Kildare V Derry July 23rd

Cill Dara Abu

So the pen pushers in Croke Park have decided to arrange a double header of Kildare v Derry (4pm) and Cork v Down (6pm) in Croker on Saturday, this is a ridiculous decision IMO, very few people from Cork are going to travel to this and I cannot see too many from Derry and Down making the journey either, they will be lucky to get 30,000 people to attend.

Anyway Kildare will be clear favourites for this game, mainly because of their impressive performances against Laois and Meath, also the 6 day turn around wont do much for Derry, having said that Kildare would have also less than a week to prepare for this game.

I expect only one change to the Kildare team with Kavanagh to start in place of Rob Kelly in the Corner.

ardmacha

So the pen pushers in Croke Park have decided to arrange a double header of Kildare v Derry (4pm) and Cork v Down (6pm) in Croker on Saturday, this is a ridiculous decision IMO, very few people from Cork are going to travel to this and I cannot see too many from Derry and Down making the journey either, they will be lucky to get 30,000 people to attend.

Why is a Kildare person complaining, as you are the nearest county to Croke Pk?
I don't see why a significant number of Down people should not attend, even if they may well be beaten. Cork and Derry were never going to have much support, but people are as likely to go to Dublin as anywhere.

StupidLikeAFox

Happy enough with the venue, especially from a Kildare perspective. We will be more used to Croke Park. Down mightnt have a bad support, remember theyre only an hour away from Dublin really.

Kildare should win and will be hot favourites but I wouldnt write off Derry just yet. It will be hard to come back from the loss against Donegal but it may just spur them on.

Kildares weakest area is midfield I think. If we can win it in the middle we will dominate the match, if not we could struggle for the game. Without sounding like a broken record I would expect us to be that bit stronger in the final 15 mins to win by around 5 points

Cill Dara Abu

ardmacha wrote: »

Why is a Kildare person complaining, as you are the nearest county to Croke Pk?
I don't see why a significant number of Down people should not attend, even if they may well be beaten. Cork and Derry were never going to have much support, but people are as likely to go to Dublin as anywhere.

Because there will be zero atmosphere at these games, these games should be in provincal grounds like the Kildare Derry game could have been fixed for Mullingar or Breffni park.

DARK-KNIGHT

i know kildare are favourites but i dont like that hanging over us its like a bad omen waiting to bite us in the arse.

i do fancy kildare to win but the less hype the better.

thebullkf

Cill Dara Abu wrote: »

So the pen pushers in Croke Park have decided to arrange a double header of Kildare v Derry (4pm) and Cork v Down (6pm) in Croker on Saturday, this is a ridiculous decision IMO, very few people from Cork are going to travel to this and I cannot see too many from Derry and Down making the journey either, they will be lucky to get 30,000 people to attend.

Anyway Kildare will be clear favourites for this game, mainly because of their impressive performances against Laois and Meath, also the 6 day turn around wont do much for Derry, having said that Kildare would have also less than a week to prepare for this game.

I expect only one change to the Kildare team with Kavanagh to start in place of Rob Kelly in the Corner.

where would you play them...?


EDIT: saw your post.

df1985

no complaints from me, my house to quinns in about half an hour on the maynooth line

jemser

Is the match on tv?

DARK-KNIGHT

jemser wrote: »

Is the match on tv?

Kfm say it is not televised

jemser

Looks like its off to quinns,match,quinns,coppers,strange bed or ditch on saturday so

df1985

shame its not on tv for people working etc but its making others get off their arses and go that have no excuse, time to get out and support them.

blackbelt

I would have switched the Tyrone-Armagh to Croke Park.All northern counties bring a great support to Croke Park and it would be two high profile games in the National Stadium.Add in that Ulster counties support their own,you'd have an added deck stacked on top of Cork.

In fairness to Kildare and Derry,I can only see one result here and thats for Kildare to beat Derry comfortably.Kildare have the better forwards and are more creative up front,wides and all but also Kildare have a better swarm tactic to beat Derrys style of open play.

It feels weird saying that a Leinster team like Kildare will apply a northern style of football and vice versa.

DARK-KNIGHT

blackbelt wrote: »

I would have switched the Tyrone-Armagh to Croke Park.All northern counties bring a great support to Croke Park and it would be two high profile games in the National Stadium.Add in that Ulster counties support their own,you'd have an added deck stacked on top of Cork.

In fairness to Kildare and Derry,I can only see one result here and thats for Kildare to beat Derry comfortably.Kildare have the better forwards and are more creative up front,wides and all but also Kildare have a better swarm tactic to beat Derrys style of open play.

It feels weird saying that a Leinster team like Kildare will apply a northern style of football and vice versa.

it is weird alright but its working and that says a lot for northern football. a lot of counties could take part of the northern game onboard imo

aidan24326

The decision to make this a Croke Park double header could backfire as I can't see there being any sort of a crowd. Kildare will bring good support as always but that's about it. There won't be more than 25K imo.

Kildare will beat Derry I've no doubt about that. Derry without the two Bradleys are toothless in attack. I think Kildare will actually win this one quite comfortably in the end, probably after their customary sluggish start. Kildare by about 7 or 8 I reckon.

JohnnyBomb

Any1 know if theyll open the hill up for the game?? its been said they wont that its only the lower stand even the uppers are closed. any1 know if this is true?

DoctaDee

JohnnyBomb wrote: »

Any1 know if theyll open the hill up for the game?? its been said they wont that its only the lower stand even the uppers are closed. any1 know if this is true?

Emmmmm ... not that it proves yer point .. but you can't buy a ticket for Cnoc16 on ticketmaster

JohnnyBomb

Yeah i saw that but on the gaa site it only says hill may not be open, doesnt say for definite it isnt

ArmaniJeanss

blackbelt wrote: »

I would have switched the Tyrone-Armagh to Croke Park.

Isn't this tie still in the round where one county has home advantage?

keane2097

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Isn't this tie still in the round where one county has home advantage?

It is indeed.

I for one am delighted these two games are on in Croke Park - the joys of being a football fan living in Dublin

doc_17

keane2097 wrote: »

It is indeed.

I for one am delighted these two games are on in Croke Park - the joys of being a football fan living in Dublin

Yeah will be good to watch. I'm tempted to trek up from Donegal to watch them. Big Jim wants all Donegal fans to make a trial run up to Croker so that we'll be well rehearsed for our QF. The man leaves no stone unturned!

Cill Dara Abu

doc_17 wrote: »

Yeah will be good to watch. I'm tempted to trek up from Donegal to watch them. Big Jim wants all Donegal fans to make a trial run up to Croker so that we'll be well rehearsed for our QF. The man leaves no stone unturned!

You better make the most of it :pac:

doc_17

Cill Dara Abu wrote: »

You better make the most of it :pac:

Like yourselves if we have a kind draw in the QF we'll be there in the semi. Hoping for Wexford!

Flukey

For those that are new to the GAA forum, one of the things that comes up every year is what I refer to as the Cork Travel Moan. Basically, if a match is outside Cork, they moan about having to go. Their hurlers are already out, so that should reduce it this year. With Cork and Down being so far from each other Croke Park or a midlands ground were the logical options. Of course, it won't get the same interest as their last encounter, at which time we had all these "loyal" Cork fans telling us how they were entitled to a ticket as they were fans. Should they reach the final this year, the absentees next Saturday will be again posting about their loyalty and entitlement. Kildare will bring a crowd and Derry and Down should be well represented too. I am not certain if I can, but I'd certainly like to go myself. Cork and Kildare to win, but no shock if either go the other way.

Red Mosquito

Cill Dara Abu wrote: »

[
Because there will be zero atmosphere at these games, these games should be in provincal grounds like the Kildare Derry game could have been fixed for Mullingar or Breffni park.

Agreed, there was great atmosphere over the past two weeks in Navan and Port Laoise. Must be huge issue for the GAA

princemuzzy

Stuck in work anybody know if RTE are streaming it on the player?

mightyreds

yeah its a pity rtes (altough coverage has gotten better) isnt more extensive,i'm away at the minute even though i have got to see kildares last 4/5 games i'd still like to see this it will be a good game especially when theres no game over lapping with it why wouldnt they show it. looks like kfm tonight for the game.. i see kildare winning by 5 though thought meath could of bet us last week dont have the same fear though this week..could end up eating my words

Ken.

R.T.E aren't showing the game online, however on bbc.co.uk it says '
All-Ireland Football qualifier: Kildare v Derry

• Venue: Croke Park
• Date: 23 July
• Throw-in: 1600 BST
• Coverage: Live commentary on BBC Radio Ulster MW and BBC website

Now i'm not sure if that means their showing the game live on their website or if its just the radio commentary.

ArmaniJeanss

mightyreds wrote: »

yeah its a pity rtes (altough coverage has gotten better) isnt more extensive,i'm away at the minute even though i have got to see kildares last 4/5 games i'd still like to see this it will be a good game especially when theres no game over lapping with it why wouldnt they show it.

RTE have no broadcast rights to the game, I'm sure they would show it if they could. TV3 won the only available package for this round of qualifiers, the 'package' being one live match.

The biggest issue for GAA people should be the nature of the packages that the GAA are selling and the TV companies are bidding for - there is a whole heap of nonsense football provincial quarter finals and semi finals available.
Yet the knockout games in the 4 rounds of qualifiers see only game per round broadcast.

So we get to see Kerry v Limerick in a Munster semi or Sligo v Roscommon in a last 8 Connacht game in which no-one gets knocked out, but not a heavyweight knockout game between Galway and Meath or Tyrone and Armagh or Kildare and Derry. This is a farce and I'm surprised more isn't being made of it by GAA people.

princemuzzy

lucyfur09 wrote: »

R.T.E aren't showing the game online, however on bbc.co.uk it says '
All-Ireland Football qualifier: Kildare v Derry

• Venue: Croke Park
• Date: 23 July
• Throw-in: 1600 BST
• Coverage: Live commentary on BBC Radio Ulster MW and BBC website

Now i'm not sure if that means their showing the game live on their website or if its just the radio commentary.

just commentary i think

jemser

Is there anywhere online to watch the match??

mightyreds

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

RTE have no broadcast rights to the game, I'm sure they would show it if they could. TV3 won the only available package for this round of qualifiers, the 'package' being one live match.

The biggest issue for GAA people should be the nature of the packages that the GAA are selling and the TV companies are bidding for - there is a whole heap of nonsense football provincial quarter finals and semi finals available.
Yet the knockout games in the 4 rounds of qualifiers see only game per round broadcast.

So we get to see Kerry v Limerick in a Munster semi or Sligo v Roscommon in a last 8 Connacht game in which no-one gets knocked out, but not a heavyweight knockout game between Galway and Meath or Tyrone and Armagh or Kildare and Derry. This is a farce and I'm surprised more isn't being made of it by GAA people.

yeah i think its they might be afriad of dropping ticket sales but the way i see it is if i could go to the match i would no matter if its on telly or not i'd say most are in the same boat.

i agree a hundred percent missing all the good heavyweight knockout games is a dissappointment far enough if there is a better game on, but i think they should try maximise tv coverage especially when there no rival games on at 4 and if you started it at 3 you could have a triple bill on telly..

GAA_PUNTER

For those of you that cannot get to a radio or the match

Kildare v Derry live match tracker commentary
http://www.sportsnewsireland.com/gaa/40953/

Its very hard to see past Kildare with loosing provincial finalists with such a shocking record.

John Doyle will write his name into GAA history books if he gets on the scoresheet this weekend. Meanwhile opponents Derry have spent the build up whinging about playing a game a week after defeat in the Ulster Final.

If the Kildare talisman makes the umpire raise a flag against Derry – which seems inevitable – it will be the 50th consecutive championship match in which he has scored.

Doyle made his intercounty debut against Louth in 2000 and has played in every Kildare championship match since – 55 in total. The 2000 All-Ireland semi-final against Galway was the second and last time he failed to score.

This means he has scored in every championship game Kildare have played since the 2001 Leinster opener against Carlow. Despite playing most of this year at midfield due to injuries in the squad, the versatile Allenwood clubman is still the Lilywhites’ top scorer with 2-15.

He is also just two points shy of becoming the first player to rack up 100 points in the qualifiers – another landmark he should reach on Saturday at Croke Park.

Kildare blew Meath away last weekend in Navan and this week’s game against the Ulstermen promises to be a cracker. It has also re-ignited the old row over counties playing qualifiers straight after provincial finals.

Last Sunday, Derry hoped to end a 13-year wait for the Ulster championship while still having two lives left in the All-Ireland race. By 5.30pm this Saturday, their season may be over, having lost to Donegal in the Ulster final and to Kildare in the All-Ireland qualifiers.

It could be termed the six-day turnaround from hell, one which 11 teams have endured since the introduction of the qualifiers 10 years ago.

Only one county — Dublin in 2001 — have won a fourth-round qualifier game six days after losing a provincial final, underlying just how difficult it is to recharge the batteries so soon after a big disappointment. Forcing counties to play on the weekend after losing a provincial final became such a controversial issue over the last two years that Monaghan, who themselves were victims last year, brought a motion to Congress last April, proposing a minimum 13-day gap. However thus is the beauty of this weekends games, shoot to the finish, no quarter just who wants it the most.

It won on a 60-40 vote but was rejected because it didn’t receive the two-thirds majority required to change a rule.

It leaves Derry facing a massive task in Croke Park on Saturday, a fate which would also have befallen Roscommon except for the Wicklow-Armagh second-round qualifier draw. That forced the Armagh-Tyrone Round 3 game back to this weekend, giving Roscommon a 13-day gap before they face the winners.

It’s a lucky break, one which eluded Derry who are trying to re-energise themselves after last Sunday’s defeat to be ready for a Kildare team that have two morale-boosting qualifier wins behind them over the last two Saturdays. In fairness to Kildare though they also have been playing. The Ulstermen need to concentrate fully on the pitch.

For those of you attending the game, it is interesting to check the GAA stats on the play offs, Sligo and Antrim were, over the last two years, among the counties who experienced the difficulty of facing into Round 4 qualifiers on the weekend after losing a provincial final and insist that it’s extremely difficult.

Sligo manager Kevin Walsh, speaking to the media this week, said that it can be especially hard for a team that had genuinely expected to win a provincial final to refocus so quickly. Sligo were favourites against Roscommon in last year’s Connacht final and, having lost by a point, were easy pickings for Down in the qualifiers, losing by 19 points.

“We needed a bit of time to get ourselves sorted out after losing so narrowly to Roscommon,” Walsh said.”We did all we could but six days wasn’t enough. You think you’re okay and that you’ve picked things up but when you come up against a team who have a few wins behind them, it can unravel quite easily.”

Antrim captain Kevin O’Boyle experienced the quick turnaround after losing the 2009 Ulster final to Tyrone, facing up to Kerry the following Sunday. Antrim played quite well but lost by five points.

“You nearly always have a few injury niggles after a provincial final and they feel that bit worse when you’ve lost. It’s hard to get ready for another big game in six days or even a week, especially against a team that’s on a roll,” said O’Boyle.

Both Walsh and O’Boyle believe that in the interests of fairness, the scheduling should be changed.

“Why is it that the beaten Connacht and Ulster finalists are out again in six days every year?” asked Walsh. “Roscommon got lucky this year because of the delay in the earlier rounds, but otherwise they would be out again on Saturday. How come Leinster and Munster finalists get a break every year?”

O’Boyle pointed to Cork, who will have had a three-week break between losing the Munster final and playing Down in the qualifiers. “It gives Cork a chance to work on things in training while also being able to study the opposition in detail. There’s a big difference between that and having to play again in six days, which Derry have to do,” he said.

Ulster Council president Aogan Farrell said that the scheduling which left beaten Ulster and Connacht finalists facing the quick turnaround for the third successive year would have to be examined. “If it’s necessary to play Round 4 so soon after provincial finals — and in fairness there are severe fixture pressures everywhere — it’s only fair to look at rotation among the provinces so that all four of them take their turn with the quick turnaround,” he said.

However, he defended Ulster’s practice of playing their championships on successive weekends rather than doubling up with a few games and playing the final earlier.

The six-day turnaround for beaten provincial finalists applied between 2001 and ’04, after which counties were guaranteed a minimum 13-day gap. However, the GAA reverted to the six-day system in ’09 after complaints from counties that club programmes were being badly disrupted by the championship format.

Galway, Sligo (Connacht), Antrim, Monaghan and Derry (Ulster) have been the unlucky victims since then, while Roscommon were saved by the Wicklow-Armagh draw. Roscommon’s tie with Armagh or Derry had to go back by a week, raising the question of why Derry couldn’t be similarly facilitated.

Walsh said: “It’s not impossible to win in six days but the results over the years speak for themselves.”

O’Boyle believes that the poor returns by those forced into the six-day turnaround is now proving to be something of a psychological block.

“The more teams see how hard it is to get ready, the harder it becomes. You’d have to think there’s a better way of running the championship than forcing a team who lost a provincial final back into action six days later,” he said.

Turnaround troubles
Tom Carr’s Dublin (2001) are the only county to have won a fourth-round qualifier tie on the weekend after losing a provincial final since the back door was opened 10 years ago. Eleven others tried and failed, mostly on a six-day turnaround:

2001

Dublin (beat Sligo 3-17 to 0-12)

Cork (lost to Galway 1-14 to 1-10)

2002

Tipperary (lost to Mayo 0-21 to 1-14)

2003

Down (lost to Donegal 3-15 to 2-10)

Limerick (lost to Armagh 4-10 to 0-11)

Kildare (lost to Roscommon 1-18 to 0-19, after extra-time)

2004

Limerick (lost to Derry 0-10 to 0-7)

Laois (lost to Tyrone 3-15 to 2-4)

2009

Galway (lost to Donegal 0-14 to 0-13)

Antrim (lost to Kerry 2-12 to 1-10)

2010

Sligo (lost to Down 3-20 to 0-10)

Monaghan (lost to Kildare 1-15 to 1-11)

Johner

Ah boy Robert Kelly!

ArmaniJeanss

GAA_PUNTER wrote: »

2001
Dublin (beat Sligo 3-17 to 0-12)
Cork (lost to Galway 1-14 to 1-10)

2002
Tipperary (lost to Mayo 0-21 to 1-14)

2003
Down (lost to Donegal 3-15 to 2-10)
Limerick (lost to Armagh 4-10 to 0-11)
Kildare (lost to Roscommon 1-18 to 0-19, after extra-time)

2004
Limerick (lost to Derry 0-10 to 0-7)
Laois (lost to Tyrone 3-15 to 2-4)

2009
Galway (lost to Donegal 0-14 to 0-13)
Antrim (lost to Kerry 2-12 to 1-10)

2010
Sligo (lost to Down 3-20 to 0-10)
Monaghan (lost to Kildare 1-15 to 1-11)

A lot of these results call into question whether there is actually a real '6 day turnaround problem'. Very few of the results were shocks as such. Galway 2009 and Kildare 2003 were probably the only team who would have been bookies favourites and they only lost by a point and in extra time respectively.
The rest of the results went to form - Laois losing to Tyrone, Antrim losing to Kerry or Limerick losing to Armagh & Derry can hardly be put forward as proof of 6 days being a disadavantage. You'd have expected much the same scoreline line if they'd be given a 6 week rest.

mightyreds

listening to it here on rte 1 is it just me or is one of the commentators very derry biased derrys goal was definitly a goal till he watched it again then it was a little bit of a foul then he watched it again and it wasnt a goal but it would of gave the game a good edge,then emmet bolton missed and he said pity he didnt do that last week, why? is he a meath man i dont know the name of the commentator sorry, all kildare frees seem to be given incorrectly, kildare just hit a wide but the reason they got in is cause derry are working much harder but leaving tom conor in 1 on 1 inside cause they are working that much harder than kildare its an oversight, i dont understand it.

JonathanAnon

mightyreds wrote: »

is he a meath man i dont know the name of the commentator sorry, all kildare frees seem to be given incorrectly,

yeah Bernard Flynn.. I've posted about him before.. O'Rourke actually does a really good job of being objective when he's commentating on stuff.. But Flynn is just ridiculously biased..

blackbelt

How is the game going?Stuck in work til 8pm with no other access to scores.

mightyreds

ha ha its not so bad though probably just feels a bit agrieved after last week.. he did give kildare a compliment coming towards the end of the half, it was getting comical by then cant wait for the second half!!

it was funny actually with the goal when he watched the replay he said it was a little bit of an offside and a little bit of a goal and the other guy brian i think (usually listen to kfm but its not working) says its either right or wrong man ya cant be half and half,it was very funny!!

SwanVsDalton

0-11 to 0-08 at HT for Kildare.

I'm listening to the BBC commentary - Enda Muldoon had a goal ruled out for square ball which was a good goal apparently. The umpires behind the goal are the ref's brother and 19-year-old son. :eek:

blackbelt

SwanVsDalton wrote: »

0-11 to 0-08 at HT for Kildare.

I'm listening to the BBC commentary - Enda Muldoon had a goal ruled out for square ball which was a good goal apparently. The umpires behind the goal are the ref's brother and 19-year-old son. :eek:

Must be the same referee that refereed the Leinster match between Meath and Kildare.Sounds like Derry are putting in some display to keep up with them.

We'll find out now today if Kildare really are a second half team.

mightyreds

SwanVsDalton wrote: »

0-11 to 0-08 at HT for Kildare.

I'm listening to the BBC commentary - Enda Muldoon had a goal ruled out for square ball which was a good goal apparently. The umpires behind the goal are the ref's brother and 19-year-old son. :eek:

but you have to remember thats ulster radio i'm sure kildare radio is saying it was definitly a square ball!! radio 1 said it was a good call and it took alot for them to admit it!! kildare did pull away in the second half after all!

naughto

19 -13 to kildare one minute left

blackbelt

mightyreds wrote: »

but you have to remember thats ulster radio i'm sure kildare radio is saying it was definitly a square ball!! radio 1 said it was a good call and it took alot for them to admit it!! kildare did pull away in the second half after all!

BBC and Ulster as a whole are very clannish and stick together against other province teams.That should not come as a surprise.Its like one huge county.

As for the result,not a huge surprise.Derry must have played well but again momentum plus Kildares physical conditioning were always going to pull them through.

Gingy

http://www.sportsfile.com/id/538164/

Looks like a pretty clear cut square ball. I thought Derry did well enough, considering the quick turnaround after the Ulster final. Kildare though are a quality team and will put it up to anyone in the next round.

keane2097

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

A lot of these results call into question whether there is actually a real '6 day turnaround problem'. Very few of the results were shocks as such. Galway 2009 and Kildare 2003 were probably the only team who would have been bookies favourites and they only lost by a point and in extra time respectively.
The rest of the results went to form - Laois losing to Tyrone, Antrim losing to Kerry or Limerick losing to Armagh & Derry can hardly be put forward as proof of 6 days being a disadavantage. You'd have expected much the same scoreline line if they'd be given a 6 week rest.

The margin of some of the defeats is telling though.

Teams might have been beaten more or less where expected, but as you know bookie's favourites aren't supposed to win 100% of the time, and the magnitude of some of the losses are interesting.

eigrod

Cork fan here. Was really impressed with the Kildare corner back in this game - Hugh McGrillen, was it ? He covered some ground and got a fantastic point.

Has he been around for the last few years? Can't say I noticed too much of him before.

Cill Dara Abu

^^^ Yes Hugh McGrillen from Celbridge, you should check out his point in the last game against Meath, he's having a great year as he did last year.

eigrod

Cill Dara Abu wrote: »

^^^ Yes Hugh McGrillen from Celbridge, you should check out his point in the last game against Meath, he's having a great year as he did last year.

Will do. Should have a strong shout for an All Star so. He certainly looked up to it on Saturday last.