Pro-Life at City Square

allthedoyles

This was the square yesterday - why did the Gardai give them 15 minutes to take down the canopy .

They are pro-life - sounds ok to me :

marlin vs

Because they shouldn't be there annoying people.

Trotter

I wouldnt want my little girl walking past and seeing those photos. If they were shown on TV before the watershed, there'd be consequences so I think the Gardaí were right. Its not a pro life / pro abortion stance.. Its purely from a point of view that having images like that put in front of unsuspecting children is wrong.

Flyin Irishman

Dont think it required that many guards to tell them to move on....

seanybiker

Pro life so it's all good in my opinion.
The pictures are a bit much for kids in fairness but they're not lying so its catch 22. Gets a point across but could upset kids.

Trotter

seanybiker wrote: »

they're not lying so its catch 22

You could make that point for an adult audience but theres no way children should be seeing that stuff.

Finnbar01

Flyin Irishman wrote: »

Dont think it required that many guards to tell them to move on....

Did the gardaí move them on?

Flyin Irishman

seanybiker wrote: »

The pictures are a bit much for kids in fairness but they're not lying so its catch 22. Gets a point across but could upset kids.

If it wasnt for all those damn kids around the place, the pro-lifers might be allowed to set up these stands and help the kids!! Now THATS a catch 22


@Finnbar: Says in the OP gardai gave them 15 minutes to take down the stand

seanybiker

That's what I said. It gets a point across but can also upset kids. Maybe not catch 22 but I can't think of a proper saying for it oops

allthedoyles

Flyin Irishman wrote: »

@Finnbar: Says in the OP gardai gave them 15 minutes to take down the stand

They were gone within 15 minutes of the Gardai arriving in three squad cars and a wagon .

dayshah

Those pictures are a bit much for people just going about their shopping. I think leaflets with the photos would be enough, that way they wouldn't have to give them to kids.

Red square is a public place, so they have a right to have a protest there. But I think a big canopy is taking over a bit too much space (that and the horrible coffee place).

A table and some placards should be enough.

dayshah

seanybiker wrote: »

That's what I said. It gets a point across but can also upset kids. Maybe not catch 22 but I can't think of a proper saying for it oops

And I would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for you pesky kids.

allthedoyles

It was actually organised by Youth Defence Waterford :

http://www.youthdefence.ie/who-we-are/what-they-say/

Finnbar01

Flyin Irishman wrote: »

If it wasnt for all those damn kids around the place, the pro-lifers might be allowed to set up these stands and help the kids!! Now THATS a catch 22


@Finnbar: Says in the OP gardai gave them 15 minutes to take down the stand

Ok, my bad. But do you know why the gards wantedt them to move on in the first place?

Typhoon.

The guards wouldn't be so quick to turn up at a halting site

FatB

I'm not taking a side here, but a lot of women/couples that have had abortions were not done without having to put a lot of thought into it - some for medical reasons etc.

It's also not fair on those that legitimately had an abortion to be ridiculed in public and for past memories to be dragged up time and time again. I'm sure it's pretty hard for anyone to make that decision.

As people have said before, perhaps leaflets would of been more appropriate.

Typhoon.

I can see this thread going south very quickly

dayshah

Typhoon. wrote: »

I can see this thread going south very quickly

Are you pro-thread? I think its a viable thread. It would be wrong to kill it off when it successfully reached its 2nd page and showed it was viable.

Typhoon.

Pro-thread? yeah.. i say keep it goin

I can see this thread going many pages

time to get the popcorn in

dayshah

Typhoon. wrote: »

Pro-thread? yeah.. i say keep it goin

I can see this thread going many pages

time to get the popcorn in

ooh, it'd be great it one of the protesters came on. It'd sort out my nights entertainment.

albert kidd

Typhoon. wrote: »

The guards wouldn't be so quick to turn up at a halting site

and thats the truth.

allthedoyles

Could anyone find out the official reason why they were told to move on etc

Noodleworm

I don't think its suitable to leave these pictures in front of kids, their deliberately misleading too as thy show gruesome pictures of late term abortions which are illegal pretty much everywhere.
Just once Id like to see the pro life groups supporting struggling women instead of scaring them.

seanybiker

Typhoon. wrote: »

The guards wouldn't be so quick to turn up at a halting site

Join up the next time they rake recruits and show em how its done sure. Lol

Na seriously though. How many times have the guards brought people from halting sites to court only for the judge to throw the case out? If I was a cop I wouldn't see the point in arresting them if nothing is going to happen to them. Its not the cops fault they are let off.


On topic. Some people see an abortion as just one of them things that needs to be done.
Was talking to one of the girls I know over in Canada a few months back and she was telling me she was pregnant. O congratulated her and she said. Oh no Sean I'm not keeping it. I don't want another child now so ill book in and get an abortion. She wasn't raped or anything, it was her husband who got her pregnant and she decided when just didn't want the child. In my opinion people like that need to be sterilized.

ziedth

seanybiker wrote: »

Join up the next time they rake recruits and show em how its done sure. Lol

Na seriously though. How many times have the guards brought people from halting sites to court only for the judge to throw the case out? If I was a cop I wouldn't see the point in arresting them if nothing is going to happen to them. Its not the cops fault they are let off.


On topic. Some people see an abortion as just one of them things that needs to be done.
Was talking to one of the girls I know over in Canada a few months back and she was telling me she was pregnant. O congratulated her and she said. Oh no Sean I'm not keeping it. I don't want another child now so ill book in and get an abortion. She wasn't raped or anything, it was her husband who got her pregnant and she decided when just didn't want the child. In my opinion people like that need to be sterilized.

It is such a divided subject isn't it? I mean it's not very often you see a argument where there is no middle ground. Personally I'm not against them but I don't think they should be used as a method of contraception either like I have a hard time grasping people just saying they don't want a child. Plenty of people out there would love to adopt.

With regards the protest, people have the right to protest whatever they want and I can't help but admire their conviction but a bit of common sense with the pictures wouldn't have gone astray. If I were to protest something not as provoking and had a load of disturbing posters I'd be rightly moved too.

seanybiker

Some of the protesting can be a bit in your face.

jayboi

Whats the issue?? those posters were completely unacceptable to have shown in the middle of the day end of discussion id give them 5 minutes to take them down before they were confiscated.
Considering you planning application to put a sandwich board outside your business i don't see how they could be allowed erect a stall willy nilly.

Christ can you imagine the tourists "I had a lovely stay in Waterford except for pictures of dead fetuses shoved in my face"

marlin vs

Typhoon. wrote: »

The guards wouldn't be so quick to turn up at a halting site

Typhoon. wrote: »

I can see this thread going south very quickly

You'r input is not much use,and well said jaiboi,and seany you'r right in what you said (Join up the next time they rake recruits and show em how its done .)

deisemum

The gardai shouldn't have even given them 15 mins to take down their stall.

What I find really disgusting about this shower is how they normally have balloons to hand out to children and use them to attract children over to their stall exposing them to such graphic images. Children find these images upsetting and that's not right. They clearly do not give a damn about children and their welfare.

decies

Down with this sort of thing have no time for this sort of thing, why is there so many blokes involved with these organisations ?

the_syco

seanybiker wrote: »

Pro life so it's all good in my opinion.
The pictures are a bit much for kids in fairness but they're not lying so its catch 22. Gets a point across but could upset kids.

So if I showed people the horrific evils of what the Nazi scientists did to people during WW2, it'd be okay as it was "factually true" and will "educate the kids of the evils of history"?

seanybiker

the_syco wrote: »

So if I showed people the horrific evils of what the Nazi scientists did to people during WW2, it'd be okay as it was "factually true" and will "educate the kids of the evils of history"?

Abortion can happen in future. History like that is hardly gonna happen again. Past and future tense are different things. Show them if you want though.

Flyin Irishman

seanybiker wrote: »

Abortion can happen in future. History like that is hardly gonna happen again. Past and future tense are different things. Show them if you want though.

LMAO!
Yeah! Kids these days have it too easy! If we're not careful hardly any of them will be permanently messed up....

spookwoman

If I had been in the area and seen that stand I would have been onto the police. Let people make their own choices on abortion and don't force beliefs on other people.

allthedoyles

allthedoyles wrote: »

Some of the images used are taken directly from 'google images' eg foetus picture in above photo .

Kids as young as five are now googling words to find information , and I have no doubt they can find this type of information too without been handed out leaflets .

seanybiker

spookwoman wrote: »

If I had been in the area and seen that stand I would have been onto the police. Let people make their own choices on abortion and don't force beliefs on other people.

Totally agree. I'm pro life but don't see the point of these protests or whatever you call them. I'm also atheist but can't stand the atheist forum on here. They bang on about no religion than people with religion bang on about being believers.

spookwoman

Just had a quick look at the atheist forum see what you mean. I could be termed at an atheist but I think Irreligion better describes me.

seanybiker

spookwoman wrote: »

Just had a quick look at the atheist forum see what you mean. I could be termed at an atheist but I think Irreligion better describes me.

Mad isn't it. Looking down on religious people.I would love to have faith. I don't so feck it.

Trotter

allthedoyles wrote: »

Kids as young as five are now googling words to find information , and I have no doubt they can find this type of information too without been handed out leaflets .

5 year olds that have unsupervised access to google is a whole other problem.

dayshah

spookwoman wrote: »

Just had a quick look at the atheist forum see what you mean. I could be termed at an atheist but I think Irreligion better describes me.

Maybe you are agnostic? Atheism is the belief that there is no god, but agnostics just say we can't really be sure either way.

I've no problem with atheists, but I do hate that Richard Dawkins fella. To me he's just like a fundamentalist preacher, but atheist.

angelfalling

seanybiker wrote: »

but they're not lying so its catch 22

But they are. Those images portray fetuses that have been aborted or miscarried well past the average abortion stage of 6-12 weeks gestation.

It's sick. As if women who have abortions are super proud of it. Do you really think women want to travel abroad to do a bit of shopping and get an abortion on the side? It's a hard decision and for these women a necessity in their lives.
If you really want to do something about women getting abortions, hand out condoms and birth control pills in school and have proper sex education from an early age. Teenagers have sex.

Plus, they can't just set up a canopy like that-- people in the market down the way pay to do that, ha!

dayshah

angelfalling wrote: »

But they are. Those images portray fetuses that have been aborted or miscarried well past the average abortion stage of 6-12 weeks gestation.

It's sick. As if women who have abortions are super proud of it. Do you really think women want to travel abroad to do a bit of shopping and get an abortion on the side? It's a hard decision and for these women a necessity in their lives.

Here is an accurate description of a fetus at 12 weeks. http://assets.babycenter.com/i/m/stages/popups/12/index.jpg
Its just a baby in womb picture so not disturbing, but people can get an idea at the stage of development at 12 weeks.
And for six weeks:
http://www.babycenter.com/fetal-development-images-6-weeks

This pro-choice UK website says 87% of abortions occur within 6-12 weeks. What about the other 13%? Shouldn't they be banned?

For me the idea that people who show pictures of abortions are sick, but the people who do the abortions aren't just doesn't stack up. There is no genuine freedom of choice unless that choice is informed. I'm fully in favour of pictures of tumours on cigarette packets.

I haven't made up my mind about abortion. But I'm definitely opposed to late term abortions (unless the mother's life is in physical danger). In the UK you can get an abortion up to 24 weeks, while the record for a baby surviving outside the womb is under 22 weeks. At the very least I think the UK should reduce the term to 12 weeks (unless the mothers life is at serious risk).

I think people should have the full information on these things. Abortion isn't black and white, it has 9 months of grey. Technically the morning after pill can be an abortion, but most people don't object to that. I don't many people inform themselves of abortion, and the facts should be made available. If people (excluding children) are disturbed by the photos, then perhaps its that abortion is disturbing? However I do think that youth defence is very propagandistic, and I don't trust them. I think they harm their own cause.

I don't think these photos should be in view of children or that they should have that canopy.

Gadgie

the_syco wrote: »

So if I showed people the horrific evils of what the Nazi scientists did to people during WW2, it'd be okay as it was "factually true" and will "educate the kids of the evils of history"?

I was wondering how long it would take for Godwin's law to be invoked...

Hells Belle

I walked past these on Friday afternoon, I was with my 4 yr old son who pointed out the pictures to me "why is that baby's head on a stick" was what he said. I hadn't noticed until I was right on top of them. I nearly got sick and I got a bit upset when I got home. I did think of going back in with some paint and covering their pictures but that would have gotten them more attention.

Fair enough they have a right to protest but I have a right not to have these inaccurate pictures shoved in my little one's face. I'm glad the gardai moved them.

She Devil

I reported them!
I don't want to see pictures of what my little angels whom I miscarried would look like when they left me! These pictures are more than offensive to me, they had me in absolute convulsions all night!
If this was put on tv late at night I'd have been given a warning about it and I'd have chosen not to watch it!
I think "for once" the guards did their job, and protected others from being as upset as me!

I'm 100% pro choice!
And one of the pro choice protesters in Waterford the other day is famous for being at all different kind of protests, must be very opinionated eh! :rolleyes::rolleyes:

:mad::mad::mad:

RxQueen

Yer right to report them

thats there views I dont think it should be forced upon people out shopping... I find those pictures offence, cant begin to wonder what kids thought of them.

Boooourns

I'm all for free speech whether i agree with it or not but the images were too much. It's pretty easy to get your point across by providing the information and not by using scare tactics.

Finnbar01

I'm pro life, however, I consider youth defence to be too extreme and I definately question their motives. I mean, the best thing to do when explaining your point of view is to be clam and considerate.
Arms failing all over the place, mouthing off and using graphic pictures will turn people off. I get the impression that a lot of people in youth defence are 'showing' off. Deliberately coming across as confrontational and wanting to be seen as some sort of activists.

MitchKoobski

Who gives a fuck if you're pro-life or not? I don't think thats the problem here.

No one needs to be forced to see pictures like that in the middle of town on a saturday afternoon. That was too extreme. If they wanted to make people aware they could have easily had a few people handing out flyers, not throwing up a stand with all the pictures in plain view. Read the flyer/leaflet, then look up the stuff for yourself like anyone would. They have a right to protest, but not to shove it in peoples faces with pictures like that.

chelloveks

deisemum wrote: »

The gardai shouldn't have even given them 15 mins to take down their stall.

What I find really disgusting about this shower is how they normally have balloons to hand out to children and use them to attract children over to their stall exposing them to such graphic images. Children find these images upsetting and that's not right. They clearly do not give a damn about children and their welfare.

The majority of them are religious fanatics and could care less about the welfare of the mother or child....just looking to save their souls!

rasper

The only people that should be allowed to dictate the choice to terminate an unwanted pregnancy are the people involved and their medical professionals, the church, state and the fundamentalists should stay out of it. Its time for Ireland to grow up and not just to ignore the problem because it is eventually sorted in the UK, society would be far facing the problem.
I do however support their right to protest, but not to intimidate.