RaboDirect Pro 12 League 2011/2012

theboss80

So as we wait for the season to kick off and the eagerly awaited fixtures announcement. I found this on online concerning Irish teams.

Leinster and Munster will clash at the RDS in the newly-named RaboDirect Pro12 the week before they open their Heineken Cup campaigns in November.

The clash of the Heineken Cup and Magners League champions is likely to see the return of the Irish players to their provinces after the World Cup.

Connacht, who will play in the Heineken Cup for the first time next season, face a daunting trip to play Ulster at Ravenhill the week before their debut as they try to bridge a 60-year gap since their last victory in Belfast.

A draft of the fixtures has been sent to the 12 clubs and while they are subject to change, Munster and Leinster will again face each other at Thomond Park the week before the Heineken Cup quarter-finals next April. As usual there will be successive Irish derby games over the Christmas period. Munster will host Connacht and Leinster will entertain Ulster, probably on Friday, December 23rd, while Leinster travel to the Sportsground and Munster head to Ravenhill for the new year’s weekend fixtures.

Champions Munster will open the defence of their title when they host Newport Gwent Dragons on the first weekend in September. Leinster will travel to Ospreys, Connacht head to Italy to face Benetton Treviso and Ulster will have home advantage against Glasgow Warriors.

The only Irish derby scheduled to take place during the World Cup will see Leinster take on Connacht at the RDS on the weekend starting October 7th.

thomond2006

Ugh Leinster vs Munster in October again...would they ever bloody change it around?

durkadurka

The fixture list is the bloody same every year

CatFromHue

the organisers like to have home derby matches at christmass and new new year as these games are well attended. i'm guessing but the scottish derby and some of the welsh derby's at this time would the highest attendances for those clubs.

i've no problem with leinster and musnter playing each other in april and oct but i would like the home matches switched around a bit i.e. id like to play munster in the rds/aviva in april this year.

wixfjord

Personally think it's a great idea to have the derby games just before the HEC start and QF.
Great lead in, which is needed.

circos

wixfjord wrote: »

Personally think it's a great idea to have the derby games just before the HEC start and QF.
Great lead in, which is needed.

I agree, we needed that game last season to kick us (leinster) into shape and it did just that!

irishbucsfan

I think the point is that it was in Dublin last October and the year before, and in Limerick in April both those years (maybe March, i dunno).

Maybe they should change it around for once.

thomond2006

Transfers 2011/12

Rabo Direct PRO12

Aironi
IN: Tommaso D'Apice (Roma), Frans Viljoen (Cheetahs), Filippo Ferrarini (Crociati), Tyson Keats (Hurricanes), Luciano Orquera (Brive), Naas Olivier (Cheetahs), Ruggero Trevisan (Crociati), Andrea Masi (Racing-Métro)

OUT: Vickus Liebenberg (Aix-en-Provence), Jaco Erasmus (Calvisano), Gareth Krause (retired), Pablo Canavosio (Calvisano), Riccardo Bocchino (Cavalieri Prato), Danwel Demas (Boland), Giulio Rubini (Crociati), Julien Laharrague (Lourdes), Luigi Ferraro, Ulyses Gamboa, Mickey Wilson, James Marshall, Horacio San Martín

Cardiff Blues
IN:

OUT: Tom Davies (Doncaster), Ben White (Exeter), Tom Brown (Dragons), Tom Slater (Bristol), James Loxton (Connacht), Bryn Griffiths

Connacht
IN: Ethienne Reynecke (Stormers), Stewart Maguire (Leinster), Eoghan Grace (Exeter), TJ Anderson (Ulster), George Naoupu (Kobelco Steelers), Dave Moore (Harlequins), Paul O'Donohoe (Leinster), Matthew Jarvis (Ospreys), Niall O'Connor (Ulster), Henry Fa'afili (Leeds), James Loxton (Cardiff Blues), Fetu'u Vainikolo (Highlanders), Mark McCrea (Ulster)

OUT: Seán Cronin (Leinster), Jamie Hagan (Leinster), Bernie Upton (Toshiba Brave Lupus), Mike McComish (Ulster), Cillian Willis (retired), Ian Keatley (Munster), Troy Nathan (Glasgow), Fionn Carr (Leinster), Shane Monahan (Rotherham), Rob Sweeney, Niva Ta'auso, Aidan Wynne, Liam Bibo, Darragh Fannning

Dragons
IN: Nathan Williams (Moseley), Darren Waters (Pontypridd), Tom Brown (Cardiff Blues), Joe Bedford (Rotherham), Anitele'a Tuilagi (Sale), Jamie Smith (Ulster)

OUT: Duane Goodfield (retired), Pat Palmer (Pontypridd), Adam Brown (London Welsh), Joe Bearman (Ospreys), Nicky Griffiths (Jersey), Tom Cooper (Cornish Pirates), Rhodri Gomer-Davies (Scarlets), Nathan Brew (Neath), Jamie Davies (Neath), Ali McKenzie, Craig Attwell, Arthur Ellis, Rhydian Wilson, James Thomas, Matthew Watkins, Matt Evans

Edinburgh
IN: Stevie Lawrie (Doncaster), Sean Cox (Sale), Alex Black (Leeds), Chris Leck (Sale)

OUT: David Young (Leeds), Scott MacLeod (Kobelco Steelers), Fraser McKenzie (Sale), Craig Hamilton (Tarbes), Scott Newlands (Oyonnax), Ross Samson (London Irish), David Blair (retired), Fraser Brown, Alex Blair, Mark Robertson

Glasgow
IN: Michael Cusack (Doncaster), Rory Pitman (Ospreys), Troy Nathan (Connacht), Tommy Seymour (Ulster)

OUT: Kevin Tkachuk (retired), Aly Muldowney (Exeter), Richie Vernon (Sale), Max Evans (Castres), Mark Bennett (Clermont), Hefin O'Hare (retired), Bernardo Stortoni (retired), James Eddie

Leinster
IN: Seán Cronin (Connacht), Jamie Hagan (Connacht), Damien Browne (Brive), Steven Sykes (Sharks), Matt Berquist (Crusaders), Fionn Carr (Connacht)

OUT: Stewart Maguire (Connacht), Stan Wright (Stade Français), Nathan Hines (Clermont), Stephen Keogh (Shannon player/coach), Paul O'Donohoe (Connacht), Michael Keating (Doncaster), Niall Morris (Leicester), Shaun Berne

Munster
IN: BJ Botha (Ulster), Ian Keatley (Connacht)

OUT: Tony Buckley (Sale), John Hayes (retired) Alan Quinlan (retired), Paul Warwick (Stade Français), Sam Tuitupou (Sale), Pa O'Regan, Dave Ryan, Kieran Essex, Paul Rowley

Ospreys
IN: Ken Dowding (Bridgend), Marc Breeze (London Welsh), Aaron Jarvis (Bath), Joe Bearman (Dragons), George Stowers (London Irish), Kahn Fotuali'i (Crusaders), Pete Smith (Northern Suburbs)

OUT: Mefin Davies (retired), Craig Mitchell (Exeter), Andy Lloyd (retired), Marty Holah (Waikato), Jerry Collins (Yamaha Júbilo), Rory Pitman (Glasgow), Mike Phillips (Bayonne), Jamie Nutbrown (Bay of Plenty), Matthew Jarvis (Connacht), Jonathan Spratt (London Irish), James Hook (Perpignan), Lee Byrne (Clermont)

Scarlets
IN: Rhys Jones, Sione Timani (Carmarthen Quins), Rhodri Gomer-Davies (Dragons), Aled Thomas (London Welsh)

OUT: Rhys Lawrence (Bristol), Jonny Fa'amatuainu (Japan), David Lyons (Stade Français), Martin Roberts (Northampton), Steve Shingler (London Irish), Regan King (Clermont), Darren Daniel (Cornish Pirates), Joe Ajuwa

Treviso
IN: Alberto di Bernardo (Bourgoin)

OUT: Salvatore Costanzo (Calvisano), Joe Maddock (Saracens)

Ulster
IN: Callum Black (Worcester), John Afoa (Blues), Lewis Stevenson (Harlequins), Mike McComish (Connacht), Jared Payne (Blues)

OUT: BJ Botha (Munster), Ryan Caldwell (Bath), Scott LaValla (Stade Français), TJ Anderson (Connacht), Niall O'Connor (Connacht), Mark McCrea (Connacht), Tommy Seymour (Glasgow), Jamie Smith (Dragons), Bryan Young

http://www.therugbyforum.com/forum/showthread.php?21565-Transfers-2010-11

I can see Scarlets becoming the top Welsh side next year, Regan King is a loss but if they keep trying to play rugby they can become a tricky side to beat. Ospreys are going downhill and Cardiff aren't too far behind. If they keep playing Parks at 10 they are doomed. They have some decent backs but they are getting **** all ball with Parks inside them.

The Scottish sides were kak last year and I doubt that's going to change.

I expect the Italian sides to improve this year. Treviso were solid last season and thankfully have kept their players. Aironi are letting go a few of their journeymen (bar Krause who is retiring and did well for them) and made some good signings. The recruitment of Masi is a serious statement of intent. Nick Williams played more minutes than any other Aironi player last season, funny eh?

I reckon Connacht can make a good start to the league next year. Unlike most of the other teams their squad won't be crippled by World Cup selection.

wixfjord

Janey Scarlets are losing Lyons, King and Roberts. Three big losses.

Having said that, the other Welsh sides are either stagnating, or severely hemorrhaging players a la Ospreys.

Looking at that, the Italian sides could come good this year, because it's a very weak league on paper.

Ulster, Leinster and Munster should walk this, and I think Ulster might go close to top of regular season, as they won't lose a lot of internationals, and have recruited well.

Personally, and I hope I'm wrong, but I think this could be a disaster of a season for Connacht, bar a surprise in Europe perhpas.

They've suffered huge losses of established players, and recruited with youngsters, and dodgy looking imports, in the one season where they'll really need a solid squad and good performances.

Also, just looking at that, Glasgow could be in dire straights with their recruitment. Good to see for our HEC group.

durkadurka

I think Leinster and munster will dominate without breaking a sweat.

sock puppet

Munster could struggle at the beginning of the season. Their tight five especially will be hit hard by the world cup and players leaving. Leinster should have the depth to do well barring injury. We'll be a bit light on centres if McFadden goes but other than that we look strong.

thomond2006

durkadurka wrote: »

I think Leinster and munster will dominate without breaking a sweat.

I think so too, along with Ulster.

Prediction:

Top 3: Munster, Leinster, Ulster

4. Scarlets
5. Cardiff
6. Ospreys
7. Treviso
8. Connacht
9. Dragons
10. Aironi
11. Edinburgh
12. Glasgow

theboss80

Have Cardiff really not recruited anybody?

thomond2006

theboss80 wrote: »

Have Cardiff really not recruited anybody?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/welsh/13524567.stm

The Beeb has nobody coming in either.

Quint2010

thomond2006 wrote: »

I think so too, along with Ulster.

Prediction:

Top 3: Munster, Leinster, Ulster

4. Scarlets
5. Cardiff
6. Ospreys
7. Treviso
8. Connacht
9. Dragons
10. Aironi
11. Edinburgh
12. Glasgow

I think Scmidt will go all out to win the regular league this year. They only reason they didnt win it this year was due to a poor start and therefore having to travel to Thomond the week after winning the HC. If that match was in the RDS or Aviva Leinster would have won. Expect a strong start from Leinster this season.

tolosenc

The last thing this league needs is to become either a 2 horse race, or have Leinster and Munster fielding B teams and still making the playoffs most of the time.

durkadurka

That's whats gonna happen. This year Leinster fielded a full team three times in the regular season from my memory- against munster twice and ospreys in January.

Checked through the records there and there were two or three other games where maybe 12 of the HEC team played. There's a few variables here - boss and vdm are arguably first teamers.

thomond2006

What's worry is the Irish provinces (particularly Munster and Leinster because they regularly dominate the national team) can rest players and still finish top of the league by a distance.

The likes of Cardiff who couldn't give a **** about the ML and the Scottish sides who are plain useless seriously devalue the league.

I wonder how well Munster & Leinster would do in the Top14.

durkadurka

How often did munster field their best team - or say 13 of their best team?

thomond2006

durkadurka wrote: »

How often did munster field their best team - or say 13 of their best team?

http://www.munsterrugby.ie/rugby/7976.php
away vs glasgow: Earls and POC were injured at the time. du Preez the only 1st teamer left out.

http://www.munsterrugby.ie/rugby/8362.php
home vs cardiff: POC made his comeback, Wallace came off the bench on 48minutes, Warwick at 63. Coughlan left out.

http://www.munsterrugby.ie/rugby/8496.php
home vs glasgow: I think Buckley was injured at the time. Howlett rested. POC was banned.

http://www.munsterrugby.ie/rugby/8847.php
away vs cardiff: DOC rested.

Add to that the 2 Munster Leinster derbies, that's 6 games with a full/close to full strength team.

durkadurka

Six games out of 22(and they won 19).
And the other teams are going backwards.

Judgement Day

Can we not go back to calling it the "Celtic League" or perhaps, 'Munster's League".

irishbucsfan

When/why did David Blair retire?

thomond2006

irishbucsfan wrote: »

When/why did David Blair retire?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/13008425.stm

thomond2006

Cardiff make their first signing, Ryan Hartford from Pontypridd!

Bualadh bos for Cardiff everyone! :pac:

CatFromHue

i think they're stony broke.

they had to let some big names go last season

smurphy29

I think Llanelli and Ulster are the only teams that can rise from the rubble to break the Leinster-Munster hegemony. Both are at a similar stage of development with young teams who are showing signs of coming together.

roycon

ospreys still have a world class team on paper if they can even get a small bit of cohesion , team work, pride, structure. they also have no real weaknesses in their team a good balance of players with a mentally imbalanced coach

sock puppet

Yeah the Ospreys still have a strong squad. Most of the players leaving are past their best. One issue is they don't seem to have many players coming through.

thomond2006

roycon wrote: »

ospreys still have a world class team on paper if they can even get a small bit of cohesion , team work, pride, structure. they also have no real weaknesses in their team a good balance of players with a mentally imbalanced coach

Ospreys
IN: Ken Dowding (Bridgend), Marc Breeze (London Welsh), Aaron Jarvis (Bath), Joe Bearman (Dragons), George Stowers (London Irish), Kahn Fotuali'i (Crusaders), Pete Smith (Northern Suburbs)

OUT: Mefin Davies (retired), Craig Mitchell (Exeter), Andy Lloyd (retired), Marty Holah (Waikato), Jerry Collins (Yamaha Júbilo), Rory Pitman (Glasgow), Mike Phillips (Bayonne), Jamie Nutbrown (Bay of Plenty), Matthew Jarvis (Connacht), Jonathan Spratt (London Irish), James Hook (Perpignan), Lee Byrne (Clermont)

As it stands this would be their team for next season:

James, Bennett, A Jones, Gough, AW Jones, Thomas, Tipuric, Jones;
Fotuali'i, Biggar, Walker, Bishop, Bowe, Williams, Fussell

No quality brought in bar Fotuali'i. Perhaps the galacticos leaving may help to change the culture at the Ospreys. On paper it's not a team that would strike a lot of fear. Thomas, Ryan Jones and Biggar are all overrated.

jolley123

sock puppet wrote: »

Yeah the Ospreys still have a strong squad. Most of the players leaving are past their best. One issue is they don't seem to have many players coming through.

Really? I would have thought the opposite was true. They seem to do quite well for themselves when the 6 nations takes away their internationals. Dan Biggar is still quite young, and they also have Gareth Owen, Tom Prydie,Ashley Beck and Justin Tipuric.

I've always thought that their problem was to do with the identity of the club. It's a club made up of two regions that aren't exactly best buds, and as a result, I think their support suffers.

They definitely still have a strong squad though. Bearman is a quality signing, and I'd actually prefer Fotuali'i over Phillips at the moment.

1. James
2. Hibbard
3. Jones
4. Wyn Jones
5. Jones/Gough
6. Bearman
7. Thomas/Tipuric
8. Stowers
9. Fotuali'i
10. Biggar
11. Williams
12. Bishop/Parker
13. Bowe/Bishop
14. Walker/Bowe
15. Fussell

Not a bad team at all.

thomond2006

Gareth Owen is out for the season jolley, did his knee ligaments.

jolley123

thomond2006 wrote: »

Gareth Owen is out for the season jolley, did his knee ligaments.

Oh really?? That's a loss. He's not a starter, but he's a good player for the international period.

Stowers and Bearman are guaranteed starters for next season in my books.

profitius

Aironi and Treviso will be stronger. Especially Aironi. They had a tough season but will have learnt alot about their squad. They've already made plenty of signings.

Ospreys are rebuilding. They're getting rid of alot of big name players and signing decent players. They'll be tough enough to beat still and might even play better as a team consistantly.

Llanelli are a well run club. They're also only a season or two away from clearing their debts. After that they're going to start pumping money into the team so the future looks good for them.

Dragons are the Connacht of Wales. They're doing well with the resources they have and are improving the stadium too. Mid table would be another good season for them.

Cardiff are broke. They gambled and lost so expect to see them slipping down the league.

Glasgow and Edinburgh will be down around the bottom again. I think Aironi could finish above at least one of those. They're selling lots of players and unless they have a good supply of young players coming through they're in for a tough time. The good news is theres been changes at the top of the Scottish game and that should help them in the future.

Connacht are an unknown quantity. I think they'll do a little better than last season. The squad should be stronger overall so they should be more consistant and not have those mid season dips they usually have. I reckon Connacht will continue to improve in the coming seasons. With no world cup next season there'll be more fringe players in Munster and Leinster available.

Ulster look like they'll be better still next season. Their small squad is their main concern. I think they'll start well but will have bad periods when they get injuries. But overall things look good.

Leinster will be better still next season. Carr is a try scoring machine, Cronin allows them to rotate the hookers more, Hagan will fill in for Ross, Sykes looks decent although Hines will be a loss. Berquist will be a good backup player along with the talented McKinley and Madigan. They should be better than last season.

Munster lost only 3 games last season which was amazing considering how they played. The positive thing from a playing point of view was the team who finished the season was alot stronger than the one that started it. Murray, Jones, Sherry, Donnacha Ryan and Barnes all started pushing for first team starts. Its been a long time since so many players have done that. Nagle, Zebo and a few others showed they have potential too. It'll be between Munster and Leinster again.

sock puppet

jolley123 wrote: »

Really? I would have thought the opposite was true. They seem to do quite well for themselves when the 6 nations takes away their internationals. Dan Biggar is still quite young, and they also have Gareth Owen, Tom Prydie,Ashley Beck and Justin Tipuric.

Tipuric was quality last season. But I dunno. Other than him and Biggar they haven't really challenged the incumbents much. Though I forgot about Mitchell too. Would have liked to see him go to another region instead of England.

Morf

profitius wrote: »

Munster lost only 3 games last season which was amazing considering how they played. The positive thing from a playing point of view was the team who finished the season was alot stronger than the one that started it. Murray, Jones, Sherry, Donnacha Ryan and Barnes all started pushing for first team starts. Its been a long time since so many players have done that. Nagle, Zebo and a few others showed they have potential too. It'll be between Munster and Leinster again.

Donnacha Ryan pushing for a first-team place isn't what i'd call a positive for Munster. A guy who is an average enough lock and is an even worse 6.

I would hope Munster would regard him as a stop-gap player until better quality comes through.

Ulster dark outsiders, considering how tough their HEC group is, if things don't start strong for them, the Pro12 (sic) could be their Mecca.

Stev_o

See bar serious injuries to key players the likely hood of that playoff spots will go to Leinster Munster and Ulster.

Who has the squad to take that 4th position? Obviously common sense points to the Opsreys since they always finish high in the table. But with a lot of players moving and probably a big emphasis on getting further in the HC we may see them slip. With the way the league runs through the 6N it's very unlikely that we'll see either Scottish team make up for the loss of players.

Like Profitius said Scarlets are a serious prospect. They'v gained a lot of experience in the last 2 years but I think a few factors will stunt any progression and the main one will be the loss of Regan King. Without him they'v no outstanding operator at 13 to expose any tough work that baby tank Davis does.

Still can't see anything then Irish dominance this year.

LeeroyJones

Deleted User wrote: »

Ulster dark outsiders, considering how tough their HEC group is, if things don't start strong for them, the Pro12 (sic) could be their Mecca.

I agree.
They tick all the boxes in so far as they have a decent scrum, decent lineout, good at the breakdown & quality goalkickers. Also, adding to that, they more than likely will have Humphreys during the World Cup and the fact that they have Gilroy, Spence, Marshall & Jackson a year older and more experienced as well as adding Jared Payne should mean a formidable backline.

roycon

rhys webb will be starting scrum half for ospreys ahead of kahn fatuali

thomond2006

roycon wrote: »

rhys webb will be starting scrum half for ospreys ahead of kahn fatuali

I think Webb had shoulder surgery during the summer so he's out for a while. Issacs will start during RWC.

Fotuali'i is a class act, I can't see him benching for Webb.

LightningBolt

I'm backing Ulster to win the league. They're 10/1 at the moment. I can't see them progressing from their group to be honest, I think they'll target the league aggressively. Some decent signings will see them compete for the title in April/May when I expect the likes of Leinster/Munster to still be involved in the Heineken/Amlin.

jolley123

What on earth is taking RaboDirect so long to finish the website??? When Aviva took over the sponsorship of the Premiership, the website changes were done almost immediately.

thomond2006

jolley123 wrote: »

What on earth is taking RaboDirect so long to finish the website??? When Aviva took over the sponsorship of the Premiership, the website changes were done almost immediately.

It's more to do with Celtic Rugby's incompetence I'd say.

CatFromHue

in fairness the magners league website was by far the best league website around.

twinytwo

Quint2010 wrote: »

I think Scmidt will go all out to win the regular league this year. They only reason they didnt win it this year was due to a poor start and therefore having to travel to Thomond the week after winning the HC. If that match was in the RDS or Aviva Leinster would have won. Expect a strong start from Leinster this season.

you base that on what?

ambid

thomond2006 wrote: »

...On paper it's not a team that would strike a lot of fear. Thomas, Ryan Jones and Biggar are all overrated.

Why do you think Biggar is overrated Thomond? He's achieved quite a lot for a young fella. What parts of his game do you think are lacking?

Really feel that Biggar has it all. He still has years left to peak. Doesn't need to be a top 10 yet, hurt by the fact that he has no senior player to learn from at Ospreys. Get him alongside Stephen Jones for a season and he could turn into a superstar.

He's still just a kid, only one year older than Rhys Ruddock and 3 years younger than Earls.

He may be an overrated player right this second, but in terms of prospect, he has an awful lot.

thomond2006

ambid wrote: »

Why do you think Biggar is overrated Thomond? He's achieved quite a lot for a young fella. What parts of his game do you think are lacking?

I don't think he's international class yet. He's been pretty poor this year since his shocker against Fiji in the autumn, he seems a bit low in confidence. He was dropped from the Wales squad for Priestland who is second choice 10 at Scarlets.

He's a good kicker and defender but I don't think he can run a game IMHO. The Ospreys backline looked pretty stagnant with him at 10. Ospreys should have played Hook at 10, now he's gone to France.

It has to be said that Biggar was having to play with an out of form Phillips at scrumhalf, that can't have helped at all.

He is still young but you can't call him inexperienced. I wonder how his development will go now, given he won't be playing alongside a playmaking 12. I probably should have said in my previous post that I feel he's overrated now (as emmet says)

Hiraeth

Biggar still has plenty of time to develop and he's not done too bad so far with his regional and international appearances.

After all at an equivalent age Jonny Sexton had made a grand total of just two appearances from the bench for Leinster.

theboss80

Munster to play Dragons in first game at Musgrave park

Leinster to play away to Ospreys

Connacht away to Treviso

Ulster at home to Warriors

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