sons dad drunk picking him up

LegacyUser

im at my wits end here so apologies if this drags on a bit!

the last 2 weekends my sons dad has been under the influence of drink when he has picked him up or attempted to pick him up i should say.

He has an access order. I go above and beyond the order so they get to see each other more than is specified as my son deserves it.

Last weekend his dad turned up at the hospital, had to bring my son in to casualty, out of his tree on drink at 10 in the morning.

this weekend he drove up to my house in his mothers car to collect my son. didnt notice anything too out of the ordinary bar he was asking loads of questions and hardly came near me, i thought it was cos i was a bit cool after is act the previous weekend in the hospital, until he opened the front door to leave and the whif of drink of him hit me. i refused to let my son go. he said something about getting nanny and i thought i misheard as he had driven up on his own in the car. turns out he dropped his mother somewhere, drove up to us to pick up my son. As he knew if he landed with his mother driving i would have known he was drinking either today or last night but was still not sober. his excuse as to why his mother was with him... she wanted to look in the shops... it was 6.20 on a sunday evening... what shower does he think i came down in?

I have now broken the access order but i had no choice. this is getting beyond a joke.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I can do or been in a similar situation? I intend going to the court tomorrow to explain things and why i had to break the order today and last weekend but it wont be the courthouse that the order was made in as we dont live in the same county.

Im so lost and feel so sorry for my poor wee boy

any suggestions would be good!

Taltos

OP you need to seek legal advice on this especially since you are now in breach of the order.

iceman777

Every time it happens, go to your local Garda Station and let them take note of it happening. Simply tell them you are breaking the access order due to the inability of your son's father to stay sober and you are worried about your son's safety in his drunken care.

A friend of mine had to do this with his ex-spouse and he recorded it with the Guards every time it happened so if it ends up in family court, you have done everything correctly and simply put your son's safety first.

Best of luck.

metrovelvet

If I were in your position I would have called the guards to have them send up an officer with a breathaliser and report why you are breaking the access order otherwise he can just deny it in court. If its on paper and witnessed by a guard he has very little comeback.

As you have court tomorrow, I would go straight down and put it on record at the guards, however because you are a day in delay reporting this and have no witness it may not carry much weight, but might be worth doing.

Safety first. You did the right thing.

Stench Blossoms

metrovelvet wrote: »

If I were in your position I would have called the guards to have them send up an officer with a breathaliser and report why you are breaking the access order otherwise he can just deny it in court. If its on paper and witnessed by a guard he has very little comeback.

As you have court tomorrow, I would go straight down and put it on record at the guards, however because you are a day in delay reporting this and have no witness it may not carry much weight, but might be worth doing.

Safety first. You did the right thing.

That's a good idea metrovelvet but in reality it wouldn't work. The guards take their time when a burglary is happening so something like this would be put on the end of the list and she could be waiting hours before they show up.

But in saying that, by ringing the guards at the time and requesting this and informing them then that she's breaking the access order unless she knows he's not over the limit might work.

They'll have a record of her rinigng them when she goes back to court.

metrovelvet

Stench Blossoms wrote: »

That's a good idea metrovelvet but in reality it wouldn't work. The guards take their time when a burglary is happening so something like this would be put on the end of the list and she could be waiting hours before they show up.

But in saying that, by ringing the guards at the time and requesting this and informing them then that she's breaking the access order unless she knows he's not over the limit might work.

They'll have a record of her rinigng them when she goes back to court.

They cant take their time when there is child potential child endangerment. Add the drunk driving and they definitely cant take their time.

A guardian CANNOT let their child into a car with a drunk driver, or that guardian is culpable even if it means breaking an access order, but it has to be on record, there has to be a paper trail, not on paper, it didnt happen.

ladygirl

You have 100% done the right thing,,, but you now need to record EVERY instance of this at your gardai station..

If your access order is up for review and you need to go back to court, then you can be sure he will deny that he has been under the influence of alcohol (he will make out that you are making up excuses as you dont want him to see the child).. so for this reason I would strongly suggest you speak to your local gardai about trying to catch him drink driving!! at least then there will be a record of charges and it will prove that he does in fact drink drive....

for the time being - keep doing what you are doing - and in NO WAY should you allow your child into his car when he is drunk.. (I personally think you should not leave your child around him when he is drunk at any time as it is not a good environment for children to be in)

Best of luck OP
xxxx

LegacyUser

Hey guys thanks for all the replies.

so i went to the district court office this morning where i live but they couldnt do a thing for me as its out of there jurisdiction and told me to ring the court where the order was made. Rang them and they said seek legal advise and try and get the order varied but that wont solve anything for me this week or next as ive already missed the court date for july and august court only sits for emergencies and not sure if they'd see this as an emergency. I did request that she note on the file the reason the order was broken the last 2 weekends which she did, have to say she was very nice as some can make you feel like a criminal just for ringing them!!

I have made an appointment with FLAC for some legal advise as legal aid is a joke wont even advise you unless your on there books already.

I know i should have rung the guards the minute my suspicions were aroused but it so caught me on the hop especially with the whole hiding his mother thing that i never even thought of it until they were gone about an hour. I was actually expecting him to go to the guards saying i wouldnt let him take his son, but thinking about it sure he couldnt if he was over the limit!

In fairness i dont want to stop him seeing his son but how can i justify giving my son to a drunk. why do people have to make life so damn difficult when there is absolutely no need for it.

replica

Wheretorun, apart from being the childs mother, every adult has a duty of care to a child. Knowingly placing your child in a situation where he/she could be in harm is wrong. I would have an informal consultation with the HSE or the child welfare officer at your local garda station, that way you have documentation to back up your absolute right to protect your child. If the courts do not take on board your concerns at the very least you will have done everything to raise your concerns. I dont envy you and I realise that my advice comes from outside the box as I am not in your situation. I do however empathise with you.

LegacyUser

replica wrote: »

Wheretorun, apart from being the childs mother, every adult has a duty of care to a child. Knowingly placing your child in a situation where he/she could be in harm is wrong. I would have an informal consultation with the HSE or the child welfare officer at your local garda station, that way you have documentation to back up your absolute right to protect your child. If the courts do not take on board your concerns at the very least you will have done everything to raise your concerns. I dont envy you and I realise that my advice comes from outside the box as I am not in your situation. I do however empathise with you.

Thanks replica. I spoke to a social worker informally yesterday and she more or less said everything that you just said. As my sons protective parent and despite there being an order in place if i have concerns then Im not to let him go. She also said i must contact both himself and his mother and inform them that what they are doing is totally unacceptable but I know it will fall on deaf ears and they wont pass a bit of heed so instead ive written them letters and kept a copy. going to send them by registered post today.

Only thing is now i dont know what the story with access is now. i havent heard a thing from him since he drove away from here. I absolutely dont intend making first contact after him trying to make a fool of me but god i need a break and a sleep in!

replica

Wheretoturn: I was going to pm you, but as your not a registered member I cant. Anyhow what I would add is keep a diary etc of evertything that is said, happens etc. Document your concerns, who you speak to officially etc etc. As regards access... if you have a solicitor consult them formally or even go back to the social worker and ask them for advice. Make sure you get the social workers name and also document that. At the end of the day every piece of paper you have will be worth keeping. The voice of experience tells me that even in years to come should your sons father play the motional black mail game... (hoping he wont) you will have the evidence to give your son. Your son is your main concern but you also are entitled to a life. I hope this sorts itself asap. In the meantime and in all sincerity, your son is a lucky lad to have a mother who cares so much about him.

iceman777

As said by other posters, I think you should document everything in terms of communication. Letters are great and as you are doing, keep a copy of each one you send, but also state in the beginning of the letter why you are sending it.

Texts sent/received are often overlooked, and you should keep track of these as well. You can easily back-up your texts onto your computer instead of them clogging up your phone by using applications such as MyPhoneExplorer to synch them etc.

You mention that you have had no contact since the last incident, but please be present for the next delegated time for him to see his son. Make no assumptions that he won't turn up and everytime he misses a session, take note of it (apologies if I sound judgemental).

I understand it's a lot of administration, but it will stand to you in the long run if you do this as it shows that you are putting your son first.

LegacyUser

iceman777 wrote: »

Texts sent/received are often overlooked, and you should keep track of these as well. You can easily back-up your texts onto your computer instead of them clogging up your phone by using applications such as MyPhoneExplorer to synch them etc.

You mention that you have had no contact since the last incident, but please be present for the next delegated time for him to see his son. Make no assumptions that he won't turn up and everytime he misses a session, take note of it (apologies if I sound judgemental).

Iceman I learned a long time ago not to send text messages about stuff like this. I only ever text him to arrange drop off times or things like that!

Its not that im not going to turn up for the next access times but its more that i dont even know when it should be! Sunday was meant to be the start of my sons 2 week summer access with his dad. Saying that the dad was meant to be going sick to take him instead of doing the decent thing and booking holidays like a normal person! he also missed the previous weekend as the child was in hospital in the morning and he landed TANKED so no access. Now I know dont know what comes next!

In fairness if i rang him and said he could now take him for the remainder of his 2 weeks providing he was sober picking him up he'd probably refuse as he knows im going away for the weekend and out of spite would probably refuse. If he wasnt on hols i suppose *checks calender on phone* it would be a long weekend for access but im not going to be here to suss things out and i cant leave it up to my dad its not his fight.

Im going to wait and see if i get any responce from the letters i sent, cost me 10.50 to post the f***ing yokes near dropped at the till!!

Oh and I spoke to a solicitor and although i 'technically' broke the access order i didnt really as it was in protection of my son... that is the only time it is allowed.... straight from a solicitors mouth for anyone else whos ever in a similar situation. So breaking the order to protect your child is backed up by a solicitor and a social worker

discus

This is all very subjective. "tanked", "whiff of drink" etc, could all be construed differently. Some would consider tanked to be "blacked out", others would think it's the 5 pint mark.

Having said that, you did the right thing. Particularly your lenience in giving your ex some decent access. It'll be good for your son, as long as the ex sorts himself out.

LegacyUser

discus wrote: »

This is all very subjective. "tanked", "whiff of drink" etc, could all be construed differently. Some would consider tanked to be "blacked out", others would think it's the 5 pint mark.

Having said that, you did the right thing. Particularly your lenience in giving your ex some decent access. It'll be good for your son, as long as the ex sorts himself out.

when i say tanked i mean extremely drunk, at 10am in the morning, like he had only stopped drinking before he got in the cawith his mother.

when i say there was a whif of drink i smelled alcohol on his breathe. I know anyone after having a few drinks the night before can smell of drink for a few hours the next day but this was six in the evening, when i asked him to breathe on me he refused, if he had nothing to hide why wouldnt he do it? and the fact that he had his mother drive him up only went to strenghten my suspicion that he was over the limit.

So after reading icemans post a few times I decided to text him so that what i said i could document and i didnt think i could talk to him on the phone without getting mad. I told him i would bring our son down tomorrow and he could pick him up at my mothers house and have him for the remainder of the 2 weeks he was meant to have him. he text me back and said he was working and that the court order said i had to drop him out. like how much further does he think he can push me before i snap fully. so anyways I explained that the order gave no direction as to drop off and pick up for the 2 week holiday and he went on to dictate to me that he would pick our son up on friday and take him for a weeks holidays and take the other week when he got time off. who on earth does he think he is after his behaviour the last fortnight he is still trying to bully me and dictate when and how he sees our son and there not the slightest bit of remorse or apology for his behaviour! I simply said your son will be where i told you he will be at the time i told you and if you dont pick him up i will take it that you are forfeiting your holiday as i will not rearrange my whole life to keep you happy as he specified these 2 weeks, it wasnt me telling him when he could take him he requested these 2. I also said i would only rearrange the 2-3 days he has missed so far out of the 2 weeks. And no word back at all. so now im back in the same position as i was this morning! not knowing what is going on!

I swear i feel like packing up and disappearing. why is he trying to make my life so difficult. he has the best of both worlds he gets to see his son, pays sweet f all maintenance and has the rest of the week to do whatever he pleases. I just cant seem to satisy this man no matter what i do. he just doesnt seem to realise how much i dedicate to him seeing his son.

metrovelvet

The paradigm that is built into access law is that the child must be available to the parent, and the parent can avail of it or not avail of it. I have no doubt in time this will change, it has already started changing in certain states in the US as family courts are fed up of disappointed kids and access orders not being honoured by both parties. However, as of now, it is about the child's availablity to the father. If there is nothing in the order about pick ups and drop offs, then you are not obliged to facilitate this part of it.

Saying that, should he not show up for access, or show up incapacitated, you MUST keep records of this, in case you ever want to ammend the access order if the access order is not being honoured.

On a more strategic note, perhaps you should stop bending over backwards to accommodate him since it has given him a fat head where he feels he can make conditions and demands. You have a court order, follow it and that's it.

And if he is paying no maintenance dont send the clothes you pay for packed in a bag for this holiday. Let him buy the child clothes, toys, all the stuff, so he gets a taste of how the cost runs up.

On a more philosophical note, court orders operate on minimums, and kids need maximums. Thats the badside of them. I hope you both get to a place where you can move towards more maximums.

LegacyUser

metrovelvet wrote: »

The paradigm that is built into access law is that the child must be available to the parent, and the parent can avail of it or not avail of it. I have no doubt in time this will change, it has already started changing in certain states in the US as family courts are fed up of disappointed kids and access orders not being honoured by both parties. However, as of now, it is about the child's availablity to the father. If there is nothing in the order about pick ups and drop offs, then you are not obliged to facilitate this part of it.

Saying that, should he not show up for access, or show up incapacitated, you MUST keep records of this, in case you ever want to ammend the access order if the access order is not being honoured.

On a more strategic note, perhaps you should stop bending over backwards to accommodate him since it has given him a fat head where he feels he can make conditions and demands. You have a court order, follow it and that's it.

And if he is paying no maintenance dont send the clothes you pay for packed in a bag for this holiday. Let him buy the child clothes, toys, all the stuff, so he gets a taste of how the cost runs up.

On a more philosophical note, court orders operate on minimums, and kids need maximums. Thats the badside of them. I hope you both get to a place where you can move towards more maximums.

up until now we have been getting on quiet well and the child has been benefiting tremendously from it. until he decides to go on a bender and then its the bare minimum, following the court order to the word. he starts being awkward and spiteful as for some reason he has no idea how to apologise or never feels remorse for any of his actions. its like he has no soul or conscience or something!

i never send clothes anymore i stopped doing that long ago. he goes with the clothes on his back and his teddy in his hand.

we'll see how things fair out today, roll on 4pm so i actually know what is happening, hate being in limbo!

replica

Well how did 4pm go yesterday?

LegacyUser

replica wrote: »

Well how did 4pm go yesterday?

no show!

so decided he wasnt going to ruin my weekend so myself and mum brought my son out to his home house and handed him over to his dads sister and said we were dropping him out for his holidays, kissed him goodbye and just left.

Would have loved to have been a fly on the wall after we left and he realised what we did. I know in a way I gave in too his smart request to drop the boy out but at the end of the day I need a break and had this weekend has been planned since xmas so wasnt letting him stand in my way. Havent heard a peep from him either!

replica

How did the weekend go?

LegacyUser

replica wrote: »

How did the weekend go?

Mighty! had a blast!

Came home to a solicitors letter from the paternal grandmother claiming i was making unfounded allegations and looking to have them retracted! she is also claiming that the letter i sent was designedto make an impression in support of future or further complaints that i wish to lay against her son!

what the hell!! all i did was request that she not drive her son to pick up my son when he was drunk.