrailerBob

Fair enough with M50, That's a relic from the bridge that could be extended, but tolling every half decent road that we've already paid for with our taxes... Come on.. its not like its a motorway system on a par with France, who have considerable tolls.

MugMugs

TrailerBob wrote: »

Fair enough with M50, That's a relic from the bridge that could be extended, but tolling every half decent road that we've already paid for with our taxes... Come on.. its not like its a motorway system on a par with France, who have considerable tolls.

Agreed however the French dont have Road Tax.

You more or less pay for what you use through Diesel and Tolls

testicle

steve9859 wrote: »

But it was never fair that the only people that had to pay for the M50 were the people who used that one stretch with the toll. It is much more equitable now

You're paying for the use of the bridge, not the motorway.

Langerland

The NRA won't get approval for all of these but I suppose the wider the throw the net the more they'll get. But at the end of the day, they will just drive motorists off the motorways and back into towns and onto backroads. I think the M50 one is particularly interesting. While a alot of the traffic on it might travel about 50% of it, then yes I would say the existing toll catches this to a large extent. But a huge amount of traffic on the M50 is hop on, hop off from one exit to the next by people living and working around it. All of this traffic being pushed back onto the surrounding subburbs would cause unimaginable problems. (Actually, I can imagine it, just like it was before the M50 opened!).

They possibly should have done this before spending millions upgrading it to a 6 lane motorway. With this in place, there will be plenty of spare capacity.

Kashkai

Your motor tax goes into a "ring fenced" fund to provide our local authorities with their funding to spend on local services. It doesn't pay for the upkeep of the roads despite popular belief.

Now don't get me wrong, I hate paying through the nose for everything in this damn country like the rest of the silent majority who have to work for a living, but the fairest thing to do would be to scrap all tolls and motor tax and just add the price onto fuel. That way, those who drive more, pay more (the polluter pays principle).

As for the toll on the M50, its always p1ssed me off that I get caught driving from Lucan to the airport but those who drive from Lucan to Bray don't pay any toll. Bringing in a smaller toll for each stretch would be more equitable.

What this tolling will do though is force people off the motorways and back onto the national roads, clogging up towns and villages again while forcing the taxpayer to then compensate the owners of the new motorways for loss of revenue due to the lower number of cars passing through their tollbooths. This is already happening on the new M3 where the state is paying the road owners compensation because the road is so under utilised. I guess Noel Dempsey, former T.D.'s, belief that "if you build it, they will come", a la Field of Dreams, just didn't pan out.:rolleyes:

daenerysstormborn3

What do we pay our motor tax for then? I was under the impression that the motor tax was revenue to pay for better and upgraded roads. Who is this toll money going to?

CptMackey

pixiebean22 wrote: »

What do we pay our motor tax for then? I was under the impression that the motor tax was revenue to pay for better and upgraded roads. Who is this toll money going to?

Knowing the shower of bastards in the dail it will go to the banks.

AugustusMinimus

Relief for Cork City with nothing about tolling the Lee Tunnel being mentioned.

It's clear to me that Fine Gael are complicit with all this. They are all a shower of *****.

Langerland

Jack Lynch Tunnel was also mentioned on the news this morning....

milehip1

helimachoptor wrote: »

It's motor tax

sensibleken wrote: »

youre not

Con_R wrote: »

And so why are we all paying road tax then?

We pay MOTOR tax so we can drive the vehicle on the ROAD.

no matter what the proper title is, basically its road tax cos no one pays motor tax on their car just to park it outside their house.

Atlantic Dawn

Welcome to the party, motor tax is going up too, it was part of Fine Gaels election manifesto.

Ernest

Its bad enough that the NRA (who uniquely brought us motorways with no service stations!) want to toll more roads but WORSE they want to waste more money on CONSULTANTS to advise them how to do it!!! Do they not have enough "expertise" in-house to figure that out for themselves with all the staff they employ?? If not, Why Not???

steve9859

testicle wrote: »

You're paying for the use of the bridge, not the motorway.

there wouldnt be a motorway if it wasnt for the bridge!

CptMackey

CptMackey wrote: »

Knowing the shower of bastards in the dail it will go to the banks.

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Relief for Cork City with nothing about tolling the Lee Tunnel being mentioned.

It's clear to me that Fine Gael are complicit with all this. They are all a shower of *****.

They need to cash to fund Cowen and Co's guarantee. And the drop in motor tax is due to those Green numpties who reckon folks with a new 520d should pay close to f all motor tax.

fred funk }{

Lads, our motor tax money goes straight into the governments current account. It's not ring fenced for anything.

Magic Beans

You could see this coming when Ben Dover was made Minister for Transport.

MugMugs

steve9859 wrote: »

there wouldnt be a motorway if it wasnt for the bridge!

Which one ?

Bridge 1 or the one they had to build beside bridge 1 because they realised it wasnt big enough for capacity and couldnt be extended therefore resulting in a second bridge having to be built paralell ?

Motor Tax up too ?

guideanna

I would use 2 of the proposed roads twice a day so therefore i'd be paying 4 tolls five days a week at the very least.
I can assure you if these tolls go ahead i will traveling through the towns to avoid paying them.I actually cannot afford any additional expenses on top of my petrol, car tax, insurance, car maintenance and thats not even to mention my mortgage, bin charges, home insurance , social tax, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc....they are sucking what little blood is left out of those people who still have jobs to go to....its getting to the stage where i'd be coming out with more on the JSA than i do working a full time job!!
Country is a mess!

MugMugs

MugMugs wrote: »

...........
Motor Tax up too ?

According to the article it's due to the low motor tax rates that they are proposing this tolling.

Raskolnikov

RoverJames wrote: »

According to the article it's due to the low motor tax rates that they are proposing this tolling.

Why not just increase motor tax then, at least it would cost nothing to collect and the government would recoup all the revenue.

Kashkai

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Lads, our motor tax money goes straight into the governments current account. It's not ring fenced for anything.

Er no it doesn't. It is ring fenced under the Local Government Act so it funds up to 80% of the running costs of the local authorities with the balance supposed to come from rates, water charges on businesses etc. Check the Dept of the Environment's website and search for the Act if you need proof.

We can rant and rave all we want, and I agree with you that we are being royally screwed AGAIN, but its going to happen no matter how much us, the keyboard warriors, object.

For example, Big, Cute Phil Hogan said that water charges would be the law of the land and if people don't pay, then they'd face the full rigours of the law. This proves my long standing theory that we do not live in a real democracy where we elect people to represent what we want. No, we elect people who want power to do what they want.

Tolling roads is just another way to get money from the dumb Irish muppets who might moan and bitch over a pint but will do absolutely NOTHING about it. The IMF must love coming to nice compliant Ireland but I bet they sh1t themselves going to Greece where the prospect of lynching is real;)

Itsdacraic

Imagine being asked to pay a toll to use the N20 at Mallow :eek:
The road is in bits, in fact the whole Limerick to Cork road once you go beyond Croom is a disgrace.

seamus

If they toll the M50 it's going to cause absolute mayhem for traffic in the city. Massive chunks of commuters will avoid the M50, causing most of the city to come to a standstill. People's time is free. They will spend more time in traffic on regional roads if it means not having to pay M50 tolls.

I did the sums here before, but even tolling it at (say) 50c per junction or something like that would be the equivalent of increasing motor tax by €1,000 per year for someone who uses the M50 to get to work. That's money that people just don't have any more.

Won't affect me that much because I'll just avoid the M50 unless I'm going to the airport or the N11, but for much of Dublin the M50 is essential. Anyone who remembers what traffic was like before the southern cross was finished, and even when the M50 was only two lanes - that'll be coming back.

The entire system of taxation for motors needs to be overhauled. In 2010, the state subsidised 60% of all motor transport costs, the other 40% coming from tax on vehicles and fuels. We need to at least turn the balance the other way, but in a more general fashion that people can't just "escape" from by avoiding tolls.

CptMackey

Itsdacraic wrote: »

Imagine being asked to pay a toll to use the N20 at Mallow :eek:
The road is in bits, in fact the whole Limerick to Cork road once you go beyond Croom is a disgrace.

This shows that it is just a money grab. They obviously looked at the aadt of each road and realised that they can catch a huge volume of people for more money. It's a robbery. The NRA should reduce their staff numbers along with the rest of the ps

Raskolnikov

seamus wrote: »

If they toll the M50 it's going to cause absolute mayhem for traffic in the city. Massive chunks of commuters will avoid the M50, causing most of the city to come to a standstill. People's time is free. They will spend more time in traffic on regional roads if it means not having to pay M50 tolls.

If the traffic gets that bad, people will just say damn it and pay the €0.50 or whatever it will cost to go through a particular stage of the M50.

AugustusMinimus

Toll the Lee Tunnel and Cork City centre will grind to a halt.

Traffic on evenings where the tunnel is closed can be very bad in the city centre.

I can only imagine what it would be like on a Friday evening if tolled.


Whats the point of having motorway and bypasses if no one will use them.


Just put 10c on the price of petrol and be done with it. Useless shower of cunts.

Quazzie

More tax on fuel and less on cars would be the best system. It would encourage people to drive more economical cars and also it means that people pay as they drive. It would also catch all the foreign registered cars that currently don't pay tax into our tax system.

Mar4ix

Get back on bicycles. Dont pay them anything... no tolls, roadtax or fuel

Atlantic Dawn

Raskolnikov wrote: »

RoverJames wrote: »

According to the article it's d
ue to the low motor tax rates that they are proposing this tolling.

Why not just increase motor tax then, at least it would cost nothing to collect and the government would recoup all the revenue.

Would be better to abolish it and put it on fuel to tax car use. Tens of millions would be saved for a start in shutting down the motor tax departments of the public service.

godtabh

I've seen the plans (that last update i saw was 12 months ago) and its based on a VISSUM/SATURN model of Dublin

They have basically put a cost on each junction and predicted what price people will pay so that it is more likely to use the M50 than the other road networks.

As seamus pointed out it was a relatively small price per junction but it does add up.

I was going to post the name o the consultants here but dont think thats a good idea to give it out

phog

Instead of all these Tolls we should introduce the Swiss System for tolling motorways and use hefty fines to discourage non compliance.

RedXIV

thing is though, 50c a junction is NOT cheap. its too easy to turn that into a euro a day and then you realise how many days a year you are working.

I'm not gonna lie, I don't disagree with the idea of putting more than one toll on the m50. I currently avoid the one on it now. But I think for it to work and be accepted, you need to literally be paying pennies. 50c off the top of my head is too much but 10c wouldn't bother me.

Raskolnikov

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Would be better to abolish it and put it on fuel to tax car use. Tens of millions would be saved for a start in shutting down the motor tax departments of the public service.

True, but as has been pointed out many times here before, if you were to put motor tax on fuel, you'd be talking about €0.20 a litre, if you're putting tolls on top of that, you're going to add another €0.05-0.10 a litre. You're still getting shafted.

EPM

Itsdacraic wrote: »

Imagine being asked to pay a toll to use the N20 at Mallow :eek:
The road is in bits, in fact the whole Limerick to Cork road once you go beyond Croom is a disgrace.

It's insane. That stretch is an absolute disaster. Croom is the only bypassed town. There are other roads running parallel that are even worse. All this is going to do is put more traffic on those and increase the risks for everyone.