New build - high meter readings

LoTwan

I had a new meter installed into a new build on April 21st. The first bill was estimated & when I input a reading I ended up with a bill of €300 for 75 days.

I bought an OWL monitor which arrived yesterday & I thought "great, I an keep a (reasonable) eye on what's going on". 22 hours later the OWL thinks I have used 18.5kwh, the meter says it is 51!!

Does anyone have any idea why there would be such a discrepancy between the OWL & the meter?

Bruthal

LoTwan wrote: »

I had a new meter installed into a new build on April 21st. The first bill was estimated & when I input a reading I ended up with a bill of €300 for 75 days.

I bought an OWL monitor which arrived yesterday & I thought "great, I an keep a (reasonable) eye on what's going on". 22 hours later the OWL thinks I have used 18.5kwh, the meter says it is 51!!

Does anyone have any idea why there would be such a discrepancy between the OWL & the meter?

Is it just a standard meter you have?

LoTwan

robbie7730 wrote: »

Is it just a standard meter you have?

It is a fancy looking digital thing that looks like it could be a day/night meter if I wanted it to be (0 = total reading, 1 = day, 2 = night <-- or the other way around) but I am on a 24 hour rate.

I should mention that I am horrified by using 51 units in 24 hours but that is a different matter.

Bruthal

Where have you fitted the monitoring CT (current transformer)?

Im not sure if the updating frequency is changeable on that monitor, they are not continous real-time monitors, but take a reading every so often, so the more frequent, the more accurate, especially if any items regularly go on and off throughout the day.

Set it in 230v mode also, although if it was 240 it was set in, the readings it took would be higher, rather than lower, but set to 230v anyway.

LoTwan

It is on the brown wire that is "leaving" the meter (not on the one that is coming in through the hockey stick).

It is set to 230 by default and you can't alter the update frequency.

When I spotted the meter reading earlier I took the monitor off for a little while and then refitted it. Since then the monitor is matching the meter reading.

I just RTFM & found this:

Readings appear low --> Sensor not closed properly --> Although the sensor clip maybe closed, if it is a tight fit then the core may not close properly. Check the diameter of your cable (up to 10mm cable for standard sensors and 17mm for latge sensor). --> Reposition the clip on a straight peice of cable.

So I appear to have inadvertently solved my problem. Now I have to move on to the fact that we used 50 units of electricity in 24 hours. Keeping that up for 2 months will get me a bill of more than €400 in the post in September.

New thread needed?

Gerard93

So I appear to have inadvertently solved my problem. Now I have to move on to the fact that we used 50 units of electricity in 24 hours. Keeping that up for 2 months will get me a bill of more than €400 in the post in September.

So I appear to have inadvertently solved my problem. Now I have to move on to the fact that we used 50 units of electricity in 24 hours. Keeping that up for 2 months will get me a bill of more than €400 in the post in September.

Hi LoTwan,
Thats seems very heavy usage, what size is the new build, obviviously your using no heating etc this time of year. Perhaps if you switch everything off at the Trip switch and switch back on bit by bit it might help identify whats using so much.
Where did you buy the OWL meter, I have a comm unit and have 3 phase and was wondering would one of these work on it.

Bruthal

LoTwan wrote: »

It is on the brown wire that is "leaving" the meter (not on the one that is coming in through the hockey stick).

It is set to 230 by default and you can't alter the update frequency.

When I spotted the meter reading earlier I took the monitor off for a little while and then refitted it. Since then the monitor is matching the meter reading.

I just RTFM & found this:

Readings appear low --> Sensor not closed properly --> Although the sensor clip maybe closed, if it is a tight fit then the core may not close properly. Check the diameter of your cable (up to 10mm cable for standard sensors and 17mm for latge sensor). --> Reposition the clip on a straight peice of cable.

So I appear to have inadvertently solved my problem. Now I have to move on to the fact that we used 50 units of electricity in 24 hours. Keeping that up for 2 months will get me a bill of more than €400 in the post in September.

New thread needed?

Yea i was going to suggest to make sure the clip is fully closed, so that should sort that.

That rate will have a bill over €500 in fact, keep an eye on it for the next few days and see what happens.

LoTwan

Gerard93 wrote: »

Hi LoTwan,
Thats seems very heavy usage, what size is the new build, obviviously your using no heating etc this time of year. Perhaps if you switch everything off at the Trip switch and switch back on bit by bit it might help identify whats using so much.
Where did you buy the OWL meter, I have a comm unit and have 3 phase and was wondering would one of these work on it.

I'll do the last first. I bought my OWL on Amazon (because of the free shipping). The documentation says it supports 3 phase but you need to buy extra sensors.

We have no heating on. Lights are only on in the evening with energy savers in most of them. Unfortunately the dryer is being used (due to the glorious weather) but the documentation from Miele claims 2.5kwh for the setting we use, based on the 1400 spin on the washing machine which Miele claim uses 0.85kwh. The dishwasher uses 1.2kwh (again from Miele documentation). We do c. 10 loads if washing & the dishwasher runs twice most days.

It is a new build, 1600sq ft. We have a new 1HP pump on the shallow well, a water softener that runs 3 times a week at present (the frequency needs to be turned up) & a waste treatment tank. The outside lights are on sensors. We have a modest 32" LCD TV. The hob is gas. Water is heated by the immersion & was on 2 hours a day (I turned it down today). We have a power shower.

There is no pump inside the house, no spot lights, no insinketator or under counter water heater, no HRV system running,

The OWL is consistently reading the immersion at 2 - 2.5kwh so I'm not overly concerned about that.

In the first 85 days here we used 1800 units (160 in the last 9) and then 50 in a day. I have no idea WTF is going on.

Bruthal

Gerard93 wrote: »

Hi LoTwan,
Thats seems very heavy usage, what size is the new build, obviviously your using no heating etc this time of year. Perhaps if you switch everything off at the Trip switch and switch back on bit by bit it might help identify whats using so much.
Where did you buy the OWL meter, I have a comm unit and have 3 phase and was wondering would one of these work on it.

They do work on 3 phase by getting 2 additional CTs for the owl. They just measure amps though, and assume 230v phase to neutral but dont measure it like a real KWh meter does, so what they really measure is the KVA hours of any installation rather than the KW hours.

Bruthal

LoTwan wrote: »

The OWL is consistently reading the immersion at 2 - 2.5kwh so I'm not overly concerned about that.

If its on bath, the reading should be 3. Maybe it will be now if the clip has been properly closed.

You could actually put the monitor clip around the earth wire that goes out to the meter fuse position for a few minutes, and make sure there is a zero reading on it, this will indicate there is no earth fault causing this high usage.

LoTwan

robbie7730 wrote: »

That rate will have a bill over €500 in fact, keep an eye on it for the next few days and see what happens.

I forgot about the standing charge. :mad:

Gerard93

Thanks Guys for the comments on the Owl I'll have a look at it.
LoTwan just to give you a rough example the comm. unit at the moment we're using 27 units a day on this which is mainly lightening and its about 3500 Sq.Feet.

Our own house is a 1600 Semi with all the usual family stuff, Washer, Dryer, Tv PC etc and we using €3 a day at the moment. The immersion is timed to come on twice for about 4 hours per day although I do have an external Thermostat fitted so the water is hot but not boiling. Washing machine useage once/twice a day dishwasher once a day.

Watch it carefully over next few days and keep us posted.

LoTwan

Gerard93 wrote: »

The immersion is timed to come on twice for about 4 hours per day although I do have an external Thermostat fitted so the water is hot but not boiling.

I have an external thermostat so I can change the temperature for both the sink and the bath element. I must check what they are set at but as I said based on the OWL the immersion is not bothering me.

What is bothering me is the thing I can't see... what used up 35ish units of electricity in 24 hours (of which I was in bed for 10.5 hours and away from home for 3.5 hours during the day).

Bruthal

LoTwan wrote: »

I have an external thermostat so I can change the temperature for both the sink and the bath element. I must check what they are set at but as I said based on the OWL the immersion is not bothering me.

What is bothering me is the thing I can't see... what used up 35ish units of electricity in 24 hours (of which I was in bed for 10.5 hours and away from home for 3.5 hours during the day).

Is the immersion lagged? Where are the stats fitted to the cylinder? Is the immersion possibly staying on most of the time? Even left on 24 hours it wont be on the entire time with the proper stats in the top of it. But if its not lagged or if water is used often, it would be on far more if its not switched off or timed off.

LoTwan

robbie7730 wrote: »

Is the immersion lagged? Where are the stats fitted to the cylinder? Is the immersion possibly staying on most of the time? Even left on 24 hours it wont be on the entire time with the proper stats in the top of it. But if its not lagged or if water is used often, it would be on far more if its not switched off or timed off.

It is lagged (factory fitted, 35 - 40mm). It is timed on for 90 minutes now but it was 2.5 hours. The stats are where the power is going in & I can change the temperature, right? If yes then they are about 300mm from the top & 100mm from the bottom (off the top of my head because I am in bed now and I'm not getting up to check)

Bruthal

What you need to do then is watch the owl monitor and see what its reading throughout the day. 51 units in 24 hours is 2kw average the entire time. Or 4kw for a 12 hour period etc, so if you see 4 or 5 kw up, switch off each MCB as suggested before to see what is taking the most load.

It can be surprising how a few items can add up. My average bill is 9 units a day though.

Gerard93

Any improvment LoTwan on useage over the weekend ??

slavetothegrind

check your well pump also and see if it is on all the time?

dryers are a curse, if you monitored that seperately you might get a shock! (glorious pun there:))

LoTwan

So 6pm Friday - 4pm Saturday was 50kwh (2.2727kwh/h)
4pm Saturday - 4.30pm Wednesday (today) is 82kwh (0.84kwh/h)

The pump is on demand (when you are outside you can hear it turning on and off as it is needed). I don't know which nights the softener runs but that will be a moot point later as it has to be turned up to 7 nights a week (the joys of having the HARDEST WATER IN THE WORLD!)

I am a little concerned by the fact that we use 5kwh overnight and I am not sure what on... but as the softener, pump & waste treatment tank run at night I am not going to get that down to nothing.

There was some energy consumption by the lights (upstairs and down) when the lights were all turned off and I have to follow that up with the electricians.

Unfortunately, for me at least) I am going to be running an electric fence off the mains shortly too, so I am going to have to look harder at what we are wasting electricity on.

On a final note I am off to hang out the washing as it is dry outside

LoTwan

In a dreaded double can anyone tell me if the fancy new digital meter is used as a 24 hour meter and the day & night one? ie if I wanted a day & night would they actually come and take out the digital one and put in a different one or would they just charge me the best part of €200 for ticking a few boxes on their system?

RoundyMooney

LoTwan wrote: »

In a dreaded double can anyone tell me if the fancy new digital meter is used as a 24 hour meter and the day & night one? ie if I wanted a day & night would they actually come and take out the digital one and put in a different one or would they just charge me the best part of €200 for ticking a few boxes on their system?

Yes, no and no.

LoTwan

RoundyMooney wrote: »

Yes, no and no.

Yes - it's the same meter?
No - they wouldn't come and change the meter?
No - they won't charge me to switch over?

jprboy

LoTwan wrote: »

Yes - it's the same meter?
No - they wouldn't come and change the meter?
No - they won't charge me to switch over?

Correct on all counts

LoTwan

I have done some calculations and without trying to run appliances at night (which would be easily done) I have used 20% of my power at night (the joys of having a brand new meter and being able to see the day & night reading). Using those calculations and the current standing and usage charges if I had been on the day & night pricing since the meter was installed the standing + usage costs would have been 50c cheaper than the 24 hour rate that I have been on.

As my softener is going to be running every night (still not sure of its actual consumption) and I am currently using about 5 (of about 22) units at night having the day & night tariff is a no brainer.

Thanks guys

LoTwan

They are switching it over FOC next week