Losing weight & gaining muscle.

Stargazer7

Hi guys, just looking for a bit of advice here. I know the premise of losing weight is more cals out vs. more cals in. At the moment I'm restricting my carb intake to a bowl of porridge in the mornings and some rice cakes/corn cakes during the day and keeping with low fat, low sugar foods i.e. lots of veg and lean protein. I'm working out 3-5 times a week, usually ~40 mins cardio and some weights.

I'm just wondering are losing weight and gaining muscle mutually exclusive. I read on this forum that you need excess cals to grow muscle so it appears to me that maybe my weight training combined with cardio and restricted calorie intake is pointless? Should I try to lose the fat first and then focus on toning up?

Thanks for the info

Frogdog

Can we have a bit more info on you (sex, age etc), a sample of your daily diet and what exactly you do in the gym?

Stargazer7

No problem!

I'm female, 22, ~11st.

Typical gym visits consist of 30-40 mins cardio - sometimes 5km on treadmill or a mix of rowing, treadmill and crosstrainer for the same duration. High intensity - my heartrate is usually in the cardio training range e.g. last time I checked it was 180.

Besides that I either go and do one of those 30 min circuits that they have in curves gyms and/or a minute of reps on a number of resistance machines. I use the circuit machines for this also, just up the resistance. I usually do about 7 machines, focusing on biceps, triceps, tummy and thighs. I would give you an estimate of the weights I'm lifting but they do it on a scale of 1-10, not kgs unfortunately! Very annoying.

As for my typical diet of late - I've fallen off the wagon a bit this weekend but over the past two weeks my diet has been like below:

Breakfast - Porridge made with water. Low fat milk & granulated sweetener.

11/12 break - 1 tbsp of peanut butter/ 1 piece of fruit.

Lunch: Green salad of lettuce, tomato, peppers, onion, beetroot. Plus 1 can tuna/ 2 hard boiled eggs/ half can of mixed beans

3 rice/corn cakes & low fat cream cheese

5/6pm snack: Same as 11/12

Dinner: Turkey burgers/turkey steak/chicken or beef stir fry. Soy sauce or thai green curry paste for seasoning. Lots of mixed veg.

2/3 rice/corn cakes.

Late Evening snack of low fat fruit yogurt or natural yogurt & raspberries.

I try to drink as much water as I can but I'm up and down with it. Drink 3/4 cups of tea during the day plus low fat milk.

Frogdog

It seems to me as if you're eating a lot, do you know how many calories daily you're eating? And I'd drop those rice/corn cakes if I were you. They're devoid of nutrition and are a junk food in my opinion.

As for your exercise, I don't see it leading to any significant gains or benefits. Curves is a scam in my opinion again. And machine weights aren't great. If you could find someone to show you a free weights routine focusing on the compound lifts then that would be much more beneficial. Switch your cardio to doing intervals, ie. fast for 30 second, slow for 1 minute and repeat.

Stargazer7

Frogdog wrote: »

It seems to me as if you're eating a lot, do you know how many calories daily you're eating? And I'd drop those rice/corn cakes if I were you. They're devoid of nutrition and are a junk food in my opinion.

As for your exercise, I don't see it leading to any significant gains or benefits. Curves is a scam in my opinion again. And machine weights aren't great. If you could find someone to show you a free weights routine focusing on the compound lifts then that would be much more beneficial. Switch your cardio to doing intervals, ie. fast for 30 second, slow for 1 minute and repeat.

Thanks for the advice. But no gains or benefits to the exercise? Isn't that a bit negative? I agree with the curves thing. I'm also still curious as to whether anyone can advise me on number of calories for weight loss vs. number needed for weight can? Can one be done at the same time as the other?

I did 20 mins of rowing yesterday ~ 4,300m and rowed fast for each 100m before a 500m interval. Besides that it was 12 mins on the cross trainer and the last 10 split between stair machine and treadmill. I have dropped a few pounds already - need to get a digital scales.

I am aware that the forum is pretty negative on carbs but why are rice cakes so devoid of nutrition? Not being smart, just genuinely looking for advice.

Thanks again.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Frogdog wrote: »

It seems to me as if you're eating a lot, do you know how many calories daily you're eating? And I'd drop those rice/corn cakes if I were you. They're devoid of nutrition and are a junk food in my opinion.

As for your exercise, I don't see it leading to any significant gains or benefits. Curves is a scam in my opinion again. And machine weights aren't great. If you could find someone to show you a free weights routine focusing on the compound lifts then that would be much more beneficial. Switch your cardio to doing intervals, ie. fast for 30 second, slow for 1 minute and repeat.

Is curves really that bad? I know they use machines but not much else. Whilst free weight work is clearly superior, I would argue machine weights are superior to cardio.

I used to go to tony quinn, whilst I regret it in an overall sense, I did get decent enough results from machines alone.

Do curves have even leg press/chest press machines?

Stargazer7

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Is curves really that bad? I know they use machines but not much else. Whilst free weight work is clearly superior, I would argue machine weights are superior to cardio.

I used to go to tony quinn, whilst I regret it in an overall sense, I did get decent enough results from machines alone.

Do curves have even leg press/chest press machines?

Personally I think curves is good for cardio for people who work hard at it are at a beginner level of fitness....I found it a bit too easy myself so did my cardio training on the other machines i.e. treadmill, rowing machine etc. But the ad does say good for toning which I doubt is possible as the machines are set at such low settings.

Also, on the rice cakes issue....I'm eating it rather than eating bread or pasta....would I be better off eating a small portion of wholewheat pasta or brown rice? I know cutting out processed carbs altogether is the best but as a treat would the alternatives be better? I like rice cakes because it is easy to limit the calories on them - i.e. i know 3 cakes = ~90 cals.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Personally when it comes to getting in shape, I consider cardio to be a waste, or at best an inefficient use of time. Sure you burn a lot of cals for the 45minutes you're in the gym but with weight training you burn cals for the next 48-72 hours. At least you do high intensity, but honestly think you'd still see better results with weights.

Frogdog

I didn't say "no" gains or benefits, I said "any significant" gains or benefits.

Maybe I was a bit harsh on Curves, but i don't think so. They only care about their bottom line and your money. They use bodyweight resistance machines for their resistance workouts, which your body will adapt to after approx 2-3 weeks of training, again in my opinion.

You need to constantly challenge your body to adapt to see significant gains and benefits. Curves won't help you reach this goal. Free weights will.

Stargazer7

Thanks for the advice. And apologies for reading "no" rather than "any significant"

So is the consensus between you two that free weights is the way to go? Should I ditch the cardio then or keep it as part of the routine? I'm genuinely surprised as I would've always thought of cardio being used for fat burning and then weight used for toning.

And again, should I be eating over the typical 2000 cals a day to gain muscle and make it work for me or should I stick with reduced calorie intake?

El_Dangeroso

Frogdog wrote: »

Maybe I was a bit harsh on Curves, but i don't think so. They only care about their bottom line and your money. They use bodyweight resistance machines for their resistance workouts, which your body will adapt to after approx 2-3 weeks of training, again in my opinion.

I totally understand your skeptism towards an enterprise that make money in the health and fitness game, lord knows there are many many examples of less than scrupulous companies in this arena.

But I do think curves isn't a half bad approach for someone who is coming from a sedentary lifestyle. It's circuits of weights and cardio so like interval training which is well know to induce weight loss, especially belly fat.

I know a good few people who go there and have gotten excellent results. A few stopped and gained some weight, but I guess the moral is to keep going or find something else equally effective, which might be free weights for some people.

*Full disclosure* I have no interests whatsoever in the success of Curves.

Shiroki

In my experience cardio is useless. So far I've lost over 10kg all from lifting. Try not to focus on things like biceps. Lifts that make multiple muscle groups work will have a more significant effect on fat ( Things like squats and bench press ) I also found that getting hung up on calorie counting is silly, you want your muscles to grow which will help you to burn fat, stressing because you went 50 cals over your GDA isn't worth it. Imo patience is the most important factor of all of this. Just stick it out and try to enjoy it Btw this is just personal experience haha dont take it word for word

Stargazer7

Shiroki wrote: »

In my experience cardio is useless. So far I've lost over 10kg all from lifting. Try not to focus on things like biceps. Lifts that make multiple muscle groups work will have a more significant effect on fat ( Things like squats and bench press ) I also found that getting hung up on calorie counting is silly, you want your muscles to grow which will help you to burn fat, stressing because you went 50 cals over your GDA isn't worth it. Imo patience is the most important factor of all of this. Just stick it out and try to enjoy it Btw this is just personal experience haha dont take it word for word

Well i was on a good maintenance diet/fitness regime before this so I'm not so worried about that. I just want to drop about a stone in terms of weight and tone up. Or equivalently lose a few % of bodyfat. I'd prefer to get this drop in weight out of the way now and then continue on with a good fitness regime and relax a bit more with the calorie intake.

Silly question but for the compound weights would you need an experienced person working with you - I have used machines before and have adjusted to the kg of resistance that was hardest but still doable for ~10 reps. I have no experience with the bigger free weights.

average_runner

Take up running and you will lose weight. Start slow and build up and over time the weight will drop naturally and healthy. Myself was 92kg at Jan 1st and now 80kg. Only exercise I do is running and decent diet. Now i am training for a marathon.

1sttimerunner

Hi all, just looking for some advice. Stopped smoking in April and start running in may. Have already completed 6 races and running 10k in 55 minutes. I have also joined a running club once a week. I am hoping to do the Dublin marathon in October but need some advice on diet. Want to drop a stone in weight and need some pointers towards a good diet plan. Currently running 20 to 25k per week but eating like a horse and all the wrong foods. Thanks in advance

metamorphosis

Have you read the stickies here and in the main health and fitnerss forum?

Also, post up your day to day typical intake inc. everything that passes your lips.

There is no one plan that will suit you but by knowing what your eating now we can tell you what to stop doing, what to eat, not eat etc

nice_guy80

how can anyone say cardio will give less benefits for weight loss than lifting??

where is the proven evidence??

a combination of the two, with a strict healthy eating policy will shed the pounds like nothing else